AirBnB Megathread - ALL A&P related Airbnb discussion here please

windmilllane

Hi, I have my house advertised on airbnb but want to do minimum stay of 5 nights. I haven't had one query. Am I right in thinking airbnb is mainly just used for short stays. Tia

4ensic15

76544567 wrote: »

Actually I studied law in college. Wasn't my major, but was a years worth of it. I read plenty.

But that's neither here nor there. I'm not a solicitor. And I'm.not expecting anybody to take.my word for.anything.

Lets for a minute indulge his fantasy scenario.
How many opportunities are there for his little scenario to break down over the time it takes to become what he thinks.

The chances of winning the lottery are better.

First off there would have to be zero takers on airbnb at the weekends, even one night during his time period. In the unlikely event of that happening you get a mate to book it for a night in airbnb. If that's not enough he can even post photos of his night of bedauchery on Facebook.

And still you have to get a guy who.is booking or airbnb 5 nights every week, to be the kind of idiot to go and make up a story that he books 5 nights but really sneaks back to use the place on the nights he hasn't booked. And then you need an idiot in the RTB who.woukd believe that story.

And on and on. Let's just say we can be pretty sure that fantasy situation the poster describes won't come about.

What are the chances that the landlord who wants a long term let is going to turn up with cleaners every Friday night and every Sunday night to ready the place for the next occupants? What are the chances the landlord gets a bit lazy and doesn't bother? What are the chances the tenant begins leaving this there? When the row happens it will be before a heavily biased tribunal.

4ensic15

76544567 wrote: »

Well that's a likely situation from start to finish now isn't

Listen to yourself.

Come back.when it happens with an example.

http://www.rtb.ie/archive/2008%20Disputes/TRIBUNALS%202008/DOTR154_07/Tribunal%20Report.pdf

Where a licence agreement is claimed, not only the written form of the licence but the reality of how it is operated (or its substance) must also be examined and the Tribunal is satisfied that the reality as operated on the ground in this given case points clearly to a licence agreement and not a lease agreement. It is relevant to note that the Appellant Tenants signed the said written agreement on 12 separate pages.
Although the said agreement between the parties dated 2 September 2013 was described as a licence and had many of the written hallmarks of a licence agreement, it does not necessarily follow that, merely on that account it is to be regarded as amounting to a licence agreement in law. Lord Denning M.R. in Shell Mex .v. Manchester Garages (1971) 1 WLR 612 held that whether the transaction is a licence or a tenancy does not
depend on the label which is put on it. It depends on the nature of the transaction itself. In this case which has been cited as a persuasive authority in numerous cases in this jurisdiction, the plaintiff owned a filling station in Manchester and allowed the defendant company go into occupation. In holding that the agreement constituted a licence, Denning
MR held, ‘Whether a transaction is a licence or a tenancy depends upon its substance and not upon the label or formal language. Broadly speaking, we have to see whether it is a personal privilege given to a person (in which case it is a licence), or whether it grants an interest in land (in which case it is a tenancy). At one time it used to be thought that exclusive possession was a decisive factor. But that is not so. It depends on broader considerations altogether. Primarily on whether it is personal in its nature or not.

__Alex__

windmilllane wrote: »

Hi, I have my house advertised on airbnb but want to do minimum stay of 5 nights. I haven't had one query. Am I right in thinking airbnb is mainly just used for short stays. Tia

Where do you live? If it's outside a city, five nights might be a lot, even in a scenic area. Hell, even for cities, five nights is a lot in Ireland as people tend to tour the country.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

All very well in theory. What is the reality of the landlord turning up every Friday night with cleaners? What if the "guest" leaves some of his belongings there at the weekend? The RTB will look at the reality of the situation. If the "guest" says he leaves belongings in the dwelling permanently, and that when he returns on Mondays there is never any evidence that anyone has in fact stayed in the dwelling, the spell RTB is quite likely to hold that this is in fact a tenancy, dressed up as a series of short licence periods.

Well I actually meant to really make it available for rent at weekends. It might not get rented every weekend but a weekend here and there would totally eliminate any continuation of occupation by the person renting the 5 days of the week. Having evidence of the booking on Airbnb would make it very easy to prove all this also.

4ensic15

Kylee Millions Badminton wrote: »

Well I actually meant to really make it available for rent at weekends. It might not get rented every weekend but a weekend here and there would totally eliminate any continuation of occupation by the person renting the 5 days of the week. Having evidence of the booking on Airbnb would make it very easy to prove all this also.

It would also involve a very heavy burden on a landlord who does not want to have involvement in AirBnB on a full time basis. The dwelling would have to be cleaned to a professional standard before and after each letting. Availability is not enough. The RTB will look at how it works. the "guest" would have to pack up completely every weekend. It could easily slide into a letting under the RTB.

76544567

4ensic15 wrote: »

What are the chances that the landlord who wants a long term let is going to turn up with cleaners every Friday night and every Sunday night to ready the place for the next occupants? What are the chances the landlord gets a bit lazy and doesn't bother? What are the chances the tenant begins leaving this there? When the row happens it will be before a heavily biased tribunal.

Well with airbnb you don't actually want a long term let. And it seems to me that airbnb works very well in general for cleaning between lets. Cleani g is part of the cost when booking o airbnb. Airbnb i general, the same as a hotel, wouldn't work without cleaning between guests. That would be just disgusting. I have an agent to look after the cleaning, i won't be doing it.
Guests will pay for the cleaners on booking through airbnb.

<mod snip>

76544567

4ensic15 wrote: »

http://www.rtb.ie/archive/2008%20Disputes/TRIBUNALS%202008/DOTR154_07/Tribunal%20Report.pdf

Where a licence agreement is claimed, not only the written form of the licence but the reality of how it is operated (or its substance) must also be examined and the Tribunal is satisfied that the reality as operated on the ground in this given case points clearly to a licence agreement and not a lease agreement. It is relevant to note that the Appellant Tenants signed the said written agreement on 12 separate pages.
Although the said agreement between the parties dated 2 September 2013 was described as a licence and had many of the written hallmarks of a licence agreement, it does not necessarily follow that, merely on that account it is to be regarded as amounting to a licence agreement in law. Lord Denning M.R. in Shell Mex .v. Manchester Garages (1971) 1 WLR 612 held that whether the transaction is a licence or a tenancy does not
depend on the label which is put on it. It depends on the nature of the transaction itself. In this case which has been cited as a persuasive authority in numerous cases in this jurisdiction, the plaintiff owned a filling station in Manchester and allowed the defendant company go into occupation. In holding that the agreement constituted a licence, Denning
MR held, ‘Whether a transaction is a licence or a tenancy depends upon its substance and not upon the label or formal language. Broadly speaking, we have to see whether it is a personal privilege given to a person (in which case it is a licence), or whether it grants an interest in land (in which case it is a tenancy). At one time it used to be thought that exclusive possession was a decisive factor. But that is not so. It depends on broader considerations altogether. Primarily on whether it is personal in its nature or not.

Has absolutely nothing to do with my situation.
Why are you even posting it in reply to me.

You know just googling stuff and post it doesn't make you right. It definitely wears people out, but it is just posting for the sake of posting.

I am allowing a person to stay in my Property 5 nights a week should he wish to book it as often as he wants. There is no contract barvthe airbnb booking. And it is available others for the other 2 nights via that same web site. Should he attempt to book for more than weekdays the agent will just refuse the booking and tell him to book properly. Though i don't envisage that happening. He specifically only wants to come to Dublin for work for 5 nights a week. And this suits him and it suits me.

He cant book it anymore if it's sold or i take it off the booking websites. And if he doesn't feel like booking it anymore for whatever reason he can just stop.

76544567

4ensic15 wrote: »

It would also involve a very heavy burden on a landlord who does not want to have involvement in AirBnB on a full time basis. The dwelling would have to be cleaned to a professional standard before and after each letting. Availability is not enough. The RTB will look at how it works. the "guest" would have to pack up completely every weekend. It could easily slide into a letting under the RTB.

I don't think you understand how short term letting works at all.
Of course guests pack up and clear out after lets, and of course it will be cleaned between lets. How could it not work that way. That would be a fairly filthy way to take on guests for any establishment. Would you stay in one that did the clean after the person before you. And all agents now can take care of the day to day of airbnb, including cleaning , for which there is an up front charge on booking.

athtrasna

Mod note

76544567 and 4ensic15 please take your argument to pm. It is now dominating this thread in recent days which discourages other posters from posting. Thanks

76544567

windmilllane wrote: »

Hi, I have my house advertised on airbnb but want to do minimum stay of 5 nights. I haven't had one query. Am I right in thinking airbnb is mainly just used for short stays. Tia

Don't have a minimum stay.
Why not just give a discount for longer stays to encourage longer stays?
Then you get the best of both, but aren't eliminating people with stays of less than 5 days from booking.
There are other services like airbnb too, maybe mix and match them.

Baby01032012

There has been a lot of mention of apartments and using airbnb instead of normal tenancy agreement. I'll have an apartment becoming available in June beside st Patrick's cathedral. The only thing stopping me using Airbnb is that's it's DCC and should probably have planning permission as the stays will be commercial rather than residential. I'm not sure I want to be the one to test DCC with their view last year on that apartment in temple Bar.

Baby01032012

76544567 wrote: »

Don't have a minimum stay.
Why not just give a discount for longer stays to encourage longer stays?
Then you get the best of both, but aren't eliminating people with stays of less than 5 days from booking.
There are other services like airbnb too, maybe mix and match them.

Where is it location wise? Can you reduce it to 3 or 4. The thing is that majority of airbnb users are here for a weekend and he want to stay 2 or 3 nights maximum.

76544567

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Where is it location wise? Can you reduce it to 3 or 4. The thing is that majority of airbnb users are here for a weekend and he want to stay 2 or 3 nights maximum.

Sorry, ideas just replying to windmill lane with that post

Baby01032012

76544567 wrote: »

Sorry, ideas just replying to windmill lane with that post

Thanks 76544567 I replied to the wrong post. And thanks for the other info.

athtrasna

Baby01032012 wrote: »

There has been a lot of mention of apartments and using airbnb instead of normal tenancy agreement. I'll have an apartment becoming available in June beside st Patrick's cathedral. The only thing stopping me using Airbnb is that's it's DCC and should probably have planning permission as the stays will be commercial rather than residential. I'm not sure I want to be the one to test DCC with their view last year on that apartment in temple Bar.

What about the legal documents you signed when you bought the apartment. Do they allow short term lets? The management company are much more likely to be your first and biggest obstacle

Baby01032012

athtrasna wrote: »

What about the legal documents you signed when you bought the apartment. Do they allow short term lets? The management company are much more likely to be your first and biggest obstacle

Very true. I looked at the house rules. But it's really the deeds which include the lease I need to look at. Many thanks.

Baby01032012

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Very true. I looked at the house rules. But it's really the deeds which include the lease I need to look at. Many thanks.

So in the original lease between the purchaser and developer/man co. It states that the dwelling to be used as s single private residence. So do I take that as no commercial activity such as airbnb would be allowed?

windmilllane

Our home is in a very popular tourist destination. Because my job means I'm free during summer (and not getting paid) we are thinking of doing Airbnb in our home. I would intend to have one bedroom available and locking the other bedrooms. We are considering buying a caravan/motor home and have short breaks when guests are here as I don't mind strangers in the house but would prefer not to be here at same time Has anyone done anything similar.

Tigger

windmilllane wrote: »

Our home is in a very popular tourist destination. Because my job means I'm free during summer (and not getting paid) we are thinking of doing Airbnb in our home. I would intend to have one bedroom available and locking the other bedrooms. We are considering buying a caravan/motor home and have short breaks when guests are here as I don't mind strangers in the house but would prefer not to be here at same time Has anyone done anything similar.

give ita shot

nuckeythompson

I haven't but the first thing I would check is how it would affect your insurance

Sleepy

I think you might be limiting yourself with only having one room available and locking the others - would it not make more sense to put everything of personal value into the one locked room and letting the property as a 2/3 bed?

windmilllane

Thanks for all the advice.

geecee

remember that one bed wetter could end up costing you as much money as you are making in AirBNB fees in a week!
Similar with damaged sofas, carpets etc
If its your home an you are house proud... then I would advise against AirBNB

76544567

I think you should do it.
You'll be fine.
Airbnb cover you for damage etc.
Only thing is you need someone to do the meeting and greeting.
Probably would help you keep the house spotless day to day too.

If it doesnt work out just stop.

Baby01032012

There's separate airbnb insurance you can get and separate thread on it. Normal house insurance won't cover.

liamo1979

Just post it already....


I live in Ireland,
the insurance that cover Airbnb is;
<snip>
Why is everyone so scared of posting?!

Baby01032012

liamo1979 wrote: »

Just post it already....


I live in Ireland,
the insurance that cover Airbnb is;
<snip>
Why is everyone so scared of posting?!

Because it's against the charter, recommendations by pm only.

windmilllane

Can someone please pm me recommendations for company to insure house rented out weekly. Thank you

gizmo81

In the last couple of years, anywhere i lived in Dublin, I have been surrounded by Air BnB's. Either in apartment blocks or a neighbouring house in a terrace of houses.

In the apartments I noted the apartments are let to young foreign women who in turn let them out on Air BnB building themselves mini empires.

I thought moving into a terrace house I'd escape this new nightmare for households but lo and behold, the noise of the wheely suitcase up and down the street every day.

The last group of men came home scuttered and spent time in the yard at 4-5am smoking, singing etc Until a neighbour shouted out the window.

I think Air BnB should be banned from residential neighbourhoods or buildings. It is antithetical to a peaceful home life.

Even if you had neighbours from hell they wouldn't be in 'party mode' everyday like the vast majority of Air BnB people from my experience are.

I have never stayed in an Air BnB. I believe it poses so many issues including security and the excuse to call the Garda. I'm sorry but our police force is overstretched as it is, why the hell should they have to police a problem Air BnB created?

What are your thoughts?