Munster vs Cardiff, Fri 9 Sept 7:35pm; TG4/BBCWales

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Keatley getting a lot of flak and he wasn't great but there were bad errors all over the field. That was far too good a Munster pack to come off second best at the breakdown. They lost possession crucially at least 3 times for holding on well into Blues territory. The ball was slow and scrappy.

The pack will get their sh*t together but Munster need an outhalf. It's no coincidence that their demise coincided with ROG's performances sliding. Keatley's confidence is irreparably broken at this point it appears and TB is completely made of glass (as well as not really being good enough for what's needed either).

The loss of Holland has done huge damage to Munster's season.

It's a real shame Bill Johnston got injured for the 20s. He looks to have serious potential.

bleg

Unfortunate loss. Not the end of the world. When Munster went ahead in the second half I reckoned that was it all over. You have to credit Cardiff for hanging in there. They had a lot of their first choice and international players selected for that game.

funtime93

How does Duncan Williams earn a wage as a rugby player? One of life's mysteries.

washman3

funtime93 wrote: »

How does Duncan Williams earn a wage as a rugby player? One of life's mysteries.

Check out his links in Cork..!!
'jobs for the boys'

phog

After the teams were announced I thought we'd be lucky to get a LBP and that's what transpired, in one sense we were unlucky to lose it but poor discipline, execution & decision making combined with soft tackles ( just like last year), inconsistent refereeing cost us.

Other than the three injuries we picked up I wouldn't be too despondent after last night's game but the improvements we saw last week need to built on.

Adbrowne

phog wrote: »

After the teams were announced I thought we'd be lucky to get a LBP and that's what transpired, in one sense we were unlucky to lose it but poor discipline, execution & decision making combined with soft tackles ( just like last year), inconsistent refereeing cost us.

Other than the three injuries we picked up I wouldn't be too despondent after last night's game but the improvements we saw last week need to built on.

What do you mean about poor refereeing specifically?

Scarlets showing in embra puts last weeks win into context.

thomond2006

I can't help but be frustrated that Murray, Earls etc will start at home against Zebre in October, a game Munster can win in their sleep, and weren't available for this game.

Buer

phog wrote: »

After the teams were announced I thought we'd be lucky to get a LBP and that's what transpired

I don't understand that. It's 13 of the same players who started last week. Zebo was replaced by Conway who is an absolutely fine replacement. Keatley was poor but TB isn't anything special. Plus Stander and Casey were back in the mix too.

It's a lost opportunity but still a lot of good there and Munster had more than enough to win comfortably in the second half. The ball should have gone through the hands more than it did. A lot of time was lost by the pack trying to take everything on up the jumper which Cardiff absorbed very well. Munster played right into their hands and failed to change it up.

There were occasions when the play was extremely narrow with a glut of defenders dragged in. It was screaming for the ball to be put out to Conway to burn in for a simple try.

Felix Jones is God

Conway isn't within an asses roar of being a fine replacement for Zebo
And Tyler B showed his range of passing last week and his kicking from hand was spot on too....Tyler at 10 Keats at 15 works ..but we need Murray, Earls and POM back soon to being a bit of stability to the side

Felix Jones is God

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Conway isn't within an asses roar of being a fine replacement for Zebo
And Tyler B showed his range of passing last week and his kicking from hand was spot on too....Tyler at 10 Keats at 15 works ..but we need Murray, Earls and POM back soon to being a bit of stability to the side

Going on pro12 performances last season I thought Conway had a better season than Zebo.

Buer

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Conway isn't within an asses roar of being a fine replacement for Zebo

Complete hyperbole. The bloke was your first choice full back last season in Europe.

Zebo might be better at 15 for Munster, he might not. It's not his strongest position. But either way the difference isn't vast and Conway is certainly a completely acceptable replacement for a Pro12 game at home.

irishbucsfan

Tyler B played 66 minutes last weekend. If Keatley had the luxury of cover from the bench last night I think it would have been a different story.

molloyjh

Buer wrote: »

Complete hyperbole. The bloke was your first choice full back last season in Europe.

Zebo might be better at 15 for Munster, he might not. It's not his strongest position. But either way the difference isn't vast and Conway is certainly a completely acceptable replacement for a Pro12 game at home.

I thought Conway played really well yesterday. Did pretty much everything he could have.

I said last week you couldn't judge Munster on the Scarlets performance because Scarlets were just so bad. Cardiff highlighted that quite starkly last night. Erasmus has a fair bit of work to do yet.

On the positive side though I don't think Munster are that far off. In the third quarter I thought they'd pull clear of Cardiff. They were dominating the game and just need to learn to be a bit more clinical about it when they get that dominance. Sweetnam was good again, which is great news for both Munster and Ireland. We need wingers badly so hopefully he can push on this season.

Felix Jones is God

Buer wrote: »

Complete hyperbole. The bloke was your first choice full back last season in Europe.

Zebo might be better at 15 for Munster, he might not. It's not his strongest position. But either way the difference isn't vast and Conway is certainly a completely acceptable replacement for a Pro12 game at home.

Complete rubbish!
Conway is a good winger, but a poor fb, his performances last season showed that...anyway, I'll leave you to your hyperbole of soup

former total

I don't think personnel were really the issue.

Second game under a new coaching team, it showed especially in defence.

No panic, no need for the witch hunt yet.

former total

former total wrote: »

I don't think personnel were really the issue.

Second game under a new coaching team, it showed especially in defence.

No panic, no need for the witch hunt yet.

This is pretty reasonable. Still some players to return due to internationals/injury too. Losing at home isn't a great look though.

CatFromHue

I only saw the last 20 mins and i was impresed by Cardiff, I didn't think they'd be able to close out the game so well.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

I only saw the last 20 mins and i was impresed by Cardiff, I didn't think they'd be able to close out the game so well.

After about 50 mins I was positive Munster would win by a score or two.

CatFromHue

I was surprised that when there was only 5 or mins to go and they were a point up they player smart and in Munster's half too.

That was a game they would have lost in previous seasons.

Zzippy

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Complete rubbish!
Conway is a good winger, but a poor fb, his performances last season showed that...anyway, I'll leave you to your hyperbole of soup

Zebo's also a good winger and a poor fb in many people's opinion. Conway was very good last night. "Not within an asses roar of Zebo" is absolutely hyperbole.

Felix Jones is God

Zzippy wrote: »

Zebo's also a good winger and a poor fb in many people's opinion. Conway was very good last night. "Not within an asses roar of Zebo" is absolutely hyperbole.

No, it isnt. In fact the very fact that you and a.n.other seem to think there is any comparison between Munsters top tryscorer and a journeyman pro12 level player is quite frankly laughable

thomond2006

All aboard the Darren Sweetnam bandwagon. He's going to be top class IMO.

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

No, it isnt. In fact the very fact that you and a.n.other seem to think there is any comparison between Munsters top tryscorer and a journeyman pro12 level player is quite frankly laughable

Journeyman? He's been with two clubs. Writing him off as a pro12 level player at 25 is laughable, he has seasons left to improve.

case885

thomond2006 wrote:

All aboard the Darren Sweetnam bandwagon. He's going to be top class IMO.

He's bulked up quite a bit too the past year which was the only thing he was lacking.
Looking forward to seeing how he gets on in European games.

Felix Jones is God

thomond2006 wrote: »

All aboard the Darren Sweetnam bandwagon. He's going to be top class IMO.



Journeyman? He's been with two clubs. Writing him off as a pro12 level player at 25 is laughable, he has seasons left to improve.

Well if he improves you can sit there and tell me " I told you so" until then, i stick by my opinion

phog

Work in Progress - WTV's blog of the game

phog

Three Red Kings analysed our kicking game

On Friday night, Munster’s kicking game – much like the film The Crying Game – was a slow reveal of something that was unpleasant and unexpected. The sensible kicking from the week before at Llanelli was replaced with a variety of poor kicks from the hand that bore all the echoes of the worst of last season.

In a way, I understand why Keatley and Williams went with the garryowen so often. In Darren Sweetnam and Ronan O’Mahony, Munster had two excellent, physical kick chasers. Why not use them? In theory, it was a good plan. In practice? Not so much. My main issue was with the poor execution of these kicks and the opportunities that were given up in place of them. Let’s have a gander.

aloooof

TRK has a GIF article up on Sweetnam as well, well worth a read.

phog

aloooof wrote: »

TRK has a GIF article up on Sweetnam as well, well worth a read.

Here it is - must read it later

leakyboots

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

No, it isnt. In fact the very fact that you and a.n.other seem to think there is any comparison between Munsters top tryscorer and a journeyman pro12 level player is quite frankly laughable

I think you'll struggle to find people to agree with your assessment of Conway to be honest - he's done a very solid job when called upon

Mahatma Geansai

leakyboots wrote: »

I think you'll struggle to find people to agree with your assessment of Conway to be honest - he's done a very solid job when called upon

I agree with the sentiment that Conway and Zebo are in different leagues as players, but I wouldn't agree with the journeyman comment. Conway's move to Munster has probably done his career more harm than good. Leinster are crying out for some attacking talent and pace in their back 3.

Mahatma Geansai

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment that Conway and Zebo are in different leagues as players, but I wouldn't agree with the journeyman comment. Conway's move to Munster has probably done his career more harm than good. Leinster are crying out for some attacking talent and pace in their back 3.

I doubt Conway would be starting for Leinster. Kirchner is faster firstly (also faster then Zebo as demonstrated in his intercept try last season). Isa whilst two years retired scored more tries than Zebo last season and was 1 short of equalling the top pro 12 try scorers. And Dave Kearney is a better winger than Zebo or Conway as is demonstrated by Ireland selections so where he would fit in I don't know. Maybe with some injuries but otherwise he is getting more game time down south.

As for the gulf between Zebo and Conway all I'll say is this, in a 1v1 situation going for a try I'd rather Zebo. In a 1v1 situation defending the try line I'd take Conway.

Felix Jones is God

For those who can't see the wood for the trees, a fit and firing Conway probably won't even make the bench for a full strength Munster side, hard as it seems for some to grasp

Cookiemunster

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

For those who can't see the wood for the trees, a fit and firing Conway probably won't even make the bench for a full strength Munster side, hard as it seems for some to grasp

Give it up. You're on your own on this one.

Felix Jones is God

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Give it up. You're on your own on this one.

Don't really care to be honest, anybody that can't see the gulf in ability between the 2 players is either blind or living in a cave

phog

I'd have Zebo ahead of Conway as a FB or Winger but I'm glad we got Conway from Leinster and not Dave Kearney.

CatFromHue

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

For those who can't see the wood for the trees, a fit and firing Conway probably won't even make the bench for a full strength Munster side, hard as it seems for some to grasp

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Give it up. You're on your own on this one.

Fjig is only echoing Conway's own assessment of where he's at. He did an interview with the Times towards the end of last season and marked himself down as solid at Pro12 but still to show he's up for it at HEC level. These are his words as well by the way.

I'd largely agree too.

Mahatma Geansai

former total wrote: »

A Conway vs Zebo debate and you still can't help yourself.

Sad.

Is it any worse than Venjur trying to start a Kearney vs Zebo debate when Conway was mentioned?

Conway is a good player for Munster, but he could have been a better player for Leinster, as Leinster don't have any players who offer a similar attacking threat.

former total

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Is it any worse than Venjur trying to start a Kearney vs Zebo debate when Conway was mentioned?

Conway is a good player for Munster, but he could have been a better player for Leinster, as Leinster don't have any players who offer a similar attacking threat.

Conway needed games. He was more likely to get them at Munster so it was a good move for him. He's not competing with Zebo, he's been competing with VDH, Sweetnam and ROM. He made the right call.

FACECUTTR

former total wrote: »

Conway needed games. He was more likely to get them at Munster so it was a good move for him. He's not competing with Zebo, he's been competing with VDH, Sweetnam and ROM. He made the right call.

Completely agree. He's not warming the bench at Leinster or worse only getting a few A games. He's a good squad player. Hes getting more gametime and that's what it's about.

flogthebog

I was of the thought that conway showed the talent (at u-20 ireland) that ringrose shows today at leinster. i will be a tad harsh to some and say munster simply is not using its backline terribly well