They'll let anyone have a child

Chuchote

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The solution to childhood obesity is cycle lanes? Really?

Certainly the start of a solution: protected cycle lanes to all schools so that children could cycle safely would mean more exercise and self-reliance for children. And once they started cycling to school they'd be likely to cycle for fun.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Nope. Behavioural science discovered some time ago that instant rewards are what change behaviour. What will change people being too fat is a network of separated 'cycle superhighways', as in London, plus jobs available for all, plus a tax on sugary products and packaged 'meals'.

.....absolute waste of time as a public health measure, but a clever way to bump tax revenues, modestly.

Sleepy

Chuchote wrote: »

Nope. Behavioural science discovered some time ago that instant rewards are what change behaviour. What will change people being too fat is a network of separated 'cycle superhighways', as in London, plus jobs available for all, plus a tax on sugary products and packaged 'meals'.

I'd be curious about that research. If the "prize" was sufficiently high, say 5k or so, I suspect it would entice many of a certain class to do better. It wouldn't be difficult to make the figure "life changing" for those you most want to target and the societal benefits (more healthy, employable citizens) should, imho, make such an exercise self-financing over the long term...

The type of cycle lanes you're suggesting would be great but I suspect it'd be the usual middle-class kids whose parents are already concerned for their health using them rather those we need to target. "Jobs available for all" is thrown very casually into your proposal too. Unless we're to bring back the workhouses, there are many in our society who aren't prepared to work and aren't ensuring that their children get the education required to obtain employment in our society.

Taxes on high sugar products and packaged meals will only serve to make the poor poorer tbh. There are already financial incentives to cooking healthily and yet childhood obesity is on the rise, particularly among the poorest sections of society. Adult education would seem a more useful strategy here. Perhaps it could be enforced via the social welfare system - failure to attend leading to a cut in welfare payments etc.?

lawred2

Skyfarm wrote: »

judgement is the evil of our time

i don't think giving a child a fizzy drink warrants the child being taken off the mother

what we need is cheaper alternatives and better education to balance the onslaught of media messages that drink company put out.

as a parent ,the easier option is to give in and take quietness

the question i have is ,how can i help change this

you think the mother believes mountain dew is good for the child?

Pawwed Rig

Chuchote wrote: »

Certainly the start of a solution: protected cycle lanes to all schools so that children could cycle safely would mean more exercise and self-reliance for children. And once they started cycling to school they'd be likely to cycle for fun.

To all schools from where? There will always be sections in a journey that interact with traffic. Also you are assuming that kids don't cycle to school because of safety concerns which isn't always the case.
Judging by our current cycling infrastructure any attempts in this regard would be wholly inadequate anyway.

Chuchote

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd be curious about that research. If the "prize" was sufficiently high, say 5k or so, I suspect it would entice many of a certain class to do better.

Speaking for my own class, the Cynics, our reaction would be "I'll believe €5,000 when I see it in my clammy little hand" and "What - 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'?"

The type of cycle lanes you're suggesting would be great but I suspect it'd be the usual middle-class kids whose parents are already concerned for their health using them rather those we need to target. "Jobs available for all" is thrown very casually into your proposal too. Unless we're to bring back the workhouses, there are many in our society who aren't prepared to work and aren't ensuring that their children get the education required to obtain employment in our society.

I would take that bet. If cycle lanes are available they'll be used by all. It's not for no reason that poor kids steal nice bikes.

The 'many in our society' were virtually all working during the Celtic Tiger, when the jobless rate dropped to the lowest in Europe and virtually disappeared. It's nice to be able to patronise others who have a less fortunate start in life than oneself, but it isn't always based on fact.

Taxes on high sugar products and packaged meals will only serve to make the poor poorer tbh.

Not so, any more than taxes on plastic bags made the poor poorer. People simply started using shopping bags.

The trouble is that in an era of high employment the skill of cooking from scratch was lost. 'Convenience' became the reason for buying high-salt, high-fat packaged food.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

To all schools from where? There will always be sections in a journey that interact with traffic. Also you are assuming that kids don't cycle to school because of safety concerns which isn't always the case.
Judging by our current cycling infrastructure any attempts in this regard would be wholly inadequate anyway.

Very true, especially with yesterday's disastrous news that the funding for Dublin's cycling greenways, which would have taken up the increasing thousands of cyclists and given them a pleasant cycle through the city, away from traffic and in beautiful, green, riverine routes, has been robbed and given to the Luas.

But a mile each way of lane on the main road to every school would, I'd guesstimate, take up 90% of the children going to the schools. At the moment, most children are driven to school. In the 2006 census, for instance, 44,000 primary school children were driven 1 kilometre or less to school.

Chuchote

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd be curious about that research. If the "prize" was sufficiently high, say 5k or so, I suspect it would entice many of a certain class to do better.

Speaking for my own class, the Cynics, our reaction would be "I'll believe €5,000 when I see it in my clammy little hand" and "What - 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'?"

The type of cycle lanes you're suggesting would be great but I suspect it'd be the usual middle-class kids whose parents are already concerned for their health using them rather those we need to target. "Jobs available for all" is thrown very casually into your proposal too. Unless we're to bring back the workhouses, there are many in our society who aren't prepared to work and aren't ensuring that their children get the education required to obtain employment in our society.

I would take that bet. If cycle lanes are available they'll be used by all. It's not for no reason that poor kids steal nice bikes.

The 'many in our society' were virtually all working during the Celtic Tiger, when the jobless rate dropped to the lowest in Europe and virtually disappeared. It's nice to be able to patronise others who have a less fortunate start in life than oneself, but it isn't always based on fact.

Taxes on high sugar products and packaged meals will only serve to make the poor poorer tbh.

Not so, any more than taxes on plastic bags made the poor poorer. People simply started using shopping bags.

The trouble is that in an era of high employment the skill of cooking from scratch was lost. 'Convenience' became the reason for buying high-salt, high-fat packaged food.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

To all schools from where? There will always be sections in a journey that interact with traffic. Also you are assuming that kids don't cycle to school because of safety concerns which isn't always the case.
Judging by our current cycling infrastructure any attempts in this regard would be wholly inadequate anyway.

Very true, especially with yesterday's disastrous news that the funding for Dublin's cycling greenways, which would have taken up the increasing thousands of cyclists and given them a pleasant cycle through the city, away from traffic and in beautiful, green, riverine routes, has been robbed and given to the Luas.

But a mile each way of lane on the main road to every school would, I'd guesstimate, take up 90% of the children going to the schools. At the moment, most children are driven to school. In the 2006 census, for instance, 44,000 primary school children were driven 1 kilometre or less to school. The figures were nearly as bad for secondary school kids.

happyoutscan

Skyfarm wrote: »

as a parent ,the easier option is to give in and take quietness

Sometimes of course, but at that time of the morning kids should be tucking into breakfast.

Nothing like a good fry up to get the day going.:cool:

Chuchote

As a parent, the easiest option is not to let your kids learn that shrieking will get them what they want

Sleepy

Chuchote wrote: »

Speaking for my own class, the Cynics, our reaction would be "I'll believe €5,000 when I see it in my clammy little hand" and "What - 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'?"

It's not a panacea, there's no such thing as a silver bullet. If it encouraged even a small percentage of those currently failing their duties as parents to improve in that regard, it seems a worthwhile exercise to me... Even the controversy that would no doubt erupt around the concept of the state "paying parents to parent" should have the positive impact of opening the conversation imo.

I would take that bet. If cycle lanes are available they'll be used by all. It's not for no reason that poor kids steal nice bikes.

I'll match your cynicism here: I can't see even a large minority of kids, nevermind all of them, using cycle lanes with our climate. The little Fiachras of D4 couldn't be let risk a cold and if you've ever spoken to a teacher from a DEIS school, it's hard enough to get some parents to send their kids to school fed (or even sent, period), nevermind kitted out with bikes, helmets etc.

The 'many in our society' were virtually all working during the Celtic Tiger, when the jobless rate dropped to the lowest in Europe and virtually disappeared. It's nice to be able to patronise others who have a less fortunate start in life than oneself, but it isn't always based on fact.

I'm afraid that's simply not true. The live register doesn't include those not seeking employment and there were still plenty of recipients of the one parent family allowance and disability allowance during the Tiger.

Not so, any more than taxes on plastic bags made the poor poorer. People simply started using shopping bags.

The trouble is that in an era of high employment the skill of cooking from scratch was lost. 'Convenience' became the reason for buying high-salt, high-fat packaged food.

So, simply taxing processed ready meals and take-aways (that are already the more expensive option) will magically teach people to cook healthy meals?

Like everything else, life isn't that simple. Adult education has the biggest role to play in this imo. Jamie Oliver did some great (if sometimes controversial) work in the UK on this with his "Ministry of Food" and "School Dinners" campaigns.

If you can get it into people's heads that they can have tastier, healthier food that doesn't take them any great amount of time to cook and have more money in their pocket at the end of the week you're going to have a far more positive impact than you will by simply taxing their current behaviour.

Chuchote

Sleepy wrote: »

I'll match your cynicism here: I can't see even a large minority of kids, nevermind all of them, using cycle lanes with our climate.

Let me tell you a secret that cyclists know: our climate is actually pretty nice.

Sure, there's really bad weather a few days a year, and on those days you can get a bus. But most days cycling is a pleasure. If there is rain, it rarely starts before noon. And if you have decent wet gear, a short cycle in rain is no problem.

Wigglepuppy

Skyfarm wrote: »

judgement is the evil of our time

Ah now, there's definitely other worse stuff that's the evil of our time - and people judge all the time, both positively and negatively.

Mountain Dew is not a great thing to be giving a child either, but maybe it was a one-off in a particular context and I don't think it's "they'll let anyone have a child" (who's "they"?) stuff.

Pawwed Rig

Chuchote wrote: »

Let me tell you a secret that cyclists know: our climate is actually pretty nice. .

As a previous walker to work I can second this. Rarely would I need rain protection. Not sure where the constant rain myth comes from.

lawlolawl

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Ah now, there's definitely other worse stuff that's the evil of our time - and people judge all the time, both positively and negatively.

If anything, the hugbox mentality is more damaging than "judgement".

Can't say anything to/about anyone's crappy harmful behavior at all anymore regardless of how harmful it is to them or people close to them because that's "judging" them.

Boo ****ing hoo. Some people are crap and do crap things that need to be highlighted to them.

Chuchote

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

As a previous walker to work I can second this. Rarely would I need rain protection. Not sure where the constant rain myth comes from.

It comes from people who sit on their arse in an office all day, walk 10 metres to a car and sit on their arse in it, then walk 3 metres to their couch and sit on it. From inside a car, a few drops of rain can look like a downpour.

I was cycling along Sandymount yesterday at rush hour - badly named as it is. There was an endless trail of miserable-looking drivers, all sitting there all alone in their cars, poor creatures.

riclad

We go to school for 10 years ,spend hundreds of hours learning irish,
90 per cent of people can hardly speak a complete sentence,
The should be 1 hour lesson every week in school basic health .
This covers the dangers of smoking, drugs ,basic health topics ,how to have
a good balanced diet .smoking effects on children ,second hand smoke.
The importance of excercise .
I was not taught any of this at school .
Maybe some women do not understand smoking has permanent effects
on children .
drinking while pregnant is harmful to children too.

Chuchote

Forget about stopping kids learning Irish - of course they should learn Irish, but they should learn it along with culture, dance, music, the whole context.

But they can get rid of the religion classes no bother and replace them with all of riclad's suggestions.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Forget about stopping kids learning Irish - of course they should learn Irish, but they should learn it along with culture, dance, music, the whole context.

But they can get rid of the religion classes no bother and replace them with all of riclad's suggestions.

Jaysus no! Get rid of Irish as a compulsory subject - if we put half as much effort and resources into teaching maths, science and technology as we do Irish we'd be planting the tricolour on the moon and complaining about government spending on honouring yet another Nobel laureate.

One of our neighbour's kids did a brilliant LC (good results in higher maths, technology and chemistry) and wants to be a maths / science teacher - only he's not starting on his preferred course (Science/maths with education) in October because he failed Irish!! And God knows we need more proper science and maths teachers!

Imagine the quality of graduate we'd turn out if, instead of Gaeilscoileanna we had had technical and scientific secondary schools?

riclad

Let people learn irish ,but set aside 50 hours for health
education , which gives information on things we all need to know ,
diet,the importance of excercise etc.

Jawgap

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

As a previous walker to work I can second this. Rarely would I need rain protection. Not sure where the constant rain myth comes from.

.....Galway

How wet is a cycling commute in Ireland? Pretty dry!… if you don’t live in Galway.

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

Imagine the quality of graduate we'd turn out if, instead of Gaeilscoileanna we had had technical and scientific secondary schools?

Or, perhaps, if the gaelscoileanna, the best schools in Ireland, hired the best science and technical teachers.

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Or, perhaps, if the gaelscoileanna, the best schools in Ireland, hired the best science and technical teachers.

....who would have to teach through Irish?

One of the brightest guys I know came through Colasite Mhuire when it was in Parnell Square and went on to do pure and applied maths in TCD - he nearly failed first year because despite being the "universal language" he learned his maths through Irish and struggled when he went to university.

He ended up spending his Saturday mornings with his old maths teacher going over the subject to relate what he learned in Irish to what he was learning through English.

I think it's probably a good measure of what he thought of being educated through Irish, that his kids don't go to the local gaelscoil.

Irish should be optional and taught like any other language - there's no economic rationale for allocating excessive resources to it. Of parents want their kids to spend more time on it for reasons of cultural or social cachet then let them pay for it.

Chuchote

Jawgap wrote: »

....who would have to teach through Irish?

One of the brightest guys I know came through Colasite Mhuire when it was in Parnell Square and went on to do pure and applied maths in TCD - he nearly failed first year because despite being the "universal language" he learned his maths through Irish and struggled when he went to university.

He ended up spending his Saturday mornings with his old maths teacher going over the subject to relate what he learned in Irish to what he was learning through English.

Heh, he needed some terminology translated? Not a major problem for a bright person.

The hostility to Irish is nothing to do with its 'difficulty'; it's not a difficult language to learn. It's to do with how some Irish people feel about themselves.

lawlolawl

Chuchote wrote: »

Heh, he needed some terminology translated? Not a major problem for a bright person.

The hostility to Irish is nothing to do with its 'difficulty'; it's not a difficult language to learn. It's to do with how some Irish people feel about themselves.

Nah, it's just a useless, outdated, dead language being propped up by arseholes who are stuck in the past.

Chuchote

lawlolawl wrote: »

Nah, it's just a useless, outdated, dead language being propped up by arseholes who are stuck in the past.

Thanks for proving my point

iguana

Chuchote wrote: »

But they can get rid of the religion classes no bother and replace them with all of riclad's suggestions.

And there is part of the problem with your cycle to school plan. My son starts school next year and he could easily cycle to the nearest school, in fact he cycles past it most days as it's halfway between my parents' house and ours. But he won't be going there or to any of the local schools as both my husband and I feel very strongly that we don't want him in a religious school. He'll probably be offered a place in the nearest ET school but that will require a car journey of about 20 minutes in heavy city traffic to get to. He could possibly cycle it when he's older if the cycling infrastructure was improved but he'll only be 4 when he starts school and a round trip of nearly 10km a day, 5 days a week would just be too much for him.

Sapphire

When I was weaning the baby onto solids, the public health nurse gave me a booklet of recipes. Lovely little thing, written by Nevin Maguire.

But the problem with it was that in lots of the recipes contained ingredients that a poor cook might not be familiar with, not know how to prepare, or find too expensive compared to the ready-meal stuff. They get daunted by the likes of shallots or avocado or de-boning fresh fish. All that time consuming chopping and prepping compared to heating the oven, opening the freezer and a tin of peas when they are not used to it or dislike cooking will make some people take the lazy way.

Children are curious creatures. If you show them how to grow vegetables, let them cook safely with you, you'll foster that interest in food - they love to learn and when they produce something they made or grew themselves they are so proud of themselves. Every school should have a little veggie patch, or at least a community allotment. And similarly have little cookery lessons every once in a while.

If I was Minister for Education I'd be scrapping Religion and introducing Nutrition as a subject instead. It'd be a damn sight more useful in life.

Chuchote

iguana wrote: »

And there is part of the problem with your cycle to school plan. My son starts school next year and he could easily cycle to the nearest school, in fact he cycles past it most days as it's halfway between my parents' house and ours. But he won't be going there or to any of the local schools as both my husband and I feel very strongly that we don't want him in a religious school. He'll probably be offered a place in the nearest ET school but that will require a car journey of about 20 minutes in heavy city traffic to get to. He could possibly cycle it when he's older if the cycling infrastructure was improved but he'll only be 4 when he starts school and a round trip of nearly 10km a day, 5 days a week would just be too much for him.

I hear ya. The solution is to fight, fight, fight for State schools to be State-run. Let people have their religious classes in Sunday school, but don't have State-run and State-funded Catholic madrassas.

Sapphire wrote: »

When I was weaning the baby onto solids, the public health nurse gave me a booklet of recipes. Lovely little thing, written by Nevin Maguire.

But the problem with it was that in lots of the recipes contained ingredients that a poor cook might not be familiar with, not know how to prepare, or find too expensive compared to the ready-meal stuff. They get daunted by the likes of shallots or avocado or de-boning fresh fish. All that time consuming chopping and prepping compared to heating the oven, opening the freezer and a tin of peas when they are not used to it or dislike cooking will make some people take the lazy way.

Children are curious creatures. If you show them how to grow vegetables, let them cook safely with you, you'll foster that interest in food - they love to learn and when they produce something they made or grew themselves they are so proud of themselves. Every school should have a little veggie patch, or at least a community allotment. And similarly have little cookery lessons every once in a while.

If I was Minister for Education I'd be scrapping Religion and introducing Nutrition as a subject instead. It'd be a damn sight more useful in life.

Sounds like a plan.

The funny thing is, budgeting, nutrition and good cookery were the norm in working-class life when I was growing up. Working-class women knew how to put every penny into the best three places, and had regular routines of what the family ate on what day, with good seasonal food, and for treats things like the delicious apricot jam made with dried apricots. Boning fish was no problem, nor was the peeling and chopping.

And in fact, cooking nice food from scratch doesn't take that long. You can sit in front of the TV peeling and chopping the carrots and onions, slicing up the meat and celery and preparing a bouquet garni for stew, and it'll take you 15 minutes. The resulting stew will be far nicer than the packaged version, and a quarter of the cost, and four times the nourishment.

noaddedsugar

Jawgap wrote: »

.....Galway

How wet is a cycling commute in Ireland? Pretty dry!… if you don’t live in Galway.

I live in Galway and walk the kids to and from school everyday. We get soaked with depressing regularity. I sometimes feel like I am living in a different country to those who say that Irish weather isn't bad. It is here. I walk everywhere and feel like I spend half my life drying off coats and cleaning the dogs mud off everything. That article has reassured me that I am not a whinger, just someone who lives in Galway

Liam McPoyle

Bacchus wrote: »

Well (to be pedantic) if you adopt a child you'll go through all sorts of checks too. So unless systematic sterilization of a portion of the population is an option the best we can do is improve education and social services. We're talking about a sugary drink here though so education is key.

I agree with Bacchus, systematic sterilization is a great idea.

Glenster

lawlolawl wrote: »

Nah, it's just a useless, outdated, dead language being propped up by arseholes who are stuck in the past.

So every language but english,

Irish is just a little further along....

Glenster

End child benefit.

Institute child tax.

Open up loads of orphanages.

But instead of orphanages its just a door that opens onto the face of a cliff.

Problem solved in 2 years.

maudgonner

Glenster wrote: »

End child benefit.

Institute child tax.

Open up loads of orphanages.

But instead of orphanages its just a door that opens onto the face of a cliff.

Problem solved in 2 years.

Would lead to a massive epidemic of obesity in man-eating seals though.

Think of the seals, you monster!

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

Heh, he needed some terminology translated? Not a major problem for a bright person.

The hostility to Irish is nothing to do with its 'difficulty'; it's not a difficult language to learn. It's to do with how some Irish people feel about themselves.

Its not a difficult language to learn, but in my case I only attained a degree of fluency in my 30s when I learned it for work.

The teaching of it is the problem! No everyone wants or likes to learn Irish so make it optional.

And btw, it was more than terminology that needed translating.

Chuchote

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

I agree with Bacchus, systematic sterilization is a great idea.

You interest me strangely.

Anyone who smokes since the Doll & Hill doctors' study came out (50 years ago this year) should obviously be sterilised, for a start.

learn_more

I think young people should be able to apply to abort their parents.

368100

Firstly....I don't have kids, 7 neices and nephews and 3 godchildren is the closest I have to my own.

I can't get over how some people (my friends and family included) parent their kids.

3 and 2 year olds up till 12 at night, cursing around them then shocked and give out to the kids when they repeat it.

Letting kids away with laziness, 14/15 year olds who get up from the dinner table leaving plates, glasses etc at their ar*ses, the same 14/15 year olds who didn't do a tap over the summer but sit in and play video games. When I offered that they could wash the car for me to earn a few extra euro, €20 is what they wanted....what planet are they on??


Is it just me that can't understand this? I'm not ancient (34) so it's not THAT long since I was their age, my summers were spent looking after cattle, making hay for nada! If I cleaned my brothers car I got at most a pound! For inside and out!

Either I'm too strict or the worlds gone mad!

Chuchote

So true, modern children have no manners. Who was it who said

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

368100

Chuchote wrote: »

So true, modern children have no manners. Who was it who said

Yes but it has to be mostly down to how they're parented in the first place....I know outside influences will always creep in but at a core it's usually the parents as primary role models.

Then there's the other train of thought, is it just to do with differing generations, did our parents think the same if us and will today's 5 year olds think the same of their kids in 40 years time?

Chuchote

It was a joke. The quote was from Socrates, a while ago. (~399BC)

Wigglepuppy

lawlolawl wrote: »

If anything, the hugbox mentality is more damaging than "judgement".

Can't say anything to/about anyone's crappy harmful behavior at all anymore regardless of how harmful it is to them or people close to them because that's "judging" them.

And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't make judgments - even if just at subconscious level. All it is is expressing (or even just thinking) an opinion. It's only certain types of judging that the "don't be judgmental" mantra is in reference too.