2016 NFL Season Week 1 Thread

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Now - let me be clear - I am against helmet on helmet hits - and in my opinion all such hits should be automatically penalised. What I object to here is the unfounded assertion that the Broncos targeted Newton with helmet to helmet hits on purpose with the intent of hurting him.

If this was true then why are you making excuses for the hits by blaming Newton and also saying they never lead with their heads?

Are you now saying that in both cases that Stewart and Marshall should have been flagged for helmet to helmet hits? But they didn't do it with the intention to hurt Newton?

Whether they targeted him or not they were 100% helmet to helmet hits where the player lead with his crown and left his feet.

paulie21

God roll on tomorrow night so we can forget about Thursday's game

Diarmuid1995

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The helmet on helmet hits were the result of circumstances - not with intent


And I have absolutely no problem with any helmet on helmet hit being flagged.


Where he was located is not relevant - by your logic it would not be legal to hit a running back behind the LOS or sack a QB. Newton runs all the time - he ran it 11 times against the Broncos for 54 yards - that's almost a 5 yd average. If you let any player run that amount of times for 5 yards a pop then you will end up in trouble.

The Miller hit was a sack when Miller was attempting to strip the ball - the contact was incidental and just as much on Newton as Miller as he was trying to spin out of the tackle. On both other occasions Newton was on the run and pulled up to dump off the ball - if Stewart or Marshall hadn't been intent of getting to Newton he could very well have kept running and picked up big yardage (particularly in the case of the Marshall hit).


And as I said earlier - you cannot treat Newton as a run of the mill QB - he is bigger, stronger and more athletic than any other QB in the NFL (possibly ever in the NFL). If you play him like a normal QB then you will get beat. The only way to play Newton is to treat him like a RB and react accordingly.


And yet the Broncos D have been penalised in the wrong probably more than any other team in the NFL - the facemask penalty on Harris was a prime example (Harris did grab the facemask but only after his own facemask was pulled) and on a 4 and 22 should have had offsetting penalties instead of an automatic first down for the Panthers.


The Panthers are a damned good team - Newton is a freak of nature and exciting to watch - and the Panthers are going to win a lot of games this season.

Now - let me be clear - I am against helmet on helmet hits - and in my opinion all such hits should be automatically penalised. What I object to here is the unfounded assertion that the Broncos targeted Newton with helmet to helmet hits on purpose with the intent of hurting him.

I have a problem with him being treated differently to other QBs, like saying Adrian Peterson is a better back than for example Chris Ivory so Peterson should be made wear weights in his uniform to even out the playing field. He's not treated as a regular mobile QB even.
Don't watch as much of the broncos as I'd imagine you do but from what I've seen that secondary gets a bad name from Talib (well deserved in his case I might add).
As regards the targeting it's a very fine line between letting the qb know you're there with legal hits after the ball has left his hands, like they did to Tom Brady in last years AFC game and what ended up happening Thursday.

Great to have the game back though for another season, if Thursday night was anything to go on we're in for a good year

Foxtrol

We all know if Siemian took those hits the story would be totally different, sure when people shout at Broncos players it's disgraceful behaviour but no problem making excuses for repeated dangerous head shots to a QB (apparently it's his own fault). No matter how clearly you explain JRG wont take off the blinkers

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

If this was true then why are you making excuses for the hits by blaming Newton and also saying they never lead with their heads?

You claim I am blaming Newton - but I never blamed Newton. Newton can do things no other QB can and on both hits by Stewart and Marshall Newton was running and pulled up and tossed the ball. Every other QB in the NFL would have gone down and protected themselves - Newton tried to make the play and got hit.

Are you now saying that in both cases that Stewart and Marshall should have been flagged for helmet to helmet hits? But they didn't do it with the intention to hurt Newton?

I am in favour of flagging all helmet on helmet hits because I believe is the best way of ensuring players do not engage in intentional hits on opponents and at least affords some protection to players. That does not mean that I regard all or most helmet hits as intentional.

Whether they targeted him or not they were 100% helmet to helmet hits where the player lead with his crown and left his feet.

That is your interpretation of what happened - it's is not mine. And it wasn't the views of the referees either.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You claim I am blaming Newton - but I never blamed Newton. Newton can do things no other QB can and on both hits by Stewart and Marshall Newton was running and pulled up and tossed the ball. Every other QB in the NFL would have gone down and protected themselves - Newton tried to make the play and got hit.

I am not blaming Newton but I am blaming Newton. haha classic

I am in favour of flagging all helmet on helmet hits because I believe is the best way of ensuring players do not engage in intentional hits on opponents and at least affords some protection to players. That does not mean that I regard all or most helmet hits as intentional.

Oh ok but not when Broncos players do it is what you are really saying. You are confusing the intention to hurt someone and the intention to lead with their head or both.

That is your interpretation of what happened - it's is not mine. And it wasn't the views of the referees either.

Mine and the extremely high majority out there including most experts. I will remember this post if you ever claim a Pats player lead with his head and hit helmet to helmet and the ref misses it I will use your line of defence. Having said that if a Pats players does what Stewart or Marshall does there will be a high chance I will be saying the same thing I said about the Broncos players doing it as there is no excuse in football to be leading with your head anymore.

Lets be clear here though. Whether or not Stewert or Marshall intentionally lead with their heads to hurt someone we will never know. But they 100% intentionally lead with their heads making those hits. The form of the tackle itself tells us that.

UnitedIrishman

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

.
The hits by Stewart and Marshall on Newton on Thursday were as much on Newton as the Broncos

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You claim I am blaming Newton - but I never blamed Newton.

Sorry, what?

Jolly Red Giant

Diarmuid1995 wrote: »

I have a problem with him being treated differently to other QBs, like saying Adrian Peterson is a better back than for example Chris Ivory so Peterson should be made wear weights in his uniform to even out the playing field. He's not treated as a regular mobile QB even.

When coaches put designed running plays into the playbook for the QB and run them on a regular basis during a game then the defence will have not option but to regard the QB as a runner (and Newton is a dangerous runner). If you want to eliminate this then you ban any designed running plays for the QB.

Don't watch as much of the broncos as I'd imagine you do but from what I've seen that secondary gets a bad name from Talib (well deserved in his case I might add).

This is an utter load of bollix - the Broncos secondary are elite, play aggressively and are not liked by opposing players and fans. Talib has done some bonehead things - but the only thing he has done since joining the Broncos that I can recall was poking an opponent in the eye - something which I condemned on here and something which he was rightly penalised for.

However, the Broncos secondary are repeatedly penalised in the wrong. Talib was flagged for a hit on the QB in the last pre season game when the hit was absolutely legitimate. There were at least three separate penalties against the Broncos secondary wrongly called on Thursday - two for defensive holding when the Panthers receivers were pushing off and the facemask against Harris on the 4 and 22 (which was a facemask but should have been offsetting because the Panther grabbed the facemask of Harris first).

I watched the game again this evening and noticed several occasions that Remmers dished out late hits on Broncos defenders (I counted four) including ploughing straight into Chris Harris when he was lying on the ground after the INT about three seconds after another Panther did exactly the same thing and was flagged for a personal foul.

As regards the targeting it's a very fine line between letting the qb know you're there with legal hits after the ball has left his hands, like they did to Tom Brady in last years AFC game and what ended up happening Thursday.

More bollix - expecting an elite athlete going at top speed trying to get to the QB to be able to put out of a hit in a fraction of a second is expecting the impossible. NFL players, particularly on defence are getting stronger, faster and more athletic (there is a marked difference since I started following the NFL more than 30 years ago). It is a game that is physical, where people have to wear helmets and when many many players get hurt. The vast majority of players are honest and do the best they can - but that doesn't mean in the NFL that players don't play aggressively (if they don't they are out of a job.

Great to have the game back though for another season, if Thursday night was anything to go on we're in for a good year

You are right - it was a really good game - and both these teams are going to win games this season (and I wouldn't be surprised if Newton was the MVP again).

Jolly Red Giant

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Sorry, what?

Try reading the stuff I wrote rather than just shooting from the hip.

Nobody was to blame - Newton was trying to make plays and the Broncos were trying to stop him. Most other QBs would have gone down and taken the sack - Newton tried to make the play.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But they 100% intentionally lead with their heads making those hits. The form of the tackle itself tells us that.

Neither led with their heads - Stewart led with his shoulder, Newtown ducked and turned into Stewart that result in the helmet hit. Marshall was attempting to grab a running Newton who pulled up and threw the ball - this resulted in the helmet hit. You can claim that they intentionally led with their heads - I dispute that. If I felt that they had I would be the first to condemn it - and I have condemned Broncos players in the past.

There are many times when players do lead with the helmet - it is a lot less frequent than it used to be. In fact many such hits tend to come from safeties on running backs. The reality is that Newton is more prone to helmet on helmet hits than any other QB (and many other players) because of the way he plays the game.

And I have already addressed the issue of why I am in favour of all helmet on helmet hits being flagged (and it has nothing to do with intent or leading with the head)

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Try reading the stuff I wrote rather than just shooting from the hip.

Nobody was to blame - Newton was trying to make plays and the Broncos were trying to stop him. Most other QBs would have gone down and taken the sack - Newton tried to make the play.

You blamed Newton simple as and as always you try back out of it by saying you didn't. You really should read what you write.

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Neither led with their heads - Stewart led with his shoulder, Newtown ducked and turned into Stewart that result in the helmet hit. Marshall was attempting to grab a running Newton who pulled up and threw the ball - this resulted in the helmet hit. You can claim that they intentionally led with their heads - I dispute that. If I felt that they had I would be the first to condemn it - and I have condemned Broncos players in the past.

There are many times when players do lead with the helmet - it is a lot less frequent than it used to be. In fact many such hits tend to come from safeties on running backs. The reality is that Newton is more prone to helmet on helmet hits than any other QB (and many other players) because of the way he plays the game.

And I have already addressed the issue of why I am in favour of all helmet on helmet hits being flagged (and it has nothing to do with intent or leading with the head)

Your truly are living in a fantasy world and it doesn't surprise me in the slightest you can see past anything a Broncos player did wrong even though the evidence is right in front of you and everybody but Broncos fans it seems can see both lead with their heads and hit helmet to helmet. Keep fighting the good fight Walter.

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

You blamed Newton simple as and as always you try back out of it by saying you didn't. You really should read what you write.




Your truly are living in a fantasy world and it doesn't surprise me in the slightest you can see past anything a Broncos player did wrong even though the evidence is right in front of you and everybody but Broncos fans it seems can see both lead with their heads and hit helmet to helmet. Keep fighting the good fight Walter.

Yada yada - and the fact that someone is willing to point out what actually happened, what the Broncos were attempting to do and what Newton did, makes for an easily dismissive comment.

But hay-ho - life goes on - and the Broncos will play the Colts next week - Luck will be pounded all over the field (I am sure he will take the sacks rather that try and make the plays) - and I am sure you'll be back next week telling everyone how dirty the Broncos are and they are just out to hurt people.

Realt Dearg Sec

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Yada yada - and the fact that someone is willing to point out what actually happened, what the Broncos were attempting to do and what Newton did, makes for an easily dismissive comment.

But hay-ho - life goes on - and the Broncos will play the Colts next week - Luck will be pounded all over the field (I am sure he will take the sacks rather that try and make the plays) - and I am sure you'll be back next week telling everyone how dirty the Broncos are and they are just out to hurt people.

Believe it or not, people don't actually care as much as you think about the broncos.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Yada yada - and the fact that someone is willing to point out what actually happened, what the Broncos were attempting to do and what Newton did, makes for an easily dismissive comment.

You were wrong on all accounts though but hey keep on trucking Walter. Absolutely hilarious threads when you post these days.

and I am sure you'll be back next week telling everyone how dirty the Broncos are and they are just out to hurt people.

Even funnier. I never said the Broncos were dirty or out to hurt people. In fact I never said Marshall or Stewart were dirty either. All I brought up was tackles they made. But hey once again making things up in that fantasy world of yours. You crack me up these days.

Jolly Red Giant

I have just been reading that Derek Wolfe has accused Trai Turner of hitting him several times after the end of plays during the game. Wolfe accused Turner of grabbing his facemask and throwing him into a crowd of players after the whistle was blown (resulting in an ankle injury) and that Turner used his helmet spear Wolfe on the back of his neck while he was lying on the ground several seconds after the whistle had gone. This spearing resulted in Wolfe having to leave the field and missed a lot of the fourth quarter. Wolfe has claimed that the Panthers OL repeatedly grabbed the facemasks of Broncos defenders during the game.

TOss Sweep

Ah the good auld trying to deflect away from people calling your team dirty by throwing the accusation the other way.

You do you know how impossible it is to stop something happening in the trenches thought right? Also how impossible it is for Refs to see it because they follow the ball. Unless they leave a camera or extra ref 100% focused on the trenches cheap shots by linemen will always happen. There is not a defensive or offensive linemen in the country that can say they have never taken a cheap shot at one point in their career. Doesn't make it right but it happens. And if you honestly think Broncos linemen are not doing the same things you are sadly mistaken. If they have video of it I am sure the NFL will review it and throw out fines if it actaully happened etc etc

Any evidence of said incidents?

Jolly Red Giant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Ah the good auld trying to deflect away from people calling your team dirty by throwing the accusation the other way.

Two sides to every story

TOss Sweep wrote: »

You do you know how impossible it is to stop something happening in the trenches thought right? Also how impossible it is for Refs to see it because they follow the ball. Unless they leave a camera or extra ref 100% focused on the trenches cheap shots by linemen will always happen. There is not a defensive or offensive linemen in the country that can say they have never taken a cheap shot at one point in their career. Doesn't make it right but it happens. And if you honestly think Broncos linemen are not doing the same things you are sadly mistaken. If they have video of it I am sure the NFL will review it and throw out fines if it actaully happened etc etc

So you are saying that cheap shots happen in the trenches but that is okay because everyone does it - but somehow a QB should be treated differently.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Any evidence of said incidents?

Vn Miller's facemask was grabbed and pulled to stop him getting to the QB during the play when Newton passed for the Panthers TD in the first quarter.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Believe it or not, people don't actually care as much as you think about the broncos.

I couldn't care less about what people think of the Broncos. The Broncos / Panthers game is a topic for discussion because it was the only game played so far. I am sure there will be plenty of discussion about the other 30 teams tonight and tomorrow.

Next week I will be back to comment about the Broncos / Colts game.

GoldFour4

Looking forward to the games this evening. Obviously sickened about how Newton was treated on Thursday but not even going to bother arguing with some of the people on here about what were clearly penalties.

Looking forward to siting back this evening with redzone on sky sports mix and gamepass on the laptop.

jack presley

malistheman wrote: »

Looking forward to siting back this evening with redzone on sky sports mix and gamepass on the laptop.

Just be aware that the laptop's going to be behind the TV so stuff will show up on RedZone before it happens in the game you're watching on GamePass on the laptop.

Paully D

Really looking forward to this evening.

I love the dark, cold, winter Sunday evenings with a roaring fire going and spending all evening and night watching NFL.

It will be interesting to see how things pan out. There's always so many surprises. Imagine if someone had told you this time last year that the Ravens would finish 5-11, the Cowboys would finish bottom of their division with a 4-12 record, the Redskins would win their division with Kirk Cousins at the helm while Chip Kelly's offense would flop completely, Peyton Manning would get dropped halfway through the season and Andrew Luck would end up one of the worst rated QB's in the league during the time he's on the field as the Colts fail to win the AFC South.

poldebruin

...and not just Sundays, Monday nights, Tuesday mornings and Thursday evenings just got more interesting, not to mention the associated podcasts that come out during the week (although I thought Grantland's was the best of the bunch and that is no more)

Paully D wrote: »

Really looking forward to this evening.
It will be interesting to see how things pan out. There's always so many surprises. Imagine if someone had told you this time last year that the Ravens would finish 5-11, the Cowboys would finish bottom of their division with a 4-12 record, the Redskins would win their division with Kirk Cousins at the helm while Chip Kelly's offense would flop completely, Peyton Manning would get dropped halfway through the season and Andrew Luck would end up one of the worst rated QB's in the league during the time he's on the field as the Colts fail to win the AFC South.

....every chance you have just predicted exactly what will happen this year too (Manning excepted)

jack presley

poldebruin wrote: »

not to mention the associated podcasts that come out during the week (although I thought Grantland's was the best of the bunch and that is no more)

Have you tried the Ringer? It's by Bill Simmons' as well although I don't know if it's by the same lads who worked for him at Grantland.

I like the MMQB podcasts myself. There's 3 different ones now that launched this week so I'm interested in giving them a shot.

poldebruin

I've been giving the Robert Mayes podcast a go, but it's still not as good as the one him and Bill Barnwell had imo, similarly the Bill Barnwell show is nowhere near as entertaining without Mayes.

I always listen to Bill Simmons and cousin SAl, but more for entertainment than analysys, and the Patriots/Cowboys bent is a little annoying (and the fact that he openly dilikes the Broncos - I mean what's not to love?)

A great listen on a Monday with an NFL slant is the Bill Burr podcast (nsfw) comedian and die hard pats fan, but very entertaining to listen to him talk about football. The guy is prodigious at putting out content, all adlibbed and on the fly, and usually quite funny - definitely check it out. He recorded one podcast as he was watching the week 12 game from last year when Osweiler brought the Broncos back against the Patriots and it is comedy gold - I'd imagine even Pats fans would enjoy as he is articulating everything you would be thinking yourself as it unfolds.

Mike and Mike is trash as is Dave Dameshuk, hate Peter King's style (I mean really hate it) and also dislike the PFF podcast while Rich Eisen was good, but now it seems very samey, and a bit too cosy. - so any recommendations for a good NFL podcast would be appreciated.

the baby bull elephant

Really hopeful for a Lions win today. I know a lot of people early in the thread picked the Colts but with their banged up secondary, lack of a pass rush and poor oline missing its best piece we really should be winning this if we have any aspirations for this season.

Jolly Red Giant

poldebruin suggested I post this link on here -

All 22 breakdown of Anderson and the Broncos running game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJFcPE5dteU

jack presley

What the hell is going on with RGIII's hair?

http://deadspin.com/rgiii-debuts-new-gameday-look-for-fashion-week-1786496908

poldebruin

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

poldebruin suggested I post this link on here -

All 22 breakdown of Anderson and the Broncos running game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJFcPE5dteU

I was just saying how great it would be to have a pregame/halftime/post game show that featured this type of stuff, instead of the bromancey, hanging with my buds, hot take stuff we are subjected to on a lot of the american shows.

BKWDR

After months of watching rolling news on NFL network and ads for that military grade flashlight that gives you epilepsy , great to have NFL redzone sunday back ...something to actually talk about now instead of who is on drugs, who maybe knew that a ball might be not inflated , who didn't hit whos pregnant partner...

NFL SUNDAY IS BACK .... WOOP WOOP

TheDoctor

Beer in the fridge, food ready.

Oh NFL Sundays how I've missed you

jack presley

What's the story with ads on RedZone on Sky Sports Mix do we know? If they're going to have them I'll watch on Gamepass and put up with the minute or two delay but then Twitter has to get turned off.

Son Of A Vidic

Tiring the way Sky and the NFL are desperately trying to turn the Jags into a London team.

phatkev

jack presley wrote: »

What's the story with ads on RedZone on Sky Sports Mix do we know? If they're going to have them I'll watch on Gamepass and put up with the minute or two delay but then Twitter has to get turned off.

its starting on sky sports mix there now

BoJack Horseman

Scott Hanson, how I've missed you.

Junior D

Could anybody point me in the right direction to watch Browns @Texans?

jack presley

Junior D wrote: »

Could anybody point me in the right direction to watch Browns @Texans?

Browns Eagles?

Itssoeasy

Just watched the anthem in Philly. That guy playing the trumpet has a pair of lungs on him. Good man.

That_Guy

God bless NFL Redzone.

Junior D

jack presley wrote: »

Browns Eagles?

Sorry, Bears @Texans. It's been a long day

jack presley

I hate that surface in NO. It's hard on the eyes.

BoJack Horseman

jack presley wrote: »

I hate that surface in NO. It's hard on the eyes.

It looks like permafrost.

thomond2006

Osweiler's first drive ends in a Tracy Porter interception.

That_Guy

Saints are bad.
Oakland are... good??

EDIT: Maybe not.

That_Guy

Carson Wentz with a nice opening drive and TD.

Pyjamarama

Great drive from the Eagles. Wentz looking good against the worst D in the league.

Itssoeasy

Well I'll take that for the start of the Carson Wentz era.

Itssoeasy

No pressure RGIII now.

ScrubsfanChris

Could Sky have picked someone with a worse voice to host? It makes me wince.

Where's Cadle?

thomond2006

Bears TD, Langford rush.

Alshon Jeffery played a big part in the drive.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

phatkev

Jets just moved down the field with relative ease, 7 up against the bengals