Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

former total

twinytwo wrote: »

I dont think sexton should go... too many warm up games and lets be honest he will be singled out.

Gatty will pick wales go down there get hammered off the pitch. Personally id prefer no Irish involvment with what will turn into a shambles.

The Lions will probably lose 3-0 and probably lose two or three tour games too. We should still give it a lash though. Even 2-1 would be a great achievement.

However, it would be a lot worse if they take a hammering but no Irish players were good enough even to make the cut.

I want as many Irish players as possible on the tour. I'll bet the players themselves do too.

irishbucsfan

former total wrote: »

The Lions will lose 3-0 and probably lose two or three tour games too.

However, it would be a lot worse if they take a hammering but no Irish players were good enough even to make the cut.

I want as many Irish players as possible on the tour.

I don't know, it might be a lot more bearable if we didn't have to hear about how Irish player X is 100x better than Welsh/English player Y but isn't being picked because Gatland is a meanie throughout the tour... A low Irish representation might be worth pulling that particular plaster early on!

It took a truly world class performance in the 2nd test before some people would even consider that maybe Sam Warburton might actually be remotely useful last time.

Buer

I can honestly say it's the first ever Lions tour where I'm not excited one iota. The last tour left me completely cold and that has nothing to do with the BOD saga at all. It was a a bloated mess which completely diluted the appeal of the Lions. They had an opportunity to do something impressive in terms of sweeping the tour but failed.

No shame in that but the fact that the first game they lost the winning run due to a joke selection against the Brumbies left a sour taste for me, sending out a back line of a completely undeserving and cobbled together players (Hogg at 10, Wade, Barritt, Twelvetrees and the retired Shane Williams who was passing through on media work).

With the prospect of a squad going out there to get stuffed a number of times at the end of the season, I struggle to see the big appeal as a supporter. I'll follow it because I love the game but it's the first time I'm not actively looking at the potential squad a year out.

I'd like Irish players to get selected as it's a great honour still to be considered best in class but I would only want guys out there who can genuinely get into the 23 and that's a small number right now. Given the squad numbers and silly call ups that happened last time, I don't put much honour in being a dirt tracker for the Lions any longer.

thomond2006

Tbh I think the biggest issue was the quality of the test series. It just wasn't great to watch compared to 2009 where the first two tests were phenomenal.

swiwi_

Buer wrote: »

I can honestly say it's the first ever Lions tour where I'm not excited one iota. The last tour left me completely cold and that has nothing to do with the BOD saga at all. It was a a bloated mess which completely diluted the appeal of the Lions. They had an opportunity to do something impressive in terms of sweeping the tour but failed.

No shame in that but the fact that the first game they lost the winning run due to a joke selection against the Brumbies left a sour taste for me, sending out a back line of a completely undeserving and cobbled together players (Hogg at 10, Wade, Barritt, Twelvetrees and the retired Shane Williams who was passing through on media work).

With the prospect of a squad going out there to get stuffed a number of times at the end of the season, I struggle to see the big appeal as a supporter. I'll follow it because I love the game but it's the first time I'm not actively looking at the potential squad a year out.

I'd like Irish players to get selected as it's a great honour still to be considered best in class but I would only want guys out there who can genuinely get into the 23 and that's a small number right now. Given the squad numbers and silly call ups that happened last time, I don't put much honour in being a dirt tracker for the Lions any longer.

Well at least NZ is taking it seriously and providing decent opposition. The romanic in me would prefer a selection of Mitre 10 cup sides, but by choosing to go with the Super Franchises, even the midweek sides will have proper competiton, in fact a more than decent chance of defeat even.

I find this "hope as few Irish get chosen as possible" attitude weird TBH.

Also: might be last chance to see some of these players below in Black before they come play in Europe, which of course may include Irish clubs

Players off contract in 2017:

Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Owen Franks, Cory Jane, Israel Dagg, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith, Charlie Faumuina, Sam Cane, Steven Luatua, Malakai Fekitoa, Hikawera Elliot, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, James Broadhurst, Tawera Kerr Barlow, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo, Brad Weber, Charlie Ngatai and Ryan Crotty

Faumuina has signed for Toulouse in a poorly-kept secret IIRC, but there are some tasty options there - I would think the likes of Jane, Dagg, Cruden, B. Smith, Luatua, Crotty would be up for a big European retirement package.

Clegg

Ben Smith please.

bilston

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

bilston

I want as many Irish selected as possible, if that happens it means Irish rugby has had a good season.

LuckyGent88

bilston wrote: »

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

Kerr Barlow and brad weber are both SH. Both with the Chiefs.

Yeah_Right

bilston wrote: »

Any scrum halves there Swiwi?

TKB and Brad Weber.

whatawaster

I'd say the following all have at least outside shouts

Payne
Henshaw
Zebo
Marshall
Murray
Sexton

S O'Brien
Heaslip
Stander
O'Mahony
Henderson
McGrath
Best

I'd say if fit we would likely have:
Sexton, Murray, McGrath, O'Brien, Henshaw, Henderson

Winters

I can see Stander travelling .

irishbucsfan

Warren G confirmed!

It's the G-Funk era, funked out with a taffy twist

Dog Botherer

My hopes for this tour:

1. Lions put up a good showing in at least two of the tests, perhaps even finishing within a try of NZ.
2. As few Irish players involved as possible, to minimise injuries.
3. Good performances against the Super sides, winning most of them.

My expectations for this tour:

1. Lions humiliated in all 3 tests. AB make a raft of changes for the final test and still win by 25 points.
2. Career ending injury for Sexton in a pointless midweek game.
3. Disjointed dirttrackers taken apart by clinical club sides, much like how the Chiefs embarassed Wales' A side.

Joys of being a positive ****.

Teferi

This is the darkest timeline.

razorblunt

This is bloody great news for Sean Maitland.


Someone is getting dragged over the coals in the sponsors building today I'd say, a "quick" photoshoot outside their HQ, sure what could go wrong.

awec

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37295281

Former Wales fly-half Jonathan Davies says he has "a sneaky feeling" the Lions could run Steve Hansen's world champions close next year.

:pac: :pac:

Teferi

Boards went down there for a few minutes. Thanks, Gatland.

kilns

The Lions is now only a money making machine and to give a few blazers something to do and have a trip out of it. How could you cheer for a team led by Gatland and most likely having guys like Mike Brown and Dylan Hartley in it

Hopefully the majority of the Irish players are kept away from the pending humilation

bilston

awec wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37295281

Former Wales fly-half Jonathan Davies says he has "a sneaky feeling" the Lions could run Steve Hansen's world champions close next year.

:pac: :pac:

Look (as the Antipodeans like to say)...I think we'll lose 3-0...but I honestly think the English tight 5 can put it up to NZ if given a chance, and for that I don't see any hammering like the 2nd test in '05 when DC blew all our minds with arguably the greatest individual test performance of the professional era.

PTH2009

The ABs will be beaten either in November or next June I think. Apart from them, the rugby championship seems weaker with Australia and South Africa struggling and Argentina still finding there feet

We came close in 2013(sum guys on here were in comas/had a fallen out with the game when it took place a few years ago lol), England are improving and would not fear them and this will be the biggest lions tour in history

thomond2006

The Lions will win the series 3-0 if awec makes the All Blacks logo his profile pic.

awec

The Telegraph have put up their choice of Lions 15:

15: Stuart Hogg (Scotland) - a brilliant counter-attacker who would light up any back division, but will Welshman Leigh Halfpenny's prolific goalkicking edge it in selection?

14: Anthony Watson (England) - a proven high-quality finisher, who has scored 12 tries in 24 Tests for England.

13: Jonathan Joseph (England) - an outside centre in the classic mode, he offers pace, creativity and try-scoring prowess.

12: Robbie Henshaw (Ireland) - has all the skills, with defensive power to match. Star quality, but could be a toss of the coin between him and Wales' Jamie Roberts.

11: George North (Wales) - had his injury troubles, but a proven top-level performer who is capable of terrorising any defence.

10: Owen Farrell (England) - George Ford, Dan Biggar and Johnny Sexton are all set to be in the fly-half mix, but Farrell is currently a short distance ahead of them.

9: Rhys Webb (Wales) - Ireland's Conor Murray is likely to push hard for a Test spot, yet Webb's all-round game nudges him clear.

1: Mako Vunipola (England) - arguably England's most improved forward of the Eddie Jones coaching reign. Powerful and consistent.

2: Dylan Hartley (England) - has led England superbly since being appointed captain by Eddie Jones. Also the best hooker in Britain and Ireland by a proverbial mile.

3: WP Nel (Scotland) - the South Africa-born tighthead prop is an immense scrummager, and just the set-piece cornerstone Gatland will require, as is England's Dan Cole. Tight call.

4: Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) - skippered the Lions to victory in the third Test decider against Australia three years ago, and should keep the job. World-class in every area.

5: George Kruis (England) - has produced magnificent form in England colours. An exemplary lineout operator with a mighty work-rate.

6: Maro Itoje (England) - might be a lock for England, but blindside flanker for the Lions? Too good to be left out of Gatland's Test team.

7: Sam Warburton (Wales) - a fit and in-form Warburton is head and shoulders above anyone else as the best openside flanker available to Gatland. Class act.

8: Taulupe Faletau (Wales) - the battle for Test selection with England's Billy Vunipola will be fascinating, but Faletau is a more complete footballer.

No way does Farrell start at 10 and no way does Henshaw start at 12 for me.

swiwi_

AWJ has been borderline crap at international level recently, although apparently might be somewhat injury-related.

The Lions won't beat NZ if they pick on reputation and not form.

Liam Williams was outstanding in NZ, along with Webb and probably Faleatu their best tourists.

I'd be tempted to play Farrell at 12, it has worked pretty well for England recently, and he's a match winning goalkicker. Might see a few Polynesian lads sent down his channel though.

In any case the FH job is open, on recent enough form Sexton is by no means a certainty to start there.

Dave_The_Sheep

swiwi_ wrote: »

The Lions won't beat NZ if they pick on reputation and not form.

The last Lions tour showed that form - or reputation - doesn't really matter as much as "being able to play the way Gatland wants you to" with a related side helping of "being Welsh".

I know a lot can change in a year, but on NZ's current form, I can't see anything other than a 3-0 home series win... I'd almost say regardless of who Gatland brings and what gameplan they play.

Then again, I'm a pessimistic f*ck.

awec

I think it'll be Biggar at 10 tbh. Of course this season could change that but I fancy he'll go with Biggar as his first choice.

dub_skav

awec wrote: »

I think it'll be Biggar at 10 tbh. Of course this season could change that but I fancy he'll go with Biggar as his first choice.

Probably best choice.
Fight the haka with the macarena

Much more scary than this

Scythica

Teferi wrote: »

This is the darkest timeline.

I agree Evil Teferi. Now where's my hand whisk

CatFromHue

I know a lot of posters reckon Gatland will pick a lot of welsh players as that's what he did before but you have to remember Wales won a GS in 2012 and won the 6N again in 2013. Ireland didn't do very well in either of those comps.

They also had a better showing at the 2011 RWC than we had.

kilns

If Joe is still there, I fully expect Ireland to win the 2017 six nations - with France and England at home.

Still however, do not see Gatland picking many Irish players. McGrath, Henderson, OBrien (if fit), Murray, Sexton - the only potential starters

swiwi_

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

The last Lions tour showed that form - or reputation - doesn't really matter as much as "being able to play the way Gatland wants you to" with a related side helping of "being Welsh".

I just find this kind of analysis a bit lame. It smacks more of chip on shoulder than anything else.

It's entirely reasonable that the coach wants you to play his way.

I don't think there was systematic Welsh bias. Of course, Gatland may know certain players better than others from coaching Wales, which helps him with the 50/50 calls...but no different to Joe Schmidt whisking Fergus McFadden up from mediocre provincial form into the starting XV during last year's 6N...

I mean at times you could argue the Irish XV is selected on "being able to play the way Schmidt wants you to" with a related side helping of "being known to Joe".

Dave_The_Sheep

swiwi_ wrote: »

I just find this kind of analysis a bit lame. It smacks more of chip on shoulder than anything else.

You're quite right, I've no time for Gatland, however I can recognise his many achievements in rugby, which are many and say he's been a good/great coach for various teams down the years.

Swiwi wrote:

It's entirely reasonable that the coach wants you to play his way.

I don't think there was systematic Welsh bias. Of course, Gatland may know certain players better than others from coaching Wales, which helps him with the 50/50 calls...

Obviously - of course a coach will want you to play his way, in this case, a way that hasn't had much success if any against Southern Hemisphere opposition. It's why I said "related side helping". Welsh players have been playing his style of play for a long while now. It's not just because they're Welsh, but being Welsh helps for that very reason.

This links into a problem I have with it, which is why I've got a problem with the coach being one of the head coaches of the four nations. I mean, if we're going to take it seriously, surely it should be someone without such massive links to one of the teams player pools.

Swiwi wrote:

...but no different to Joe Schmidt whisking Fergus McFadden up from mediocre provincial form into the starting XV during last year's 6N...

I mean at times you could argue the Irish XV is selected on "being able to play the way Schmidt wants you to" with a related side helping of "being known to Joe".

I'm not sure what Schmidt has to do with it, he's not Lions coach. For what it's worth though, I didn't agree with putting Ferg in then, wouldn't now. And also, I wouldn't want Schmidt in charge either for the reason I brought up above (and for others).

37/41

(Jeopardy)

Utopia Parkway

kilns wrote: »

If Joe is still there, I fully expect Ireland to win the 2017 six nations - with France and England at home.

Still however, do not see Gatland picking many Irish players. McGrath, Henderson, OBrien (if fit), Murray, Sexton - the only potential starters

Think Murray will be the only Irish starter. Maybe McGrath with a chance also.

Just don't trust SOB to be healthy enough at this stage.

Buer

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Think Murray will be the only Irish starter. Maybe McGrath with a chance also.

I'd be quite surprised if Rhys Webb doesn't start barring injury or a dramatic loss of form.

Teferi

Lads, if I were you I would sign up to try and win this absolutely unreal, once in a lifetime prize from the Lions.

molloyjh

Teferi wrote: »

Lads, if I were you I would sign up to try and win this absolutely unreal, once in a lifetime prize from the Lions.

I want to say something witty, but I've got nothing. I honestly can't come up with anything more sarcastic or amusing than the title of that page.

ClanofLams

Teferi wrote: »

Lads, if I were you I would sign up to try and win this absolutely unreal, once in a lifetime prize from the Lions.

Wow that's bad. Could they not at least make it a jersey? A competition for an autograph on a piece of paper, Christ.

Teferi

Teferi wrote: »

Lads, if I were you I would sign up to try and win this absolutely unreal, once in a lifetime prize from the Lions.

It's not even a one-of-a-kind!

http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/terms-amp-conditions-signed-press-release-from-the-2017-head-coach-14672#.V8_mg_krLIU

There is five (5) prize available.

Some would use 'are', but Lions do not.

Competition closes at 10pm lads, get cracking.

swiwi_

ClanofLams wrote: »

Wow that's bad. Could they not at least make it a jersey? A competition for an autograph on a piece of paper, Christ.

They couldn't even spell New Ziland right.

molloyjh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not even a one-of-a-kind!

http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/terms-amp-conditions-signed-press-release-from-the-2017-head-coach-14672#.V8_mg_krLIU



Some would use 'are', but Lions do not.

Competition closes at 10pm lads, get cracking.

You'd also think that multiple prizes would involve a plural of some sort.....

Felix Jones is God

molloyjh wrote: »

I want to say something witty, but I've got nothing. I honestly can't come up with anything more sarcastic or amusing than the title of that page.

Maybe something along the lines of wanting it for a particularly nasty dose of the tom tits so you can wipe your arse with it

Surprised at the level of negativity here towards the Lions. Gatland is probably the most decorated coach working in the NH at the moment and won the last tour. I'm not saying he is the best coach potentially available, but he has a proven track record of doing well with fairly average players.

I love the Lions. I love seeing Irish players in a completely different set up, the players seem to love it too, it's a huge honour and countless former players have talked at length about how the experience benefited them. The last Lions dvd was a thoroughly enjoyable watch.

I also enjoyed the last tour. I thought the Welsh were over represented in the final test albeit there was a solid argument for any of them that were chosen over others that day. I personally never like playing Wales under Gatland, they can be poor but in a must win you can't bet against them. I think if the Lions were to leave everything on the pitch and somehow win the first test, it could end up being an exceptional series.

At least I'm hoping that's how it ends up, way more fun than complaining and expecting a white wash.

Dog Botherer

I mean, obviously I hope the Lions win the series, but no one with an ounce of sense, pundit or otherwise, is entertaining notions of anything other than a very comfortable 3-0 series win for the AB. No scratch side, as talented as the individuals may be, is going to upset the well oiled NZ machine. There's only so much a team that has Roberts at 12 can do really.

Honestly, when you take the best players from 4 countries, most of them are still inferior to the All Blacks. Maybe there's an edge in the props. Nel and McGrath are certainly better than what the AB have. But that's about it. I can't see where the Lions would target NZ to beat them.

RichieRich89

Dog Botherer wrote: »

I mean, obviously I hope the Lions win the series, but no one with an ounce of sense, pundit or otherwise, is entertaining notions of anything other than a very comfortable 3-0 series win for the AB. No scratch side, as talented as the individuals may be, is going to upset the well oiled NZ machine. There's only so much a team that has Roberts at 12 can do really.

Honestly, when you take the best players from 4 countries, most of them are still inferior to the All Blacks. Maybe there's an edge in the props. Nel and McGrath are certainly better than what the AB have. But that's about it. I can't see where the Lions would target NZ to beat them.

Nel's better than Owen Franks and Charlie Faumuina?

Dog Botherer

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Nel's better than Owen Franks and Charlie Faumuina?

In the scrum, without question. McGrath is no slouch in the loose either.

swiwi_

Dog Botherer wrote: »

I mean, obviously I hope the Lions win the series, but no one with an ounce of sense, pundit or otherwise, is entertaining notions of anything other than a very comfortable 3-0 series win for the AB. No scratch side, as talented as the individuals may be, is going to upset the well oiled NZ machine. There's only so much a team that has Roberts at 12 can do really.

Honestly, when you take the best players from 4 countries, most of them are still inferior to the All Blacks. Maybe there's an edge in the props. Nel and McGrath are certainly better than what the AB have. But that's about it. I can't see where the Lions would target NZ to beat them.

One of the problems with NH rugby is too much emphasis is put on the scrumming ability of props. Obviously, you have to be able to hold up a scrum, but the AB props also lift well in lineouts, clean out rucks, and are much better at catch, pass, offload & take the gap than their NH counterparts.

Franks & Moody are both perfectly decently scrummaging props, but I absolutely concede not THE best at that particular skill in the world.

If the series comes purely down to the technical scrumming ability of the props, then the Lions might have an edge.

Don't think Nel in particular would get near the NZ team, from what I've seen he can scrum and not too much else.

sydthebeat

And don't forget, New scrum amendments favour quicker release so one on one scrimmaging battles are lessened.

lawred2

My interest in the Corporate Loyuns and the marketeers roadshow that follows them couldn't get much lower..

I used to enjoy it but the endless hyping up just got too much for me..

Yeah_Right

Are Canterbury the kit sponsors for the Lions now? Is the the first time it's not Adidas since 1997? I would have thought they'd want it for this tour as then they'd have both teams to do ads with.