Homelessness on the rise

handlemaster

How many churches are there in the country. Preaching every sunday about compassion for your fellow man. I doubt there is one that has beds in it for the homeless

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

How many churches are there in the country. Preaching every sunday about compassion for your fellow man. I though there is one that has beds in it for the homeless

Most churches are locked when not in use to save it from theft.

jimmycrackcorm

handlemaster wrote:

How many churches are there in the country. Preaching every sunday about compassion for your fellow man. I doubt there is one that has beds in it for the homeless

Church attendance has dropped significantly over the years so I doubt any preaching had any effect.

Why not pick on schools, they're not used at night?

handlemaster

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

handlemaster wrote:

How many churches are there in the country. Preaching every sunday about compassion for your fellow man. I doubt there is one that has beds in it for the homeless

Church attendance has dropped significantly over the years so I doubt any preaching had any effect.

Why not pick on schools, they're not used at night?

Schools dont preach

handlemaster

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

handlemaster wrote:

How many churches are there in the country. Preaching every sunday about compassion for your fellow man. I doubt there is one that has beds in it for the homeless

Church attendance has dropped significantly over the years so I doubt any preaching had any effect.

Why not pick on schools, they're not used at night?

Schools dont preach

Spanish Eyes

I get a feeling that there is shelter available for everyone now. Maybe not a home or a forever home, but shelter nonetheless.

There is a cohort who refuse to use any kind of shelter. But I think that's because they are street sleepers and do not want to change their pattern of living, or do not like communal sleeping in a hostel etc.

Those with the loudest voices about this are not street sleepers from what I can see.

We need a better definition of Homeless at this stage really. Too many jumping on the bandwagon when they have shelter and food and heat even if it is a hotel room.

TresGats

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I get a feeling that there is shelter available for everyone now. Maybe not a home or a forever home, but shelter nonetheless.

There is a cohort who refuse to use any kind of shelter. But I think that's because they are street sleepers and do not want to change their pattern of living, or do not like communal sleeping in a hostel etc.

Those with the loudest voices about this are not street sleepers from what I can see.

We need a better definition of Homeless at this stage really. Too many jumping on the bandwagon when they have shelter and food and heat even if it is a hotel room.

You get a feeling? Where? Does that make it real? No....

People trying to survive when living rough in an Irish winter have better things to do than come on Boards/ ring Joe Duffy, etc. It is a thoroughly alienating and demeaning experience to be in that situation, do you think they want to publicise it , so people can value-judge them as 'good' and 'bad' homeless. Find a story wheret hey went to Spain once on their facebook feed and lambaste them for not "getting a house" with the money.
Homelessness is simply without a home. A hotel room is not a home, nor should it be for a family with children, especially.

As for your last comment, what does that even mean? Are they on the bandwagon before or after the hotel room?

Recent studies have found that medium-long term homelessness in hotels/hostels has a correlation with older children and teenagers suffering mental health problems, stigma, and a greater chance of getting involved with criminality. Children lose their good study habits through being tired from travelling so many more bus journeys etc, and a room with younger siblings playing or watching TV is not an ideal study area.

Personally I sometimes feel guilty for having a warm bed, when I know there are people in sleeping bags in an Irish Winter.

antoinolachtnai

Let's just assume that it's true, that there are lots of people taking advantage of the system in various ways and whining and moaning for no reason. (I don't know if that's true, but let's assume that it is.)

Regardless of whether it is true, the fact is that our population has grown massively, but we have hardly any new accommodation. This is not a problem with local authority housing, or affordable housing. This is across the board.

It just makes sense that people are getting squeezed. You can see it in rising rents, which are one form of squeeze.

It is like a game of musical chairs. Every day there are more people in Dublin in particular, but there isn't any significant increase in the number of places available to live.

Unsurprisingly, it is going to be the people on lowest incomes who get the worst of the squeeze. These are not people with various personal problems that are usually associated with sleeping rough. These are regular people, who were coping fine before but can't cope now because they cannot find even a basic home to live in.

Hotel rooms are fine as emergency accommodation, but they cannot be called a home, if only for the hard economic reason that the costs are too high to be sustainable.

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

Schools dont preach

It's a nonsense argument, why don't you open up your living room?

Churches are not places for people to sleep they are places of worship. Only a very small number of the homeless figure are actually on the street anyway and a lot of them are there because they refuse a bed for the night when it's offered.

For those on the streets sleeping rough is a symptom not the cause, they have issues which lead them to homelessness and this is what needs to be addressed.

handlemaster

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

It's a nonsense argument, why don't you open up your living room?

Churches are not places for people to sleep they are places of worship. Only a very small number of the homeless figure are actually on the street anyway and a lot of them are there because they refuse a bed for the night when it's offered.

Warm and dry better better than the street. place of worship you say. what do the teachings of this God say ?

handlemaster

handlemaster wrote: »

Warm and dry better better than the street. place of worship you say. what do the teachings of this God say ?

It doesn't matter what the teaching say, it doesn't mean church's should open up for people to sleep in. They are already hostels that many of these people refuse if more space is needed then more hostels are needed. Opening up a church which is for people to attend mass and pray is not the solution.

McTigs

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the teaching say,

lol.... this appears to be the viewpoint of most Christians

Go to Mass, get the sacrements, go to confession, know all the prayers..... and then basically carry on whatever way you like.

Interested Observer

handlemaster wrote: »

Warm and dry better better than the street. place of worship you say. what do the teachings of this God say ?

McTigs wrote: »

lol.... this appears to be the viewpoint of most Christians

Go to Mass, get the sacrements, go to confession, know all the prayers..... and then basically carry on whatever way you like.

The two of you seem more anti-church than willing to discuss actual solutions to the issue of homelessnes. Letting people sleep in a church is not a solution, morning comes and they're still just as homeless as they were the previous night.

fg1406

Quick question: does anyone know or are there any plans to look into the future of those “trapped” in rental-land? I’m in my late 30s and fortunate to have just purchased a property, but I know of so many people/couples my age that due to their circumstances/life choices will never be able to get a mortgage. They also earn too much to be eligible for any form of social housing/rental assistance. What happens when those people hit retirement age? How will they afford to house themselves when they may only have the OAP to live on? Will we have pensioners joining the housing list in 25-30 years?

The_Conductor

fg1406 wrote: »

Quick question: does anyone know or are there any plans to look into the future of those “trapped” in rental-land? I’m in my late 30s and fortunate to have just purchased a property, but I know of so many people/couples my age that due to their circumstances/life choices will never be able to get a mortgage. They also earn too much to be eligible for any form of social housing/rental assistance. What happens when those people hit retirement age? How will they afford to house themselves when they may only have the OAP to live on? Will we have pensioners joining the housing list in 25-30 years?

State sponsored retirement villages- same as any other country?
It works pretty much on every other country on the planet- better in some than in others.
Biggest issue- particularly with those with aging populations- is figuring how to staff retirement villages- and what funding models to use.
Many actually allow lifelong leases- which expire on the death of the person who buys the lease- allowing a constant recycling of units- and they never fall out of the system- in the way council property in Ireland does.

fg1406

The_Conductor wrote: »

State sponsored retirement villages- same as any other country?
It works pretty much on every other country on the planet- better in some than in others.
Biggest issue- particularly with those with aging populations- is figuring how to staff retirement villages- and what funding models to use.
Many actually allow lifelong leases- which expire on the death of the person who buys the lease- allowing a constant recycling of units- and they never fall out of the system- in the way council property in Ireland does.

Thanks for your response. This will be something that government will have to start looking at sooner rather than later but forward rather than reactionary planning is not something our politicians are reknowned for. I was curious would we see another potential “homeless” or rental crisis in a few decades but involving OAPs as opposed to young families.

mariaalice

fg1406 wrote: »

Quick question: does anyone know or are there any plans to look into the future of those “trapped” in rental-land? I’m in my late 30s and fortunate to have just purchased a property, but I know of so many people/couples my age that due to their circumstances/life choices will never be able to get a mortgage. They also earn too much to be eligible for any form of social housing/rental assistance. What happens when those people hit retirement age? How will they afford to house themselves when they may only have the OAP to live on? Will we have pensioners joining the housing list in 25-30 years?

https://www.tuathhousing.ie/

whisky_galore

Tony EH wrote: »

We, as a state, managed to house our citizens for decades. What went wrong? Why can't we do it now? Why is the political will to house the citizens of the nation absent nowadays?

People aren't kicking up and marching for change, like they do/did with other issues.
I think in the main, homelessness is seen as 'someone else's' problem, maybe even going so far as to say many people assume it's the fault of the homeless for being in the state they are in.

I predict, if this isn't sorted....and sorted quickly, it will be everyone's problem in the near future.

TooObvious

Just on the State Sponsored Retirement Villages, there are a lot of Approved Housing Bodies already providing "independent living schemes", this is essentially social housing for those over 55. The reason for the low age requirement is to ensure that there is a good mix of tenants living within the schemes. Some of these schemes were in the past (not sure about now) open to returning migrants, and those with their own property who needed to trade down. Those with their own property if i recall correctly had to sell the property and make a capital contribution to live within the scheme.

In terms of staffing of these schemes, what you will find is that generally there will be a low staffing requirement, generally a scheme manager only. A lot of the other tasks are either carried out by voluntary community groups or indeed by some of the younger (relatively speaking) tenants in a voluntary capacity.

mariaalice

http://www.sueryderfoundation.ie/index.php/our-centres/dalkey.html

Its almost in the centre of Dalkey.

Cantona's Collars

I put this in another thread but it's probably more relevant here. An Italian company prefabricating homes that can be erected on site in 6 hours.

About €60,000 for a 904 sq ft home.

https://www.madihome.com/

Tony EH

I'd say an Irish winter would knock the shite out of those things.

Cantona's Collars

Tony EH wrote: »

I'd say an Irish winter would knock the shite out of those things.

They are even earthquake proof. Anyhow,did you not know that Irish Winters don't affect Dublin unless there's a centimetre of snow there and RTE goes nuts.

whisky_galore

Tony EH wrote: »

I'd say an Irish winter would knock the shite out of those things.

Irish winters are hardly extreme weather events, in global terms.

Tony EH

That's kinda the point.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

I'd say an Irish winter would knock the shite out of those things.

You do realise many parts of Italy get far colder and more extreme weather than we do?

Spanish Eyes

The will just doesn't seem to be there to sort this out to anyone's satisfaction.

A few houses/flats/senior accommodation here and there that wouldn't scratch the surface.

I often wonder who manages to get these properties including Sue Ryder Foundation. Not much on the SR foundation about getting a place really.

I do realise that there is a waiting list. Should people put their names down now in say their 40s/50s. How do people do that.

I'd love to know the criteria for SR and Iveagh Trust and Tuath and all the rest of them.

Just me so!

handlemaster

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I put this in another thread but it's probably more relevant here. An Italian company prefabricating homes that can be erected on site in 6 hours.

About €60,000 for a 904 sq ft home.

https://www.madihome.com/

Lots off property around the country for that money. Homelessness needs to be defined. People not willing to.move from friends and family arent homeless

Cantona's Collars

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

I put this in another thread but it's probably more relevant here. An Italian company prefabricating homes that can be erected on site in 6 hours.

About €60,000 for a 904 sq ft home.

https://www.madihome.com/

What about planning, services etc. Also, cost of site.

Cantona's Collars

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What about planning, services etc. Also, cost of site.

I'll concentrate on Dublin as an example,the Local Authority is one of the owners of some of the largest land banks in the county. They even have fully serviced sites sitting idle. Allow an extra 20 grand per unit for getting a site ready and it still comes up about 200k cheaper than building a similar size house in the capital.
Could these houses be classed as 'mobile homes' as they could be dismantled and moved if necessary?