Electric Picnic 2017 **Discussion Only // No Ticket Sales**

BullBlackNova

Thoroughly enjoying this education into electronic music, lads.
Always enjoy listening but rarely know where to start.

My morning has been a loop (heh) of Kiasmos and Floating Points. Any more tips (on or off the line-up!)?

Paleblood

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Ableton Live (thats what the software is called) is not generally used like that at all.

Ableton has a view called the "Session View" and this is why it is so popular for live performances. From the session view you can trigger individual "clips" which consist of a sequence of notes on one track (like a drum loop for example) or trigger a "scene" (a horizontal row of clips), playing a group of clips. You can trigger clips from other scenes, copy and paste new scenes together on the fly and lots more.

Throw in a midi controller (as almost everyone does) and you can tweak just about anything you want using buttons and rotary knobs, including parameters on one of the currently playing synths, or trigger a scene or a clip or change the speed, etc. This is not anything like a "preconfigured arrangement" but more like a jamming tool for mixing together bits of pre-recorded or pre-sequenced music . When you use this, it very definitely feels like live mixing of your own music and as such the results are different every time. A bit like playing a guitar, no matter how hard you try, its never exactly the same twice.

Do a search on youtube for Ableton session view and you will see how this works.

You can use Ableton pretty much however you like. I've seen whole tracks being played through with the performer simply firing off individual clips on top of it. Also, I've often seen live acts having the full arrangement window open instead of the session view, presumably to play instruments while full pre-configured tracks play in the background. It's very flexible software. I don't think anyone should be making hard and fast statements about how it is or isn't used.

Slobberdawn

ghostdancer wrote: »

Hopkins would probably be around the 3rd scenario, he generally kicks off the bones of the track using samples which mostly play untouched throughout the track, but with him adding some effects on the fly, and then improvises/creates other parts himself on top of those and manipulates them with Kaoss pads.

Ok, so the samples are created/stored in advance of the gig and he sets them off playing with the click of a switch (for want of a better term)?

The effects he adds are another button he presses?

And how do the Kaoss pads work?

MJohnston

Slobberdawn wrote: »

MJohnston, thanks for the reply. Somewhat enlightening although I think I'll always struggle with the "guy behind some equipment" problem regardless of what he's doing.

Korvanica, why are you recommending these in particular in response to my last post?

Do any of you know where Jon Hopkins would fit in in MJohnston's various categories above?

Jon Hopkins did an AMA where he said what his live setup was:

"i have ableton running, controlled by a livid cntrllr, then i have the drums coming into one KP, which then goes straight into another one. i have the bass and riffs coming into a third, then the melodies and atmospheres coming into the fourth. these then all go into the pioneer."

KP would be a Kaoss Pad I believe, which is a specific type of MIDI controller. So basically he'd be the type who is triggering different sections of parts of the music in a fully improvisational style - he'd trigger a particular drum loop on the drum controller, then use another controller to trigger and modify the melodies, then come back to the drum controller and switch the drums slightly, etc etc. Lots of live work to be done.

Paleblood

Slobberdawn wrote: »

And how do the Kaoss pads work?

The quickest answer to that is to check out a video on YouTube. It's an odd piece of equipment. I thought it had died out because it was hard to consistently get the same results from it (with the older models, at least).

PabloAndRoy

MJohnston wrote: »

Hi, you're being a little bit condescending here, but I'll forgive you I've actually used Ableton a lot myself and while there is indeed the possibility to use it for what you say, it definitely has an Arrangement View that allows you to presequence everything.

Im not sure you really read my post though, because I explained that plenty of artists will use the Session View style of performance.

Sorry didn't mean any offence.

Honestly, If someone is using Ableton's arrangement view for live performances, then in my book thats not really a live performance at all, thats just a backing track.

I can understand how some bands might use Ableton in this manner, but if an electronic producer is using it that way, I don't consider that live music at all. That's where i draw the line .. that's just me.

Paleblood

MJohnston wrote: »

Jon Hopkins did an AMA where he said what his live setup was:

"i have ableton running, controlled by a livid cntrllr, then i have the drums coming into one KP, which then goes straight into another one. i have the bass and riffs coming into a third, then the melodies and atmospheres coming into the fourth. these then all go into the pioneer."

KP would be a Kaoss Pad I believe, which is a specific type of MIDI controller. So basically he'd be the type who is triggering different sections of parts of the music in a fully improvisational style - he'd trigger a particular drum loop on the drum controller, then use another controller to trigger and modify the melodies, then come back to the drum controller and switch the drums slightly, etc etc. Lots of live work to be done.

So he's only on a Pioneer 4 channel mixer. It's mad how simple that set up is. But it's the end product that counts and he's no slouch in that regard.

MJohnston

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

Sorry didn't mean any offence.

Honestly, If someone is using Ableton's arrangement view for live performances, then in my book thats not really a live performance at all, thats just a backing track.

I can understand how some bands might use Ableton in this manner, but if an electronic producer is using it that way, I don't consider that live music at all. That's where i draw the line .. that's just me.

Well maybe, but you could have someone using it to pre-arrange the majority of the track except for the keys, and then they're playing those live. Or maybe they are adding their own vocals or whatever. Or a combination of all of those at different times.

Paleblood

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

If someone is using Ableton's arrangement view for live performances, then in my book thats not really a live performance at all

And that's the crux of the issue. There's no standardised way of performing electronic music.

Cubase, Logic, Reason etc. were all used live in the past. Fruity Loops was the tool of choice for early dubstep artists trying to go live!

What do you think people used laptops on stage for before Ableton's session view became popular?

UsedToWait

Someone posted a video (in this forum iirc) showing the Chemical Brothers live set up..
Well worth watching if anyone can dig up a link?

PabloAndRoy

Paleblood wrote: »

And that's the crux of the issue. There's no standardised way of performing electronic music.

Cubase, Logic, Reason etc. were all used live in the past. Fruity Loops was the tool of choice for early dubstep artists trying to go live!

What do you think people used laptops on stage for before Ableton's session view became popular?

I know these were all used in the past and still are. For me, I like the possibility that the tune can go in many different directions depending on the mood (and skills) of the performers. It doesn't really matter what the tools are if that can be achieved.

Orbital have always been a great example of live electronic music for me. I never know what way that tune is gonna go this time around. But it is always different to the last time I heard it. And tomorrow night it will be different again.

At the end of the day, if it makes you smile/dance/cry and it is played live with a passion for music, then its good live music. Tools and techniques are secondary to that.

D.Q

Really starting to warm to the idea of Duran Duran

ghostdancer

I was just listening to their greatest hits, a few tracks there that I didn't know were theirs. I'd check them out if there was nothing else clashing.

Synode

D.Q wrote: »

Really starting to warm to the idea of Duran Duran

Me too. They're before my time but I know and like a good few of their songs. They'll be great on Sunday afternoon if the weather's decent.

D.Q

Synode wrote: »

Me too. They're before my time but I know and like a good few of their songs. They'll be great on Sunday afternoon if the weather's decent.

Sunday night I think!

Some absolute belters in there. Feel good cheese to end the weekend.

everlast75

I rolled my eyes when i saw them first, bit have changed my mind.

My initial reaction I guess was just a reflex...fle..fle..fle..flex

Blackie_IRL

I'm showing my age here but Simon Le Bon was one of my early musical idols (I was under 10) but I can vividly remember watching MTUSA so as I could see the videos to reflex, wild boys, view to a kill etc. Back then Duran Duran were cool as ****. I don't tend to go out of my way to see the heritage acts at EP but this will be unmissable. I'm still expecting a couple more modern headline acts, such as Foals or Kasabian, and I think it will push Duran Duran and ATCQ into the sub-slot similar to New Order last year.

Slobberdawn

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

I know these were all used in the past and still are. For me, I like the possibility that the tune can go in many different directions depending on the mood (and skills) of the performers. It doesn't really matter what the tools are if that can be achieved.

Orbital have always been a great example of live electronic music for me. I never know what way that tune is gonna go this time around. But it is always different to the last time I heard it. And tomorrow night it will be different again.

At the end of the day, if it makes you smile/dance/cry and it is played live with a passion for music, then its good live music. Tools and techniques are secondary to that.

I like the possibility that a tune can go wrong if the artist(s) do the wrong thing on stage. Is that possible with electronic music?

Another question (this needs its own thread) for you guys on this topic. Given that you all have an idea of what these artists do on stage and how it seems to matter to you, does it not bother you that you're sort of taking the artists' word for it? What I mean is, the DJ could have it all pre-recorded but because, as a spectacle, it's just one guy throwing shapes behind a desk, does it really matter what he's doing?

ghostdancer

Blackie_IRL wrote: »

I'm showing my age here but Simon Le Bon was one of my early musical idols (I was under 10) but I can vividly remember watching MTUSA so as I could see the videos to reflex, wild boys, view to a kill etc. Back then Duran Duran were cool as ****. I don't tend to go out of my way to see the heritage acts at EP but this will be unmissable. I'm still expecting a couple more modern headline acts, such as Foals or Kasabian, and I think it will push Duran Duran and ATCQ into the sub-slot similar to New Order last year.

the press release specifically says that ATCQ and Duran Duran are headlining the Saturday and Sunday nights. there's only sub-headliners from now on.
New Order were never headliners, LDR was always the headliner.

Slobberdawn

ghostdancer wrote: »

the press release specifically says that ATCQ and Duran Duran are headlining the Saturday and Sunday nights. there's only sub-headliners from now on.
New Order were never headliners, LDR was always the headliner.

But wasn't LDR pushed down the playing order, so his point still stands, sort of?

Spaceshanty

The new Soulwax album (out today) is sounding top notch, looking forward to seeing this 'live' ðŸ‘

UsedToWait

I know it's slightly against the rules of the forum, but just wanted to give the regulars here a head-start in case anyone is needing tickets..

I'll be listing 2 x 3picnic loyalty tickets plus a Pink Moon reservation for the 2 man 'super spacious tipi' on Toutless soon (selling as a package, won't split)..

Anyone interested, PM me, and I'll give the first person a heads up when I list them..

PabloAndRoy

Slobberdawn wrote: »

I like the possibility that a tune can go wrong if the artist(s) do the wrong thing on stage. Is that possible with electronic music?

It most certainly is possible.

Another question (this needs its own thread) for you guys on this topic. Given that you all have an idea of what these artists do on stage and how it seems to matter to you, does it not bother you that you're sort of taking the artists' word for it? What I mean is, the DJ could have it all pre-recorded but because, as a spectacle, it's just one guy throwing shapes behind a desk, does it really matter what he's doing?

You mean that The Chemical Brothers might have been miming all along?

ghostdancer

Slobberdawn wrote: »

But wasn't LDR pushed down the playing order, so his point still stands, sort of?

she played last according to the times?

Slobberdawn

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

It most certainly is possible.



You mean that The Chemical Brothers might have been miming all along?

Is miming a word you can use? Well if any of them just pressed a button and bopped around. The fact that you can't actually see what they're at, does it matter what they're doing?

If a band stands there with their guitars and don't play them while the sound comes out I'd be pretty pissed off. If the sound was so perfect that it had to be a recording rather than a live performance then I'd know and also be pissed off.

Does apply to electronic ceoil?

Slobberdawn

ghostdancer wrote: »

she played last according to the times?

Oh did she? Disregard so.

room_149

Any comments on this?

EARLY ENTRY PASSES
Early Entry passes are only valid with a Weekend Camping Ticket. They allow access into the general camspites, boutique campsite and Pink Moon/PodPads campsites from 4pm Thursday, 31st August 2017 for those wishing to set up camp early. They are not valid with Family Weekend Camping Tickets as this campsite does not open until Friday, 1st September 2017.

You will not be admitted entry to the general campsites on Thursday, 31st August 2017 if you do not have an Early Entry Pass and a Weekend Camping Ticket.

This could be done for free at Oxygen & Feile bitd.

team_actimel

room_149 wrote: »

Any comments on this?


This could be done for free at Oxygen & Feile bitd.

I'm definitely getting one. An extra day at EP - yes, please!

I wonder will there be any music on that night, like something on in Salty Dog? Or will it be just campsite fun? :cool:

ghostdancer

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Is miming a word you can use? Well if any of them just pressed a button and bopped around. The fact that you can't actually see what they're at, does it matter what they're doing?

If a band stands there with their guitars and don't play them while the sound comes out I'd be pretty pissed off. If the sound was so perfect that it had to be a recording rather than a live performance then I'd know and also be pissed off.

Does apply to electronic ceoil?

would you? If Muse recorded their instruments on the first gig of their tour, then went out every night and played along to the recording, i'd be pretty certain 99% of people wouldn't have a clue, especially half-drunk in a field in the dark.

U2 used to have a 5th person offstage on a previous tour doing keyboards and supplementary instruments (quite probably still do), and i'd say almost no-one knew about it them.

Slobberdawn

ghostdancer wrote: »

would you? If Muse recorded their instruments on the first gig of their tour, then went out every night and played along to the recording, i'd be pretty certain 99% of people wouldn't have a clue, especially half-drunk in a field in the dark.

U2 used to have a 5th person offstage on a previous tour doing keyboards and supplementary instruments (quite probably still do), and i'd say almost no-one knew about it them.

Never thought about the recording being live, I meant if it was the album version.

Still though, I think I'd know. Maybe if it was a headline act and I was way back. But in a small gig where I'd know the band I'd know, and God would know:D