Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

Ethel.

I'm almost serious at this stage.

You can see how Howley is going to get the gig then. He's the best positioned of a really bad bunch. He has done the Lions gig before, will have done a huge amount of homework on NZ already this year and his CV isn't actually that bad.

Now that all goes against the fact that his backlines have been brutal and he seems to have no influence over his players currently but I can understand why he's going to be the man on the plane.

molloyjh

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't know. I do find it odd that the unions are resisting releasing their coaches. Wouldn't the unions make more money from a winning series? Think of the merchandise sales alone.

If Townsend were in place a year I reckon the SRU might release him, but releasing him at the start of his contract is another thing. We also don't really know if Townsend wants to do the tour. Same with Joe. Joe has spoken about wanting to get a look at the wider squad. He's been working hard to build depth the last few years and this is a big opportunity for him to do that. Maybe he wants to commit to that job rather than take up the Lions one. Townsend may be similar.

former total

Buer wrote: »

You can see how Howley is going to get the gig then. He's the best positioned of a really bad bunch. He has done the Lions gig before, will have done a huge amount of homework on NZ already this year and his CV isn't actually that bad.

Now that all goes against the fact that his backlines have been brutal and he seems to have no influence over his players currently but I can understand why he's going to be the man on the plane.

... and he keeps picking Alex Cuthbert.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

You can see how Howley is going to get the gig then. He's the best positioned of a really bad bunch. He has done the Lions gig before, will have done a huge amount of homework on NZ already this year and his CV isn't actually that bad.

Now that all goes against the fact that his backlines have been brutal and he seems to have no influence over his players currently but I can understand why he's going to be the man on the plane.

Yeah, the calm and objective me knows that. Having broken the bank to go on the 2013 tour only to see us struggle against the worst Australian side I can remember I just grimace at the thought of what we'll be like in NZ.

thomond2006

former total wrote: »

... and he keeps picking Alex Cuthbert.

I now have images of Beauden Barrett kicking behind Cuthbert for 80 minutes. Oh boy.

Buer

former total wrote: »

... and he keeps picking Alex Cuthbert.

An inanimate object would be more useful than him.

Perhaps a tube of Pringles.

bilston

Wales might be grateful if the Lions demand Howley steps down to focus on the Lions...

There must be a club coach out there they could look at?

awec

bilston wrote: »

Wales might be grateful if the Lions demand Howley steps down to focus on the Lions...

There must be a club coach out there they could look at?

I know of two they should take.

molloyjh

bilston wrote: »

Wales might be grateful if the Lions demand Howley steps down to focus on the Lions...

There must be a club coach out there they could look at?

There is one that springs to mind who, according to his official bio, "is credited with transforming [his team] into one of the most potent attacking sides in Europe".

Yes, you guessed it....

EDIT: Damn you awec!!!!

awec

Please tell me his official bio doesn't actually say that?

Edit: it does. I despair.

irishbucsfan

I would pay good money to see ulsterrugby.com if it had all it's copy rewritten by awec

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would pay good money to see ulsterrugby.com if it had all it's copy rewritten by awec

Would def beat Frannos wiki page anyway! Get Jaco in for the craic too....

Buer

bilston wrote: »

Wales might be grateful if the Lions demand Howley steps down to focus on the Lions...

There must be a club coach out there they could look at?

I posted previously that the options would fall to guys like:


Mike Catt - sacked England backs coach

Mark McCall - not a hope he'll touch it and has no international coaching experience or existing relationship with the Lions or Gatland

Alex King - Sacked ("mutual consent") by Northampton a few weeks ago

Jason O'Halloran - Scottish backs coach. Only in the job a year and never coached at a higher level than NPC prior to that.

Mark Mapletoft - Again, no experience at a high level or relationship with the Lions

Aaron Mauger - Not a hope

So, in closing, welcome aboard Rob Howley.

thomond2006

Awec should be given a section of a newspaper to write his weekly Ulster Rugby: Woe is Us column.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Awec should be given a section of a newspaper to write his weekly Ulster Rugby: Woe is Us column.

An 'Agonising Aunt' instead of an 'Agony Aunt'?

pickarooney

Woejus more like.

irishbucsfan

pickarooney wrote: »

Woejus more like.

Awec's Weekly Woejus Whinefest, every monday morning in the Belfast Telegraph

blackhound

There seems to be a lot of talk of Furlong for the Lions no and certainly he has done his chances no harm at all. Now that the Autumn internationals are over for Ireland what Irish players do you think will be included? Obviously the six nations will decide a lot of the players but as of right now the players I think will travel are:
McGrath
Best
Furlong
Toner
Stander
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

Others who may have a chance are Ringrose, Dillane, Henderson and Van Der Flier. Obviously back row is a hugely competitive area throughout the 4 nations. I'd love to see Ringrose brought but I can't help but think Gatland will not bring too many bolters and most will be more experienced internationals

Edit: Also Cian Healy is probably a good shout too.

Rainman16

The Autumn internationals will really have put allot more Irish names into consideration for Lions selection, But It's really too early to tell. If any of the Irish guys who have impressed in the last 4 games end up having a bad 6 nations campaign then they won't be going. Nobodies place is guaranteed,

Kal El

blackhound wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of talk of Furlong for the Lions no and certainly he has done his chances no harm at all. Now that the Autumn internationals are over for Ireland what Irish players do you think will be included? Obviously the six nations will decide a lot of the players but as of right now the players I think will travel are:
McGrath
Best
Furlong
Toner
Stander
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

Others who may have a chance are Ringrose, Dillane, Henderson and Van Der Flier. Obviously back row is a hugely competitive area throughout the 4 nations. I'd love to see Ringrose brought but I can't help but think Gatland will not bring too many bolters and most will be more experienced internationals

Edit: Also Cian Healy is probably a good shout too.

It begins :pac:
What chance does Ringrose have when he was only played because of injuries and wont start in the 6 nations over Payne and Henshaw.

blackhound

Oh absolutely, nothing guaranteed at this point but a number of players barring injuries or serious lack of form are almost guaranteed to travel. Murray for one is a shoe in.

blackhound

I didn't say I think Ringrose will travel or even that he should just that I personally would love to see it but considering I have absolutely no say in the Lions picks I don't think Gatland could care less what I think.

molloyjh

It would probably be best for Ireland and Ringrose himself if he didn't go with the Lions. And with the level of competition he'll have, plus the fact he won't be a starter in the 6Ns but for injuries, I can't see it happening.

irishbucsfan

Kal El wrote: »

It begins :pac:
What chance does Ringrose have when he was only played because of injuries and wont start in the 6 nations over Payne and Henshaw.

Well keep they do normally bring a couple of bolters. Like Earls in 2009 and Christian Wade in 2013

Morris Moss

blackhound wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of talk of Furlong for the Lions no and certainly he has done his chances no harm at all. Now that the Autumn internationals are over for Ireland what Irish players do you think will be included? Obviously the six nations will decide a lot of the players but as of right now the players I think will travel are:
McGrath
Best
Furlong
Toner
Stander
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

Others who may have a chance are Ringrose, Dillane, Henderson and Van Der Flier. Obviously back row is a hugely competitive area throughout the 4 nations. I'd love to see Ringrose brought but I can't help but think Gatland will not bring too many bolters and most will be more experienced internationals

Edit: Also Cian Healy is probably a good shout too.

Agree with everyone bar Toner and Heaslip, I'm not saying they won't go but competition for the second row is unbelievable and Vuinipola and Falateau seem to be favourite for the 8 shirt, also if O'Brien could stay fit he's a shoe in, but it's very debatable if he can.

FellasFellas

blackhound wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of talk of Furlong for the Lions no and certainly he has done his chances no harm at all. Now that the Autumn internationals are over for Ireland what Irish players do you think will be included? Obviously the six nations will decide a lot of the players but as of right now the players I think will travel are:
McGrath
Best
Furlong
Toner
Stander
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Henshaw

Others who may have a chance are Ringrose, Dillane, Henderson and Van Der Flier. Obviously back row is a hugely competitive area throughout the 4 nations. I'd love to see Ringrose brought but I can't help but think Gatland will not bring too many bolters and most will be more experienced internationals

Edit: Also Cian Healy is probably a good shout too.

Toner might struggle, considering Gatland will probably bring AWJ plus Itoje and Kruis, then you have Launchbury, Lawes and Jonny Gray and Henderson all fighting for probably 6 spots in the row judging by 2013 selection. Henderson and Itoje might have an edge because they can both play 6.

I'd say McGrath, Best and Furlong will all travel with Healy maybe going as 3rd choice loosey. Stander should travel and Gatland does like O'Brien so definite chance there. Heaslip does have a great chance but knowing Gatland, he brings Faletau and Vunipola as his 8's.

If I had to pick a squad based on Autumn Internationals and Gatlands probable ideas now; I'd go for:

Mako Vunipola
McGrath
Healy

Hartley
Best
Jamie George

Cole
Furlong
Nel/Sinckler/Lee

Itoje
Henderson
Kruis/Jonny Gray
Launchbury/Toner
AWJ

Tipuric
Faletau
Robshaw
Billy Vunipola
Warburton
Stander
Haskell*
Sean O'Brien*
Lydiate*
JVDF*
Ross Moriarty*

Murray
Laidlaw
Care/Youngs

Ford
Farrell
Sexton

Huw Jones
Henshaw
Roberts
Davies

North
Liam Williams
May
An.Other - Watson, Cuthbert, etc

Hogg
Brown
Halfpenny

That's 38, he brought 37 last time round, so looking at something similar this time. Be interesting to see anyone elses views!

Lake1989

FellasFellas wrote: »

Toner might struggle, considering Gatland will probably bring AWJ plus Itoje and Kruis, then you have Launchbury, Lawes and Jonny Gray and Henderson all fighting for probably 6 spots in the row judging by 2013 selection. Henderson and Itoje might have an edge because they can both play 6.

I'd say McGrath, Best and Furlong will all travel with Healy maybe going as 3rd choice loosey. Stander should travel and Gatland does like O'Brien so definite chance there. Heaslip does have a great chance but knowing Gatland, he brings Faletau and Vunipola as his 8's.

If I had to pick a squad based on Autumn Internationals and Gatlands probable ideas now; I'd go for:

Mako Vunipola
McGrath
Healy

Hartley
Best
Jamie George

Cole
Furlong
Nel/Sinckler/Lee

Itoje
Henderson
Kruis/Jonny Gray
Launchbury/Toner
AWJ

Tipuric
Faletau
Robshaw
Billy Vunipola
Warburton
Stander
Haskell*
Sean O'Brien*
Lydiate*
JVDF*
Ross Moriarty*

Murray
Laidlaw
Care/Youngs

Ford
Farrell
Sexton

Huw Jones
Henshaw
Roberts
Davies

North
Liam Williams
May
An.Other - Watson, Cuthbert, etc

Hogg
Brown
Halfpenny

That's 38, he brought 37 last time round, so looking at something similar this time. Be interesting to see anyone elses views!

I think Toner, Ringrose and Zebo are in with a shout if they can have a strong 6n.

Amazed no one has mentioned Nagle yet.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well keep they do normally bring a couple of bolters. Like Earls in 2009 and Christian Wade in 2013

Christian Wade was a late call up I think. The bolter for that tour was Stuart Hogg I think.

jm08

Morris Moss wrote: »

Agree with everyone bar Toner and Heaslip, I'm not saying they won't go but competition for the second row is unbelievable and Vuinipola and Falateau seem to be favourite for the 8 shirt, also if O'Brien could stay fit he's a shoe in, but it's very debatable if he can.

SOB will need a decent injury free run before he is brought. He won't be much use if he keeps breaking down the way he is at the moment. He might just prolong his career if he stayed at home next summer.

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

SOB will need a decent injury free run before he is brought. He won't be much use if he keeps breaking down the way he is at the moment. He might just prolong his career if he stayed at home next summer.

Don't disagree. Feel the same about Sexton, but if picked both will want to go.

Lake1989

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't disagree. Feel the same about Sexton, but if picked both will want to go.

Would they? Could the IRFU not have a word about them taking a decent summer break for their own sakes.

Bazzo

FellasFellas wrote: »

...
Murray
Laidlaw
Care/Youngs
...

That's 38, he brought 37 last time round, so looking at something similar this time. Be interesting to see anyone elses views!

You think Gatland will travel with no Welsh scrummies? :P

I wouldn't be surprised for both Webb and Davies to travel, Webb on merit deserves it and Davies is no slouch either tbh.

FellasFellas

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well keep they do normally bring a couple of bolters. Like Earls in 2009 and Christian Wade in 2013

Bazzo wrote: »

You think Gatland will travel with no Welsh scrummies? :P

I wouldn't be surprised for both Webb and Davies to travel, Webb on merit deserves it and Davies is no slouch either tbh.

I picked Huw Jones as my bolter, watched him for Stormers this season and was so impressed; delighted he took his chance this autumn. Would say he stands a huge chance of travelling.

Yeah was debating that, perhaps one of them will go; a lot of it depends on the 6 Nations, a Slam for England could heavily sway decisions.

Lake1989

Lake1989 wrote: »

Would they? Could the IRFU not have a word about them taking a decent summer break for their own sakes.

I would imagine you'd need to lock them in a cell to stop them touring if they're fit. It's nuts to think they won't go if selected.

Morris Moss

Laidlaw has no chance of going, he's not needed for his kicking and his nowhere near as dangerous as Murray, Webb, Youngs or any other number of scrum half's.

Fleawuss

At the risk of being shot I'm going to say that a Lions tour is going to shorten the international career of some of our players if they go. We have had a nightmare with injuries. The Lions tour should be managed by the IRFU so that we can use it as a rest period and our competitors supply the bulk of the team and get broken up. I'm sorry for being cynical.

Lake1989

Fleawuss wrote: »

At the risk of being shot I'm going to say that a Lions tour is going to shorten the international career of some of our players if they go. We have had a nightmare with injuries. The Lions tour should be managed by the IRFU so that we can use it as a rest period and our competitors supply the bulk of the team and get broken up. I'm sorry for being cynical.

Lions tours didnt shorten careers of other irish players like O'Driscoll or O'Connell. A few guys like O'Brien, Sexton could probably do with a full summer off.

thomond2006

The Lions is a big moneymaker for all parties. Perhaps some of the Irish players should take a rest, but they won't.

munsterlegend

Fleawuss wrote: »

At the risk of being shot I'm going to say that a Lions tour is going to shorten the international career of some of our players if they go. We have had a nightmare with injuries. The Lions tour should be managed by the IRFU so that we can use it as a rest period and our competitors supply the bulk of the team and get broken up. I'm sorry for being cynical.

Have to agree that the Lions is a danger to our players injury wise. It has no place in professional rugby only that I am sure it's a marketing success and somebody makes money.

It's a big deal to the players. Very obvious in the way they talk about it and countless players have referred to their Lions selection as a career highlight.

Also, why would Sean o'Brien take the summer off? He just took 10 months off.

thomond2006

munsterlegend wrote: »

Have to agree that the Lions is a danger to our players injury wise. It has no place in professional rugby only that I am sure it's a marketing success and somebody makes money.

EVERYONE makes money. Think about it: If it wasn't lucrative for the players then would it exist?

However IMHO if Sexton does go and play all three tests then I think he should rest for the remainder of 2017 if he wants to make 2019. Plenty NZ players have taken sabbaticals to prolong their careers so there's a precedent here.

munsterlegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

EVERYONE makes money. Think about it: If it wasn't lucrative for the players then would it exist?

However IMHO if Sexton does go and play all three tests then I think he should rest for the remainder of 2017 if he wants to make 2019. Plenty NZ players have taken sabbaticals to prolong their careers so there's a precedent here.

Sexton would be injured in the first test if he even made it that far and that would be the end of it. Agree he needs a rest from the game for a prolonged period.

As for the Lions from a purely professional sport perspective it's a nonsense whatever the financial gains. Hopefully gatland won't pick too many Irish lads.

FellasFellas

Billy Vunipola's chances just taken a huge hit, out for 3 months with knee surgery, misses full Six Nations. Heaslip's odds just got a lot shorter.

The Lost Sheep

munsterlegend wrote: »

Sexton would be injured in the first test if he even made it that far and that would be the end of it. Agree he needs a rest from the game for a prolonged period.

As for the Lions from a purely professional sport perspective it's a nonsense whatever the financial gains. Hopefully gatland won't pick too many Irish lads.

I hope he does. Its better for us. We then get to look at more players on our trip to Japan as a result and aren't we also due to play the US next summer in a test?
If not picked with Lions we would have guys travelling across world for those tests...

awec

FellasFellas wrote: »

Billy Vunipola's chances just taken a huge hit, out for 3 months with knee surgery, misses full Six Nations. Heaslip's odds just got a lot shorter.

Vunipola is a cert to travel if he is fit next summer. Don't think missing the six nations is much of an issue in his case.

irishbucsfan

Form will hardly matter. And people will freak out over it. It's a certainty.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Form will hardly matter. And people will freak out over it. It's a certainty.

Form will absolutely matter for the fringe players, but there is a core selection of guys who are certain picks if they are fit when the time comes.

Lake1989

awec wrote: »

Form will absolutely matter for the fringe players, but there is a core selection of guys who are certain picks if they are fit when the time comes.

Vunipola had a knee operation, how long is he expected to be out for?

Stheno

Lake1989 wrote: »

Vunipola had a knee operation, how long is he expected to be out for?

Three months.

This may be heresy but I'd not be surprised to see both sexton and sob retire next year due to injuries