Being sent to Corporate doctor

2RockMountain

Stheno wrote: »

Your first two links are about visiting ones personal gp and the third is from a company who do medical assessments

That's not many organisations advocating you bring someone as a witness when visiting a company doctor

Well, there's one 'company doctor' (Medmark, company doctor for Dept Education) advocating that you bring someone as a witness when visiting a company doctor.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

Well, there's one 'company doctor' (Medmark, company doctor for Dept Education) advocating that you bring someone as a witness when visiting a company doctor.

They are not advocating it, they say you are welcome to do so. If you want to be pedantic, the page refers to an "Ocupational Health Practitioner" it does not state that it will be a Doctor, it could be a nurse or someone with a qualification in OH, they may be covered by DP regulations but not Doctor-Patient confidentiality.

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

They are not advocating it, they say you are welcome to do so. If you want to be pedantic, the page refers to an "Ocupational Health Practitioner" it does not state that it will be a Doctor, it could be a nurse or someone with a qualification in OH, they may be covered by DP regulations but not Doctor-Patient confidentiality.

Have you some reason to desperately try and disprove something? Here's a company that provides company doctor services - probably one of the largest company doctor contracts in the country - Dept Education / teachers - saying that you can bring someone with you.

But you still want to make a big deal out of this? Yes, there is a confidentiality issue, and yes, you have to be careful about who you bring.

Why do want to try to stir up doubts about this?

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

Have you some reason to desperately try and disprove something? Here's a company that provides company doctor services - probably one of the largest company doctor contracts in the country - Dept Education / teachers - saying that you can bring someone with you.

But you still want to make a big deal out of this? Yes, there is a confidentiality issue, and yes, you have to be careful about who you bring.

Why do want to try to stir up doubts about this?

Because there are very big doubts about what you are saying. Because one employer welcomes the employee being accompanied, there is no requirement for another employer's Doctor to do so. You are presenting this to the op as being accepted advice, which it is not. The Dept of Education welcome it, but that is not to say they advise it nor that it will be allowed by the Op's Doctor. This may well lead to conflict it the op believes there is an entitlement to be accompanied. The confidentiality "issue" as to call it should be strongly considered by anyone thinking of bringing a friend, that friend can tell whomever they chose about what was discussed at that appointment.

This appointment is not "a big deal", it is usually a brief visit to confirm the illness and gauge the possibility of a return to work. If the op requests to be accompanied, this may well be agreed but the burden of keeping the discussion confidential falls to a greater degree in the employee because there is an extra person in the room.

Stheno

All people have said is that you are not automatically entitled to bring someone with you
Your posts don't prove otherwise tbh

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

Because there are very big doubts about what you are saying. Because one employer welcomes the employee being accompanied, there is no requirement for another employer's Doctor to do so. You are presenting this to the op as being accepted advice, which it is not. The Dept of Education welcome it, but that is not to say they advise it nor that it will be allowed by the Op's Doctor. This may well lead to conflict it the op believes there is an entitlement to be accompanied. The confidentiality "issue" as to call it should be strongly considered by anyone thinking of bringing a friend, that friend can tell whomever they chose about what was discussed at that appointment.

This appointment is not "a big deal", it is usually a brief visit to confirm the illness and gauge the possibility of a return to work. If the op requests to be accompanied, this may well be agreed but the burden of keeping the discussion confidential falls to a greater degree in the employee because there is an extra person in the room.

Stheno wrote: »

All people have said is that you are not automatically entitled to bring someone with you
Your posts don't prove otherwise tbh

Are there any reputable sources indicating that doctors can/will refuse to allow a friend or relative to accompany the person?

Stheno

2RockMountain wrote: »

Are there any reputable sources indicating that doctors can/will refuse to allow a friend or relative to accompany the person?

No. But equally companies are entitled to insist on no witness at a medical as there is nothing compelling them to do so

2RockMountain

Stheno wrote: »

No. But equally companies are entitled to insist on no witness at a medical as there is nothing compelling them to do so

Is there any reputable source indicating that employers can/will insist on this?

Given that the Medical Council seem to think it is a good idea to inform patients that they can have a chaperone present for an examination, and in fact have a specific complaint/inquiry category for failure to offer opportunity to have a chaperone present.

https://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Public-Information/Inquiry-Notifications/Case%20Studies/Failure-to-explain-examination-and-failure-to-offer-opportunity-to-have-a-chaperone-present.html

The doctor should inform the patient that they can have a chaperone present if they wish. -

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

Is there any reputable source indicating that employers can/will insist on this?

Given that the Medical Council seem to think it is a good idea to inform patients that they can have a chaperone present for an examination, and in fact have a specific complaint/inquiry category for failure to offer opportunity to have a chaperone present.

https://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Public-Information/Inquiry-Notifications/Case%20Studies/Failure-to-explain-examination-and-failure-to-offer-opportunity-to-have-a-chaperone-present.html

I think you should read that link more carefully, it relates to "physical and intimate examinations", this is not the type of examination carried out by Doctors nominated by employers.

2RockMountain

davo10 wrote: »

I think you should read that link more carefully, it relates to "physical and intimate examinations", this is not the type of examination carried out by Doctors nominated by employers.

How can the company doctor report back to the employer on a back injury or leg injury or neck injury without doing a physical examination?

Stheno

2RockMountain wrote: »

How can the company doctor report back to the employer on a back injury or leg injury or neck injury without doing a physical examination?

They will usually do a brief physical exam, and ask for records from the primary caregiver.

2RockMountain

Stheno wrote: »

They will usually do a brief physical exam, and ask for records from the primary caregiver.

So they should be offering a chaperone, according to the Medical Council guidelines then.

davo10

2RockMountain wrote: »

How can the company doctor report back to the employer on a back injury or leg injury or neck injury without doing a physical examination?

Ok, the answer to that question is by talking to the employee, and by considering the treatment recommended by his/her GP.

The link you provided refers to guidelines on physical examination of intimate parts of the body. The chaperone is to protect both patient and physician from commital and accusations of inoppropriate contact, either acctual or perceived.

Stheno

2RockMountain wrote: »

So they should be offering a chaperone, according to the Medical Council guidelines then.

No it's voluntary, not mandatory when you are visiting your gp AGAIN. Companies requesting you to attend a company doctor are not requiring you to be a patient of that doctor but rather to have an independant assessment which you appear to be missing in terms of the difference. Companies requesting the exam have the right to prohibit witnesses. The link you are posting talks about invasive personal exams, not ones related to stress for which there would be no physical exam.

For the likes of cancer etc, it would be irrelevant as to the exam.

You appear to be over reaching tbh.

And from a mod point of view this discussion is not helpful and should be avoided.

Amanda.ie

Are you entitled to get a copy of the letter the CMO is sending to your employer ? Do you have to get it from your HR?
How soon would you be sent to the CMO?

Stheno

Amanda.ie wrote: »

Are you entitled to get a copy of the letter the CMO is sending to your employer ? Do you have to get it from your HR?
How soon would you be sent to the CMO?

CMO is public sector not private.

That doesn't sound like the position the OP is in.

davo10

Amanda.ie wrote: »

Are you entitled to get a copy of the letter the CMO is sending to your employer ? Do you have to get it from your HR?
How soon would you be sent to the CMO?

Yes you are entitled to a copy of the report, just ask for it while you are there, both copies are sent at the same time, you do not have to go through HR, it is sent directly to your nominated address.

2RockMountain

Stheno wrote: »

No it's voluntary, not mandatory when you are visiting your gp AGAIN. Companies requesting you to attend a company doctor are not requiring you to be a patient of that doctor but rather to have an independant assessment which you appear to be missing in terms of the difference. Companies requesting the exam have the right to prohibit witnesses. The link you are posting talks about invasive personal exams, not ones related to stress for which there would be no physical exam.

For the likes of cancer etc, it would be irrelevant as to the exam.

You appear to be over reaching tbh.

Respectfully, those who are pushing a particular point of view without showing a single reputable source to back up that view are over-reaching. Can anyone show any particular source that shows that employers (1) can, and (2) do restrict employees from bringing family support or similar to a doctor's appointment?

livedadream

2RockMountain wrote: »

Respectfully, those who are pushing a particular point of view without showing a single reputable source to back up that view are over-reaching. Can anyone show any particular source that shows that employers (1) can, and (2) do restrict employees from bringing family support or similar to a doctor's appointment?

opposed to someone who appears to be pushing a ''their out to get you'' agenda towards someone who has asked for help and admitted they have a problem with stress.

from my companies perspective there is no rule saying you cant take a family member or friend to the company Doc (theres no rule to say you can either though), its not encouraged because not everybody wants to bring in their mammy/sister/wife to a GP appointment.

i dont know what the doctor would say but im assuming it would be along the lines of your a ****ing grown up, if you need it sure but if im doing an exam then they have to leave.

Kings Inns or bust

OP, the company doctor is there to counter bias with their own bias, in effect.

When you went to your GP he was only interested in you and would be biased in that direction. The company Doctor will have a simialr bias in relation to the company. However both are professionals and bound by the relevant ethical codes required by their profession. I have had some interaction with my company doctor and he was rather good in the actual interview but pretty useless in follow up. Fair enough that's not really his area.

I wouldn't be overly concerned. As for bringing someone with you, I can't see how any reasonable company or Doctor would have an issue with it. As for thing things that may seem illogical, immature or generally just needing to pull yourself togeather forget it. Anyone who forwards that point of view simply doesn't understand mental illness.

I wish you the very best OP, I've recently enough come out of a period of issues myself. I was very lucky to have a great support network around me and a long suffering wife and an employer that was extremely supportive. They did, however, as me to see the company doc so returning to that single issue, try not to let it worry you too much. That said I know from personal experiance that a little bit of paranoia can creep in.

Mrs OBumble

2RockMountain wrote: »

So they should be offering a chaperone, according to the Medical Council guidelines then.

This chaperone is mainly to protect the doctor from unfounded accusations of inappropriate conduct.

Typically it would by someone with enough health-professional training to be able to judge if the doctor's conduct was inappropriate given the context. Usually a practise nurse, student doctor etc, not your friend, colleague or mammy (unless you're a minor, in which case mammy would be an option - although the doctor may want 2nd medical person present too).



In the OP's case, being accompanied to the place and in the waiting room by a friend, colleague or even a union delegate would be fine. But for the consultation itself I'd expect the companion to be politely told to stay in the waiting room.

Not only does having a 2nd person present raise confidentiality issues, it also can affect the flow of information from patient to doctor: the patient says what they think the companion wants to here, not the truth.

2RockMountain

livedadream wrote: »

i dont know what the doctor would say but im assuming it would be along the lines of your a ****ing grown up, if you need it sure but if im doing an exam then they have to leave.

Have you ever actually dealt with anyone who has significant mental health issues, and is dealing with stress or anxiety?

Do you reckon that "your (sic) a ****ing grown up" is a good starting point for an effective examination of such issues?

livedadream

2RockMountain wrote: »

Have you ever actually dealt with anyone who has significant mental health issues, and is dealing with stress or anxiety?

yes and and ive spoken previously regarding assisting staff members with numerous illnesses.

2RockMountain wrote: »

Do you reckon that "your (sic) a ****ing grown up" is a good starting point for an effective examination of such issues?

if you are refereed to a company doctor there is no obligation for them to allow someone else in the consultation.

the same as if an abused child or adult is accompanied in to an appointment they may not feel they can speak freely, if you are sitting in a room with a union rep and are being asked to speak about your mental illness you may not be as open as needed.

at the end of the day its up to the doctor.

2RockMountain

livedadream wrote: »

yes and and ive spoken previously regarding assisting staff members with numerous illnesses.

Excellent - how did the "your (sic) a ****ing grown up" starting point work out in any of those discussions?

livedadream wrote: »

if you are refereed to a company doctor there is no obligation for them to allow someone else in the consultation.

the same as if an abused child or adult is accompanied in to an appointment they may not feel they can speak freely, if you are sitting in a room with a union rep and are being asked to speak about your mental illness you may not be as open as needed.

at the end of the day its up to the doctor.

Again, it would be helpful if you could show some source or basis for this opinion. Is there any guideline or rule or advice from a reputable medical or HR body that would stop a person bringing a family member or similar to a doctor's appointment?

Stheno

Mod;

This has gone completely off topic to the op.

Can you please refrain from posting unless it's to offer advice to the op?

Tdoyle

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

OP, the company doctor is there to counter bias with their own bias, in effect.

When you went to your GP he was only interested in you and would be biased in that direction. The company Doctor will have a simialr bias in relation to the company. However both are professionals and bound by the relevant ethical codes required by their profession. I have had some interaction with my company doctor and he was rather good in the actual interview but pretty useless in follow up. Fair enough that's not really his area.

I wouldn't be overly concerned. As for bringing someone with you, I can't see how any reasonable company or Doctor would have an issue with it. As for thing things that may seem illogical, immature or generally just needing to pull yourself togeather forget it. Anyone who forwards that point of view simply doesn't understand mental illness.

I wish you the very best OP, I've recently enough come out of a period of issues myself. I was very lucky to have a great support network around me and a long suffering wife and an employer that was extremely supportive. They did, however, as me to see the company doc so returning to that single issue, try not to let it worry you too much. That said I know from personal experiance that a little bit of paranoia can creep in.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.