Being sent to Corporate doctor

Tdoyle

I have worked in a very stressful environment for a few years. My GP has now said it is time to go on work related stress leave as I am very unwell. I have been signed out on certs initially for one month. The cert states absence is due to work related stress. I am 7 days into this leave and now my employer is saying I have to make an appointment and see their corporate doctor. I have replied to their email and said I would find this extremely stressful at the moment but if they insist I have to do this I will. I have asked them can their corporate doctor not talk to my GP. I am genuinely very unwell and I find this very hard to deal with. Has anyone else been down this road or have any advice for me. Thank you

davo10

Firstly, yes they can require to visit a GP nominated by them, this should be laid out in your contract of employment. A week after the leave has begun is a short period, but a cert for one month is a very long period, some employers will require updated certs on a weekly/fortnightly basis. This again will be laid out in your contract.

Given the long period your GP (mistakenly) signed you off, your employer will now most likely be assessing if you are likely to be able to return to work and some estimate of timescale. You should note, long term absence due to illness, even if you blame work for it, can in certain circumstances result in dismissal.

Your GP would have been better giving you a cert for 1-2 weeks which you could then resubmit after that time, this would have kept your employer off your back.

livedadream

Tdoyle wrote: »

I have worked in a very stressful environment for a few years. My GP has now said it is time to go on work related stress leave as I am very unwell. I have been signed out on certs initially for one month. The cert states absence is due to work related stress. I am 7 days into this leave and now my employer is saying I have to make an appointment and see their corporate doctor. I have replied to their email and said I would find this extremely stressful at the moment but if they insist I have to do this I will. I have asked them can their corporate doctor not talk to my GP. I am genuinely very unwell and I find this very hard to deal with. Has anyone else been down this road or have any advice for me. Thank you

firstly its totally normal to be sent to a company doctor especially for something like stress.

its not necessarily that they dont believe you or want to catch you out, they just want their own check on things so they have a record saying they did the best they could to help you. they do not get a report saying you are stressed because of this or that, they get a fit for work cert or unfit for work cert.

the Doctor might recommend you take longer off, that you need to work flexitime, or a shortened week, your GP can recommend these things but in general company doctors are given knowledge of the role you do so can advise the company better.

The doctor you are sent to may ask your permission to speak to your GP but again they cant give information like medication or treatment to your Hr team unless it would impact your health and safety at work.

I would encourage you to go to the company doctor. Explain to them that you are stressed at the thought of it but an appointment at the time that suits you might be beneficial, you should also keep in mind that your company might offer assistance with dealing with any issues.

I agree with Davo that its strange for a cert for a month for a first occurrence for something like stress. but im not a doctor so dont know, i can only say from a HR perspective that if i got a months cert for work related stress id be sending you off to the company doc or occupational health aswell.

(i have crohns and while i rarely miss work when i was first diagnosed i had to get certs bi weekly, but i didnt get a month straight off)

Tdoyle

Thank you both for your replies. I have taken on board what you both say. When you are unwell it can sometimes be difficult to see things clearly.

marklazarcovic

If your doc thinks you have had a nervous breakdown a month off straight away is not unusual,. Company doctor's can be very aggressive in my experience,and a severe lack of empathy unlike your own doctor. Tread carefully.. you don't know them but they will want answers to personal questions,might find it uncomfortable.

At the end of the day if your sick your sick,its not something you want yourself so don't blame yourself,dont be made feel guilty,concentrate on yourself first and foremost.


Also, best of luck.

Jen44

yes this is a very normal process. They are usually an external occupational doctor who just have to give an unbiased opinion to your employers. My mother had to attend one when she was out on leave with depression. The doctor was very nice and explained her role was simply to clarify that she was indeed out on sick leave and to give an idea of when or how long she expected my mother to be off for.

bobbysands81

Tdoyle wrote: »

I have worked in a very stressful environment for a few years. My GP has now said it is time to go on work related stress leave as I am very unwell. I have been signed out on certs initially for one month. The cert states absence is due to work related stress. I am 7 days into this leave and now my employer is saying I have to make an appointment and see their corporate doctor. I have replied to their email and said I would find this extremely stressful at the moment but if they insist I have to do this I will. I have asked them can their corporate doctor not talk to my GP. I am genuinely very unwell and I find this very hard to deal with. Has anyone else been down this road or have any advice for me. Thank you

It is actually good for you that your work is insisting you attend this Doctor.

Your employer is actually fulfilling their health and well-being responsibility by doing so. IMO they are acting in your interests by ensuring you get medical assistance after you've informed them of work related stress.

Have a good chat to the Doctor as to how you're feeling and hopefully some recommendations to help you will come from this.

Remember, it's only a job, your health is much more important.

davo10

marklazarcovic wrote: »

If your doc thinks you have had a nervous breakdown a month off straight away is not unusual,. Company doctor's can be very aggressive in my experience,and a severe lack of empathy unlike your own doctor. Tread carefully.. you don't know them but they will want answers to personal questions,might find it uncomfortable.

At the end of the day if your sick your sick,its not something you want yourself so don't blame yourself,dont be made feel guilty,concentrate on yourself first and foremost.


Also, best of luck.

I have never known a GP to be "aggressive" toward an employee sent for an independent assessment. The Doctor must still abide by the code of ethics, their remit is not to trick the employee nor to disprove the extent of the illness. The independent GP will not have access to the employees medical notes nor test results. The appointment is just to confirm that the employee has a bone fide reason for being out on sick leave and as another poster has said, to get some idea of recovery time. The op need not fear anything about this visit, it typically takes the form of a conversation about the current state of health and whether there is signs of improvement.

Tdoyle

Thank you. You are so right.

marklazarcovic

davo10 wrote: »

I have never known a GP to be "aggressive" toward an employee sent for an independent assessment. The Doctor must still abide by the code of ethics, their remit is not to trick the employee nor to disprove the extent of the illness. The independent GP will not have access to the employees medical notes nor test results. The appointment is just to confirm that the employee has a bone fide reason for being out on sick leave and as another poster has said, to get some idea of recovery time. The op need not fear anything about this visit, it typically takes the form of a conversation about the current state of health and whether there is signs of improvement.

Just because you haven't heard of it does not make it true,also it was not a gp..it was the cmo of the company,a large company, I also know about how things should be handled,and I've stated this was not the case. People have different experiences you know..

It was dangerous practice to push someone who was off on sick leave for stress related issues,it was stupid. And was ,in hindsight ,a push to see was the illness fabricated in a effort to force a return to work. Appalling by the doctor,and yes a official complaint was made.

Large companies who employ doctors for their own staff only are only doing what's legally required ,nothing more, in my experience.. the bottom line is not the staff members well being..

Believe it or not.



Edit.just to add, not all companies or doctors will be like my experience,probably the opposite. I'm not trying to scare the op at all,i went in thinking my well being was the priority,happy to be there to see the doctor. I didn't leave that way.

livedadream

theres a huge difference between CMO, company occupational health and external company doctors or consultants.

i understand your experience was terrible and im not talking away from that. but there's no need to put the fear of god into someone like the OP who is already suffering from stress.

the bottom line is protecting themselves from harming a staff member and therefore making themselves liable for a claim.

the company doctor cants turn around and say OP doesnt have work related stress because her GP has signed her off, they are there to confirm and see what can be done to assist or resolve it.

scaremongering doesnt help anyone.

seamus

It's important to remember no matter what doctor you attend, whether that be your own GP or your company's nominated doctor, you are at all times protected by doctor-patient confidentiality.

The company's doctor cannot give any information to the company without your express permission, so don't be afraid to be frank and honest with this doctor.

As others say, their role is to confirm the diagnosis by your own GP, not to try and trip you up and definitely not to reveal any of your personal or medical information to your employer.

LegacyUser

It's understandable that you feel anxious about this, given that you are suffering from stress.
I was asked to attend some years ago, similar situation. It's normal practice where I work, obviously I didn't really know much about it until I actually had to do it.

It was absolutely fine. The external doctor confirmed my own doctor's diagnosis. I was asked what had led up to me becoming ill. I also said straight out at the start that I felt nervous / shaky. I was completely honest about what had happened and how it affected me.

The company I work for uses an external corporate health company, and so the doctors are well used to handling cases. I went in open minded, albeit nervous, but very much thinking along the lines that their, and my company's ultimate aim was to help me, and get the best outcome for me and them. It took time but I am now long back at work, in full health.

Sorry, I'm going on a bit. What I'm saying is, it's natural to feel stressed about it, but say that to the doctor who will absolutely expect that you are nervous or stressed. Write down a few things beforehand, if that would help.
Try to think of attending as being something that will help you in the long term. It's not in any way to 'catch you out'.

Wanderer2010

The company doctor meeting is not really any different from meeting up with your manager or HR and yes, some of them can be very nasty and try and get you to say things you don't feel comfortable with. Are you not entitled to a witness to have with you the same way a union rep can be with you for a disciplinary?

seamus

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The company doctor meeting is not really any different from meeting up with your manager or HR and yes, some of them can be very nasty and try and get you to say things you don't feel comfortable with. Are you not entitled to a witness to have with you the same way a union rep can be with you for a disciplinary?

It's completely different. The company doctor cannot report back to the company anything which you do not give them permission to report, and their only authority is to carry out a medical exam.

Any aggressive or confrontational behaviour on their behalf can be reported directly to the Irish Medical Council.

A witness is unnecessary, but if you wish to have someone attend with you, nobody can stop you.

livedadream

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The company doctor meeting is not really any different from meeting up with your manager or HR and yes, some of them can be very nasty and try and get you to say things you don't feel comfortable with. Are you not entitled to a witness to have with you the same way a union rep can be with you for a disciplinary?

its 100% different.
one is a medical professional the other is a layperson.

what a ridiculous comment.

ones job is to manage you as an employee the others is to assist you with a medical issue.

Stheno

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

The company doctor meeting is not really any different from meeting up with your manager or HR and yes, some of them can be very nasty and try and get you to say things you don't feel comfortable with. Are you not entitled to a witness to have with you the same way a union rep can be with you for a disciplinary?

That's incorrect, it's completely different. Many years ago I ended up at a company doctor due to stress related sick leave, and the company doctor's report actually resulted in the company taking action to deal with the source of my stress (another employee)

Had I not gone, I'd not have had that action taken.

livedadream

Stheno wrote: »

That's incorrect, it's completely different. Many years ago I ended up at a company doctor due to stress related sick leave, and the company doctor's report actually resulted in the company taking action to deal with the source of my stress (another employee)

Had I not gone, I'd not have had that action taken.

the voice of reason....

Odelay

seamus wrote: »

It's important to remember no matter what doctor you attend, whether that be your own GP or your company's nominated doctor, you are at all times protected by doctor-patient confidentiality.

The company's doctor cannot give any information to the company without your express permission, so don't be afraid to be frank and honest with this doctor.

As others say, their role is to confirm the diagnosis by your own GP, not to try and trip you up and definitely not to reveal any of your personal or medical information to your employer.

The company doctor will give information back to the company, all of it. Their services are paid for by the company. This is totally different to a person engaging their own doctor.
Imagine if you sent an employee to a company doctor with a sore back, "well doc, what so you think? How is his movement? Do you think it could have been caused by lifting a chair as he reports?" Docs reply " can't tell you anything, he did not give me permission". "Well is he actually injured?". Doc "can't tell you that either"
It does not work like that, the doctors do report back.

davo10

Odelay wrote: »

The company doctor will give information back to the company, all of it. Their services are paid for by the company. This is totally different to a person engaging their own doctor.
Imagine if you sent an employee to a company doctor with a sore back, "well doc, what so you think? How is his movement? Do you think it could have been caused by lifting a chair as he reports?" Docs reply " can't tell you anything, he did not give me permission". "Well is he actually injured?". Doc "can't tell you that either"
It does not work like that, the doctors do report back.

This is completely incorrect, the GP can only discuss information related to the confirmation of the reason for absence and likelihood of return. Patient confidentiality is sacrosanct and is not dependent on who made the appointment nor who is paying the bill. The Doctor cannot discuss any details of the conversation beyond that without the employees express permission.

Wanderer2010

livedadream wrote: »

its 100% different.
one is a medical professional the other is a layperson.

what a ridiculous comment.

ones job is to manage you as an employee the others is to assist you with a medical issue.

Don't be so narrow minded. A company doctor is on the company payroll and hence had only the companies interests at heart- yes, to stop themselves falling into a claim made by an employee but also to ensure the employee is back to work asap. And there are lots of doctors out there who use subtle ways to try and get you to admit your stress is not work related and because its just the 2 of ye in the room, its your word against theirs if you feel badly treated and make a complaint.

I had a bad experience once with a doctor who was making personal comments about my lifestyle (I had broken my arm) and that I really should be doing more physio and its lazy otherwise. I was shocked after the meeting and felt very angry but I had no witness so I had no leg to stand on. A witness at these meetings is vital in my view.

Stheno

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Don't be so narrow minded. A company doctor is on the company payroll and hence had only the companies interests at heart- yes, to stop themselves falling into a claim made by an employee but also to ensure the employee is back to work asap. And there are lots of doctors out there who use subtle ways to try and get you to admit your stress is not work related and because its just the 2 of ye in the room, its your word against theirs if you feel badly treated and make a complaint.

I had a bad experience once with a doctor who was making personal comments about my lifestyle (I had broken my arm) and that I really should be doing more physio and its lazy otherwise. I was shocked after the meeting and felt very angry but I had no witness so I had no leg to stand on. A witness at these meetings is vital in my view.

You're posting about this is completely incorrect, and scaremongering.

You have absolutely no entitlement to have a witness.

Wanderer2010

Stheno wrote: »

You're posting about this is completely incorrect, and scaremongering.

You have absolutely no entitlement to have a witness.

Can you link to that? Lets just say you had a bad experience initially with a company doctor (didn't like their manner, felt they were patronising etc) and you went to develop bad work-related stress, got signed off by your own GP then you get a letter asking you to return to the same company doctor for a meeting. Theres no way on earth I would be walking into that room without a witness present and a lot of people are in that boat as well.

Stheno

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Can you link to that? Lets just say you had a bad experience initially with a company doctor (didn't like their manner, felt they were patronising etc) and you went to develop bad work-related stress, got signed off by your own GP then you get a letter asking you to return to the same company doctor for a meeting. Theres no way on earth I would be walking into that room without a witness present and a lot of people are in that boat as well.

No because there are no laws or regulations which provide for one to have a witness when visiting a company doctor.

2RockMountain

Stheno wrote: »

No because there are no laws or regulations which provide for one to have a witness when visiting a company doctor.

There are also no laws or regulations which prevent one from having a witness when visiting a company doctor.

Many professionals advise bringing a family member for support or advice or advocacy for any doctor's appointment, for people who may need extra support.

davo10

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Can you link to that? Lets just say you had a bad experience initially with a company doctor (didn't like their manner, felt they were patronising etc) and you went to develop bad work-related stress, got signed off by your own GP then you get a letter asking you to return to the same company doctor for a meeting. Theres no way on earth I would be walking into that room without a witness present and a lot of people are in that boat as well.

If you are unhappy with the behaviour of a GP, you can make a complaint to the Medical Council. But once you are over the age of medical consent, it is really at the discretion of the GP to allow the patient to be accompanied. Most I would suspect would be more than happy for a family member to accompany the employee, but a co worker or union rep has no place being privy to what is essentially the most private of all personal information. You have to remember, the "witness" is not bound by confidentiality rules.

Mrs OBumble

Most doctors (GPs anyway) won't have a witness in the room for any examination / consultation: they want to have a direct interaction with the patient.

If a doctor is acting on behalf of a company, then while they don't pass back direct clinical information without your permission (eg John had squiggly-widget disease and is taking antibiotic ABC for it). But they do report on things like:

1) whether they think your absence from work is typical given your condition
2) if you are engaging with appropriate medical treatment (without saying what the treatment is)
3) how long you are likely to be out sick for
4) whether your capacity for work will be affected by the illness
5) what the company can and should do to minimise the risk of you getting hurt again if you return to work (eg provide anti squiggly-widget training, move you to a non front-line role, etc)

If your company don't like what they hear, they may well start disciplinary procedures against you: remember you have no right to sick leave in this country.


Also, it's quite possible that your GP is slack and hasn't prescribed the treatments which will be most effective in getting you healthy again as quickly as possible. (Eg I had a GP once who didn't believe in physio, so typically didn't refer for it despite the evidence showing that it does get people better faster). In this case, your getting a 2nd opinion from the company doctor is likely to be beneficial, even though it can be difficult because they don't want to directly criticise your own GP.

davo10

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Most doctors (GPs anyway) won't have a witness in the room for any examination / consultation: they want to have a direct interaction with the patient.

If a doctor is acting on behalf of a company, then while they don't pass back direct clinical information without your permission (eg John had squiggly-widget disease and is taking antibiotic ABC for it). But they do report on things like:

1) whether they think your absence from work is typical given your condition
2) if you are engaging with appropriate medical treatment (without saying what the treatment is)
3) how long you are likely to be out sick for
4) whether your capacity for work will be affected by the illness
5) what the company can and should do to minimise the risk of you getting hurt again if you return to work (eg provide anti squiggly-widget training, move you to a non front-line role, etc)

If your company don't like what they hear, they may well start disciplinary procedures against you: remember you have no right to sick leave in this country.


Also, it's quite possible that your GP is slack and hasn't prescribed the treatments which will be most effective in getting you healthy again as quickly as possible. (Eg I had a GP once who didn't believe in physio, so typically didn't refer for it despite the evidence showing that it does get people better faster). In this case, your getting a 2nd opinion from the company doctor is likely to be beneficial, even though it can be difficult because they don't want to directly criticise your own GP.

You are right about everything except the last paragraph. In this situation the employee is not undergoing a thorough examination, will not have medical records nor test results and it would be inappropriate of the GP to recommend alternative treatments. The employee is there only to confirm the reason for the absence, nothing else. The GP would be taking an enormous risk by recommending/prescribing treatments which differed from the employees own Doctor and would be assuming a duty of care.

2RockMountain

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Most doctors (GPs anyway) won't have a witness in the room for any examination / consultation: they want to have a direct interaction with the patient.

Many reputable sources advise bringing someone with you.

http://mentalhelp.ie/starting-the-journey-your-gp/

Bring along someone you trust for support

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=131

You are welcome to ask a family member or a friend to be present during the visit if you feel this would be helpful.

http://www.medmark4teachers.ie/teachersna/qa.asp

Can I bring someone with me?
Yes, you are welcome to take a friend or relative with you should you so wish.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

Many reputable sources advise bringing someone with you.

http://mentalhelp.ie/starting-the-journey-your-gp/


http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=131


http://www.medmark4teachers.ie/teachersna/qa.asp

You can elect to bring someone with you, the GP is not required to admit them. If you do elect to bring someone, they are your confidante and not subject to confidentiality rules, if they breach your confidence, then it's your problem. That is a big risk for you to take.

Stheno

2RockMountain wrote: »

Many reputable sources advise bringing someone with you.

http://mentalhelp.ie/starting-the-journey-your-gp/


http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?con=131


http://www.medmark4teachers.ie/teachersna/qa.asp

Your first two links are about visiting ones personal gp and the third is from a company who do medical assessments

That's not many organisations advocating you bring someone as a witness when visiting a company doctor