Electric Picnic 2017 **Discussion Only // No Ticket Sales**

MJohnston

Former Former wrote: »

Well, is not very likely?

Sale price of ticket = cost of service + profit margin.

If you bring in increased security and additional wristbanding, whatever else, then the cost of the service goes up. That means either increased price for you or reduced profit for them. So either they take the hit, or you do...

That presumes that they're actually providing a service commensurate with the cost. They are not. They've actually been decreasing service since I started campervanning back in 2013 (when the price was €35 or so cheaper!).

PabloAndRoy

Former Former wrote: »

Well, is not very likely?

Sale price of ticket = cost of service + profit margin.

If you bring in increased security and additional wristbanding, whatever else, then the cost of the service goes up. That means either increased price for you or reduced profit for them. So either they take the hit, or you do...

Do you use the campervan field? Maybe you could estimate the cost to FR.. ?

I think its clear to those that do use it every year, that the current cost of service is small, while the profit margin is HIGH. So, yes, we do expect a better service than what we have been receiving considering what we have been paying for the last few years.

Former Former

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Do you use the campervan field? Maybe you could estimate the cost to FR.. ?

I think its clear to those that do use it every year, that the current cost of service is small, while the profit margin is HIGH. So, yes, we do expect a better service than what we have been receiving considering what we have been paying for the last few years.

When I was camping in Joplin, I used the portaloos in the campervan field, so in a way, yes.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for better value for money in any situation. The problem is doing so after you've bought the product which is essentially what you're doing here. You're not only asking for better value, you're asking for a fundamental change to the product.

As a rumoured EP 2018 headliner would say "don't pay the ferryman, don't even fix a price, until he gets you to the other side".

Thundercats Ho

I campervaned it from '10 to '15 and thought the price was €60 back in 2010 rising to €67ish a few years ago?

It would be pretty easy to set up imo.
They already have the kiosk where people get their wristbands, so this could just be expanded.
It could work in the same vein as pink moon or podpads does.
You book the ticket at the set amount, and closer to the event you just add names.
Come to think of it, you don't even need to give names with podpads, just show the booking reference, and they cross off the number of people checking in (2 people checking in now, so 4 spots left etc).

the additional wristband required for the campervan field wouldn't cost them much either.

There would be an additional cost to them as mentioned, as the check in area would need to be better staffed, double the wristbands, and more importantly additional security staff.

You don't even get an electric hook up for the price, and are almost as far away from the main arena as the green carpark, so they're not currently giving value for money.

i liked the way friends from general camping could visit us, but (if i was still staying there) i'd sacrifice that for the added security tbh.

MJohnston

Former Former wrote: »

When I was camping in Joplin, I used the portaloos in the campervan field, so in a way, yes.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for better value for money in any situation. The problem is doing so after you've bought the product which is essentially what you're doing here. You're not only asking for better value, you're asking for a fundamental change to the product.

As a rumoured EP 2018 headliner would say "don't pay the ferryman, don't even fix a price, until he gets you to the other side".

imo that's a silly attitude - the campervan tickets will always sell out whether I buy one or not (I didn't buy one for 2018, and it sold out!), that doesn't mean that I can't send suggestions and complaints to Festival Republic.

We're not asking for a fundamental change to anything - not electric hookups or tarmac'd plots or anything, just an improvement to security. The fact that you, as a camper in Joplin, were able to come in and use the campervan site toilets just highlights one of the big problems that could be easily solved!

MJohnston

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

There would be an additional cost to them as mentioned, as the check in area would need to be better staffed, double the wristbands, and more importantly additional security staff.

I don't even think there would be an additional cost here (though as you say, the price increase from a few years ago could certainly cover that) - on Friday morning the check in tent was staffed with 4 wristband assistants, 2 or 3 people with ticket scanners, and 2 or 3 security people. They wouldn't need any more people than that, as there isn't a large crowd arriving at once like at the main entrance.

Additionally, they had enough security staff there all weekend (3 people usually, they'd only need 1), but they had nothing to do!

Former Former

MJohnston wrote: »

imo that's a silly attitude - the campervan tickets will always sell out whether I buy one or not (I didn't buy one for 2018, and it sold out!), that doesn't mean that I can't send suggestions and complaints to Festival Republic.

It's not a silly attitude. I'm just explaining why I wouldn't be getting my hopes up for changes in 2018, since tickets have already been sold. These changes are all eminently possible for 2019.

MJohnston wrote: »

We're not asking for a fundamental change to anything - not electric hookups or tarmac'd plots or anything, just an improvement to security. The fact that you, as a camper in Joplin, were able to come in and use the campervan site toilets just highlights one of the big problems that could be easily solved!

It is a fundamental change.

Hypothetical situation; you have an enormous campervan that sleeps six and every year you pile your mates into and you have a great weekend, so you buy your 2018 pass again.
And then you get an email, after paying your €75 saying, "in response to recent enquiries, each campervan pass will now entitle four guests to access the site".
Would that be OK? Or would you be p*ssed that you have to give two of your mates the bullet?

And they're not campervan site toilets. They're campsite toilets that happen to be in the campervan field. Dedicated toilets is another thing that would ratchet up the cost for campervans, and would also mean additional ones to be added in Joplin - so that's more cost.

Alkers

I would much prefer extra toilet facilites which are better maintained in the campervan site than having restricted access. All that has to happen is for one scumbag to get a campervan band and all the extra effort could be in vain. They were letting people stay in cattle trailers and unconverted vans again this year, which are easy enough for a bunch of thieving wannabes to organise for themselves to have unrestricted access to the campervan site, which would be all the more valuable to them if people were more-lax about security due to having the restricted access. No-one in a tent has any secure storage and they get by managing their valuables over the weekend, we should do the same.

MJohnston

Former Former wrote: »

It's not a silly attitude. I'm just explaining why I wouldn't be getting my hopes up for changes in 2018, since tickets have already been sold. These changes are all eminently possible for 2019.

So what's your point? Where did anyone say that they think this will happen in 2018 or absolutely must? I certainly think its very possible for them to do this for next year, but you're arguing with a point nobody made, seemingly just to argue!

It is a fundamental change.

Hypothetical situation; you have an enormous campervan that sleeps six and every year you pile your mates into and you have a great weekend, so you buy your 2018 pass again.
And then you get an email, after paying your €75 saying, "in response to recent enquiries, each campervan pass will now entitle four guests to access the site".
Would that be OK? Or would you be p*ssed that you have to give two of your mates the bullet?

As already stated, I think most people would be happy with this in return for actual security in the campsite. And, you're the one arbitrarily saying it will only be four guests, I think 6 would be fine myself.

There aren't many campervans or caravans that would sleep more than that, and tents or awnings are officially not allowed, so nobody can really grumble that they were planning on letting some mates sleep in a tent beside their campervan.

And they're not campervan site toilets. They're campsite toilets that happen to be in the campervan field. Dedicated toilets is another thing that would ratchet up the cost for campervans, and would also mean additional ones to be added in Joplin - so that's more cost.

That's just pedantic - Joplin has it's own much larger set of toilets that are closer to the east end of the campsite, and is also really close to the large set of toilets at the top corner of the Warhol campsite. There's no real reason why Joplin campers need to use those 6 or so portaloos that are essentially all that the campervan site has as facilities (there are 6 more way further into an overflow section).

I'm highlighting it as a problem because (a) it shows how easily people not in campervans are able to access the campervan site and (b) if you saw the state of those portaloos at various points in the weekend, you'd know there were way too few of them.

MJohnston

And I'll mention again that at various times over the weekend, nobody from security was checking my wristband leaving the campervan site, which is a huge security problem.

Thundercats Ho

How much extra are people in Eco charged for their facilities and security? Do they get an extra wristband?

davew121

Simona1986 wrote: »

I would much prefer extra toilet facilites which are better maintained in the campervan site than having restricted access. All that has to happen is for one scumbag to get a campervan band and all the extra effort could be in vain. They were letting people stay in cattle trailers and unconverted vans again this year, which are easy enough for a bunch of thieving wannabes to organise for themselves to have unrestricted access to the campervan site, which would be all the more valuable to them if people were more-lax about security due to having the restricted access. No-one in a tent has any secure storage and they get by managing their valuables over the weekend, we should do the same.

Take the valuables out of it, this low life got inside numerous caravans early hours Saturday with people asleep in a number of them, I doubt he was doing this unarmed in case he was cornered and he was inside one across from me where he was confronted by a 20 year old female so loosing €400.00 of my hard earned cash annoyed me but if someone had been injured or raped well thats a scary thought I would not want to sit back and let this go by without raising my concerns and wanting better service for my ticket price!!

Former Former

MJohnston wrote: »

So what's your point? Where did anyone say that they think this will happen in 2018 or absolutely must? I certainly think its very possible for them to do this for next year, but you're arguing with a point nobody made, seemingly just to argue!

I said "Since campervan tickets have already gone on sale, I can't see any changes happening for next year." and you said:

"Why would they? All they've done so far is take people's money. They don't send out the passes until about 2 weeks before the festival, and can easily update their policies in the intermediate period."

So I'm arguing with the point YOU made.

MJohnston wrote: »

As already stated, I think most people would be happy with this in return for actual security in the campsite. And, you're the one arbitrarily saying it will only be four guests, I think 6 would be fine myself.

But six is arbitrary as four. It's still a fundamental change to the product. This is only feasible on a pay-per-person basis.

MJohnston wrote: »

That's just pedantic - Joplin has it's own much larger set of toilets that are closer to the east end of the campsite, and is also really close to the large set of toilets at the top corner of the Warhol campsite. There's no real reason why Joplin campers need to use those 6 or so portaloos that are essentially all that the campervan site has as facilities (there are 6 more way further into an overflow section).
I'm highlighting it as a problem because (a) it shows how easily people not in campervans are able to access the campervan site and (b) if you saw the state of those portaloos at various points in the weekend, you'd know there were way too few of them.

Again, this is all fine. But if you want a premium service, you pay a premium price.

Seathrun66

Simona1986 wrote: »

I would much prefer extra toilet facilites which are better maintained in the campervan site than having restricted access. All that has to happen is for one scumbag to get a campervan band and all the extra effort could be in vain. They were letting people stay in cattle trailers and unconverted vans again this year, which are easy enough for a bunch of thieving wannabes to organise for themselves to have unrestricted access to the campervan site, which would be all the more valuable to them if people were more-lax about security due to having the restricted access. No-one in a tent has any secure storage and they get by managing their valuables over the weekend, we should do the same.

The tents themselves are of minimal value. The campervans are not. Damage to the latter would make for a very costly (and unenjoyable) experience.

MJohnston

Former Former wrote: »

I said "Since campervan tickets have already gone on sale, I can't see any changes happening for next year." and you said:

"Why would they? All they've done so far is take people's money. They don't send out the passes until about 2 weeks before the festival, and can easily update their policies in the intermediate period."

So I'm arguing with the point YOU made.

But they still could - are you arguing that somehow they're incapable of making these changes now that the tickets are sold? Sure, I'd agree that the fact that they're all sold makes them less likely to actually care, but they're still fully capable of making changes.

But six is arbitrary as four. It's still a fundamental change to the product. This is only feasible on a pay-per-person basis.

Again, this is all fine. But if you want a premium service, you pay a premium price.

Nah, I really don't agree it's fundamental - the terms and conditions for the campervan passes aren't announced until you receive your pass just before the festival, and there are easily ways to make exceptions for 2018 in the unlikely event someone wants more than 6 people to accompany them.

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on premium pricing - I think €75 for zero service already is premium pricing, you don't.

Thundercats Ho

Premium service as in comfy toilets and a proper wristbanded entrance come at a premium price....

(it doesn't, it's free in the Eco campsite).

https://www.electricpicnic.ie/news/future-electric-go-eco-electric-picnic-2017

nc6000

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

How much extra are people in Eco charged for their facilities and security? Do they get an extra wristband?

There was no charge for the Eco campsite and yes there was an extra wristband which was checked each time we went into the campsite.

nc6000

Thundercats Ho wrote: »

Premium service as in comfy toilets and a proper wristbanded entrance come at a premium price....

(it doesn't, it's free in the Eco campsite).

https://www.electricpicnic.ie/news/future-electric-go-eco-electric-picnic-2017

The toilets in the Eco campsite weren't free. They cost us €15 per person for the weekend.

MJohnston

nc6000 wrote: »

The toilets in the Eco campsite weren't free. They cost us €15 per person for the weekend.

The eco campsite discount for the fancy toilets is a free one though!

nc6000

MJohnston wrote: »

The eco campsite discount for the fancy toilets is a free one though!

Staying in the Eco campsite and access to good toilets only cost me €15 for the weekend which was quite a bargain.

MJohnston

nc6000 wrote: »

Staying in the Eco campsite and access to good toilets only cost me €15 for the weekend which was quite a bargain.

Yep, it was €35 for the rest of us!

Former Former

MJohnston wrote: »

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on premium pricing - I think €75 for zero service already is premium pricing, you don't.

Meh, the campervan field is a lot less crowded than the other fields, there's a cost associated with that, and you don't have to haul your stuff across a load of fields, you just drive right in. Is that worth €75? I don't know.

However, in your proposed model, €75 between six people is not a premium price at all, it's €12.50 a head for all the above, plus more facilities and more security. It's not viable.

So you would need to charge more, and that's really my only point. This is all eminently sensible and possible but it has to be paid for.

nc6000

MJohnston wrote: »

Yep, it was €35 for the rest of us!

What cost you €35? Do you mean access to the other Loowatts?

MJohnston

Former Former wrote: »

Meh, the campervan field is a lot less crowded than the other fields, there's a cost associated with that, and you don't have to haul your stuff across a load of fields, you just drive right in. Is that worth €75? I don't know.

However, in your proposed model, €75 between six people is not a premium price at all, it's €12.50 a head for all the above, plus more facilities and more security. It's not viable.

So you would need to charge more, and that's really my only point. This is all eminently sensible and possible but it has to be paid for.

No, it really really doesn't. I'm sorry, but nothing you have listed there is worth €10, let alone €75. We're already paying the general ticket prices too remember, so we would definitely take up some space in the campsites that we're freeing up by using the campervans. And the campervan site always requires significantly less cleanup afterwards (comparable to the Eco campsite actually).

They currently provide nothing for our campervan pass money, and it's entirely viable that they could start doing so.

MJohnston

nc6000 wrote: »

What cost you €35? Do you mean access to the other Loowatts?

Yeah, the regular price for a Loowatts weekend pass was €35, so Eco campsite people got a €20 discount.

Seathrun66

Former Former wrote: »

MJohnston wrote: »

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on premium pricing - I think €75 for zero service already is premium pricing, you don't.

Meh, the campervan field is a lot less crowded than the other fields, there's a cost associated with that, and you don't have to haul your stuff across a load of fields, you just drive right in. Is that worth €75? I don't know.

However, in your proposed model, €75 between six people is not a premium price at all, it's €12.50 a head for all the above, plus more facilities and more security. It's not viable.

So you would need to charge more, and that's really my only point. This is all eminently sensible and possible but it has to be paid for.

It would be a maximum of six people. Pals who've stayed in campervans have been two to four people to a vehicle.

The campervan users aren't asking for much, just a little extra security given what occurred two weeks ago. Particularly given the value of the transport.

There's sufficient security onsite to divert a couple of people to the field. It's in the interest of Festival Republic to avoid further bad publicity and there's sufficient time to put things in place by next September. I, for one, am willing to write to FR to support those asking for increased security.

Alkers

davew121 wrote: »

Take the valuables out of it, this low life got inside numerous caravans early hours Saturday with people asleep in a number of them, I doubt he was doing this unarmed in case he was cornered and he was inside one across from me where he was confronted by a 20 year old female so loosing €400.00 of my hard earned cash annoyed me but if someone had been injured or raped well thats a scary thought I would not want to sit back and let this go by without raising my concerns and wanting better service for my ticket price!!

But he could just as easilly come in a campervan next year, then the extra wristband is of no value whatsoever.

bodhrandude

Did anyone hear about the trees collapsing onto two tents on Saturday night in the Hendrix campsite, got a text from a mate the Monday after saying that happened, luckily there was no one in both tents at the time.

Seathrun66

Simona1986 wrote: »

davew121 wrote: »

Take the valuables out of it, this low life got inside numerous caravans early hours Saturday with people asleep in a number of them, I doubt he was doing this unarmed in case he was cornered and he was inside one across from me where he was confronted by a 20 year old female so loosing €400.00 of my hard earned cash annoyed me but if someone had been injured or raped well thats a scary thought I would not want to sit back and let this go by without raising my concerns and wanting better service for my ticket price!!

But he could just as easilly come in a campervan next year, then the extra wristband is of no value whatsoever.

I'd wager the thief or thieves from this year were organised and from outside the site. 

But if he came from inside the site in 2018 and our suggestions were followed (named wristband users, including visitors) then the list of suspects would be hugely narrowed down.

MJohnston

Simona1986 wrote: »

But he could just as easilly come in a campervan next year, then the extra wristband is of no value whatsoever.

The first part of your sentence doesn't really back up the second part - sure, dodgy people could be already in the campervan site, but the extra wristband would still provide security value. The campervan site could probably do with extra security presence in the actual site too, not just at the entrance (similar to how there are permanent security presences throughout the regular campsites).