Are Ireland's roads safe for cyclists?

Alanstrainor

07Lapierre wrote: »

Trucks should have sensors on the sides (like parking sensors on cars) which will alert the driver to anyone or anything that the driver cannot see in the mirrors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpkRHnaJ1aY

I cycled passed a Volvo just yesterday with this system. As I passed the car stopped in traffic, a red light flashed up on the wing mirror to indicate something was in it's blind spot. The technology is there, and it is on relatively normal vehicles for at least a couple of years now. How there aren't calls for trucks to have this as mandatory boggles the mind really...

greenspurs

MediaMan wrote: »

I disagree. Looking after number 1 (which implies not looking after everyone else) is the cause of these problems, not the solution. Helping to foster awarenes and build a sense of purpose to address these issues at a societal level, now that's a solution!

what are you on about ???? Really .......
When I'm out on my bike , I'm looking after myself! I'm not bothered about "fostering awareness and building a sense of purpose " ..... I'm watching for left turning lorries, or the car pulling out in front of me !

greenspurs

magicbastarder wrote: »

you did say 'on this thread', and then referred to people not on this thread as evidence?

and your point is ... ?

magicbastarder

some car manufacturers are looking into removing wing mirrors and replacing them with cameras, as they're desperate to squeeze out as much wind resistance as possible. it'd be a logical extension if this technology became widespread that the cameras could activate on indicator usage, on the relevant side.

magicbastarder

greenspurs wrote: »

and your point is ... ?

my point is trying to figure out what your point was.

Chips Lovell

magicbastarder wrote: »

it'd be a logical extension if this technology became widespread that the cameras could activate on indicator usage, on the relevant side.

Be very handy for the 50% of the population who use indicators.

Jawgap

West Midlands Police are about to get a bit more proactive at enforcing safe passing of cyclists......

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/close-pass-motorists-can-expect-prosecution-not-enforcement-say-cops/020060

.....hopefully the Guards will follow their example.

Love the idea of using 'non-uniformed police cyclists' as part of the initiative.

buffalo

Jawgap wrote: »

West Midlands Police are about to get a bit more proactive at enforcing safe passing of cyclists......

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/close-pass-motorists-can-expect-prosecution-not-enforcement-say-cops/020060

.....hopefully the Guards will follow their example.

Love the idea of using 'non-uniformed police cyclists' as part of the initiative.

This reads like a too-good-to-be-true story...

Wishbone Ash

buffalo wrote: »

This reads like a too-good-to-be-true story...

Especially this bit!

"The police force statement says "analysis of collisions shows that in ...[crashes on the road involving cars and bicycles] the blame would lie solely with the driver not the cyclist."

From the occasional antics I see from some cyclists, I would have thought that a minority of cyclists are to blame for some collisions.

Tin Roofer

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Especially this bit!



From the occasional antics I see from some cyclists, I would have thought that a minority of cyclists are to blame for some collisions.

Yeah, presumably cyclists obey the rules of the road in the UK, something that clearly doesn't happen here given the rampant red light breaking from cyclists, cycling on footpath and cycling the wrong way in one way streets we see here.

Chuchote

Tin Roofer wrote: »

Yeah, presumably cyclists obey the rules of the road in the UK, something that clearly doesn't happen here given the rampant red light breaking from cyclists, cycling on footpath and cycling the wrong way in one way streets we see here.

In some cases, it's more sensible for cyclists to cycle against a one-way system and through red lights and on footpaths; modern road systems normally have exceptions in these cases. Ireland doesn't yet.

However, a cyclist who breaks lights etc does not pose a danger comparable to a driver behind the wheel of a couple of tons of metal who does the same, and this is reflected by the road deaths statistics - another two killed by cars last night, RIP.

Of course, Tin Roofer, you're right that there are inconsiderate cyclists, just as there are inconsiderate drivers (could I point you to the Dash Cam thread? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057386855 boards.ie )

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Cyclists are not a homogenous group. Please remember that before posting.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

West Midlands Police are about to get a bit more proactive at enforcing safe passing of cyclists......

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/close-pass-motorists-can-expect-prosecution-not-enforcement-say-cops/020060

.....hopefully the Guards will follow their example.

Love the idea of using 'non-uniformed police cyclists' as part of the initiative.

Refreshing attitude to cycling enforcement.

From the original article.

Cyclists don’t cause us, as an organisation, problems, that’s because they aren’t causing our communities problems, they aren’t killing nearly 100 people on our regions roads as mechanically propelled vehicles currently do. Yes we do get complaints of the “nuisance” variety, pavement cycling, some anti-social behaviour (usually yobs on bikes rather than “cyclists”), red light running etc. but you get the idea, most peoples interpretation of “1st world problems” or the “modern day blues”, nothing that’s a priority for a force like our own in a modern day society.

Ronaldinho

Chuchote wrote: »

However, a cyclist who breaks lights etc does not pose a danger comparable to a driver

They do pose a danger, to themselves.

Dermot Illogical

Chuchote wrote: »

In some cases, it's more sensible for cyclists to cycle against a one-way system and through red lights and on footpaths; modern road systems normally have exceptions in these cases. Ireland doesn't yet.

How is cycling against the flow, running red lights and pavement cycling in any way sensible? It's idiotic behaviour, and the thought process behind it is exactly the same as when a car driver decides for themselves that they can safely break a few laws here and there.

It's perfectly possible to ride a bike around quite quickly and safely without breaking any laws.

CramCycle

I think convenient was the word, not sensible. Since it is illegal, other road users do not expect it and it becomes unsafe by virtue of being unexpected even if the cyclist in question feels it is safe, it often is not.

2RockMountain

Ronaldinho wrote: »

They do pose a danger, to themselves.

Theoretically, that it correct. Just for context, I don't recall a single case in Ireland of a cyclist being killed or seriously injured when running a red light - do you? It is also worth remembering that more enlightened authorities encourage cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances. In Paris, it is legal for a cyclist to break a red light when turning right (equivalent to our left turn). This avoids a build-up of cyclists waiting for a green light.

Chuchote

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

How is cycling against the flow, running red lights and pavement cycling in any way sensible? It's idiotic behaviour, and the thought process behind it is exactly the same as when a car driver decides for themselves that they can safely break a few laws here and there.

It's perfectly possible to ride a bike around quite quickly and safely without breaking any laws.

My point is that there are cities where these things are legal:

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/contraflow/gegengerichtet.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/27/cyclists-run-red-lights-paris-london-san-francisco
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/adult-cyclists-can-now-ride-on-footpaths-not-just-kids-under-12/news-story/5d956266d260b2ba464a37326f70ecec

These are not generally things I'll do in Ireland, but outraged drivers might be less outraged if they realised that other countries think they're perfectly safe and acceptable.

Ronaldinho

2RockMountain wrote: »

Theoretically, that it correct. Just for context, I don't recall a single case in Ireland of a cyclist being killed or seriously injured when running a red light - do you? It is also worth remembering that more enlightened authorities encourage cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances. In Paris, it is legal for a cyclist to break a red light when turning right (equivalent to our left turn). This avoids a build-up of cyclists waiting for a green light.

My first day cycling I cycled straight out in front of a van at a pedestrian crossing, assuming he was going to turn right as 90% of the traffic does there. Luckily he stuck it to the road, stopping a couple of feet away from me.

That was my lesson learned.

Ray Palmer

Ronaldinho wrote: »

My first day cycling I cycled straight out in front of a van at a pedestrian crossing, assuming he was going to turn right as 90% of the traffic does there. Luckily he stuck it to the road, stopping a couple of feet away from me.

That was my lesson learned.

That was you doing something silly as opposed to making it dangerous in every situation with a red light. There are many junction and lights where cycling through a red light is not dangerous. There is one junction in Dublin where they see to acknowledge this by having the cycle lane turns left before the light which is the same as allowing a left turn on a red.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3497864,-6.2793043,3a,75y,229.87h,66.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTllQ6e106OhwmHzO9E6icg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

jive

One road which really does my head in is macken street heading towards the city. There's 2 lanes; 1 for left ten only and one for right/straight on. Everyone uses the left lane to go straight on when it is left turn only lane because a car turning right will always block up the other lane. They need to either ban right turns or alter the left hand lane so you can use it to go straight on. The place is an absolute shambles, luckily I don't go through there often. If you're in the correct lane on the bike (because you won't get held up as you can filter through the traffic) you inevitably get forced outward to oncoming traffic if you try to defend your right of way to people who went straight on.

rollingscone

So how many people have died in cars this week?

Ray Palmer

rollingscone wrote: »

So how many people have died in cars this week?

Are you suggesting that the number of cyclists killed this week proves cycling is dangerous? I think that is a bit brutal.

stacybeauchamp

No - many of our roads were not designed for cars and cyclists. We also don't have the climate for cycling. I only cycle for pleasure - not for commuting. But fair play to those who do commute.

The main reason why I think it is not safe is because of the aggressive driving habits of Irish drivers. I've driven in both the US and Ireland, and the Irish are far more aggressive.

Jawgap

stacybeauchamp wrote: »

No - many of our roads were not designed for cars and cyclists. We also don't have the climate for cycling. I only cycle for pleasure - not for commuting. But fair play to those who do commute.

The main reason why I think it is not safe is because of the aggressive driving habits of Irish drivers. I've driven in both the US and Ireland, and the Irish are far more aggressive.

No, they were designed for horses and foot traffic?

Climate unsuitable for cycling? We've a more benign climate than both the Netherlands and Denmark.



Commute and save money, while getting fitter

Having cycled in both the NE US and Ireland I much prefer Irish drivers - as 'bad' and all as they are, the vast majority are courteous the vast majority of the time. Outside city areas in the US, in my experience, a significant minority of drivers seem to think cyclists are just 'kids on toys' - or people too poor to drive.

rollingscone

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the number of cyclists killed this week proves cycling is dangerous? I think that is a bit brutal.

Entirely the opposite.

One tragedy involving a cyclist sparks widespread debate about how safe it is to cycle.

Meanwhile the number of driver / passenger fatalities ticks ever upwards with very little widespread consideration.

Wishbone Ash

Jawgap wrote: »

...Outside city areas in the US, in my experience, a significant minority of drivers seem to think cyclists are just 'kids on toys' - or people too poor to drive.

+1

It's even worse in the deep south. Cycling in rural Texas on a road bike with Lycra does not seem to go down well with the 'good old boys'.

shamrock2004

Jawgap wrote: »

......so asks an article on the Journal in the wake of recent collisions that resulted in the deaths of cyclists.



My own view is that yes, Ireland's and Dublin's roads are more than safe enough for cyclists and that too much significance shouldn't be attached to single, tragic, high profile events that garner significant media attention.

Saying that, there's always room for improvement. Personally, I'd like to see....

• Much more vigorous enforcement of the safe passing requirements that exist in Irish road traffic legislation
  
• "Left on red" being allowed at as many junctions as is safe to do so
  
• Much more effort put into road safety, rather than just driver behaviour/standards, by the Road Safety Authority - they could start by dropping their fetishisation of hi-viz and promote proper lighting up along with safe cycling behaviour rather than just autonomic compliance with legislation - there needs to be a recognition that blind compliance with the legislation as it stands is not synonymous with safe cycling
  
• Campaigns to encourage / remind cyclists to avoid the inside of HGVs and how to do so - and campaigns to encourage HGV drivers not to pull alongside cyclists who have already stopped at a junction before them......it's one thing to put cyclists in cabs so they get an impression of what drivers can/cannot see, but why not put HGV drives on bikes and let them experience what cyclists experience?

I would add serious penalties for motorists parking their cars on cycle paths. See it all the time on the Alfie Byrne road and it drives me loopy.

Fighting Tao

shamrock2004 wrote: »

I would add serious penalties for motorists parking their cars on cycle paths. See it all the time on the Alfie Byrne road and it drives me loopy.

It's worse when there is a match on in Croke Park. So many buses use it to park. They should be moved on and have to come back for pick up after the match.

jive

Deedsie wrote: »

The climate in Ireland is perfectly fine for cycling >50 weeks per year. Thats a nonsensical argument, look at the numbers that cycle to work everyday already, look at the number of cycling clubs and Triathlon clubs in Ireland with thousands of competitive cyclists.

Cool to Mild inclement weather all year round. Perfect.

Yeah the climate is such a lame excuse for people to justify taking the car. Fair enough, it's not California and splitting the stones 300+ days a year but in Ireland the only time it isn't safe to cycle it also isn't safe to drive either and that doesn't even happen every year.

I started commuting by bike last November, I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't get absolutely soaked every day. It's genuinely hard to believe how little you actually get rained on. Plus if you stomach the cold of winter the spring and summer commutes just feel amazing