Homelessness on the rise

Mrs OBumble

Claw Hammer wrote: »

the State does not provide accommodation for single people. No local authority will register a single 18 year old for housing. No accommodation will be allocated to such a person. The local authorities do not provide housing support to single people under the age of 23.

The state does provide accommodation for single people. Especially when they are over 55.

But it does in other cases, too. 18 year olds with significant disabilities, orphaned and in a low paying job, have kid(s), various other issues .... MAY be assessed as having a housing need.

Most people up to age 23 won't be accepted onto the list.

pwurple

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

We live in a very two tier country; it's hard to notice it when you are in the upper tier looking straight ahead.

Who is excluded from education and healthcare?

The class divide folk mention is essentially the obvious dude between most of society (largely working folk) and who are gaming the system...they have their forever home handed to them, scramblers for the kids etc

Having had the misfortune to accompany family members to A & E 6 times in the past 2 years, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen traveller families queuing to be seen.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Having had the misfortune to accompany family members to A & E 6 times in the past 2 years, I can honestly say that I’ve never seen traveller families queuing to be seen.

Nor have I.

Graces7

Missed that first reading. Many cultures around the world do this to support the patient. Nothing amiss

Slydice

The June figures have been released:
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_june_2018.pdf

Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report does not have commentary where previous reports did. They used to include:

The long term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes

or:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Coverage of this report:
https://www.fm104.ie/news/new-homeless-figures-slammed-as-scandalous/
https://www.fm104.ie/news/new-homeless-figures-slammed-as-scandalous/

A record number of 9,872 people are now homeless.

The latest stats show 26 more people were in emergency accommodation in June compared to May.

HOMELESS HIKE Nearly 10,000 people homeless in Ireland in 24 per cent increase since June 2017, latest figures reveal
https://www.thesun.ie/news/2893282/homeless-figures-ireland-june-increase/

Anthony Flynn, from Inner City Helping Homeless, believes the true figure is thousands higher.

He said: “The Minister has continuously recategorised people. He has stated that that hasn’t happened this month.

“We’ve up to 1,000 people in the last four months that have been recategorised out of homelessness.

“The minister’s office are not independently verifying figures. If anything they’re taking people out of section 10 funding over the last couple of months.

Tweets:
https://twitter.com/FocusIreland/status/1021760811008712705
https://twitter.com/SimonCommunity/status/1021763798749851653
https://twitter.com/ICHHDUBLIN/status/1021754402695274497
https://twitter.com/Barnardos_IRL/status/1021783705180954624

Other recent media on homelessness and supply shortage in Ireland:
Homeless schoolchildren 'hungry, tired and ashamed' - study
https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2018/0703/976001-homeless-children-report/

Teachers and school principals said that regardless of supports, pupils living in hotel accommodation for a long time experienced a decline in their mental health and well-being.

House prices continue to rise with an increase of 12.4% in twelve months
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/house-prices-continue-to-rise-with-an-increase-of-124-in-twelve-months-856602.html


NTMA: Rental property bubble ‘unsustainable’
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ntma-rental-property-bubble-unsustainable-472769.html

National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) chief executive Conor O’Kelly admitted the situation and said there is a clear “market failure”, under questioning from politicians over his group’s alleged role in fuelling the rental crisis.

At yesterday’s final Dáil Public Accounts Committee (PAC) meeting until September, Mr O’Kelly was asked by unaligned Independent TD Catherine Connolly to explain what attempts the NTMA was making to address the surging rental sector.

Asked if he believes the current cost of houses and apartments available for rent is “unsustainable” and is making it almost impossible for people on the industrial wage and for others earning up to €50,000 a year to find homes, he said: “Yes, I would agree with that.”

So, the homeless figures don’t include the genuine homeless?

emo72

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, the homeless figures don’t include the genuine homeless?

Looks like that. Either way it's severely depressing. I actually think this is only going to get worse, and never improve under the current regime.

Wanderer78

emo72 wrote:

Looks like that. Either way it's severely depressing. I actually think this is only going to get worse, and never improve under the current regime.

There's more or less no solution to this problem now, and it probably won't change with a change in government

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's more or less no solution to this problem now, and it probably won't change with a change in government

It won't change with a change in government. Both main parties - whether they like to admit it or not - are already governing the country.


There is a solution, which is to remove all the artificial price controls and restrictions in the private rental market.


Of course you will tell me there's no such thing as the free market or capitalism or whatever, but maybe that'#s why you see there being no solution.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote:

There is a solution, which is to remove all the artificial price controls and restrictions in the private rental market.

Plenty of research done on the failures of 'the market' in providing the actual needs of society.

ELM327 wrote:

Of course you will tell me there's no such thing as the free market or capitalism or whatever, but maybe that'#s why you see there being no solution.

My comments on the idea of 'no such thing as a free market', would be reference to the work of Economists such as ha-joon chang, Kate raworth etc etc, all markets have some sort of controls and regulations, as these are in fact needed to have a functioning market, which in turn allow for the failures of the market, or what Joe stigliz would call, 'the inefficiencies of the market'. of course capitalism exists, it's one of the most incredible things mankind has created, truly liberating and advancing our species

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Plenty of research done on the failures of 'the market' in providing the actual needs of society.



My comments on the idea of 'no such thing as a free market', would be reference to the work of Economists such as ha-joon chang, Kate raworth etc etc, all markets have some sort of controls and regulations, as these are in fact needed to have a functioning market, which in turn allow for the failures of the market, or what Joe stigliz would call, 'the inefficiencies of the market'. of course capitalism exists, it's one of the most incredible things mankind has created, truly liberating and advancing our species

It's very very difficult not to read your posts being voiced by Otto from the simpsons.


Regardless of all the tinfoil in the post above, you've left out the important part where you propose a solution different to what I stated.

emo72

emo72 wrote: »

Looks like that. Either way it's severely depressing. I actually think this is only going to get worse, and never improve under the current regime.

Homelessness is an industry. How many homeless charities are there? How many millions spent keeping them up and running? The money would be better spent building new houses or renovating existing ones. How many “homeless “ are turning down perfectly good homes because it’s not near mammy, doesn’t have a garden, not enough bedrooms, not big enough, so on, so forth, etc....

Hitman3000

Deleted User wrote:

How many “homeless “ are turning down perfectly good homes because it’s not near mammy, doesn’t have a garden, not enough bedrooms, not big enough, so on, so forth, etc....

Do you or are you seeking to deflect?

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Homelessness is an industry. How many homeless charities are there? How many millions spent keeping them up and running? The money would be better spent building new houses or renovating existing ones. How many “homeless “ are turning down perfectly good homes because it’s not near mammy, doesn’t have a garden, not enough bedrooms, not big enough, so on, so forth, etc....

It's a hundreds of millions industry now ,I see direct provision for asylum seekers are now being mentioned by some charities , that alone is a around costing 250 million in housing costs ,
Who wants to stop several hundred million a year industry

Wheeliebin30

Gatling wrote: »

It's a hundreds of millions industry now ,I see direct provision for asylum seekers are now being mentioned by some charities , that alone is a around costing 250 million in housing costs ,
Who wants to stop a near billion a year industry

CEOs of these charities on 100k a year.


Then solving the issue is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

It’s turned into a quango.

hmmm

The Journal are reporting that Irish charities have an income of 14.5 billion and employ 189,000 people.
https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-charities-4145144-Jul2018/

That's completely mental. I don't trust any statistics out of the charity industry (and it is an industry, which spends a fortune on marketing).

Hitman3000

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Do you or are you seeking to deflect?

Just stating facts.

emo72

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just stating facts.

Here's a fact. If people could afford to buy or rent their own homes, there would be no need for these quangos.

Hitman3000

Deleted User wrote:

Just stating facts.

Facts? So can you provide some links to those facts and claims you have made.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

It's very very difficult not to read your posts being voiced by Otto from the simpsons.


Regardless of all the tinfoil in the post above, you've left out the important part where you propose a solution different to what I stated.

thanks!

its also important to add, those ive mentioned above are in fact respected economic commentators and academics, stiglitz obviously being a noble laureate, you of course have the right to call them and their ideas as conspiratorial, or as you say, 'tinfoil', but deriding my opinions as that, is simply, ignorance. once again, there is sufficient evidence to support, 'the market' actually isnt truly capable of providing us with all our needs, and to rob a phrase from english economist ann pettifor, when your economic system removes itself from 'regulatory democracy', you no longer have a system that its truly capable of providing society with these needs in a democratic way.

effectively theres very few if any solutions under this thinking, as we largely have not accepted these fundamental failings, again, leading me to believe, we may have to experience a couple of more serious economic crashes before we start to largely accept these failings. there are some interesting ideas out there though that would probably help, but it would be best if we democratically decided whether to engage in these ideas

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thanks!

its also important to add, those ive mentioned above are in fact respected economic commentators and academics, stiglitz obviously being a noble laureate, you of course have the right to call them and their ideas as conspiratorial, or as you say, 'tinfoil', but deriding my opinions as that, is simply, ignorance. once again, there is sufficient evidence to support, 'the market' actually isnt truly capable of providing us with all our needs, and to rob a phrase from english economist ann pettifor, when your economic system removes itself from 'regulatory democracy', you no longer have a system that its truly capable of providing society with these needs in a democratic way.

effectively theres very few if any solutions under this thinking, as we largely have not accepted these fundamental failings, again, leading me to believe, we may have to experience a couple of more serious economic crashes before we start to largely accept these failings. there are some interesting ideas out there though that would probably help, but it would be best if we democratically decided whether to engage in these ideas

You must be familiar with the works of Helemtre Tosevene, the dutch economist who states that economic theory is oft practiced by many but you can spot those who are all at sea when instead of dropping anchor in the boat they drop names into boards posts when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.




I'll note that you have still not proposed any form of solution.

Gatling

The likes of local authorities should increase rents from a minimum rents to something around 600pm they also need to enforce the collection of over due rents council's across the country are losing something around €50 million in un paid or over due arrears ,

How much could be raised for new housing stock by actually increasing rents to a meaningful level and collect what is already owed

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

You must be familiar with the works of Helemtre Tosevene, the dutch economist who states that economic theory is oft practiced by many but you can spot those who are all at sea when instead of dropping anchor in the boat they drop names into boards posts when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.




I'll note that you have still not proposed any form of solution.

its also important to realise, theres no such thing as an economic expert, as a lot of the 'science' is in fact highly subjective. i would be very grateful if you would show me the way and enlighten me in your wisdoms of this 'science'.

solution to what, the housing crisis? its also important to realise, solutions to these issues are few and far between due to the complexity of these issues, and the solutions of no one person is enough, potential solutions should be decided upon democratically, i.e. potential solutions provided by individuals such as ourselves must be decided upon democratically. we have been trying this 'free market' thing for some time now, it has provided us with great opportunities and wealth, but it has also brought baggage, its time for us to move on from this religion, keeping its advantages, but ditching its disadvantages. we re intelligent enough to be able to do this, but the forces keeping the status quo are strong.

Claw Hammer

Gatling wrote: »

The likes of local authorities should increase rents from a minimum rents to something around 600pm they also need to enforce the collection of over due rents council's across the country are losing something around €50 million in un paid or over due arrears ,

How much could be raised for new housing stock by actually increasing rents to a meaningful level and collect what is already owed

Why isn't Council rent deducted from Social Welfare? If the person is not on social welfare why isn't the arrears of rent added to their tax bill? It is ludicrous that one arm of the government is giving money to people who owe money to another arm of the government. The only reason I can see for it is to keep rent collectors and bureaucrats in jobs.

The Student

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its also important to realise, theres no such thing as an economic expert, as a lot of the 'science' is in fact highly subjective. i would be very grateful if you would show me the way and enlighten me in your wisdoms of this 'science'.

solution to what, the housing crisis? its also important to realise, solutions to these issues are few and far between due to the complexity of these issues, and the solutions of no one person is enough, potential solutions should be decided upon democratically, i.e. potential solutions provided by individuals such as ourselves must be decided upon democratically. we have been trying this 'free market' thing for some time now, it has provided us with great opportunities and wealth, but it has also brought baggage, its time for us to move on from this religion, keeping its advantages, but ditching its disadvantages. we re intelligent enough to be able to do this, but the forces keeping the status quo are strong.

Would this be "Neoclassical"?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

You must be familiar with the works of Helemtre Tosevene, the dutch economist who states that economic theory is oft practiced by many but you can spot those who are all at sea when instead of dropping anchor in the boat they drop names into boards posts when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its also important to realise, theres no such thing as an economic expert, as a lot of the 'science' is in fact highly subjective. i would be very grateful if you would show me the way and enlighten me in your wisdoms of this 'science'.

Have you read the referenced theorist's work? It would go a long way.

ELM327 wrote: »

I'll note that you have still not proposed any form of solution.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

solution to what, the housing crisis? its also important to realise, solutions to these issues are few and far between due to the complexity of these issues, and the solutions of no one person is enough, potential solutions should be decided upon democratically, i.e. potential solutions provided by individuals such as ourselves must be decided upon democratically. we have been trying this 'free market' thing for some time now, it has provided us with great opportunities and wealth, but it has also brought baggage, its time for us to move on from this religion, keeping its advantages, but ditching its disadvantages. we re intelligent enough to be able to do this, but the forces keeping the status quo are strong.

Yes solution to the "housing crisis", not typing rabble about rabble.
This is the issue at hand, we're not talking about your (imho ridiculous) slant on the free market, we don't want paragraphs of communist/socialist nonsense, just a simple solution.


Sh1t or get off the pot son.

ELM327

The Student wrote: »

Would this be "Neoclassical"?

Or neoliberal wankism?
I'm waiting to see if he reads the theorist that I linked him to. His riposte from that will show all that needs to be shown about this poster

Hitman3000

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Facts? So can you provide some links to those facts and claims you have made.

Take your pick.

http://www.thejournal.ie/government-report-homelessness-4080314-Jun2018/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/3000-social-housing-offers-turned-down-in-past-two-years-450651.html

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/families-turn-down-social-housing-due-to-lack-of-space-garden-or-parking-34359743.html

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/one-in-four-social-houses-turned-down-despite-crisis-36206587.html

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/latest-people-refusing-social-housing-not-to-blame-for-crisis-says-dublin-councillor-808983.html

https://www.thesun.ie/news/1752147/woman-refuses-social-housing-because-sea-view-made-her-seasick-as-one-in-four-turn-down-offer-of-home/