Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

English Lurker

Deleted User wrote: »

Surprised at the level of negativity here towards the Lions.

I'm not. The level of negativity in regards to Gatland has been plainly on sight for a while.

I am possibly being overly optimistic but I think people are basing their expectations on false premises. A lot of people seem to think he'll show a lot of bias and show up with a Welsh heavy team (and also Irish light) and a game plan of trying solely to outmuscle the All Blacks.

I just rewatched the 1st NZ - Wales test from this summer and I didn't see a team trying to outmuscle the All Blacks. They were trying to generate as many 1 on 1s out wide as possible. Maybe Gatland will revert to type but I don't see that as given.

I also don't see it as a given that he'll pick Welsh heavy. Wales were unquestionably the best BI team in 2013. Now they're probably the 3rd best. I think he does have a bit of bias towards the players he knows, but only a bit and the situation's changed a lot.

I'd agree that Ireland have lost their nailed on players but there's still a bunch of guys who could go and given the vagaries of injury and form, I think plenty will. They're talking about a party of 38-40. Can I see a team with 5-6 Irish starters on? Yeah. I don't think anyone would be surprised if, say, McGrath Henderson O'Mahony Murray Sexton Henshaw all started. Not guaranteed but little in life is.

Honestly, anyone would think they're on a Scottish rugby forum

If Gatland can get the team clicking in time, I think the talent is there to seriously challenge the All Blacks with a fair wind injury wise.

The Rape of Lucretia

Telegraph early musings going for Ireland to have a starter on the Lions test team !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/09/08/lions-in-new-zealand---how-tourists-might-line-up-for-first-test/sam-warburton/

Go Jack !

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Telegraph early musings going for Ireland to have a starter on the Lions test team !

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/09/08/lions-in-new-zealand---how-tourists-might-line-up-for-first-test/sam-warburton/

Go Jack !

That's a pretty solid and fair go at a prediction imo.

Obviously we're miles away so there's a bunch of injuries coming etc, but that's not far off what should be the team (if those players play to their abilities for the coming season and stay fit & available)

That if is enormous though!

Neil3030

I reckon that Telegraph team won't be far off what we'll see. Though I would rather us try and attack the only area we might conceivably have an advantage over NZ: scrum and lineout/maul. It'll hopefully be pissing rain in June too. So I'd go with a pack of:

McGrath
Hartley
Lee
Itoje
Wyn Jones
Henderson
Warburton
Hughes

Adbrowne

English Lurker wrote: »

I don't think anyone would be surprised if, say, McGrath Henderson O'Mahony Murray Sexton Henshaw all started.

Do you genuinely think O'Mahony will get to tour? I cant see him getting picked barring injuries

Faletau, Warburton, Lydiate, Billy V, Haskell (back from injury soon), Nathan Hughes all in the mix. Can add Strauss and Hardie from scotland as possibles too.

Itoje and Henderson are also options for the backrow too depending on what locks travel

Adbrowne

Adbrowne wrote: »

Do you genuinely think O'Mahony will get to tour? I cant see him getting picked barring injuries

Faletau, Warburton, Lydiate, Billy V, Haskell (back from injury soon), Nathan Hughes all in the mix. Can add Strauss and Hardie from scotland as possibles too.

Itoje and Henderson are also options for the backrow too depending on what locks travel

O'Mahony may struggle to make the Irish team this season, never mind the Lions. Not sure about what contribution we may make to the forwards but my thoughts would be along the lines of:

Front row I'd expect Jack McGrath to travel, maybe Healy if he gets into form this season and Furlong / Moore if they have a good season may put their hands up but wouldn't currently be in consideration.

Second row only Henderson, Toner perhaps if there are injuries and we want a solid line out option but unlikely as he isn't dynamic enough around the park for a Lions selection (though he shamed DeJager and Eztebeth in the first SA test and they are arguable two best in the world). Ultan Dillane has the pedigree and could be in with a shout.

Back row Heaslip doesn't seem to be slowing down so wouldn't be surprised to see him travel as team captain. CJ has earned a right to be considered and if SOB get's back into any kind of form he'll be on the plane, at his near best he is good enough, at his best he is unparalleled.

Outside of that there are a bunch of guys in prime position to have serious break through seasons, will have to wait and see - add's an interesting context to the season though!

bilston

Heaslip as team captain?

Flip that's some call. At the moment he is probably third choice behind Vunipola and Faletau (although I'm not sure if there is any word on his injury yet). Heaslip will do well to make the tour never mind be captain.

Adbrowne

bilston wrote: »

Heaslip as team captain?

Flip that's some call. At the moment he is probably third choice behind Vunipola and Faletau (although I'm not sure if there is any word on his injury yet). Heaslip will do well to make the tour never mind be captain.

Hughes is also an option too. I think Ireland will have a small contingent this time. Also Hartley is being tipped as a potential captain.

The Rape of Lucretia

Deleted User wrote: »

Ultan Dillane has the pedigree

From where ?


Could see Henderson make it if he has a big 6N and breaks through to be a real star.
Just cant see Healy getting back to that level at all. Would be happy at this stage he he could run out his career as at solid Leinster level. Dont think Henshaw will get a look in either.
Sexton will all depend on how the 6N goes, but think he could travel, though an unlikely test starter. Murray more likely to be in the mix than Sexton this time for me.

wp_rathead

bilston wrote: »

Heaslip as team captain?

Flip that's some call. At the moment he is probably third choice behind Vunipola and Faletau (although I'm not sure if there is any word on his injury yet). Heaslip will do well to make the tour never mind be captain.

Faletau only out for 3-4 weeks thankfully

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Heaslip as team captain?

Flip that's some call. At the moment he is probably third choice behind Vunipola and Faletau (although I'm not sure if there is any word on his injury yet). Heaslip will do well to make the tour never mind be captain.

Vunipola and Faletau are two terrific players, but Heaslip has a more all around game that in a Lions series will add serious value. He's hugely respected by other players also and has been on multiple Lions tours. Probably as good a non Welsh candidate as you could get.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

From where ?


Could see Henderson make it if he has a big 6N and breaks through to be a real star.
Just cant see Healy getting back to that level at all. Would be happy at this stage he he could run out his career as at solid Leinster level. Dont think Henshaw will get a look in either.
Sexton will all depend on how the 6N goes, but think he could travel, though an unlikely test starter. Murray more likely to be in the mix than Sexton this time for me.

Made the SA tour, minced a **** heap of internationals in the pro12 last season and has had a lot of our current internationals talking about him in almost Ferris style tones, Dillane is going to be a big player for Ireland over the next decade.

There is no reason why Healy couldn't get back to the player he was and as far as I'm concerned I'm looking to see if he could end up being better.

English Lurker

I'm surprised people are so down on O'Mahony. If you want a blindside who impacts either the lineout or the breakdown, then he's fairly close to top of the queue in these isles, nevermind if you want both. Still, no one would be all that surprised to see SOB or Stander in a Lions shirt either, which was my point. There's plenty of quality Irish guys who'd fit nicely into a Lions jersey. The fact some of them would sit on the bench for a full strength Irish 23 only illustrates my point further.

I would strongly disagree with the idea that Heaslip has a significantly better all around game than Faletau and given how far behind he is both Faletau and Vunipola as a carrier, I'm inclined to see him as a distant third choice.

I can see Dillane touring - he has the raw materials - but there is a glut of hyper-athletic locks available, most of them further ahead in their development. I think he'd need a considerable lucky break. Still, I think its likely one of Henderson and Dillane goes, simply because one of them starts in the 6N and that's a big advantage.

Incidentally, no one's talking about Best going, but there's three hookers going and I don't see who the three better than him are. Only reason I don't see him making the test team are those pressure throws/the ominous feeling I have about Hartley as captain.

Finally...

If Gatland does stay true to type, you can bet he has his eyes on McCloskey. Don't know if he'll come through quickly enough this year but could happen. Besides, Gatland can always take a risk on a few players and stick them in the dirt trackers if it doesn't pay off. He's probably the closest thing to prime Jamie Roberts available these days (including Jamie Roberts).

swiwi_

English Lurker wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with the idea that Heaslip has a significantly better all around game than Faletau and given how far behind he is both Faletau and Vunipola as a carrier, I'm inclined to see him as a distant third choice.

You need to lurk on the forum more, and learn the unwritten rules. When it comes to the Lions, if there is an Irish player in contention, especially if his opponent is not so much a forum favourite, then it's not so much arguing that the Irish player is better, but also making his opponent seem actually not very good at all, and not remotely in contention. Last Lions tour:

SOB vs Warburton
Sexton vs Farrell
Heaslip vs Faletau
BOD vs Davies
etc

Both Heaslip and Faletau have better all-round games than Vunipola - as you say though, Heaslip doesn't carry particularly forcefully.

As one of the NZ supporters, I can straight off say that Vunipola would strike the most fear: yes, he's a bit off a one-trick pony (although he is always improving his all-round game), but his one trick of absolutely monstering over the gain-line is the exact sort of thing required to beat NZ IMO.

Dog Botherer

Announced this morning that Richie Gray won't be available for the start of the tour because Toulouse won't release him. Definitely opens the door further for one of Henderson/Toner/Dillane to travel.

Yeah_Right

English Lurker wrote: »

I'm surprised people are so down on O'Mahony. If you want a blindside who impacts either the lineout or the breakdown, then he's fairly close to top of the queue in these isles, nevermind if you want both. Still, no one would be all that surprised to see SOB or Stander in a Lions shirt either, which was my point. There's plenty of quality Irish guys who'd fit nicely into a Lions jersey. The fact some of them would sit on the bench for a full strength Irish 23 only illustrates my point further.

I would strongly disagree with the idea that Heaslip has a significantly better all around game than Faletau and given how far behind he is both Faletau and Vunipola as a carrier, I'm inclined to see him as a distant third choice.

I can see Dillane touring - he has the raw materials - but there is a glut of hyper-athletic locks available, most of them further ahead in their development. I think he'd need a considerable lucky break. Still, I think its likely one of Henderson and Dillane goes, simply because one of them starts in the 6N and that's a big advantage.

Incidentally, no one's talking about Best going, but there's three hookers going and I don't see who the three better than him are. Only reason I don't see him making the test team are those pressure throws/the ominous feeling I have about Hartley as captain.

Finally...

If Gatland does stay true to type, you can bet he has his eyes on McCloskey. Don't know if he'll come through quickly enough this year but could happen. Besides, Gatland can always take a risk on a few players and stick them in the dirt trackers if it doesn't pay off. He's probably the closest thing to prime Jamie Roberts available these days (including Jamie Roberts).

That's so much like my thoughts it's scary. I'm wondering if I have a split personality. The likes of POM, SOB and Healy could all force their way in with a good, injury free season and a return to their top form. Heaslip is definitely behind Faletau and Vunipola but an injury to either puts him on the plane.

If Dillane progresses as much this season as he did last, he is in the conversation. He went from no where to being a certainty in the Irish 23.

I think there are several Irish players, including Best, who could push their way into the tour. They would need to have very good seasons because at the moment they're behind their competition. But there's no reason yet to say they're no chance.

Buer

People have very short memories in relation to POM. He's versatile, has some meanness to him and is an excellent player. I'd imagine he's a very strong personality around the camp too and one that would bring a lot to a squad setting. A real negative against him is the fact that Gatland has no prior exposure to him nor are any of the senior players likely to be Irish whose opinion may be sought.

As with any Lions squad, it's hugely dependent on the year that comes before it. Look at previous squads. You look at players that travelled or even made the test team and wonder how they did. They were simply the stand outs in that year. Hibbard, Cuthbert, Youngs, Ian Evans, Parling. All look peculiar now but all were the right calls at the time.

There are going to be guys going who haven't even been mentioned on this thread yet.

former total

Lydiate, if fit, is probably still the front runner for 6. POM is definitely good enough to travel but he needs a great season.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

O'Mahony may struggle to make the Irish team this season, never mind the Lions. Not sure about what contribution we may make to the forwards but my thoughts would be along the lines of:

Front row I'd expect Jack McGrath to travel, maybe Healy if he gets into form this season and Furlong / Moore if they have a good season may put their hands up but wouldn't currently be in consideration.

Second row only Henderson, Toner perhaps if there are injuries and we want a solid line out option but unlikely as he isn't dynamic enough around the park for a Lions selection (though he shamed DeJager and Eztebeth in the first SA test and they are arguable two best in the world). Ultan Dillane has the pedigree and could be in with a shout.

Back row Heaslip doesn't seem to be slowing down so wouldn't be surprised to see him travel as team captain. CJ has earned a right to be considered and if SOB get's back into any kind of form he'll be on the plane, at his near best he is good enough, at his best he is unparalleled.

Outside of that there are a bunch of guys in prime position to have serious break through seasons, will have to wait and see - add's an interesting context to the season though!

Heaslip hasn't a prayer of making the test team unfortunately, he may not even get to tour never mind captain.

Gatland picked two 8s last time, if he does the same again it'll definitely be Vunipola and Faletau barring injury.

Dog Botherer

former total wrote: »

Lydiate, if fit, is probably still the front runner for 6. POM is definitely good enough to travel but he needs a great season.

Lydiate's form has regressed to the point where Moriarty and Tipuric are putting his place in the matchday 23 at risk, never mind starting. Much like several other players mentioned above, he needs a big season.

awec

I think Dylan Hartley will be captain for what it's worth.

swiwi_

Who I would currently pick to try to defeat NZ. Grunt in the forwards, speed in the backs, niggly players to get Dane Coles a YC for retaliation, 3 lineout options (essential with NZ's defensive lineout at present).

15. Williams
14. Watson
13. Henshaw
12. Farrell
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Webb
8. Vunipola
7. Warburton
6. Stander
5. Itoje
4. Kruis
3. Cole
2. Hartley (c)
1. McGrath

Some of the Scottish centres might do better with a better calibre of player around them, could be dark horses for the squad.

Adbrowne

swiwi_ wrote: »

Who I would currently pick to try to defeat NZ. Grunt in the forwards, speed in the backs, niggly players to get Dane Coles a YC for retaliation, 3 lineout options (essential with NZ's defensive lineout at present).

15. Williams
14. Watson
13. Henshaw
12. Farrell
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Webb
8. Vunipola
7. Warburton
6. Stander
5. Itoje
4. Kruis
3. Cole
2. Hartley (c)
1. McGrath

Some of the Scottish centres might do better with a better calibre of player around them, could be dark horses for the squad.

If 3 lineout options are required then Henderson or Itoje at 6 with 2 from Kruis/gray /awj at lock is possblility. This 6n will be much better

swiwi_

Adbrowne wrote: »

If 3 lineout options are required then Henderson or Itoje at 6 with 2 from Kruis/gray /awj at lock is possblility. This 6n will be much better

Yeah, I went Kruis/Itoje/Warburton, but Warburton might not be good enough as a jumper.

At the moment Whitelock and Read are forming a formidable defensive lineout for NZ, and the Lions will definitely need more than just the 2 options at lock.

I think Itoje is better at lock than 6, but lots of people are sticking him at 6.

Stander/Lydiate/POM etc are not really great lineout options at 6 I don't think....maybe Stephen Jones will suggest Tom Croft :P

Adbrowne

Buer wrote: »

People have very short memories in relation to POM. He's versatile, has some meanness to him and is an excellent player. I'd imagine he's a very strong personality around the camp too and one that would bring a lot to a squad setting. A real negative against him is the fact that Gatland has no prior exposure to him nor are any of the senior players likely to be Irish whose opinion may be sought.

Competition in the backrow is massive and he has been out for a year. He is directly competing against some for 6/8 but there is a lot of competition for 6-7 spots and barring injury (and major form drops) I would say Warburton, Faletau, Billy V and Haskell are on the plane.

Backrow options By country ......
Stander, SoB, Heaslip and Henderson
Hardie, Strauss
Lydiate, Faletau, Warburton, Tipuric, Moriarty (Davies from GB 7s is a dark horse)
Billy V, Haskell, Robshaw and Hughes. Clifford too if he has big year

No way is AWJ not starting. I think he'll be captain tbh.

Adbrowne

swiwi_ wrote: »

Yeah, I went Kruis/Itoje/Warburton, but Warburton might not be good enough as a jumper.

At the moment Whitelock and Read are forming a formidable defensive lineout for NZ, and the Lions will definitely need more than just the 2 options at lock.

I think Itoje is better at lock than 6, but lots of people are sticking him at 6.

Stander/Lydiate/POM etc are not really great lineout options at 6 I don't think....maybe Stephen Jones will suggest Tom Croft :P

a lot depends on Itoje (and Henderson). If they are brought as locks only, or will Gatland look at a forward dominance game (think its only way Lions can win).

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

No way is AWJ not starting. I think he'll be captain tbh.

Would be delighted myself. Form has been average. Maybe he picks it up for the 6N.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

Would be delighted myself. Form has been average. Maybe he picks it up for the 6N.

Big game player though.

Hippo

swiwi_ wrote: »

15. Williams
14. Watson
13. Henshaw
12. Farrell
11. North
10. Sexton
9. Webb
8. Vunipola
7. Warburton
6. Stander
5. Itoje
4. Kruis
3. Cole
2. Hartley (c)
1. McGrath

Hard to argue with most of that, though I think I'd prefer Murray at 9

wp_rathead

Hippo wrote: »

Hard to argue with most of that, though I think I'd prefer Murray at 9

Ah no, a fit Rhys Webb is probably best scrum half in Northern Hemisphere (I say this as a Murray fan)

flangemeistro

On what form is everyone basing Sextons starting position at 10?
He's a defensive liability the way he tackles and is nearly guaranteed to go off the pitch with the aid of a medic and an ice pack on his head at around 60 minutes.
All Johnnys credit that he had in the bank is long spent and he's constantly dipping into his overdraft.
Farrell, Biggar and Ford are definitely ahead in the pecking order and after the Six Nations Russell might even be ahead of him.

molloyjh

flangemeistro wrote: »

He's a defensive liability the way he tackles ...

What!? Sexton is one of the best defensive 10s going. Whatever about the rest of the post (Sextons form hasn't been great lately all right) the above is just nonsense. He isn't playing as badly as you're making out though. He actually played some really good stuff during the 6Ns and has been part of a seriously underperforming Leinster squad. How much of that has been him, and how much those around him is hard to say.

English Lurker

Deleted User wrote: »

No way is AWJ not starting. I think he'll be captain tbh.

Not if he keeps playing the way he's been doing this year so far. I suppose Gatland could do so anyway but on recent showings I don't think he should be on the plane.

Few other points...

- Nathan Hughes is off the boil for Wasps. Needs a big season.

- Vunipola's all round game is coming on nicely to be fair. A lot more getting over the ball at the breakdown (where he is a nightmare to move).

- Lydiate would be another mistake. Also, based on what Gatland said about looking for pace/footwork/size/power, I think Lydiate might be for the chop for this tour.

- I greatly prefer Murray's decision making to Webb's.

Felix Jones is God

awec wrote: »

I think Dylan Hartley will be captain for what it's worth.

Best choice overall regardless of what some may think

molloyjh

molloyjh wrote: »

What!? Sexton is one of the best defensive 10s going. Whatever about the rest of the post (Sextons form hasn't been great lately all right) the above is just nonsense. He isn't playing as badly as you're making out though. He actually played some really good stuff during the 6Ns and has been part of a seriously underperforming Leinster squad. How much of that has been him, and how much those around him is hard to say.

Sexton was all over the shop last season and was clearly carrying multiple injuries from before the six nations. Leinster couldn't afford not to play him and Ireland were trying to utilise him as sparingly as possible.

I would hope that his health is spot on and he is good to go this season. We have a decent shot at the 6N this year but need both him and Jackson to be on form, our game is more reliant on effective distribution (kicking and passing) from our outhalves than other teams so it's noticable when our first choice guys aren't available.

The most positive aspect of the SA tour was how well Jackson has matured and it's odd that he hasn't been mentioned at all regarding the Lions, big season ahead could do wonders for a player that seems to have stepped up lately.

sydthebeat

English Lurker wrote: »

- Lydiate would be another mistake. Also, based on what Gatland said about looking for pace/footwork/size/power, I think Lydiate might be for the chop for this tour.
.

;);)

we see what you did there !

awec

Can't see Jackson getting ahead of Sexton or Biggar.

Only two 10s went last time, and I presume Farrell will travel as a 10/12 option.

Bigbok

molloyjh wrote: »

What!? Sexton is one of the best defensive 10s going. Whatever about the rest of the post (Sextons form hasn't been great lately all right) the above is just nonsense. He isn't playing as badly as you're making out though. He actually played some really good stuff during the 6Ns and has been part of a seriously underperforming Leinster squad. How much of that has been him, and how much those around him is hard to say.

TBH sexton must have the worst tackle technique in any 10,always gets his head the wrong side of a tackle and that's going to cause him a serious injury one day

flogthebog

what size of a squad do the lions travel with. with 10 competitive games after an attritional season you would think the best part of 60 players. obviously for the tests you need your primary 15 plus backup 15. then you need teams to play the secondary games with further backup players

Adbrowne

flogthebog wrote: »

what size of a squad do the lions travel with. with 10 competitive games after an attritional season you would think the best part of 60 players. obviously for the tests you need your primary 15 plus backup 15. then you need teams to play the secondary games with further backup players

I think 37 went in original party last time and a further 11-12 were called up at different stages of the tour.

awec

awec wrote: »

I think Dylan Hartley will be captain for what it's worth.

I was chatting to a guy in work about this yesterday and we really struggled for candidates outside of him and Warburton. I think you could be right.

sydthebeat

flogthebog wrote: »

what size of a squad do the lions travel with. with 10 competitive games after an attritional season you would think the best part of 60 players. obviously for the tests you need your primary 15 plus backup 15. then you need teams to play the secondary games with further backup players

2013 had 10 games as well, and they travelled with 37 initally but called up 4 more as cover due to injuries

will probably travel this time with 38ish

flogthebog

Adbrowne wrote: »

I think 37 went in original party last time and a further 11-12 were called up at different stages of the tour.

wow, thats a surprisingly low number. ireland had 32 players in SA for a 3 match series.

awec

I'd say the same number but the games this time are much more difficult. The NZ super rugby franchises are much stronger for a start, also there is no gimme game like in 2013 in the middle of the series (the combined county one), instead there is a game against the AB Maoris.

Would expect 37/38 to tour and players to drop like flies all through the tour.

flogthebog

well if they depart same weekend as pro12/ english premiership final (think I am correct on this?) and play first game same weekend as top14 final you would have to think they must be departing with a secondary squad? Which is why I thought the squad numbers would be higher than suggested

awec

It was the same last time if I remember right, the barbarians game overlapped.

bilston

The centres may be a bit of a problem. There aren't really any standouts. Davies at his best is the 13, what about 12. Gatland will probably favour Roberts, not because he's Welsh, but because he is big. I have a feeling Farrell may be 10.

Right now I'd have Hogg at 15 and North and probably Williams on the wing. Apart from North are there any other outstanding wingers? Williams is a top player, admittedly mainly from 15. I'd go Murray at 9. He's big and physical, Gatland will like that.

15 Hogg
14 Williams
13 Davies
12 Roberts
11 North
10 Farrell
9 Murray

Forwards wise, I'd say Haskell, Warburton and Vunipola in the back row. Itoje and Kruis in the second row, although I'm a huge AWJ fan and ideally would have him as skipper.

McGrath and Hartley at 1 and 2. Samson Lee maybe at TH. Cole and Nel being the other options.

Bolter wise it will be interesting to see what sort of season Furlong has.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

molloyjh wrote: »

What!? Sexton is one of the best defensive 10s going. Whatever about the rest of the post (Sextons form hasn't been great lately all right) the above is just nonsense. He isn't playing as badly as you're making out though. He actually played some really good stuff during the 6Ns and has been part of a seriously underperforming Leinster squad. How much of that has been him, and how much those around him is hard to say.

Sexton was all over the shop last season and was clearly carrying multiple injuries from before the six nations. Leinster couldn't afford not to play him and Ireland were trying to utilise him as sparingly as possible.

I would hope that his health is spot on and he is good to go this season. We have a decent shot at the 6N this year but need both him and Jackson to be on form, our game is more reliant on effective distribution (kicking and passing) from our outhalves than other teams so it's noticable when our first choice guys aren't available.

The most positive aspect of the SA tour was how well Jackson has matured and it's odd that he hasn't been mentioned at all regarding the Lions, big season ahead could do wonders for a player that seems to have stepped up lately.

Regular posters will know that I'm a big Jackson supporter but while certainly not impossible there are a lot of quality 10s in Britain and Ireland. Farrell, Sexton, Biggar, Ford and Russell for a start, watch this space regarding Henry Slade as well. Sam Davies is another potential bolter. The issue for Slade and Davies is that they may be moved from pillar to post position wise. Jackson has a chance but given that as things stand he is likely to be No.2 for Ireland and given he lacks versatility then I think he'll need an injury to Sexton to get a look in.

bmwguy

I have completely gone off lions tours. I will watch the matches but I have found myself completely indifferent to whether they win or lose. I don't see them representing me like I do with the Ireland team.

I was on the tour in south Africa 09, was great trip, so much to do and see plus you knew there was big rugby on everywhere you went people were talking about it. I was in Australia in 2013 when it was on and it was rubbish, I only went to 1 midweek match didn't bother with the tests, the Australian people for the most part had no interest.

Firstly, picking a lions team this far out, while it's a bit of fun, is a fallacy. Things change so much, injuries and form.

New Zealand at the moment are awesome, 2 world cups in a row, lose a lot of their starting team this year and somehow they seem better. Lions have a very slim chance of winning a test never mind the series. In fact, from what I hear about the super rugby sides and the maoris lining up the strongest sides they can I think the lions will win only 4 or 5 of the 10 matches.

I know times have changed and player welfare is different than it was but you are looking at 45-48 players touring that's at least 3 full starting teams from the 4 nations it chooses from. So realistically 3 out of every 4 international regulars will be a Lions player next year, its so diluted now.

Interestingly, Warren G has said Ireland players have a great chance to put up their hands for selection by virtue of playing new Zealand twice in November, but equally what damage will be done if there are 2 hidings?