Are Ireland's roads safe for cyclists?

Wishbone Ash

jive wrote: »

... It's genuinely hard to believe how little you actually get rained on...

Yes, I get wet on about 1 in 10 commutes. It only rains about one day a week here but some people seem to think it's six days a week.

tomasrojo

The weather in Ireland is very conducive to cycling. Infrequent ice, temperatures that almost never are high enough to make physical activity difficult or very unpleasant. A bit of wind and rain is nothing, and easily dealt with anyway.

ford2600

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yes, I get wet on about 1 in 10 commutes. It only rains about one day a week here but some people seem to think it's six days a week.

Jackeen central around here! 800mm rain versus 2000mm plus in the Motherland!

Chuchote

ford2600 wrote: »

Jackeen central around here! 800mm rain versus 2000mm plus in the Motherland!

You should be thankful for our dry humour.

ted1

stacybeauchamp wrote: »

No - many of our roads were not designed for cars and cyclists. We also don't have the climate for cycling. I only cycle for pleasure - not for commuting. But fair play to those who do commute.

The main reason why I think it is not safe is because of the aggressive driving habits of Irish drivers. I've driven in both the US and Ireland, and the Irish are far more aggressive.

Our climate is good for cycling. No worries about heat exhaustion, very few days with ice on the roads. Just layer up in the winter and keep a rain jacket in the pocket for the odd days it rains

Firedance

shamrock2004 wrote: »

I would add serious penalties for motorists parking their cars on cycle paths. See it all the time on the Alfie Byrne road and it drives me loopy.

I emailed my local garda station about this the other day, every morning since the schools are back parents parking in the cycle lane to drop their kids at an unofficial bus stop. I've no idea whether they will do anything about but might as well bring it to their attention as not..

cdaly_

shamrock2004 wrote: »

I would add serious penalties for motorists parking their cars on cycle paths. See it all the time on the Alfie Byrne road and it drives me loopy.

Just wait until the new cycle lane opens at St Anne's Park. I presume it'll be full of parked cars every sunny weekend...

S. Goodspeed

rollingscone wrote: »

Entirely the opposite.

One tragedy involving a cyclist sparks widespread debate about how safe it is to cycle.

Meanwhile the number of driver / passenger fatalities ticks ever upwards with very little widespread consideration.

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of motor fatalities occur in the early hours of the morning (and often at the weekend). Very very few motorists die on their way to work or school in the morning. And in fairness there have been, and still are, numerous expensive campaigns to eradicate drink drink and speeding (the two main causes)

Chuchote

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of motor fatalities occur in the early hours of the morning (and often at the weekend). Very very few motorists die on their way to work or school in the morning. And in fairness there have been, and still are, numerous expensive campaigns to eradicate drink drink and speeding (the two main causes)

Do they, though? I kept a record for a couple of months until it became too depressing:

Wednesday 13 January 2016 Dog-walker killed in 16:10 crash in Shanballyduff, Tipperary
Monday 18 January 2016 Pedestrian killed in 07:15 crash in Cavan
Thursday21 January 2016 Teenage drivers killed in 08:30 crash into tree in Armagh
Thurssday 21 January 2016 Driver killed in 23:55 crash into wall in Spiddal, Galway
Friday 29 January 2016 Driver killed in 19:45 two-car collision in Kilkenny
Saturday 30 January 2016 Driver killed in 20:30 three-car collision in Waterford
Saturday 30 January 2016 Pedestrian killed at 01:55 in Durrus, west Cork
Saturday 30 January 2016 Pedestrian killed, 2 gardaí injured in 00:30 Ardrahan crash
Wednesday 3 February 2016 Driver killed in 05:40 single-vehicle Armagh crash
Saturday 6 February 2016 Driver killed in 14:00 collision with truck in Laytown, Meath
Sunday 7 February 2016 Pedestrian killed in 06:45 crash in Castleconnell, Limerick
Wednesday 10 February 2016 Driver dies after coma following 09:50 crash in Antrim
Saturday 13 February 2016 Driver killed, 4 injured in 01:30 Westmeath crash
Thursday 18 February 2016 Pedestrian dies after being trapped under 4x4 in Limerick
Friday 19 February 2016 Driver killed in 17:00 crash between 2 trucks and car in Mayo
Saturday 20 February 2016 Driver (18) killed in single-car midnight crash in Kildare
Sunday 21 February 2016 Pedestrian (70) killed by car in 18:55 Sunday crash in Derry
Friday 26 February 2016 Boy (11) killed in 13:35 Clondalkin crash of sulky and truck
Saturday 27 February 2016 Driver in 30s killed in 08:30 Galway crash of car and truck
Monday 29 February 2016 Driver (53) killed in 01:30 single-car crash in Limerick
Friday 4 March 2015 Pedestrian in 30s killed crossing N62 near Thurles at 17:40 Friday
Sunday 6 March 2016 Driver in 30s killed in 23:30 crash at Rathkeale service station
Tuesday 8 March 2016 Pedestrian (64) killed in 20:30 crash in Dysart, Portlaoise
8 March 2016 Teenage cyclist killed in 19:10 crash with car in west Cork
Monday 14 March 2016 Passenger in her 70s killed in 23:30 crash in Togher, Louth
St Patrick’s Day 17 March 2016 Driver (23), passenger (28) die two days after 19:40 Limerick crash
Sunday 20 March 2016 Trucker (72) killed in noon Mallow crash of artic, 4 cars, horsebox
Sunday 20 March 2016 Motorcyclist (30s) killed in 16:30 crash in Meath
Sunday 20 March 2016 Family of five killed as car slips off Donegal pier at 19:15
Monday 21 March 2016 Driver (40) dies in 23:20 two-car crash in Roscommon
Sunday 27 March 2016 Motorcyclist (43) dies in 13.40 crash with Truck near Dunboyne
Bank holiday Monday 28 March 2016 Driver (69) killed in 15:00 Cliffoney, Sligo crash
Saturday 2 April 2016 Pedestrian (73) dies when struck by truck at noon in Bantry town square
Tuesday 5 April 2016 2 pensioners in 70s killed in 17:00 2-car crash outside Mallow Hospital
Wednesday 6 April 2016 driver (21) killed in 21:00 2-car crash in Carryduff, Belfast
Thursday 7 April 2016 driver in 30s killed in single-car 17:00 crash in Clownstown, Meath
Saturday 9 April 2016 pedestrian (19) killed in half past noon hit-and-run in Armagh
Thursday 14 April 2016 Motorcyclist (25) killed in 20:45 crash with road sign in Tipperary
Saturday 16 April 2016 Pedestrian killed at 03:00 on N2 dual carriageway in Finglas
Saturday 23 April 2016 Cyclist in his 50s killed in 07:00 crash in Blackrock, Louth
Wednesday 27 April 2016 Driver in 30s drowns in 06:00 crash into canal in Allenwood, Kildare
Monday 2 May 2016 Driver killed in 7pm three-car crash in Ballyclare, Antrim
Wednesday 4 May 2016 Pedestrian in her 80s killed in 13:00 crash in Cabinteely
Wednesday 4 May 2016 Pedestrian in her 70s killed in 13:00 crash in Carrick-on-Suir
Thursday 5 May 2016 Cyclist (59) dies after 20:40 crash with pedestrian on Phoenix Park cycle lane
Monday 9 May 2016 Motorcyclist in his 40s killed in 15:45 crash with van in Ballinahaglish, Mayo
Thursday 12 May 2016 Motorcyclist (36) killed as bike crashes in Greystones roundabout at 18:30 and bursts into flames
Saturday 14 May 2016 Motorcyclist (20) killed in road race crash at Dhu Varren, Portrush, Antrim
Sunday 15 May 2016 Motorcyclist in his 30s killed in 18:45 crash with wall in Ballyheigue, Kerry
Tuesday 17 May 2016 Passenger (20) killed in 20:30 two-car crash in Ballincollig, west Cork
Friday 20 May 2016 Driver in his 80s killed in 16:00 crash into tree in Ballydoogan, Galway
Saturday 28 May 2016 Female back seat passenger (20) killed in 22:20 two-car crash outside Slane¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Tuesday 31 May 2016 Male front seat passenger (35) killed in 16:45 motorcycle-car crash outside Kilrush
Tuesday 31 May 2016 Pedestrian killed when he was struck by car at 8:35 in Ballyroe, Kerry

stateofflux

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Teaching rules of the road in primary school would help.

i think teaching them reaction braking and swerving and situational awareness would be way more practical

magicbastarder

kinda shoehorning this one in here, but a lot of what is discussed is relevant re parents allowing their kids out on their own, which would feed into the debate about kids cycling on public roads:

http://qz.com/770655/kids-are-paying-the-price-for-their-parents-judginess-of-other-parents/

Chuchote

And we come back to my desire for protected cycle lanes to schools, which seems to me the best way of putting the thin end of the wedge into our clingy parenting style and its resultant obesity, childhood diabetes, ultra-caution, etc.

boardbeer

Chuchote wrote: »

And we come back to my desire for protected cycle lanes to schools, which seems to me the best way of putting the thin end of the wedge into our clingy parenting style and its resultant obesity, childhood diabetes, ultra-caution, etc.

The easiest and cheapest measure would be to bring more 30 kph limits in, especially near schools: this would make both cycling and walking to school safer. Also, enforce no parking near schools to stop all the parking on the pavement insanity that you see daily around our schools.

CramCycle

boardbeer wrote: »

The easiest and cheapest measure would be to bring more 30 kph limits in, especially near schools: this would make both cycling and walking to school safer. Also, enforce no parking near schools to stop all the parking on the pavement insanity that you see daily around our schools.

Far more importantly, ANPR cameras coupled with average speed and other such things so that they actually work.

Chuchote

boardbeer wrote: »

The easiest and cheapest measure would be to bring more 30 kph limits in, especially near schools: this would make both cycling and walking to school safer. Also, enforce no parking near schools to stop all the parking on the pavement insanity that you see daily around our schools.

CramCycle wrote: »

Far more importantly, ANPR cameras coupled with average speed and other such things so that they actually work.

Yes, from the point of view of good sense. But from the point of view of frightened, clingy parents, totally protected cycle lanes would work better. And I'm speaking as a highly qualified Irish Mammy here.

2RockMountain

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of motor fatalities occur in the early hours of the morning (and often at the weekend). Very very few motorists die on their way to work or school in the morning. And in fairness there have been, and still are, numerous expensive campaigns to eradicate drink drink and speeding (the two main causes)

From http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Crash%20Stats/A%20review%20of%202015%20fatal%20collision%20statistics%20July%2031st%202015.pdf

The following graph shows the distribution of road deaths by hour of day from January to 31st July 2015.
The greatest number of fatalities so far this year occurred in the afternoon and evening (from 16-22 hours); peaks were also noted in the early hours of the morning (2-4am) and late morning (10-12pm).

Fairly even spread through the day, tbh.

CramCycle

Chuchote wrote: »

Yes, from the point of view of good sense. But from the point of view of frightened, clingy parents, totally protected cycle lanes would work better. And I'm speaking as a highly qualified Irish Mammy here.

Speaking as a parent myself, it is probably the one issue we disagree on, my partner amd.me, not you and me. My son is mollycoddled. I am not ashamed of this but I am annoyed with my partner when little risks are overplayed and extensive, frankly unnecessary, precautions are taken that in my mind will be detrimental to our son in the long run. I say this looking on at the negative effects of my adult daughter who was and is also mollycoddled. Great girl but behind the curve in risk association as we over played it and she now doesn't reallyknow how too look out to see danger.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Speaking as a parent myself, it is probably the one issue we disagree on, my partner amd.me, not you and me. My son is mollycoddled. I am not ashamed of this but I am annoyed with my partner when little risks are overplayed and extensive, frankly unnecessary, precautions are taken that in my mind will be detrimental to our son in the long run. I say this looking on at the negative effects of my adult daughter who was and is also mollycoddled. Great girl but behind the curve in risk association as we over played it and she now doesn't reallyknow how too look out to see danger.

Exackally my point. If there were protected cycle lanes the kids would be cycling, and the mere fact of them cycling to school would return a little realism to the scared mammies (and daddies) and a little self-reliance to the kids. Inevitably they'd have the occasional tumble, and it wouldn't do them much harm. And once they were cycling regularly to school, they'd want to cycle to other places…

Edit: and if all their friends were cycling, there's be a kind of mental green wave, and parents would relaxio.

boardbeer

Chuchote wrote: »

Edit: and if all their friends were cycling, there's be a kind of mental green wave, and parents would relaxio.

That's the problem: my daughter was a great cyclist all through primary school, across Maynooth everyday (a crazy traffic filled town, if ever there was one), but that ended the first day at the post-primary: no one else cycles, except one member of staff.

Chuchote

boardbeer wrote: »

That's the problem: my daughter was a great cyclist all through primary school, across Maynooth everyday (a crazy traffic filled town, if ever there was one), but that ended the first day at the post-primary: no one else cycles, except one member of staff.

But if there were protected cycle lanes leading to schools, parents would be confident to allow kids to cycle - especially as the price of running a car goes up and up.

For teenagers, it's better to be dead than to be out of the fashion, so it's important to make cycling the easiest, safest way to travel.

Lemming

All this talk of cycle lanes, etc. ... it's all moot. What is needed is traffic enforcement. Without that, the problem just gets moved a few hundred metres down the road as people will continue to do as they please whilst driving (or parking as the case may be in some cases).

ED E

Lemming wrote: »

All this talk of cycle lanes, etc. ... it's all moot. What is needed is traffic enforcement. Without that, the problem just gets moved a few hundred metres down the road as people will continue to do as they please whilst driving (or parking as the case may be in some cases).

None of it will be fixed until we have a civilian head of AGS.

Dermot Illogical

But this thread is about our roads, not ones abroad. If the laws are amended and infrastructure put in place then it's fine. In the absence of those changes footpad cycling, salmoning and jumping red lights remain idiotic behaviour.
Doing it here is just adding randomness to already chaotic traffic.
And it's still quite easy to get around quickly and safely without doing any of that stuff. My commute takes me all the way across Dublin city and I've never had to break any rules of the road for safety or convenience.

Chuchote wrote: »

My point is that there are cities where these things are legal:

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/contraflow/gegengerichtet.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/oct/27/cyclists-run-red-lights-paris-london-san-francisco
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/adult-cyclists-can-now-ride-on-footpaths-not-just-kids-under-12/news-story/5d956266d260b2ba464a37326f70ecec

These are not generally things I'll do in Ireland, but outraged drivers might be less outraged if they realised that other countries think they're perfectly safe and acceptable.

smacl

Chuchote wrote: »

Exackally my point. If there were protected cycle lanes the kids would be cycling, and the mere fact of them cycling to school would return a little realism to the scared mammies (and daddies) and a little self-reliance to the kids. Inevitably they'd have the occasional tumble, and it wouldn't do them much harm. And once they were cycling regularly to school, they'd want to cycle to other places…

Edit: and if all their friends were cycling, there's be a kind of mental green wave, and parents would relaxio.

I agree in principal but, even with safe routes, a lot of parents are far too overprotective and a bit clueless about cycling. Before the opening of the new school my youngest (13) is attending we had a meeting with other parents. When I mentioned our intention for youngest to cycle the 10k each way, they were all horrified, stating it wasn't safe and was too far. I was quite surprised, thought I might have got it wrong, so cycled there and back with youngest that evening and she was fine. Even now though her mum is very nervous about her cycling, which is taking some work to get around. The collective paranoia evident in the other parents doesn't help matters. As for the separated infrastructure, for the few dodgy sections without cycle lanes she just breaks the law and cycles on the path like every other Irish kid before her. Planning a safe route for your kids to get from A to B takes a bit of work, and my experience is you really need to cycle them first yourself because they can be far from intuitive. Lots of little estates that appear not to have through roads can be cycled though and make for better options than the official infrastructure.

Totally with you on increased independence, and think it is important to develop greater roaming circles for growing kids. Good for their heath, happiness and confidence.

Chuchote

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

But this thread is about our roads, not ones abroad. If the laws are amended and infrastructure put in place then it's fine. In the absence of those changes footpad cycling, salmoning and jumping red lights remain idiotic behaviour.
Doing it here is just adding randomness to already chaotic traffic.
And it's still quite easy to get around quickly and safely without doing any of that stuff. My commute takes me all the way across Dublin city and I've never had to break any rules of the road for safety or convenience.

The roads abroad were the same until they were changed so that larger numbers of cyclists could transit the cities safely. We're having an unprecedented rise in the number of cyclists in Dublin, and this will follow in other cities.

I cycle in Dublin, but I prefer to cycle on quiet little roads, and where possible in roads with no cars at all.

Parchment

i cycle daily and my answer would be 50:50. City cycling is not safe here for sure. A combination of drivers not caring and the physical layout of many cities - the streets are not wide enough to allow cycle lanes/narrow streets forcing cyclists to cycle close to parked cars (doors opening is a constant fear) to fit onto the street along with the moving traffic.

When i cycle on a road bike i stick to quieter roads with hard shoulders to stay out of traffics way.

Im just back from Wroclaw in Poland - a really cycle friendly city. So many people of all ages cycling around the city. there is a huge network of protected cycle lanes that can bring you in and around the city. Drivers/cyclists/pedestrians obey the traffic lights/divisions on the paths for walking/cycle lanes. it was a pleasure, i actually long to live somewhere like that! To be able to hop on my bike and head into town without having to cover myself in high-viz etc.

2RockMountain

I hear that Claire Byrne is covering cycle deaths on RTE1 now in a few minutes

monkeysnapper

I've been cycling rain or shine to work for past 2 years .

I have finally had enough , the amount of times I've been dangerously over taken , overtaken only to turn left in front of me, people walking out in front of me , pulling out of junctions in front of me.

I've put extra lighting on even during summer, clothing.

I decided its just not worth the hassle , the car it is, I saw a cycle trainer on local buy and sell today and that's what I'm going to do in evenings for winter , bought Chromecast and a fan .

The Mrs will be delighted she won't have me ranting like Victor meldrew every evening from now on .

I might even make it to 50 now .

greenspurs

I went out to do a handy 50k last Saturday. Beautiful sunny morning.
I had 3 incidents during the journey ! 2 on roundabouts ( 1 big roundabout , 1 medium sized)
I was on the left hand lane to exit the big roundabout , arm up to indicate I was taking the 2nd exit, and saw a car coming up on the inside (my right hand side) , he overtook me, and then flew in in front of me while taking the exit! Pointless ! To gain a few seconds....
Incident 2 - medium size roundabout near Sean Kelly Sports centre , I moved out to gain control of the single lane entry to the roundabout, and saw a white Smart car being driven up beside me. She kept squeezing up beside me ( less than a foot away) while we both reached the roundabout. she got in ahead of me while I braked , and then stopped at the roundabout...... I then started to question her driving 'skills' !
Then to top it off... cycling into my estate, Car reversing back into my path, onto the 'road' without looking, I could foresee what she was doing, and I had to stop and clip out. When she finally looked over her right shoulder and saw me standing there, I got the half wave and half smile thing ........ I didn't question her driving as it was a neighbours mother !!!!!
that's just on one handy 50km spin on the N24 !
The irony is that Carrick have produced two top professional cyclists, and it is quite bad cycling through it....

Chuchote

greenspurs wrote: »

Then to top it off... cycling into my estate, Car reversing back into my path, onto the 'road' without looking

It should be illegal to reverse out of a driveway.

I never did it again after the time I was snailing sloooowly out when a mammy came racing behind the car. I stood on the brakes - and saw her leading a tiny toddler out the other side; the child was too small to be seen through a back window, but would have been visible over a bonnet.