Stopping on motorway hard shoulder?

Car99

Is it legal to stop on an Irish motorway hard shoulder for anything other than a breakdown?

I lived and travelled all over Europe and UK over the years and nowhere have I seen people stopping on a motorway hard should for any reason except a breakdown because
A. Its illegal and
B. Its a bloody dangerous place to be.

Yet in ireland people stop for anything from taking a pee to answering the phone or just to stretch the legs!

In the uk if you break down even no matter what the weather , you park your car with hazards on and get out and climb up the embankment for your own safety and to avoid prosecution.

People need educating on the dangers

What is the law in Ireland regarding stopping on a motorway?

D3V!L

Car99 wrote: »

Is it legal to stop on an Irish motorway hard shoulder for anything other than a breakdown?

I lived and travelled all over Europe and UK over the years and nowhere have I seen people stopping on a motorway hard should for any reason except a breakdown because
A. Its illegal and
B. Its a bloody dangerous place to be.

Yet in ireland people stop for anything from taking a pee to answering the phone or just to stretch the legs!

In the uk if you break down even no matter what the weather , you park your car with hazards on and get out and climb up the embankment for your own safety and to avoid prosecution.

People need educating on the dangers

What is the law in Ireland regarding stopping on a motorway?

Its the same but like any laws in Ireland they are ignored and not enforced.

GustavoFring

It's illegal and idiotic. A woman was killed yesterday on the M8 from doing just that. How someone thinks it's a smart thing to do is beyond me.

Markcheese

And we also have motorway standard dual carriageway.. they've motorway speedlimits, but not motorway rules ...

Alun

Markcheese wrote: »

And we also have motorway standard dual carriageway.. they've motorway speedlimits, but not motorway rules ...

I agree, it's both illegal and dangerous to stop on a motorway HS, but apparently is neither of these when a yellow line is dashed and not solid, it's nonsense. Come to that, stopping on any HS on 100km/h dual carriageways when there's no real need is only marginally less dangerous, even when it's not explicitly made illegal.

Jimbob1977

Markcheese wrote: »

And we also have motorway standard dual carriageway.. they've motorway speedlimits, but not motorway rules ...

I've never come across a dual carriageway with a 120kmph speed limit. Where did you see it?

I thought the dual carriageways were capped at 100kmph.... like the N7 from Red Cow to Naas

Musketeer4

Ballincollig bypass section of the N40 is 120km/hr dual carriageway.

bear1

A woman was killed yesterday on the M8 after they pulled over for a phone call.
Truck smashed right into them.
I wouldn't stop on the hard shoulder unless there was a good bit of space between me and the carriageway.

Jakey Rolling

Yesterday's accident makes me wonder did the truck encroach on the hard shoulder, or did the collision occur when the car was pulling back out?

Shortly after that stretch of M8 opened I passed a log truck driving half-on the hard shoulder, as he might usually do on the old National road to let people pass. That kind of behaviour reinforced my belief that stopping on the hard shoulder is positively suicidal. That they stopped 500m short of the parking layby makes yesterday's fatality even more sickening.

pajor

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I've never come across a dual carriageway with a 120kmph speed limit. Where did you see it?

I thought the dual carriageways were capped at 100kmph.... like the N7 from Red Cow to Naas

N25 between Cork and Midleton. Also on the other side out to Ballincollig after the south ring.

Pinch Flat

It's illegal, unless you have an emergency. In which case you exit the car and wait behind the crash barrier for assistance.

With the prevalence of day dreaming, texting and general unawareness of Irish drivers, it's extremely dangerous - recent examples include being undertaken by some fool on the m7 a few weeks back who couldn't be ar$ed driving at the slower-than-motorway speed due to road works ahead. Undertook about a dozen cars in the hard shoulder, then popped back onto the motorway. Similarly, I've seen some drivers with two wheels straggling the hard shoulder line, for whatever reason. Reversing up the hard shoulder because they've missed their exit (red cow Saturday week last). Also people who stop to have a natter on the phone, picnic (this is quite common), have a call of nature or have a nap have no idea of the danger they're putting themselves in.

It also goes for people who stop in the hard shoulder then rejoin the motorway - they've no awareness of how fast 120kph plus is, so they kind of pop out into the inner lane like they were leaving the shops.

hi5

A lack of respect for the rules caused by a lack of enforcement.

Alun

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

I've never come across a dual carriageway with a 120kmph speed limit. Where did you see it?

I thought the dual carriageways were capped at 100kmph.... like the N7 from Red Cow to Naas

N1 between Dundalk and the border for one.

theteal

I regularly see people pulled over for "relief" on motorways over here. Not a chance I'd say it's just an Irish problem.

eamonnq

On the M50 last week, car stopped appeared to be broken down, woman on the phone well in on the grass, but a child out near the car. Think I have it on dashcam, will dig it out if I do.

Musketeer4

eamonnq wrote: »

On the M50 last week, car stopped appeared to be broken down, woman on the phone well in on the grass, but a child out near the car. Think I have it on dashcam, will dig it out if I do.

Can't recall the exact instances but I do recall a few times of seeing moronic parents stopped in the HS with kids out of the car for some one of them to go pee. Some people really go full retard. This would have been on the M8 between Cahir and Cork.

Wildly Boaring

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Yesterday's accident makes me wonder did the truck encroach on the hard shoulder, or did the collision occur when the car was pulling back out?

No idea in this instance but very common for trucks to encroach.
Again no idea in this instance but they drive so far at such constant speed and often behind each other that they can zone out a bit.

Often drift over the yellow line on the inside of slight bends too. Look at the amount of catseyes missing on any left hand bend.

Not just truck drivers either

Knine

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

Yesterday's accident makes me wonder did the truck encroach on the hard shoulder, or did the collision occur when the car was pulling back out?

Shortly after that stretch of M8 opened I passed a log truck driving half-on the hard shoulder, as he might usually do on the old National road to let people pass. That kind of behaviour reinforced my belief that stopping on the hard shoulder is positively suicidal. That they stopped 500m short of the parking layby makes yesterday's fatality even more sickening.

On the M8 last week someone pulled out right in front of us, no attempt to match Motorway Speed at all. The mind boggles. Thank God nobody was hogging the middle lane.

I broke down on the way to Galway with a friend.
Pulled into hard shoulder with hazards on and both of us wore hi-viz vests and got over the Armco and still trucks flew by blowing their horns like we could magically lift the car off the hard shoulder.
We both were imagining what could happen had we sat in the car and one of those truckers milled the car.

I can only imagine the truckers weren't paying attention and blew their horns at last minute when they saw a car on hard shoulder with hazards on.

Blazer

Knine wrote: »

On the M8 last week someone pulled out right in front of us, no attempt to match Motorway Speed at all. The mind boggles. Thank God nobody was hogging the middle lane.

Those people are a menace. Especially when joining a motorway at 50kph.
I now have zero patience for those people and blow the ****e of out of them until they get the message and speed up.

Seve OB

You see it all the time, morons, gombeens, fools the lot of them.

But what really gets my goat is when a fuc&1n ejit wants to rejoin the motorway from the hard shoulder, and they do it from a stopped position, sit there and wait for a gap to pull straight out into heavy fast moving traffic....
WTF!!!!!!.....
there is an empty lane in front of you, drive on, build up your speed and then pull out into a gap.

TBH, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the incident yesterday was because of something like this.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Knine

Blazer wrote: »

Those people are a menace. Especially when joining a motorway at 50kph.
I now have zero patience for those people and blow the ****e of out of them until they get the message and speed up.

They were not even doing 50kph or anything like it. They just came out & crawled along. Could have caused a massive pile up. Someone was looking out for us for sure. New car they had too.

kirving

A number of times, cars sitting on the hard shoulder have pulled out in front of me from a standstill.

If at all possible, move into the right lane if you see a car on the hard shoulder as they could very well decide to open the door or drove out.

Knine

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A number of times, cars sitting on the hard shoulder have pulled out in front of me from a standstill.

If at all possible, move into the right lane if you see a car on the hard shoulder as they could very well decide to open the door or drove out.

Absolutely but how often is the middle lane free. These morons should be taken off the roads

razorblunt

This reminds me of an incident I had in the UK years ago, where I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

I was coming into Glasgow (from the East) on that horrible motorway stretch where it becomes 5 lanes. I was in the middle of the 5 going about my business normally.
A truck in front clipped the corner of what was obviously a shattered pallet and it came flying up and lodged in my windscreen shattering it and cracking it.
I somehow managed to get over to the left to the shoulder right where the SOS phone was. Made my call and sat on the back with the OH.

Within 5 minutes this car pulls up, can't be the rescuer van I said that makes no sense, they could see me on the camera and knew I'd need a tow. Anyways with all the room this car still decided to pull up alongside mine and then parallel park in behind it.
Went down to ask then WTF they were doing, parking they said "like you are". Told them I'd crashed and was waiting for a rescue, they thought I was joking. In the end they jumped back in their car and reversed out across two lanes of the motorway after slowly reversing and getting beeped a dozen times before that and me shouting from the bank to stop.
The could have caused a huge pileup that day.

The rescue van came 2 minutes after they left, but they did say they had spotted them and police were coming on further up to them. I have never ever seen such idiocy.

I think I was more shook from that than the actual crash itself.

CiniO

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

I broke down on the way to Galway with a friend.
Pulled into hard shoulder with hazards on and both of us wore hi-viz vests and got over the Armco and still trucks flew by blowing their horns like we could magically lift the car off the hard shoulder.
We both were imagining what could happen had we sat in the car and one of those truckers milled the car.

I can only imagine the truckers weren't paying attention and blew their horns at last minute when they saw a car on hard shoulder with hazards on.

I also usually blow the horn on vehicles on motorway hard shoulder.

Reason for that is 99.9% of those vehicles are people who stopped unnceserily (not due to breakdown) to hopefully if everyone blows the horn on them, they might start thinking they do something wrong.
I know that people who genuinely broke down will be affected as well, but well - can't please everyone.

Also I wouldn't exaggerate in relation to trucks on motorway hitting cars parked on hard shoulder.
Truck only do 90km/h on motorway, same as on any other road really.
On other roads, they pass normal traffic, overtake cyclists and pedestrians, and all seem to work fine. I can't think why would it be different on motorway.

I'm not saying that stopping on motorway is allright. It's very silly.
But generally speaking, I'd be more worried about being killed when parking or walking on regular N or R road then on motorway.

Cienciano

The lack of laybys is a real problem. Obviously doesn't excuse it, but really they should be part of having a road to motorway standard.

Seve OB wrote: »

But what really gets my goat is when a fuc&1n ejit wants to rejoin the motorway from the hard shoulder, and they do it from a stopped position, sit there and wait for a gap to pull straight out into heavy fast moving traffic....
WTF!!!!!!.....
there is an empty lane in front of you, drive on, build up your speed and then pull out into a gap.

I would have thought "no one is stupid enough to actually do that" until it happened to me. I was doing 120kph on the M6 to galway and coming up to a car stopped in the hard shoulder. They went straight out into the left lane without picking up any speed, like they were coming out of their driveway in an estate. Thank fúck I was able to swerve, if it was wet conditions there would probably have been someone killed.

CelticRambler

Pinch Flat wrote: »

With the prevalence of day dreaming, texting and general unawareness of Irish drivers, it's extremely dangerous

They're not exclusively Irish problems, but the stopping for a wee might be. When I'm on Irish motorways, I notice the awful lack of safe places to pull in for a temporary stop (phone, toilet, smack the children, whatever :pac: ) compared to the autoroutes here on the continent. We'd generally have a no-frills layby every 10k on any major cross-country route, including dual carriageways and motorways, and then the full-works services every 30-50km on the motorways.

As for the day-dreaming, I've seen it given as one of the main reasons for vehicles already on the hard shoulder being smashed into. The explanation is that the day-dreaming driver is partially zoned out, especially if the road is relatively free of traffic, sees a car up ahead and assumes it's in the "slow" lane, so aims straight for it almost subconsciously.

The worst thing about yesterday's accident was the women being only 500m from a lay-by where they could have pulled in safely. I think that shows just how obsessive people have become about answering their phones now!

HeidiHeidi

I always, always move into the outer lane if possible if I see a car pulled up in the hard shoulder on a dual carriage way or motorway. No telling what they may or may not do.

I absolutely dread the day (which hopefully never comes) that I have to pull in for some reason.

I agree with others who have noticed the amount of people who appear to have pulled in to have a pee / have a rest / have a little wander around / whatever. They are NUTS. Clearly have no idea of the danger they're putting themselves in.

Having said that, we were world champion pukers when going on holidays en masse as kids - 8 of us and a dog in an estate car :eek: - it was long pre-motorway days so never a problem finding somewhere to pull in - not sure how that works with all the motorway driving these days.....

Seve OB

Cienciano wrote: »

The lack of laybys is a real problem. Obviously doesn't excuse it, but really they should be part of having a road to motorway standard.


I would have thought "no one is stupid enough to actually do that" until it happened to me. I was doing 120kph on the M6 to galway and coming up to a car stopped in the hard shoulder. They went straight out into the left lane without picking up any speed, like they were coming out of their driveway in an estate. Thank fúck I was able to swerve, if it was wet conditions there would probably have been someone killed.

one arseh0le did it to me once, I had just pulled out to overtake someone, old m50 at Tallaght northbound, the moron was coming down the slip onto the m50 with no traffic at all ahead of us. I could see they were going very slow up ahead of me so I stayed in the right lane, closing fast. With no indication and quite clearly not looking at all, they went straight across the 2 lanes into my lane, I had to jam on. Luckily I was watching because it was less than a meter away from a smack. Genuinely reckon they were doing less than 25mph or so. I beeped like mad and I just got flipped the finger from some young one when she moved over to let me pass.

Markcheese

Jimbob1977 wrote:

I've never come across a dual carriageway with a 120kmph speed limit. Where did you see it?

From dunkettle to carrigtowhil, n25
,ballincolig bypass... a few other bits too..

Red Kev

Learnt years ago in Germany that if you ever see a car on the hard shoulder, then move into the next lane, just in case some entitled twat is driving it.

Then in Ireland there's the phenonema of abandoned cars and vans on the motorway hard shoulder, sometimes left for days. That I don't get, nor why it's tolerated. Cars should be picked up, owner verified and given a ban for that.

Move the fcuking thing with breakdown assistance or stay on the N roads.

lollsangel

The worst thing about yesterday's accident was the women being only 500m from a lay-by where they could have pulled in safely. I think that shows just how obsessive people have become about answering their phones now![/quote]

Her newborn daughter was in our lady's in Dublin. She was travelling up to be with her, not being smart but most people in a case like that wI'll anewer their fone immediately!!!!

Wildly Boaring

lollsangel wrote: »

Her newborn daughter was in our lady's in Dublin. She was travelling up to be with her, not being smart but most people in a case like that wI'll anewer their fone immediately!!!!

Agreed

A tragedy without doubt.

No nice way to say this but....there's always an excuse (often very valid) after a traffic incident.
Stopping on a motorway is one of the most dangerous things anyone can do.

BettePorter

lollsangel wrote:

Her newborn daughter was in our lady's in Dublin. She was travelling up to be with her, not being smart but most people in a case like that wI'll anewer their fone immediately!!!!

It wasn't her who was driving. The woman killed was back seat passenger. Why the driver saw the need to pull over whilst someone else took a call will haunt them forever more though. Tragic.

Seve OB

how did yis find all this info out about the crash yesterday
any reports I seen just reported the fatality and left it at that

HeidiHeidi

Seve OB wrote: »

how did yis find all this info out about the crash yesterday
any reports I seen just reported the fatality and left it at that

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/woman-26-on-phone-about-sick-baby-in-hospital-dies-in-car-crash-1.2781267

whiskeyman

A quick search will pull up lots of similar crashes on the HS.
Much of it is attributed to truckers who have been driving for a long time and can often veer into the HS.
Another very valid reason is the phenomenon of 'target fixation', especially at such high speeds.
The driver will lock onto the parked car and unknowing veer towards it - but they should keep focus on the road ahead. Worth checking out videos on it. When you know how things like that work, it really makes you understand it and never park there again.

The tragedy that happened yesterday is just too awful to think about.
That poor family.

Musketeer4

And what pisses me off no-end too is apes who have no concept of maintaining a relatively even speed. They hold the accelerator in the same spot and when they come to a hill they slow way down as if they were in a truck hauling 40 ton of concrete blocks. Same fools hardly ever break 90kph either.

I know this is going to sound terribly ageist but, tbh, it largely holds true - the usual suspects for the above are toothless aul geriatrics driving Mk2 micras, or Tiidas with their face pushed up against the windscreen.

I guess its a case of not being able to teach old dogs these people lived so long with no motorways, the licence "amnesty", drink driving etc and old habits die hard. You see some of them on regular roads taking right turns the old way - pulling into the left while indicating right, then swinging out across both lanes to take the side road. The also usually wait until someone is coming before turning.

Musketeer4

whiskeyman wrote: »

The tragedy that happened yesterday is just too awful to think about.
That poor family.

Yes while it is a tragedy, it doesn't take away from the fact that a significant portion of the blame lies with the driver of said car. At the end of the day, they were a pure ape. No offence but it's true.

Mc Love

This morning coming in the M7 near the junction for the M20 some gombeen in front of me decides to slow down, then indicate and pull into the hard shoulder...he was on his mobile phone in rush hour traffic.

The mind does certainly boggle

Seve OB

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/woman-26-on-phone-about-sick-baby-in-hospital-dies-in-car-crash-1.2781267

that is just horrible.

this was such an avoidable tragedy though and while it really is unthinkable for the poor family involved, this incident should be highlighted from no to kingdom come as to what can happen if you stop on the hard shoulder...... so don't do it!!

Seve OB

the real issue here is that motorways are new enough in this country and most of the population just don't know how to drive on them.

I've passed my test a good while ago now, but surely there are more updated rules of the road that should be quizzed regarding the use of Motorways nowadays. Really, nobody should be given a licence without first being tested on a motorway.

For some of the older generation you might understand their lack of knowledge, but IMO there is no excuse for the younger generation.

Eg I work with 2 people, one lad well into his 50's and a girl mid 20's. I have had arguments with them both as they are both of the opinion they should cruise around the m50 in the middle lane, even if the left lane is empty.

the other day I was in the inside lane as I approached the red cow slip lane with cars merging onto my lane. there was a bit of traffic, not loads and the outside lane was totally empty. I indicate and start to move into the middle lane, but the guy over my right shoulder refuses to move out to the outside lane as I move out and instead thinks he should be holding firm in the middle lane and just beeps and wave at me as if to tell me I should have stayed where I was, despite the merging traffic in front of me and him being well back.

whiskeyman

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Yes while it is a tragedy, it doesn't take away from the fact that a significant portion of the blame lies with the driver of said car. At the end of the day, they were a pure ape. No offence but it's true.

Yep, I totally agree.
Bit much calling them 'pure ape'.
It just shows the lack of awareness many people have about safe driving.
We can pass our driving test without even driving on a Motorway FFS!!
Usual rules apply... penalties not strict enough... lack of enforcement etc...

Seve OB

whiskeyman wrote: »

Yep, I totally agree.
Bit much calling them 'pure ape'.
It just shows the lack of awareness many people have about safe driving.
We can pass our driving test without even driving on a Motorway FFS!!
Usual rules apply... penalties not strict enough... lack of enforcement etc...

Only made this comment to the missus this morning coming down the quays as some dude whizzed up the inside because it was obviously fine and dandy for him to drive in the bus lane while the rest of us queued up in the traffic. I had Dublin City FM (traffic station). I listen to these guys a bit, they sit in the office with all the traffic cameras and see all sorts of mad and stupid carry on.

So I told here if it were me, I'd start slow and make a fortune, but most importantly, change drivers behaviour. I reckon that giving someone a very, very well paid job @50k per year (I'm being overly generous here because in truth, you could probably hire 2 people for that money), could result in a very tidy profit by the end of the year. This could be spent on increasing the presence of cameras around the city & motorways and an awareness campaign to tell these fools of what the laws actually are.

So we get this person to sit there and watch the traffic cameras take screen shots of law breaking idiots who ignore red lights, drive in bus lanes, go wrong ways down one way streets, stop on yellow boxes etc and issue fines and penalty points in the post. I know if you stop on a yellow box in London you may expect a letter in the post with your picture and a fine (not sure about points). Result is, people tend not to do it over there.

People take risks because of 2 things.
they hope to not get caught or they don't know the rule they are breaking. the thing is here as you say, enforcement is pathetic so a lot of the time we see people taking these risks. If they break a rule and get caught, fined and points, they most likely won't do it again in a hurry

Arcade_Tryer

Cienciano wrote: »

The lack of laybys is a real problem.

I'm slightly concerned that I read that as a "lack of ladyboys".

Pinch Flat wrote: »

It's illegal, unless you have an emergency. In which case you exit the car and wait behind the crash barrier for assistance.

I've stopped in the hard shoulder on a motorway once or twice. Both times were because I believed there was something wrong with the car (engine overheating and lights issue at night). I made sure it was on a long stretch of straight road so cars coming behind me could see the hazards well in advance. It was also very quiet on the motorway. I did a quick check on the vehicle (2-3 mins max) and then built up speed in the hard shoulder to rejoin the road. I really don't see how I was a danger doing that. Genuinely believe I would have been more of a danger remaining on the road.

Pinch Flat

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

I've stopped in the hard shoulder on a motorway once or twice. Both times were because I believed there was something wrong with the car (engine overheating and lights issue at night). I made sure it was on a long stretch of straight road so cars coming behind me could see the hazards well in advance. It was also very quiet on the motorway. I did a quick check on the vehicle (2-3 mins max) and then built up speed in the hard shoulder to rejoin the road. I really don't see how I was a danger doing that. Genuinely believe I would have been more of a danger remaining on the road.

Fair enough, you stopped because there was a potential problem. You're relying on the person coming behind you seeing you - so if they're playing with the radio, distracted by kids / passengers, texting etc their perception of you is going to be hugely altered. Even with a flat tyre the procedure is to leave the car and ring assistance - seen plenty of numb nuts changing tyres on the right hand side of the car, crouched over with their body partly into the carriageway.

Seve OB

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

I really don't see how I was a danger doing that. Genuinely believe I would have been more of a danger remaining on the road.

no danger at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-XaD2UKpmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JiOETTsHWI

Ericdravancrow

Saw some couple having a picnic on the embankment of the motorway between Shannon and Ennis a few weeks ago... :-/

Sunny Dayz

I agree with the poster who commented that we get our full drivers licence without having driven on the motorway - which has a different set of rules than a normal road.


I've my full licence 9 years and I genuinely didn't know until recently that it's illegal to pull in on the hard shoulder of a motorway.


I had only pulled into the hard shoulder once before then, to make a quick phone call. I remember finding it quite scary, the car shaking as traffic flew passed me. I certainly didn't stay in the HS for any longer than I should have and pulled out of the HS when it was safe to do so after building up speed. At least the motorway was quiet.


I've pulled into the HS once since I knew it was illegal - but it was to report an accident on the road (I wasn't involved in it). Again it was very scary and I got out of the HS as quick as I could.