UFC 203: Miocic v Overeem

johnpatrick81

He(and Gall) took up a spot on a main card. If have much preferred to see an actual fight. It also cost someone a pay day. It was just crap all round imo

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

He(and Gall) took up a spot on a main card. If have much preferred to see an actual fight. It also cost someone a pay day. It was just crap all round imo

Sure since when is prize fighting fair? What is fair is what people want to see and UFC taught people might want to see CM Punk. You can be the best in the world and win 100 fights but if no one wants to watch you fight then tough sh!t

johnpatrick81

I know, and I get why it happened. It's just another business decision. I'm only a fan 3 years or so but to me these types of decisions are getting more prominent.

Someone posted recently about the loss of importance in the belts risking harm in the long run. Yes it's all about the money but a balance between actual talent and entertainment would be perfect. I think it's in danger of losing that balance.

mdwexford

Cain will maul any of those chumps from last night.

Werdum kicking Edmond was amazing.

Overeem had a very strange gameplan.

Bizarre night for sure.

Mellor

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

The thing I don't like about the punk fight is he did not earn his place. For thousands of Mma fighters, UFC is the holy grail. He just jumped the queue and cost a genuine fighter a chance.

There's no way he cost anyone a chance. If this fight never happened, that main card slot would be filled by two ranked fighters. Punk didn't bump anyone from the roster. The two fighters that didn't appear will just appear next month instead.
If anything Punk has helped a genuine fighter by given Mickey Gall a bump into the UFC. He'll fight a few low tier guys and could stick around if he does well.

kwestfan08 wrote: »

Punk v Gall went about as well as it could have. It was lob sided sure but at least Punk put up a bit of a fight from the bottom. He looked like a guy with an 0-0 record making his debut but he didn't look worse than that.

When was the last time that you seen a debut pro fighter that didn't know how to throw a punch?


(Above snipped from Fight Highlight Gif)

He nowhere near the level of a 0-0 pro. Gall was a 0-0 pro 10 months ago.
Don't confusing surviving for 2 minutes with putting up a fight from the bottom.
Punk splashed about and manage to keep his head up for a bit, but at no point was he doing anything other than drowning.

wonderfullife

The only positive note for CM Punk is that you can make a favourable comparison to the James Toney episode.

Say what you want about Punk, but he did show a BASIC knowledge of the types of things he needed to do when taken down. He posted. That's a good start. He initially had Gall in his full guard. He hand fought. etc.

Toney just went in swinging.

Now, that being said - what we witnessed was a White Belt in his late 30's rolling around with a 24 year old Brown Belt.

In that respect, I feel Mickey Gall totally messed up his chance.

Here was a golden chance for Gall. Keep the fight on the feet and KO the pro wrestler.

He took the path of least resistance, straight for the takedown and choke.

That, to me, was never going to do much for him going forwards. But if he had a vicious KO standing, it'd have been on every highlight reel for years.

Golden chance passed up.

EagererBeaver

The aim of a fight is to beat the other guy while shipping as little damage as possible. In that respect, Gall executed things perfectly.

This attitude some MMA fans have that a fight should end in a devastating KO is ****ing moronic. It's either an athletic contest, or it's no more than a street fight. You don't get to claim it's sport and then demand the manner in which someone should win.

johnpatrick81

Mellor wrote: »

There's no way he cost anyone a chance. If this fight never happened, that main card slot would be filled by two ranked fighters. Punk didn't bump anyone from the roster. The two fighters that didn't appear will just appear next month instead.
If anything Punk has helped a genuine fighter by given Mickey Gall a bump into the UFC. He'll fight a few low tier guys and could stick around if he does well

Fair enough.
Fact is he got very well paid when lots of legit fighters are not.

It cost me a legitimate fight the other night.

Farcical. Like Real Madrid giving the actor who played Nunez in Goal an actual appearance. UFC is becoming more of a circus than it should be.

Depp

Overeem via Submission

mdwexford wrote: »

Cain will maul any of those chumps from last night.

Werdum kicking Edmond was amazing.

Overeem had a very strange gameplan.

Bizarre night for sure.

I dunno I think stipe would definitely put it up to cain, fight I'd love to see actually

Paully D

Confirmed $500k payout for CM Punk for this.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

martyos121

Paully D wrote: »

Confirmed $500k payout for CM Punk for this.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why do either? He was payed for getting eyes on the event and with his name he did that more than any other fighter on the card by a distance. His payout is completely fair, and so is whatever cut of the PPV buys he'll receive too. The UFC is a business, they don't pay fighters based on their talent alone and never have.

ASOT

Paully D wrote: »

Confirmed $500k payout for CM Punk for this.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Im more shocked the reem managed to somehow get an extra 300k with his new contract haha

riffmongous

Overeem via Submission

Well the current estimate for ppv buys is 600-700k, and considering most of the other non RR/McG ppvs do around 250-400k (Werdum-Miocic did 350k) Punk was probably worth the money. I'd say the UFC must be annoyed he lost so badly that they cant use him again

511

riffmongous wrote: »

I'd say the UFC must be annoyed he lost so badly that they cant use him again

Their fault for pitting Punk against a young, talented, up-and-coming fighter. Should've given him a jobber.

finglashoop

Overeem via Submission

511 wrote: »

Their fault for pitting Punk against a young, talented, up-and-coming fighter. Should've giving him a jobber.

He is the jobber.

jcd5971

Should have brought back pendred he'd have been perfect

511

finglashoop wrote: »

He is the jobber.

He was for Gall, that became obvious after the fight and veteran MMA fans knew Punk didn't stand a chance from the day one, but they could have found someone around Punk's skill level and experience to fight - it would it least give us something to watch and hope for. They've could made more money from Punk with more fights, but less people are interested in him now.

511

Look familiar?

https://twitter.com/Skip2MyJays/status/775203328267608064

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

martyos121 wrote: »

Why do either? He was payed for getting eyes on the event and with his name he did that more than any other fighter on the card by a distance. His payout is completely fair, and so is whatever cut of the PPV buys he'll receive too. The UFC is a business, they don't pay fighters based on their talent alone and never have.

He mightn't be due to receive PPV points although some of his interviews would lead you to think he is alright...it is out there that he wouldn't have received a win bonus were he to have got the W.

Agree getting more eyes to the sport is what the UFC invested in and going by early reports it was worth their time as this card would expect in or around 300k buys otherwise. James Toney got paid the same at UFC118 and didn't generate as much buys as being predicted here. The payout he got combined with the fight outcome leads me to believe realistically the UFC don't schedule him for another bout.

Fair from a promotion standpoint to pay the man for the draw of the CM Punk character but from a sporting perspective a 0-0 rookie got paid more than say Werdum a legit martial artist and former champ that sucks

The Rock who also came from WWE was the highest paid actor last year IMO atrocious actor, he has a lot of allure from his wrasslin' days and could be starring in the trashiest of flicks Fast and the furious 78 or whatever but cleans up at the box office.

martyos121

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

He mightn't be due to receive PPV points although some of his interviews would lead you to think he is alright...it is out there that he wouldn't have received a win bonus were he to have got the W.

Agree getting more eyes to the sport is what the UFC invested in and going by early reports it was worth their time as this card would expect in or around 300k buys otherwise. James Toney got paid the same at UFC118 and didn't generate as much buys as being predicted here. The payout he got combined with the fight outcome leads me to believe realistically the UFC don't schedule him for another bout.

Fair from a promotion standpoint to pay the man for the draw of the CM Punk character but from a sporting perspective a 0-0 rookie got paid more than say Werdum a legit martial artist and former champ that sucks

The Rock who also came from WWE was the highest paid actor last year IMO atrocious actor, he has a lot of allure from his wrasslin' days and could be starring in the trashiest of flicks Fast and the furious 78 or whatever but cleans up at the box office.

That's just the way the world works unfortunately. Actual talent is always secondary to the brand itself. All down to effective marketing and a good Twitter following these days, you can get paid significantly better for nearly everything just for that alone.

The good thing is though that the very, very best are usually the highest paid in every sport and in some forms of entertainment, it just sucks for everyone else.

It's nice to see Punk get a big payday though, the amount of legitimate physical abuse he took in that fight vs the amount he took in pro wrestling is massively better value for himself. I'd much sooner step into the octagon for a quick beating with a good referee to stop it in time than earn the same amount of money in a year of pro-wrestling with all the injuries that come with it (which you often have to work through). I know why his pay would rub some people the wrong way but there's no reason for it to offend anyone, he was paid what he's worth.

Go Tobban

wonderfullife wrote: »

Calderwood by KO
Faber by submission
Werdum by submission
Reem by death bomb flying switch kick/knee

Never get big in to the aul betting:D

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

martyos121 wrote: »

It's nice to see Punk get a big payday though, the amount of legitimate physical abuse he took in that fight vs the amount he took in pro wrestling is massively better value for himself. I'd much sooner step into the octagon for a quick beating with a good referee to stop it in time than earn the same amount of money in a year of pro-wrestling with all the injuries that come with it (which you often have to work through). I know why his pay would rub some people the wrong way but there's no reason for it to offend anyone, he was paid what he's worth.

Can grasp why he got paid for what he brought to the table that's fine but I don't understand how it was nice to see him get paid.

Wrestling is just stuntmen starring in a soap, sure injuries could happen but they're not guaranteed. As far as I'm aware CM Punk was a millionaire from his time in WWE that sort of money you mention I'm assuming can only be made in WWE as it's far and away the biggest brand in the wrestling industry. Some chap in a random mexican mask is probably bouncing off the ropes in a warehouse somewhere workin for jam.

martyos121

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Can grasp why he got paid for what he brought to the table that's fine but I don't understand how it was nice to see him get paid.

Wrestling is just stuntmen starring in a soap, sure injuries could happen but they're not guaranteed. As far as I'm aware CM Punk was a millionaire from his time in WWE that sort of money you mention I'm assuming can only be made in WWE as it's far and away the biggest brand in the wrestling industry. Some chap in a random mexican mask is probably bouncing off the ropes in a warehouse somewhere workin for jam.

It's nice because I'm a fan of his and have been for a long time. I wouldn't expect non-wrestling fans to feel the same, was only speaking from my own perspective, and I'm not speaking for every wrestling fan by saying that just to be clear, many still don't like him. As for what your opinion on what wrestling is like, it's probably better off not discussed in the MMA forum, but yeah, injuries are actually guaranteed, there isn't a single wrestler in history who hasn't had his share of injuries.

As for the money, WWE wrestlers aren't usually paid more than $1m per year, and the real figures aren't really clear, but Punk's last reported contract was worth $1.7m per year, and if he got a PPV cut for his fight on Saturday as well as the $500k, he probably made somewhere close to if not more than that for one fight and his long training camp, with the added benefit of getting into the best shape of his life.

Your last sentence doesn't apply in the slightest to his situation so there's no point even discussing that.

D.Q

Really dislike Mickey Gall. Can't wait to see him get slapped around by someone

callaway92

Overeem via Submission

D.Q wrote: »

Really dislike Mickey Gall. Can't wait to see him get slapped around by someone

What has he done so far which is so dislikable?

D.Q

callaway92 wrote: »

What has he done so far which is so dislikable?

Just something about that all american, whiter than white persona that has always annoyed me.

His speech calling out Sage was like Diaz without any sort of credibility or attitude.

And he has a pretty smug punchable face.

Mellor

D.Q wrote: »

Just something about that all american, whiter than white persona that has always annoyed me.

His speech calling out Sage was like Diaz without any sort of credibility or attitude.

And he has a pretty smug punchable face.

I don't really get that from him at all tbh. He american sure, but he's from Jersey, not back-ass middle america. After beating Punk, I think he was he was booed, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "what do you think was gonna happen".

I'd consider the white than white to better describe Sage. "Golly gosh Mr Rogan, it sure is swell to be here".

Gall was smart calling out Sage imo. Sage is the well known, gets plenty of coverage, and more importantly isn't particularly good. In particular his grappling appears to be a weakness. I've no real idea how good Gall.s striking is, but if he can get Sage down he'll choke him out.

D.Q

Mellor wrote: »

I don't really get that from him at all tbh. He american sure, but he's from Jersey, not back-ass middle america. After beating Punk, I think he was he was booed, he shrugged his shoulders and said, "what do you think was gonna happen".

I'd consider the white than white to better describe Sage. "Golly gosh Mr Rogan, it sure is swell to be here".

Gall was smart calling out Sage imo. Sage is the well known, gets plenty of coverage, and more importantly isn't particularly good. In particular his grappling appears to be a weakness. I've no real idea how good Gall.s striking is, but if he can get Sage down he'll choke him out.

He was definitely smart in doing it, he's making the most of this unbelievable opportunity. Just something about what I've seen from him annoys me.

I dislike Sage just as much tbh!

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

martyos121 wrote: »

but yeah, injuries are actually guaranteed, there isn't a single wrestler in history who hasn't had his share of injuries.

That's mad I thought the fact they are called professional wrestlers was because they were able to simulate fighting in a safe manner which they are highly trained for, but perhaps they're just referred to as such because they are getting paid.

kumate_champ07

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

That's mad I thought the fact they are called professional wrestlers was because they were able to simulate fighting in a safe manner which they are highly trained for, but perhaps they're just referred to as such because they are getting paid.

is that sarcasm?

stunt men are highly trained but get injured alot too

Depp

Overeem via Submission

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

That's mad I thought the fact they are called professional wrestlers was because they were able to simulate fighting in a safe manner which they are highly trained for, but perhaps they're just referred to as such because they are getting paid.

if you actually think that you have no clue about professional wrestling, while it is a pre-determined entertainment product, by no means is it 'fake'

whether you know you're getting thrown from the top rope or you dont know you're getting thrown from the top rope, you're still getting thrown from the top rope!

martyos121

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

That's mad I thought the fact they are called professional wrestlers was because they were able to simulate fighting in a safe manner which they are highly trained for, but perhaps they're just referred to as such because they are getting paid.

Very naïve of you to think that tbh. Few jobs in the world take a bigger toll on your body than pro-wrestling, ask any one of them including Punk if you ever get the chance.

Bunny Colvin

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

That's mad I thought the fact they are called professional wrestlers was because they were able to simulate fighting in a safe manner which they are highly trained for, but perhaps they're just referred to as such because they are getting paid.

It's the cumulative damage. Their schedule is crazy. Perform a move 100 times, you might get slightly hurt once, do it 300 times (some wrestlers would wrestle that amount of times in a year) and you'll get hurt once or twice.

johnpatrick81

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AKHTwGEZ8

Love Brendan, absolutely nails the punk gall circus to the wall

Depp

Overeem via Submission

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-AKHTwGEZ8

Love Brendan, absolutely nails the punk gall circus to the wall

C.M. Punk - Bryan Callen, main event UFC 205 @seanshelby make it happen

:D:D

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

is that sarcasm?

stunt men are highly trained but get injured alot too

It's not besides these wrestlers are a form of stuntmen, the stuntmen you're referring to get injured true but injuries aren't guaranteed.

Depp wrote: »

if you actually think that you have no clue about professional wrestling, while it is a pre-determined entertainment product, by no means is it 'fake'

whether you know you're getting thrown from the top rope or you dont know you're getting thrown from the top rope, you're still getting thrown from the top rope!

I'm very aware of wrestling watched it when I was younger.

Thrown from the top rope onto canvas you'd have more chance getting a carpet burn off it, Wrestling isn't fake?? and I was questioned by the poster above of being sarcastic christ on a bike

Depp

Overeem via Submission

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

It's not besides these wrestlers are a form of stuntmen, the stuntmen you're referring to get injured true but injuries aren't guaranteed.



I'm very aware of wrestling watched it when I was younger.

Thrown from the top rope onto canvas you'd have more chance getting a carpet burn off it, Wrestling isn't fake?? and I was questioned by the poster above of being sarcastic christ on a bike

you wouldn't be saying that if you'd ever actually felt how hard the 'canvas' is! also remember the top rope is 5 foot high, wrestling is definitely scripted, no denying it, but theres a difference between being scripted and it being fake

StringerBell

In the aftermath of this has Faber announced his retirement yet? He is done, almost sad watching him.

Depp

Overeem via Submission

StringerBell wrote: »

In the aftermath of this has Faber announced his retirement yet? He is done, almost sad watching him.

Id doubt it tbh, Urijah definitely has a few more in him!

StringerBell

Depp wrote: »

Id doubt it tbh, Urijah definitely has a few more in him!

He looked done the other night, what was it that makes you think he has anything (meaningful!) left?

Even in the third where you have got to push the pace if you are him, he was unable to do anything other then show his frustration by eye gouging when he couldn't make anything happen.

As was said in commentary, you wouldn't have seen Cruz fight like that, you would have always said Faber was capable of using great movement and angles, there was none of that. No intelligence either, he just stood in front of Rivera, trying to beat him at his own game which was the worst thing he could do.

StringerBell

Another word from 203 actually, Werdums flying kick to the face in the first second was absolutely beautiful!

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

Depp wrote: »

you wouldn't be saying that if you'd ever actually felt how hard the 'canvas' is! also remember the top rope is 5 foot high, wrestling is definitely scripted, no denying it, but theres a difference between being scripted and it being fake

I don't know why wrestling fans see it as an insult to call it fake, the pain can be real if it mistakes occur sure, but scripted/fake it's all the one, scripted sounds better I guess.

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

StringerBell wrote: »

Another word from 203 actually, Werdums flying kick to the face in the first second was absolutely beautiful!

That was sweeeetttt!! shame the fight went downhill after that point

TherapyBoy

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

I don't know why wrestling fans see it as an insult to call it fake, the pain can be real if it mistakes occur sure, but scripted/fake it's all the one, scripted sounds better I guess.

It's probably because calling it fake dismisses the blood, sweat, time & energy the wrestlers put into producing the scripted show.

They make massive sacrifices to their personal lives in terms of time spent training or on the road away from their families, and massive sacrifices to their personal health too, not to mention the damage caused by misuse of drugs, prescribed or otherwise, so they can keep going through injuries. Add to this the pressure of another wrestler relying on you to perform correctly in order to keep them safe & free of injuries. There's a reason why these guys rarely have happy home lives & rarely live to old age without serious consequences.

No one has a problem with it being called scripted, because it is scripted. I don't know how it can be defined as fake when the consequences for the performers are so real.

Wrongway1985

Overeem via Submission

Insightful post Therapyboy, seems reasonable when you look at it that way.

Lot of question marks ya know if they are sussing out concussion concerns in certain sports, just because this type of wrestling isn't a sport is this why it has escaped the discussion especially as I'm told injuries aren't just a possibility they are guaranteed and wrestlers are carrying on with the tour with the injuries sustained that's pure stupidity. There is no commission sanctioning these lads/ladies.

I mentioned earlier to in relation to CM Punk that he was a millionaire before got attached with the UFC and obviously due to his big status in the WWE realm got this opportunity.

The dollar Punk got I've no problem with he brought in a load of extra $$$ although he did get promoted the sh!t out of it, he was a conman and as a professional wrestler stuntman this was surely the biggest stunt of his career . It's not his fault even; apparently the UFC came to him and the Ohio athletic commission sanctioned it, I certainly wouldn't say it's nice to see him get paid

Then on WWE pay I remember reading an article about a wrestler complaining that people who were winning were getting paid more than those who lost and payscales would be adjusted accordingly his point was as you made the point that the loser performing the simulation was just as important as the victor to make it work which clearly would be the case, is this actually true?

Lastly a slight on the drugs WWE are supposed to have a wellness programme of some sort but if USADA is able to flag (case still pending) Brock for failing in and out of competition drug tests what's he doing wrestling for them a few weeks later. Wellness programme is on a case by case basis me thinks

Tazzimus

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Insightful post Therapyboy, seems reasonable when you look at it that way.

Lot of question marks ya know if they are sussing out concussion concerns in certain sports, just because this type of wrestling isn't a sport is this why it has escaped the discussion especially as I'm told injuries aren't just a possibility they are guaranteed and wrestlers are carrying on with the tour with the injuries sustained that's pure stupidity. There is no commission sanctioning these lads/ladies.

I mentioned earlier to in relation to CM Punk that he was a millionaire before got attached with the UFC and obviously due to his big status in the WWE realm got this opportunity.

The dollar Punk got I've no problem with he brought in a load of extra $$$ although he did get promoted the sh!t out of it, he was a conman and as a professional wrestler stuntman this was surely the biggest stunt of his career . It's not his fault even; apparently the UFC came to him and the Ohio athletic commission sanctioned it, I certainly wouldn't say it's nice to see him get paid

Then on WWE pay I remember reading an article about a wrestler complaining that people who were winning were getting paid more than those who lost and payscales would be adjusted accordingly his point was as you made the point that the loser performing the simulation was just as important as the victor to make it work which clearly would be the case, is this actually true?

Lastly a slight on the drugs WWE are supposed to have a wellness programme of some sort but if USADA is able to flag (case still pending) Brock for failing in and out of competition drug tests what's he doing wrestling for them a few weeks later. Wellness programme is on a case by case basis me thinks

Pro wrestling would be seen as entertainment more so than sport, I'd imagine that's the reason it's not really looked at for sports related concussion injuries.

They're all "employed" as contractors I think, so no benefits etc

The wellness program isn't very stringent at all, it actually just looks like lip service - Oh yeah we're ensuring these guys don't get hooked on drugs/alcohol....

Hail 2 Da Chimp

wonderfullife wrote: »

Here was a golden chance for Gall. Keep the fight on the feet and KO the pro wrestler.

I was a bit surprised at this. I didn't see the full fight - just the highlights, so maybe someone else can fill me in?

Did Gall get a bonus for a submission finish? Maybe he was just thinking of the money?
Even when Gall had his back, I thought he should have finished him with strikes.

That was very charitable of him to put Punk out of his misery early enough, especially after the weigh in fiasco.

Swashbuckler

His job is to win the fight by the path of least resistance and he did that. Simple. I wouldn't read anything more into it. And I think someone suggesting he should have stood with him is a bit mad to be honest. It's a fight. Win it however you can. Bottom line.

Tazzimus

Swashbuckler wrote: »

His job is to win the fight by the path of least resistance and he did that. Simple. I wouldn't read anything more into it. And I think someone suggesting he should have stood with him is a bit mad to be honest. It's a fight. Win it however you can. Bottom line.

He won by playing to his best advantage over Punk.
Fairly standard practice for pretty much any fighter. Go in, fight to your advantages, win. Profit. etc

Mellor

BJJ Brown Belt in shock submission win...:eek: