Farm science.

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Wouldn't take too much from that. The mono cultures were either ryegrass, chicory, white clover or red clover. You wouldn't expect the others bar ryegrass to do well on their own and the n rate with cutting was the equivalent of grazing with 0n so not really going to do any favours for ryegrass monoculture.



Would've been much more useful had they included other grass species and also did a higher fert rate.

From a Wexford and SE point of view, the biggest take from that was what grows in drought conditions.

On the fert point there's hundreds of campaigners looking to reduce our fert usage so it's better to plan and do the research on that than not.

eoinmk2

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SBakerMD/status/1049696517177503745?s=19

This might be a stupid question, but why does the y axis scale (in meters) start in the minus for sea level rise and land and ocean temperature change?

ganmo

eoinmk2 wrote: »

This might be a stupid question, but why does the y axis scale (in meters) start in the minus for sea level rise and land and ocean temperature change?

I presume its relative, so in 1900 the sea was ~15cm lower than the present for that graph

Say my name

ganmo wrote: »

I presume its relative, so in 1900 the sea was ~15cm lower than the present for that graph

Zero could have been the starting point for proper recording either.
The minus figures could be from a different type of recording to after the zero point.

Green&Red

davidk1394 wrote: »

What do you get at the end ?

You can do it for free and get nothing only learning or pay and get a cert AFAIK

Mooooo

https://youtu.be/tuwwfL2o9d4

Buford T. Justice XIX

There's a lot of information in this one, a few interesting bits about the near future changes in agricultural crop areas.
https://e360.yale.edu/features/redrawing-the-map-how-the-worlds-climate-zones-are-shifting

Waffletraktor

Little look under the hood of using vary-rate seeding rates and what the maps base the soil on overlayed with yield mapping via combine. Based off a 2,800 acre block though maps are a few years old now.

Waffletraktor

Seed rates governed by yield map results and head counts per m2 post tillering. Field has a steep hill on the narrow bit with light sandy soil and turns very heavy towards the bottom headland.

yosemitesam1

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Seed rates governed by yield map results and head counts per m2 post tillering. Field has a steep hill on the narrow bit with light sandy soil and turns very heavy towards the bottom headland.

How do the seed rates vary according to yield? High yield high seed rate?

Waffletraktor

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

How do the seed rates vary according to yield? High yield high seed rate?

Thought i'd put another bit in, aim for a certain no. of heads of wheat in this case per m2 for when all's said and done in May/June to what gives about the best average yield. The lighter bit tends to get better germination due to being a bit drier and better soil contact, heavier lower tends to be half drowned come the spring so the aim is to start with higher plant no's expecting to get maybe 1 tiller per plant to survive vs 2 from lighter ground. It's usually June that lack of moisture flips thngs round and light ground loses yield potential. The brown in top left corner represents 170/kg/ha seed rate vs 265 in the dark blue in the bottom corner. The orange would represent the target rate in this case. You could see it as the crop half drowning over the winter before using fertiliser regieme to try mnage tiller no's before moisture stress/maturity kicks in to manage no. of tillers you get and in turn your no. of heads of grain per m2. After that it's bushel weights and the amount of grains per head dictates things but you've no impact on that really. Other reasons for higher seed rate is out compete weeds(blackgrass or leatherjackets etc etc)
The screens off an ipad which takes in the tractors gps signal to say where it is, rate maps are preloaded in and it tells the drill what it should be putting on at that moment in time.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Thought i'd put another bit in, aim for a certain no. of heads of wheat in this case per m2 for when all's said and done in May/June to what gives about the best average yield. The lighter bit tends to get better germination due to being a bit drier and better soil contact, heavier lower tends to be half drowned come the spring so the aim is to start with higher plant no's expecting to get maybe 1 tiller per plant to survive vs 2 from lighter ground. It's usually June that lack of moisture flips thngs round and light ground loses yield potential. The brown in top left corner represents 170/kg/ha seed rate vs 265 in the dark blue in the bottom corner. The orange would represent the target rate in this case. You could see it as the crop half drowning over the winter before using fertiliser regieme to try mnage tiller no's before moisture stress/maturity kicks in to manage no. of tillers you get and in turn your no. of heads of grain per m2. After that it's bushel weights and the amount of grains per head dictates things but you've no impact on that really. Other reasons for higher seed rate is out compete weeds(blackgrass or leatherjackets etc etc)
The screens off an ipad which takes in the tractors gps signal to say where it is, rate maps are preloaded in and it tells the drill what it should be putting on at that moment in time.

Could you see a benefit on index4 soils?
Was the initial investment on creating a soil map steep?

blue5000

The Goosberry hill field you showed us, was that the pH map, or the harvest yield with blue at bottom? Sorry if I'm missing something.

Waffletraktor

blue5000 wrote: »

The Goosberry hill field you showed us, was that the pH map, or the harvest yield with blue at bottom? Sorry if I'm missing something.

It a seed rate map for vari-rate seeding, the soil maps are a little out of date now but still an interesting reference. The maps 8 years old now but were up dated in 2015 to improve accuracy due to extra layers/ more samples but if you were out in the field the different patches would coincide with changes in soil type as alot of the ground was layed down via glaciers. For reference this is gooseberry hill on the map.

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Could you see a benefit on index4 soils?
Was the initial investment on creating a soil map steep?

To be honest accurate and multiple years yield maps are a better guide imo, as it doesn't always do what the maps say or might be hidden behind a N facing steep bank etc etc. We do it as have the maps done and aim to take variability out of the equation so can go flat rate N programs in the main.
Cost 8£/acre 8 years ago and £5/acre to update in 2015 as just got soil chemical analysis done. £.40/acre for annual work done with yield maps/p+k/ph.

Buford T. Justice XIX

A little article about the ways to treat the different greenhouse gasses as regards their contribution to global climate change.


https://theconversation.com/why-methane-should-be-treated-differently-compared-to-long-lived-greenhouse-gases-97845


Methane is more polluting but short lived in the atmosphere while carbon dioxide is less polluting but remains much longer in the atmosphere.

Buford T. Justice XIX

I thought I'd fire this up. A NZ trial is beginning on successful 2 stage drainage channels from the US for reducing nutrient runoff during flooding events.
https://twitter.com/DairyNZ/status/1070059247042420736?s=19

yosemitesam1

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237352881_Mycorrhizae_possible_explanation_for_yield_decline_with_continuous_corn_and_soybean


Over time in the soil microbial community changes to reflect what is grown. In mono cultures the mycorrhizae fungi that are selected for by any crop tend to be more adapted to be parasitic on that crop than the strains selected by different crops. Part of how rotation increases yield in the absence of obvious diseases like take all, but continuous diversity would be better again as the selection is then always for mutualism and never parasitism

Buford T. Justice XIX

There's research being done in the US into improving the efficiency of photosynthesis and researchers are predicting a 40% improvement in production efficiency, going by work on tobacco plants.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/01/03/681941779/scientists-have-hacked-photosynthesis-in-search-of-more-productive-crops

Say my name

NASA have balanced the books on the question about the increase in methane in the atmosphere.
Spoiler alert ..increased fossil fuels and rice farming and the annual variation of fires.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/nasa-led-study-solves-a-methane-puzzle

Buford T. Justice XIX

A little bit on field scale Phosphorus balances in monitored catchment areas.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880918305115

Upstream

Say my name, where are you?
Some interest in Biochar in Ireland, here's an article from the Farmers Journal.

€1m for turning farmers’ rushes into biochar

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/1m-for-turning-farmers-rushes-into-biomass-432175

An east Clare-based project has received €1m in departmental and European funding to turn scrub-like rushes on farmlands into a biomass product, known as biochar. Carol Byrne reports.

Bernard Carey, project leader of biomass to Biochar for Farm Bio-Economy, based in Mountshannon, explains that their project aims to develop a local bioeconomy that will help the environment and generate a further income stream for farmers, particularly those in the Sliabh Aughty region, east Clare, the Burren and Connemara.

“The process will be akin to days past when the trashing mill went from farm to farm to thresh the cereal crops. Only we will be turning rushes into biochar,” he said.

Biochar is a carbon-based product, which will be created when rushes and other scrub material are fed into a specially-designed machine, using heat in a low-oxygen environment.

“Nearly every month there is a new use being found for it. Effectively, it is charcoal in its simplest form but when it is added to soil, it’s called biochar,” Carey said.

As a result of their project proposal, which was successful in securing funding in the region of €1m from the Department of Agriculture under the European Innovation Partnership fund, a unit is currently being made to produce biochar.


Uses of biochar

“The unit itself will be made by a company in Thurles and has to be custom-built because it doesn’t exist," Carey explained.

"That will be towed behind a tractor. I will arrive out to a farmer, who will previously have baled his rushes and on-site I chop them with a machine I’ll have.


"They will then be fed into this new unit. Using heat in a low-oxygen environment, the rushes will be turned into biochar.

"Biochar can be reapplied to the land as a form of fertiliser. It can also be used in animal feed to improve the health of the animals.

"It can be added to slurry tanks directly to reduce greenhouse emissions or just added back to land as a liming agent and locking up carbon in the soils for hundreds of years,” he explained.


Because this is a new concept, the operational group are partnering with research institutions to measure the benefits and environmental sustainability of the project.

It is hoped that an approach could be adopted where an agri-environmental scheme would be established.

This pilot project will span four years and was given the go-ahead in December 2017, with funding coming on stream in October 2018.


“We have identified people but we will be looking for more landowners in this area, so we will have public meetings possibly in Scariff and Woodford to explain what it is about.

"Farmers will be paid for their bales of rushes but this is a pilot project, it is a stepping stone. This is new science but old technology,” he concluded.

Say my name

Upstream wrote: »

Say my name, where are you?
Some interest in Biochar in Ireland, here's an article from the Farmers Journal.

€1m for turning farmers’ rushes into biochar

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/1m-for-turning-farmers-rushes-into-biomass-432175

I'm here!

Seen that article.

The million Euro won't be long going if they're paying for bales of rushes. :pac:
Going on reports rushes don't make great biochar. Now all that hazel in the Burren would be a different story.
Putting it in the slurry tanks is a great idea. Putting it into feed like a nut or ration would be even better.
It'll work better over there as most farmers would be extensive anyway and usually wouldn't be using much fertilizer so it should be readily accepted if the potential benefits are spelled out correctly. Even without payment for rushes.


It seems a little too wishy washy in it's aims. Hopefully it's a great success and not all sucked up in administration and researchers.

Say my name

Upstream wrote: »

Say my name, where are you?
Some interest in Biochar in Ireland, here's an article from the Farmers Journal.

€1m for turning farmers’ rushes into biochar

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/1m-for-turning-farmers-rushes-into-biomass-432175

A further development on this.



Biomass2Biochar (@BBiochar) Tweeted:
Here is one way to quite literally lock up carbon! Fresh off the press, Ireland's first #biochar brick made from #carbonised #rushes.😄 https://t.co/ZBx3W2C5h5 https://twitter.com/BBiochar/status/1087460837382676480?s=17

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

A further development on this.



Biomass2Biochar (@BBiochar) Tweeted:
Here is one way to quite literally lock up carbon! Fresh off the press, Ireland's first #biochar brick made from #carbonised #rushes.😄 https://t.co/ZBx3W2C5h5 https://twitter.com/BBiochar/status/1087460837382676480?s=17

Wonder was more carbon released making it than is held in it?

Say my name

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Wonder was more carbon released making it than is held in it?

Well there's less carbon released than would be in a normal block.

It'll substitute for some of the aggregate. So less carbon released there.

And if reports are to be believed better insulation, acoustic and even electro magnetic so and so's.

ganmo

Say my name wrote: »

Well there's less carbon released than would be in a normal block.

It'll substitute for some of the aggregate. So less carbon released there.

And if reports are to be believed better insulation, acoustic and even electro magnetic so and so's.

I'd believe acoustic, I'd need convincing of the rest

Say my name

ganmo wrote: »

I'd believe acoustic, I'd need convincing of the rest

Whatever about convincing ourselves.

It's going to be going in blocks and readymix. The big money is in the concrete industry and they're badly looking for a green edge.

yosemitesam1

Say my name wrote: »

Well there's less carbon released than would be in a normal block.

It'll substitute for some of the aggregate. So less carbon released there.

And if reports are to be believed better insulation, acoustic and even electro magnetic so and so's.

Sorry didn't realise it was for building

Buford T. Justice XIX

Here's an interesting one. We've all heard that the mineral profiles in food has declined due to intensive agriculture but a more reasoned explanation could be that higher yields are having a small dilution effect on the mineral profile but eating the recommended levels will supply a more than adequate level of nutrients.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157516302113

older by the day

Did Fine Gael introduce 23%vat on supplements there lately

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

Whatever about convincing ourselves.

It's going to be going in blocks and readymix. The big money is in the concrete industry and they're badly looking for a green edge.

Local business here is putting waste glass into blocks and readymix, charging a gate fee to take it in and selling it out then, now that's business

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

Local business here is putting waste glass into blocks and readymix, charging a gate fee to take it in and selling it out then, now that's business

Does the same company sell blocklayer's gloves as well?

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

Does the same company sell blocklayer's gloves as well?

That'd be a small sacrifice to know that you're looking after the environment

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

Does the same company sell blocklayer's gloves as well?

You wouldn't think there was that much glass knocking around
https://www.google.ie/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x485dba48511f9765%3A0x2fbeb40e27b9d9bc!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO3Ceu9u1-Qo13pFfKeVTBrr6kzPjWKrfwi0wem%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sgannon%20eco%20-%20Google%20Search&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipO3Ceu9u1-Qo13pFfKeVTBrr6kzPjWKrfwi0wem&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-lovgz9LgAhXaWxUIHctfDscQoiowEHoECAUQBg

Say my name

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Here's an interesting one. We've all heard that the mineral profiles in food has declined due to intensive agriculture but a more reasoned explanation could be that higher yields are having a small dilution effect on the mineral profile but eating the recommended levels will supply a more than adequate level of nutrients.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889157516302113

Modern variety breeding has a lot to do with it too. This is comparing say fruit trees.

That article does say there is a slight reduction in minerals but don't worry chaps the yield increases outweigh the negatives in this hungry world.

We've a few apple trees here and every few years there's a bumper harvest. Then we have to pawn them off on everyone we meet.
One day we were collecting a bag of foal pellets at the local feed mill and of course when the car boot was opened there was a box of apples. The yardman asked could he have one. So we gave him a few apples. He couldn't get over the taste and juiciness of the apples.
But sure we knew it ourselves, there's no comparison between those and the shop bought apples. They might as well be two different fruits.
Same with your own milk and bought put back together milk but that's a processing thing.

Siamsa Sessions

Does the apparent breeding/selecting for sweetness affect mineral levels?

Theory is that fruits now are much sweeter than they were 30 years ago since consumers have been trained to want more sugar in everything

Buford T. Justice XIX

Say my name wrote: »

Modern variety breeding has a lot to do with it too. This is comparing say fruit trees.

That article does say there is a slight reduction in minerals but don't worry chaps the yield increases outweigh the negatives in this hungry world.

We've a few apple trees here and every few years there's a bumper harvest. Then we have to pawn them off on everyone we meet.
One day we were collecting a bag of foal pellets at the local feed mill and of course when the car boot was opened there was a box of apples. The yardman asked could he have one. So we gave him a few apples. He couldn't get over the taste and juiciness of the apples.
But sure we knew it ourselves, there's no comparison between those and the shop bought apples. They might as well be two different fruits.
Same with your own milk and bought put back together milk but that's a processing thing.

From the article

Contemporaneous analysis of different varieties of the same crop grown side-by-side or of archived samples of grain have confirmed that some modern varieties of vegetables and grains are lower in some nutrients than older varieties due to a dilution effect of increased yield by accumulation of carbohydrate (starch, sugar and/or fibre) without a proportional increase in certain other nutrients. However, well-conducted comparisons have shown that consistent trends of decrease in content of certain nutrients are mostly seen only when crops are lumped into broad groups of vegetables, fruits, and grains.

JustJoe7240

wrangler wrote: »

You wouldn't think there was that much glass knocking around
https://www.google.ie/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x485dba48511f9765%3A0x2fbeb40e27b9d9bc!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4shttps%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipO3Ceu9u1-Qo13pFfKeVTBrr6kzPjWKrfwi0wem%3Dw213-h160-k-no!5sgannon%20eco%20-%20Google%20Search&imagekey=!1e10!2sAF1QipO3Ceu9u1-Qo13pFfKeVTBrr6kzPjWKrfwi0wem&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-lovgz9LgAhXaWxUIHctfDscQoiowEHoECAUQBg

They crush windscreens from cars being scrapped.

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

Modern variety breeding has a lot to do with it too. This is comparing say fruit trees.

That article does say there is a slight reduction in minerals but don't worry chaps the yield increases outweigh the negatives in this hungry world.

We've a few apple trees here and every few years there's a bumper harvest. Then we have to pawn them off on everyone we meet.
One day we were collecting a bag of foal pellets at the local feed mill and of course when the car boot was opened there was a box of apples. The yardman asked could he have one. So we gave him a few apples. He couldn't get over the taste and juiciness of the apples.
But sure we knew it ourselves, there's no comparison between those and the shop bought apples. They might as well be two different fruits.
Same with your own milk and bought put back together milk but that's a processing thing.

A lot of the old varieties don't keep very well, would yours keep until now

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

A lot of the old varieties don't keep very well, would yours keep until now

Nope they'd bruise if a leaf hit them.

Modern shop fruit is all for show, lumps of ice without the cold.

Even strawberries from Spain and Holland are the same. There's no comparison with Irish field strawberries but sadly growers here are going the same way with acres of plastic tunnels and forced fruit.
But that's commerce.
When you bite into a strawberry you'd very quickly know in a millisecond whether that fruit got sunshine or not.

ganmo

Ya I saw a shop advertising strawberries last week and my first thought was they couldn't be nice

yosemitesam1

A look at the grass growing season based on soil temps recorded in the 50's and 60's

Say my name

Senior citizens who eat more than two standard sized portions of mushrooms a week, have a 50% less chance of going doolally.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190312103702.htm

Buford T. Justice XIX

The whole methane from cattle is causing global warming just got more interesting. Turns out that trees are huge emitters of methane and may also absorb some methane in different soil types.
https://twitter.com/Revkin/status/1110262976081260544?s=19

Say my name

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The whole methane from cattle is causing global warming just got more interesting. Turns out that trees are huge emitters of methane and may also absorb some methane in different soil types.
https://twitter.com/Revkin/status/1110262976081260544?s=19

Interesting but the real problem is carbon and always will be.
That means there needs to be a complete stop on fossil fuel use. That's coal, gas, petrol, diesel, and turf even.
Then the plants need to be grown to absorb carbon from the atmosphere and that carbon turned back into coal where it can be stored again for millions of years.
In effect, man made coal field formations.

Just to show how it was such a difficult job for mother earth to form the coal fields in the first place. Here..
https://theconversation.com/coals-formation-is-a-window-on-an-ancient-world-54333

As you've read it's not occcuring anymore. So hence humans need to get busy right now stopping extraction of the existing stock and start making new ones to take the atmospheric concentration of carbon back to 50% of current levels where it was before the fossil fuel burning began.

*Apologies It's a little bit off farm science although ... aswell putting that carbon in the soil would kill many birds with one stone.
People need to get busy. It's just not happening at the moment. Slouchy consumerism reigns. With small time thinking from small time politicians looking for a vote from their small time electorate.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Thought I'd post this here, a study on enhanced TB detection in the UK. https://twitter.com/bovinetb/status/1120245903913291776?s=19

Buford T. Justice XIX

I came across the results of a multi species grazing resilient sward trial from Ireland and Switzerland.
https://twitter.com/Johnfinn310/status/1050845743655936001?s=19

Buford T. Justice XIX

Interesting tweet on the distribution of the major farm sectors in the states.
https://twitter.com/drsplace/status/1122991697548447745?s=19

yosemitesam1

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2019-06-industrial-methane-emissions-higher.amp