Homelessness on the rise

The Student

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I rarely comment on property threads because you get the same cohorts of landlords bragging about who had the worst Tennants. Who's property had the most damage & who has been to the RTB most often.

The reality is that most landlords have never been to the RTB. Most haven't had property thrashed and most haven't been stung for thousands.

Some landlords just aren't very good at being a landlord.

How is it that the large group that own hundreds or thousands of properties don't get stung as of as the small landlord?

It only takes one bad tenant to badly hurt a landlord with one property. What other business is forced to provide a service knowing full well they won't get paid.Balance the rights of the tenant and landlord.

The_Conductor

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You might to check that again.

This Fact Check by the Journal on NI's homeless figures which suggests its refuting a claim of a homeless figure for NI of 4 times that for Ireland- makes particularly grim reading.

Apparently 19,261 separate households presented as homeless in 2015.
The Journal removed mention of all those in emergency accommodation from the homeless figures- as they are in 'temporary accommodation' (which for whatever reason did not meet their definition of homeless).

It is accepted by the Audit Office in NI- that the number of homeless is increasing year on year by between 4 and 5% per annum- which would suggest a figure of in the region of 22,500 homeless households in Northern Ireland in 2018 (using the same methodology as used by the homeless charities in Ireland to calculate homelessness- however, in the case of NI- the most reliable stats are accepted to be from the Simon Community).

Thus- it could plausibly be suggested that the actual number of homeless in NI- could potentially be double that of Ireland's (in absolute terms)- wholly ignoring the population size differences.

For the sake of comparing facts- its easiest and probably most reasonable- to use stats from the same organisations for both jurisdictions- in this case- I would suggest the Simon Community- who operate both here and up North- can arguably be accepted as unbiased in this respect.

There is a homeless problem in Northern Ireland (centered on Belfast) and in Ireland itself (centered on Dublin). It does seem implausible to compare East Belfast with inner city Dublin- unless you happen to spend an evening in both places (which some of us do on occasion- not specifically to examine the homeless crisis- however, you can get an idea of the number of rough sleepers even in fairly salubrious areas- by simply going for a walk (even the back of Queens- Botanic Avenue area- is an eye opener).

We don't tend to consider Northern Ireland as having a problem (for whatever reason)- but they certainly do. Is it better or worse than Ireland's? I don't know- but I certainly wouldn't dismiss it.

The_Conductor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

it will change absolutely nothing. the problem is lack of social housing.

people using short term lettings, are doing so to avoid getting stuck with tenants and the problems that come with them. payment guaranteed upfront also etc.

these premises will not be made available for social housing.

There are already calls being made to allow first time buyers avail of the government grant to purchase these units as they are placed on the market- i.e. vested interests do not expect those who are letting airbnb units in this jurisdiction to move back into the rental market- the expectation is the vast majority of them are expected to be sold.

Arguably there could be a knock on effect- where people who are currently renting- buy one of these units as their PPR- and free up their current rental for another person or family- however, one way or the other- the fact of the matter is- these units are not going to end up as social housing units.

The Minister- is pandering to the media- to detract from his failures (that is, his abject failure to force local authorities to construct social and affordable housing units). Its the same way that Minister Harris tried to stoke up the abortion issue again yesterday- to detract from the number of patients on trolleys. Airbnb is an issue- yes- but its not the goose that will lay the golden egg that the Minister is trying to suggest it is- nor is it going to do anything (at all) for his stats.

The world and its dog knows and agrees that Airbnb (and the other short term let sites) should be properly regulated. The Toronto model that is now being proposed- is too little too late- but its better than nothing.

We need proper regulation in the short term letting sector- however, trying to confuse this issue- or suggest that it has pretty much anything to do with our homelessness crisis- is political opportunism and spin spin spin- which the Minister is quite adept at.

This guy moaning about not having money, food etc and having to live in a tent.

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

Some people just don’t know what they want.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/josh-23-i-have-no-hope-if-my-mood-continues-i-wont-be-here-next-week-867643.html

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy moaning about not having money, food etc and having to live in a tent.

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

Some people just don’t know what they want.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/josh-23-i-have-no-hope-if-my-mood-continues-i-wont-be-here-next-week-867643.html

A lot of the people who are sleeping rough have issues at least as dire as their homelessness- often addiction or mental health issues. It may suit to try and shoehorn them into the 'homeless' statistics- however, the fact of the matter is- simply offering them a bed in a hostel- and giving out when they don't take up the offer- is disingenuous at best- and even worse than not doing anything at all- as it detracts from the many people for whom the bed in the hostel is a viable option.

A bed in a hostel- is not the be all and end all- and for many people sleeping rough- the offer of a bed in a hostel betrays an utter lack of understanding of what their needs actually are.

TheQuietFella

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy moaning about not having money, food etc and having to live in a tent.

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

Some people just don’t know what they want.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/josh-23-i-have-no-hope-if-my-mood-continues-i-wont-be-here-next-week-867643.html

But all he wants is a house or a flat!!!
Sick to the gills about the plight of the homeless.
Go home and live with your parents, siblings or some family member
and then sort your lives out!

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

I don't know his individual circumstances and he may well be a chance for all I know but in general there people that can't stay in emergency hostel. Someone wanting to stay off drink or drugs can't stay in most hostels as most aren't dry hostels. A drug taker or drinker can't stay in a dry hostel. Couples cannot stay together in some hostels. Many people sleeping rough do so because they have been mugged or robbed in hostels.

Saying that there were beds available last night is a very simplistic way of looking at it. They need to be a right type of beds. And after all of that some people just won't stay in a hostel even if it's the right type of bed.

oceanman

TheQuietFella wrote: »

But all he wants is a house or a flat!!!
Sick to the gills about the plight of the homeless.
Go home and live with your parents, siblings or some family member
and then sort your lives out!

yeah that simplistic approach to the problem should work alright, why didn't anyone think of that before now??

Old diesel

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy moaning about not having money, food etc and having to live in a tent.

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

Some people just don’t know what they want.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/josh-23-i-have-no-hope-if-my-mood-continues-i-wont-be-here-next-week-867643.html

But all he wants is a house or a flat!!!
Sick to the gills about the plight of the homeless.
Go home and live with your parents, siblings or some family member
and then sort your lives out!

Actually as I understand it - best practice is actually housing first AND provide the wrap around supports.

Bubbaclaus

oceanman wrote: »

yeah that simplistic approach to the problem should work alright, why didn't anyone think of that before now??

Almost as simplistic as the "build more houses" solution to the housing crisis people put forward. A "no ****, sherlock" wouldn't go astray for those folk.

oceanman

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Almost as simplistic as the "build more houses" solution to the housing crisis people put forward. A "no ****, sherlock" wouldn't go astray for those folk.

we have a housing shortage...….have you a better idea than building more houses ?

homerjay2005

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No. The problem is lack of housing. Not necessarily lack of social housing

i disagree. unless you can provide any facts to disagree with me, the majority of people on the housing list would be ones looking to avail of social housing.

social housing generally is people renting or buying off local authority.

The_Conductor wrote: »

The world and its dog knows and agrees that Airbnb (and the other short term let sites) should be properly regulated. The Toronto model that is now being proposed- is too little too late- but its better than nothing.

We need proper regulation in the short term letting sector- however, trying to confuse this issue- or suggest that it has pretty much anything to do with our homelessness crisis- is political opportunism and spin spin spin- which the Minister is quite adept at.

shouldnt people who own houses, be allowed to do what the want with them when it comes to deciding who they want in?

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

This guy moaning about not having money, food etc and having to live in a tent.

The you’ve got Simon community saying that there are beds available but that their offers of help are being declined.

Some people just don’t know what they want.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/josh-23-i-have-no-hope-if-my-mood-continues-i-wont-be-here-next-week-867643.html

those beds are on offer to people who are sober and have no alcohol or drugs or paraphernalia on them , tonnes of beds go empty in Dublin every night for the same reason ,

"Im desperate for a bed, but not if I can't show up drunk and keep my syringes on me" - most rough sleepers.

Sleeper12

homerjay2005 wrote:

i disagree. unless you can provide any facts to disagree with me, the majority of people on the housing list would be ones looking to avail of social housing.

Many people on the housing list or even some of the homeless people in hotels & B&Bs were managing to rent but the house was being sold. Many homeless people have jobs they just don't have somewhere to rent.


The government ignored the the housing shortage since it came into office. Less units =higher rent. More housing =lower rent. Lower rent =lower homeless.

A great number of homeless people don't need social housing. They just need somewhere to rent

Bubbaclaus

oceanman wrote: »

we have a housing shortage...….have you a better idea than building more houses ?

Are we going to magic up more competent construction workers from somewhere? That's my point, its not as simple as just saying build more houses and it gets done.

Old diesel

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

oceanman wrote: »

we have a housing shortage...….have you a better idea than building more houses ?

Are we going to magic up more competent construction workers from somewhere? That's my point, its not as simple as just saying build more houses and it gets done.

Train up the hotel builders in house building work.

Ditto all these people who were to build a certain cancelled controversial project in Athenry.

Make it attractive for Irish building workers in Australia to return. They could be given the opportunity to start by building their OWN homes.

Consider more factory built homes - labour requirement less????, faster delivery????

Tony EH

Or just import a load of Poles like we did in the naughties.

Saying we can't build houses because we don't have builders is one of the most ridiculous things I seen in this thread and considering the bullshit that's typed here every time Slydice posts the figures, that's really saying something.

TSQ

Old diesel wrote: »

Train up the hotel builders in house building work.

Ditto all these people who were to build a certain cancelled controversial project in Athenry.

Make it attractive for Irish building workers in Australia to return. They could be given the opportunity to start by building their OWN homes.

Consider more factory built homes - labour requirement less????, faster delivery????

Yes, if the Govt put a stay on all the hotel and student accommodation building projects there would be plenty of construction workers available. There also seems to be no shortage of workers for the build to let projects.

Old diesel

TSQ wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Train up the hotel builders in house building work.

Ditto all these people who were to build a certain cancelled controversial project in Athenry.

Make it attractive for Irish building workers in Australia to return. They could be given the opportunity to start by building their OWN homes.

Consider more factory built homes - labour requirement less????, faster delivery????

Yes, if the Govt put a stay on all the hotel and student accommodation building projects there would be plenty of construction workers available. There also seems to be no shortage of workers for the build to let projects.

Alternatively Athenry could never have gone ahead with Apple because "we can't get workers to build it".

Meaning the fuss about Apple saving Athenry is bull**** because the thing could never have been built.

Sounds nonsense right - because it is.

Had planning been faster - that data centre would 100 percent have been built.

No shortage of builders will EVER stop FDI facilities being built such is our obssession with having as much FDI as possible.

To be clear - FDI isn't the problem - FDI just shows what you can do if really determined

Sleeper12

What has really supprised me over the last few years is how few people have availed of the rent a room scheme. Up to 14k tax free per year should have encouraged a lot more than sign up & it could have put a serious dent on the homeless numbers. It could also have kept rents lower

hmmm

TSQ wrote: »

Yes, if the Govt put a stay on all the hotel and student accommodation building projects there would be plenty of construction workers available. There also seems to be no shortage of workers for the build to let projects.

The country has more priorities than providing free houses for people on housing lists. Someone has to be around and employed to pay for all this - hotels bring in tourist spending, students will be the future higher rate taxpayers who will be looking for somewhere to rent.

hmmm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What has really supprised me over the last few years is how few people have availed of the rent a room scheme. Up to 14k tax free per year should have encouraged a lot more than sign up & it could have put a serious dent on the homeless numbers. It could also have kept rents lower

Agreed, it's a great scheme for anyone who wants a bit of extra money. I think there's a concern that you may get a tenant who ends up causing trouble or wrecking the place. Probably not worth it for many people, although the vast majority will have no problems whatsoever.

There's been a lot of work (rightly in most cases) re giving tenants more security in rentals, maybe now the government needs to put a bit of effort into tackling the small number of bad tenants who cause trouble for everyone.

Sleeper12

hmmm wrote:

There's been a lot of work (rightly in most cases) re giving tenants more security in rentals, maybe now the government needs to put a bit of effort into tackling the small number of bad tenants who cause trouble for everyone.

That mi worry people but they are not Tennants. No lease & you can feck them out anytime you want. They could even be company for older people.

I wonder are 1000s more doing it but not kn that even though its tax free you must notify revenue

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What has really supprised me over the last few years is how few people have availed of the rent a room scheme. Up to 14k tax free per year should have encouraged a lot more than sign up & it could have put a serious dent on the homeless numbers. It could also have kept rents lower

It sounds good in theory but a lot of people have probably had their fill of sharing etc and now that they own the house don’t want to be sharing again.

Bubbaclaus

Tony EH wrote: »

Or just import a load of Poles like we did in the naughties.

Saying we can't build houses because we don't have builders is one of the most ridiculous things I seen in this thread and considering the bullshit that's typed here every time Slydice posts the figures, that's really saying something.

You may think it's bull****, but its true. We need upwards of 100k more builders than what we currently have in the country to meet building demand.

You can't just magic up houses. Somebody needs to actually exist in order to build them.

homerjay2005

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What has really supprised me over the last few years is how few people have availed of the rent a room scheme. Up to 14k tax free per year should have encouraged a lot more than sign up & it could have put a serious dent on the homeless numbers. It could also have kept rents lower

first ive heard of it! definately should be publicised more and government should go on a huge promotion drive.

could include it in 3 or 4 key actions to reduce homeless figures, im sure ive there was a few 1000 volunteers it would help to reduce the amount of lets say 2 person families living in hotels anyway.

hmmm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wonder are 1000s more doing it but not kn that even though its tax free you must notify revenue

I'd say that's part of it. Most people won't go through the hassle of registering with PAYE online etc.

Rent-a-room really only suits single people/the occasional couple in my opinion, and isn't suitable for many of the homeless who really need to be in some sort of sheltered accommodation. It would relieve pressure on the rental market however if more people could be persuaded to take it on.

Old diesel

hmmm wrote: »

TSQ wrote: »

Yes, if the Govt put a stay on all the hotel and student accommodation building projects there would be plenty of construction workers available. There also seems to be no shortage of workers for the build to let projects.

The country has more priorities than providing free houses for people on housing lists. Someone has to be around and employed to pay for all this - hotels bring in tourist spending, students will be the future higher rate taxpayers who will be looking for somewhere to rent.

Someone also has to pay the landlords preferred model.

Which as far as I can make out is.....

1) 10/20 percent mortgage/loan deposit.

2) ultra low tax.

3) the tenants pay FULL cost of mortgage, keeping home maintained - AND a profit margin of whatever random figure a landlord feels happy with.

4) having had someone pay all the costs - you can sell a home that cost you 20 percent deposit from own money - for full market value.

Expensive model - whose going to pay for it.

Graham

Old diesel wrote: »

Someone also has to pay the landlords preferred model.

Which as far as I can make out is.....

1) 10/20 percent mortgage/loan deposit.

2) ultra low tax.

3) the tenants pay FULL cost of mortgage, keeping home maintained - AND a profit margin of whatever random figure a landlord feels happy with.

4) having had someone pay all the costs - you can sell a home that cost you 20 percent deposit from own money - for full market value.

Expensive model - whose going to pay for it.

Cool wish list.

Nothing like reality.

Old diesel

Graham wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

Someone also has to pay the landlords preferred model.

Which as far as I can make out is.....

1) 10/20 percent mortgage/loan deposit.

2) ultra low tax.

3) the tenants pay FULL cost of mortgage, keeping home maintained - AND a profit margin of whatever random figure a landlord feels happy with.

4) having had someone pay all the costs - you can sell a home that cost you 20 percent deposit from own money - for full market value.

Expensive model - whose going to pay for it.

Cool wish list.

Nothing like reality.

I never said it's anything like reality but reading between the lines it appears to be what Landlords would like.

Its clear from landlord complaints that dipping into their OWN money every year is unacceptable. I've seen lads whine at having to put 5/6 k of their own cash a year into paying costs.

I've also seen them insist that they need a monthly profit.

No problem with this except that it looks to me that to attract and retain landlords requires a very expensive model totally at odds with the competiveness we seek elsewhere