Are Ireland's roads safe for cyclists?

Jawgap

bazermc wrote: »

The top three threads in 410 as I write this are; this one, cyclist killed in Dublin and Dublin Bus Strike take care.

Says it all really.

It does.....

Jawgap wrote: »

......so asks an article on the Journal in the wake of recent collisions that resulted in the deaths of cyclists.


My own view is that yes, Ireland's and Dublin's roads are more than safe enough for cyclists and that too much significance shouldn't be attached to single, tragic, high profile events that garner significant media attention.

.......

Unknown Soldier

Jawgap wrote: »

......so asks an article on the Journal in the wake of recent collisions that resulted in the deaths of cyclists.



My own view is that yes, Ireland's and Dublin's roads are more than safe enough for cyclists and that too much significance shouldn't be attached to single, tragic, high profile events that garner significant media attention.

Saying that, there's always room for improvement. Personally, I'd like to see....

<Sniped>
• "Left on red" being allowed at as many junctions as is safe to do so
  
• Campaigns to encourage / remind cyclists to avoid the inside of HGVs and how to do so - and campaigns to encourage HGV drivers not to pull alongside cyclists who have already stopped at a junction before them......it's one thing to put cyclists in cabs so they get an impression of what drivers can/cannot see, but why not put HGV drives on bikes and let them experience what cyclists experience?

No on the "Left on Red" thing.

You assume people are smart.

Better to assume they are dumb and not allow it.

They'd approach a junction with a red light and a HGV and think it's grand to go up the left.

Grand 'till said light goes green and they are half way up the truck.

What we really need to do is get over our society's restrictions being "irish" and all that it entails, and have HD cameras everywhere for traffic.

Penalise "vehicle owners" using bus lanes via number plates.

Penalise cyclists breaking red lights or what ever.

Penalise ALL people who use the thoroughfares that we all share, illegally.

The technology is available. Your phone might as well be 666 on your head

Also, release accident reports that allow people to be educated. Stop respecting families grief.

It's sad that poor Sarah was killed in a collision, but maybe let it be known that's what happens when you try and over take a 40 foot truck on a blind corner?

bazermc

bazermc wrote: »

The top three threads in 410 as I write this are; this one, cyclist killed in Dublin and Dublin Bus Strike take care.

Says it all really.

I think the reason for this is these threads end up on "latest posts" on the boards front page. Since these are hot topics for everyone the forum gets a few "drive by" postings by people who don't usually post here.

Chuchote

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

It's sad that poor Sarah was killed in a collision, but maybe let it be known that's what happens when you try and over take a 40 foot truck on a blind corner?

Do you know that this is what happened, or are you conjecturing?

Unknown Soldier

Chuchote wrote: »

Do you know that this is what happened, or are you conjecturing?

Yes.

Nothing to do with recent events.

I could tell you how three brothers were decapitated for the same sort of manoeuvre?

pavb2

I'm working in the UK at the moment and was caught by a speed camera doing 55 mph in a 50. So the options were 3 points on the licence or a driving awareness course.

I took the course and was quite cynical going in thinking just get the next 4 or 5 hours out of the way. But I must admit the course was very good in that it did make me more conscious of speed limits other road users etc. I realised that I had actually become complacent as a driver and the course gave me a much needed kick up the proverbial.

I'm not sure if this is offered in Ireland but certainly for the likes of me who passed their test 30 odd years ago I would strongly recommend it.

Chuchote

40-foot trucks don't belong in cities.

Wishbone Ash

Chuchote wrote: »

40-foot trucks don't belong in cities.

I going to be pedantic but since this comes up so often.... :

Standard trailers are 45 feet long and have been so for about 20 years now.

Pedantic finished!

magicbastarder

Chuchote wrote: »

40-foot trucks don't belong in cities.

i've seen artic lorries reversing into the back of M&S on grafton street; but there's a (possibly facile) argument to be made that as long as city dwellers demand fresh produce in volume, we either have to accept volume deliveries during antisocial hours, or redefine the benefits of living in a city.

micar

Rezident wrote: »

Not safe in Dublin anyway. Yet another car cut me off today, less than half an hour ago when I was cycling at speed in the cycle lane. Just cuts me off to turn left, could have been absolutely fatal, except I expect it now and instinctively slow down when a car accelerates past me, many would not. Didn't even indicate. Happens probably once a week or fortnight at least.

Regularly happens to me on my way to work...on the N11 from past ucd to foxrock.

The junction at foxrock church is by far the worst. The cycle lane is on the footpath, and it's down hill. Because I'm going straight, the cycle lane leads onto the road.

So many times I've had cars pass by me, pull across me turning left despite having my right hand out trying to tell them I'm going straight on.

Jawgap

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

No on the "Left on Red" thing.

You assume people are smart.

Better to assume they are dumb and not allow it.

They'd approach a junction with a red light and a HGV and think it's grand to go up the left.

Grand 'till said light goes green and they are half way up the truck.

What we really need to do is get over our society's restrictions being "irish" and all that it entails, and have HD cameras everywhere for traffic.

Penalise "vehicle owners" using bus lanes via number plates.

Penalise cyclists breaking red lights or what ever.

Penalise ALL people who use the thoroughfares that we all share, illegally.

The technology is available. Your phone might as well be 666 on your head

Also, release accident reports that allow people to be educated. Stop respecting families grief.

It's sad that poor Sarah was killed in a collision, but maybe let it be known that's what happens when you try and over take a 40 foot truck on a blind corner?

Well, I'd assume Dubliners are as smart as Parisians (not sure about boggers though) and it seems the equivalent of "left on red" works ok there? Mind you Paris doesn't have the 'formidable' reputation for traffic that Dublin has

Bunny Colvin

Whatever about Dublin, they're generally not safe in rural Ireland imo. Cyclists are entitled to use them, I appreciate that when I'm driving but all it takes is some lunatic driving recklessly - along with the narrow windy roads you see all over the place. You're playing with fire if you cycle them, same goes for walking.

Jawgap

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

........

It's sad that poor Sarah was killed in a collision, but maybe let it be known that's what happens when you try and over take a 40 foot truck on a blind corner?

Really?

I think you should re-consider that sentence.

2RockMountain

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Teaching rules of the road in primary school would help.

There are programmes in primary schools to teach cycling, with costs covered by local authorities.

I saw some recent reports that the evaluations of similar schemes in the UK showed no positive outcomes in terms of numbers cycling or skills.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm sure it can't be difficult, using google maps, to create a 'heat map' of incidents involving cyclists?
the main issue would be 'spam' style entries, but if commuting cyclists were able to stick a pin on a map, say on cross guns bridge, and say 'i had a close pass from a bus here', it might help identify problematic roads or junctions, especially if the incidents reported are consistent.
main issue would be getting enough reliable data, probably.

It's been done.

Bloggsie wrote: »

Saw a thing on bookface the other day, Get the kids to count the number of cyclists you pass while in the car, that way they look out for them as a kid and hopefully that stays with you when you begin driving". To me it makes sense!

It sounded a bit mumsy to me. Is there any evidence that it actually works?

magicbastarder

2RockMountain wrote: »

It's been done.

yep, someone - was it you? - posted the dublin inquirer one earlier.

2RockMountain

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, someone - was it you? - posted the dublin inquirer one earlier.

Yes, on another thread, I think - sorry, I meant to post the link here again.

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: No one knows what happened, until a coroner or the Gardai report on such there will be no comment on it here.

Until then maybe reserve judgement not out of respect or concern for someone's family but out of common decency for a fellow person you may have said hello to at another junction down the road had this terrible tragedy not occurred and now, sadly, never will.

iguana

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Our 80/100 km/hr speed "limits" on country roads are ludicrous and reinforce this behavior - I was driving that fast because the sign told me to.

They are insanely ludicrous on roads that are essentially twisty, potholey lanes with two way traffic. The only thing is that if you drive at a sensible speed on them (especially if you have L or even N plates) you will inevitably have some terribly put out driver come up behind you, drive aggressively up your arsé and ultimately over-take you regardless of whether or not it's a safe place to attempt it. It can make a driver feel very pressured to speed up even if it's potentially risky in order to end the dangerous driving that is currently happening behind them.

Wishbone Ash

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's one road i cycle on every couple of weeks, the garristown road from the broadmeadow (the R130) and someday, there's going to be a bad smash on that road, as there's a distribution depot on the road which has a constant stream of articulated lorries shuttling to and from it. i've not had any near misses on the bike, thankfully, but i've had a couple in the car. and there's a couple of near 90 degree bends on that road too.

it seems to be the sort of depot which started small and just got bigger and bigger; no way they'd get planning permission for its like on a greenfield site on a road like that if starting from scratch.

Sam Dennigan's? Agree, it's not in a great spot with those bends. Our club has one of it's racing circuits there which probably isn't ideal either.

CramCycle

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Sam Dennigan's? Agree, it's not in a great spot with those bends. Our club has one of it's racing circuits there which probably isn't ideal either.

It seems to be quite common, where a business has done far better than expected and expanded beyond the local infrastructure capabilities. They don't have quite enough to move but they have too much too stay. So it in fact chokes the business slightly. I can think of several fruit / veg suppliers this applies to in rural areas. You then have articulated lorries going down glorified lanes etc.

I do think that somehow local councils should be more proactive but I am not sure how yet.

magicbastarder

my wife is from out near sam dennigans, so we're out that way a lot, and we've also seen trucks (though not in the last year or two) probably taken on the wrong roads by GPS, to it, on lesser roads than the R130. much more scope for an accident when that happens.

the one smash we did come across on that road was not a truck, but on the first bend below dennigans, which was caused by a german tourist who drove around the bend on the wrong side of the road and hit an oncoming car. amazingly, the worst injury seemed to be a split lip and bloody nose.

Unknown Soldier

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

No on the "Left on Red" thing.

You assume people are smart.

Better to assume they are dumb and not allow it.

They'd approach a junction with a red light and a HGV and think it's grand to go up the left.

Grand 'till said light goes green and they are half way up the truck.

That doesn't make any sense.

If they can't go left on red they will STILL go up the inside of the truck, but wait at the lights. We know this can be fatal (nothing to do with recent case, just well documented that this has been a cause of death previously).

If the cyclist can turn left at the red light, it reduces the chance of them setting off at the same time as the HGV, with all the risks that involves.

The chances of the light going green when the cyclist is halfway up the truck remain the same.

It isn't perfect, but it is better.

As said elsewhere actual solution is re-design and reduction in size of urban delivery vehicles.

07Lapierre

Trucks should have sensors on the sides (like parking sensors on cars) which will alert the driver to anyone or anything that the driver cannot see in the mirrors.

greenspurs

Has anyone mentioned anything on this thread that hasn't been mentioned dozens/thousands of times before?

Motorists think cyclists shouldn't be on the road...... Cyclists think the motorists are all bad drivers out to kill them......

Gets a bit tedious, and no one on here will solve it, and the Government/Authorities wont either...

Just look after number 1 out there and try stay safe ! Common sense saves lives.

ford2600

greenspurs wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned anything on this thread that hasn't been mentioned dozens/thousands of times before?

Motorists think cyclists shouldn't be on the road...... Cyclists think the motorists are all bad drivers out to kill them......

Gets a bit tedious, and no one on here will solve it, and the Government/Authorities wont either...

Just look after number 1 out there and try stay safe ! Common sense saves lives.

Most of the traffic on here are bottom feeder threads.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057643386/1/#post100901031

See how busy this thread was, despite it's useful content.

2RockMountain

greenspurs wrote: »

Cyclists think the motorists are all bad drivers out to kill them......

Has any cyclist here actually expressed this view, or did you need to grossly exaggerate to make your point?

greenspurs

2RockMountain wrote: »

Has any cyclist here actually expressed this view, or did you need to grossly exaggerate to make your point?

Its not a exaggeration for a lot of cyclists, you know the ones with cams and an aggressive tone. If you go looking for trouble (like some cyclists do ) then you will find trouble.

If all of us as cyclists , just put our own welfare first, and not place ourselves in mortal danger , then there would be less threads like this one...... repeatedly ... :rolleyes:

2RockMountain

greenspurs wrote: »

Its not a exaggeration for a lot of cyclists, you know the ones with cams and an aggressive tone. If you go looking for trouble (like some cyclists do ) then you will find trouble.

Could you link to one instance of any cyclist on this forum or any helmetcam cyclist on YouTube who said; "the motorists are all bad drivers out to kill them."

MediaMan

greenspurs wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned anything on this thread that hasn't been mentioned dozens/thousands of times before?

Motorists think cyclists shouldn't be on the road...... Cyclists think the motorists are all bad drivers out to kill them......

Gets a bit tedious, and no one on here will solve it, and the Government/Authorities wont either...

Just look after number 1 out there and try stay safe ! Common sense saves lives.

I disagree. Looking after number 1 (which implies not looking after everyone else) is the cause of these problems, not the solution. Helping to foster awarenes and build a sense of purpose to address these issues at a societal level, now that's a solution!

magicbastarder

greenspurs wrote: »

Its not a exaggeration for a lot of cyclists, you know the ones with cams and an aggressive tone. If you go looking for trouble (like some cyclists do ) then you will find trouble.

you did say 'on this thread', and then referred to people not on this thread as evidence?