Choir singers step down after abuse from parishioner

livedadream

really sad to read this story this morning..

its not like they were riding on the alter were they.

the priest seems fine with it, just goes to show it only takes one.

honestly dont want this to turn into a gay bashing or catholic bashing thread so an open discussion without all the hate would be wonderful..

http://www.joe.ie/news/gay-couple-in-kildare-step-down-from-church-choir-over-abuse-from-parishioner/559531

fryup

dykes can't sing

(only kidding)

livedadream

fryup wrote: »

dykes can't sing

super helpful fryup.

*searches* nope still cant find your braincells mate sorry...

Speedwell

Seems to me that the choir singers could have a thing or two to say in return about the ways in which that busybody fell short of the glory of God, if you know what I mean.

seamus

While I do understand that one can easily separate the enjoyment of music from the meaning of it, there's some level of cognitive dissonance required to stand and sing for the ceremonies of an institution which officially hates you and considers you second-class.

I'm expecting there's more to this than some random idiot sending messages. It's probably a small town and the guy is considered a "pillar of the community", so nobody calls him out on his crap. Hence why the two women can't just ignore him and are seemingly reluctant to make a complaint to the Gardai.

rochey84

seamus wrote: »

While I do understand that one can easily separate the enjoyment of music from the meaning of it, there's some level of cognitive dissonance required to stand and sing for the ceremonies of an institution which officially hates you and considers you second-class.

I'm expecting there's more to this than some random idiot sending messages. It's probably a small town and the guy is considered a "pillar of the community", so nobody calls him out on his crap. Hence why the two women can't just ignore him and are seemingly reluctant to make a complaint to the Gardai.

The whole radio interview is online, I'm busy right now but will be listening to it later on. Until then I'm going to reserve judgement.

But if anyone wants to listen to it now:

http://kildaretoday.podomatic.com/entry/2016-09-08T07_44_43-07_00

Hope that link works!

The Backwards Man

The 'concerned parishioner' is a wee bit more than that is he not? Thought I read somewhere he's the editor of The Catholic Voice. Shame he hasn't the balls to admit he is who he is.

livedadream

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The 'concerned parishioner' is a wee bit more than that is he not? Thought I read somewhere he's the editor of The Catholic Voice. Shame he hasn't the balls to admit he is who he is.

seriously? i didnt see that but havnt read much more than the journal post on it, im waiting to get out of a meeting before i listen to the radio interview.

Your Face

The opposition to gay marriage is as effective as sticking your finger in the proverbial dyke.

Ten of Swords

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The 'concerned parishioner' is a wee bit more than that is he not? Thought I read somewhere he's the editor of The Catholic Voice. Shame he hasn't the balls to admit he is who he is.

This link has more detail including the guys justification for this

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2016/09/08/different-him-sheet/

Absolute idiot

steddyeddy

A lot of people who are overly critical of homosexuality turn out to be gay themselves.

livedadream

steddyeddy wrote: »

A lot of people who are overly critical of homosexuality turn out to be gay themselves.

any link to back that statement up there mate?

The Backwards Man

steddyeddy wrote: »

A lot of people who are overly critical of homosexuality turn out to be gay themselves.

Or arseholes.

You often find that people who have funny notions about one thing have funny notions about everything else as well.

steddyeddy

livedadream wrote: »

any link to back that statement up there mate?

Yes there are a few studies on the topic now. Here's a study which finds homophobia to be more pronounced in individuals with stronger tendencies towards same sex attractions. Link from ScienceDaily.

The study is the first to document the role that both parenting and sexual
orientation play in the formation of intense and visceral fear of homosexuals,
including self-reported homophobic attitudes, discriminatory bias, implicit
hostility towards gays, and endorsement of anti-gay policies. Conducted by a
team from the University of Rochester, the University of Essex, England, and the
University of California in Santa Barbara, the research will be published the
April issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.


"Individuals who identify as straight but in psychological tests show a
strong attraction to the same sex may be threatened by gays and lesbians because
homosexuals remind them of similar tendencies within themselves," explains Netta
Weinstein, a lecturer at the University of Essex and the study's lead
author.


"In many cases these are people who are at war with themselves and they are
turning this internal conflict outward," adds co-author Richard Ryan, professor
of psychology at the University of Rochester who helped direct the research.


The paper includes four separate experiments, conducted in the United States
and Germany, with each study involving an average of 160 college students. The
findings provide new empirical evidence to support the psychoanalytic theory
that the fear, anxiety, and aversion that some seemingly heterosexual people
hold toward gays and lesbians can grow out of their own repressed same-sex
desires, Ryan says. The results also support the more modern self-determination
theory, developed by Ryan and Edward Deci at the University of Rochester, which
links controlling parenting to poorer self-acceptance and difficulty valuing
oneself unconditionally.


The findings may help to explain the personal dynamics behind some bullying
and hate crimes directed at gays and lesbians, the authors argue. Media coverage
of gay-related hate crimes suggests that attackers often perceive some level of
threat from homosexuals. People in denial about their sexual orientation may
lash out because gay targets threaten and bring this internal conflict to the
forefront, the authors write.

beach_walker

seamus wrote: »

there's some level of cognitive dissonance required to stand and sing for the ceremonies of an institution which officially hates you

Ok I'm eagerly awaiting this one, you want to point out where this is said? Officially no less


Or are you, y'know talking bollocks?

livedadream

huge difference between this

steddyeddy wrote: »

A lot of people who are overly critical of homosexuality turn out to be gay themselves.

and this

steddyeddy wrote: »

Here's a study which finds homophobia to be more pronounced in individuals with stronger tendencies towards same sex attractions. Link from ScienceDaily.

eviltwin

beach_walker wrote: »

Ok I'm eagerly awaiting this one, you want to point out where this is said? Officially no less


Or are you, y'know talking bollocks?

Well he has a point. I'm not sure I could go to mass every week let alone be active in the church knowing they find my lifestyle abhorrent.

steddyeddy

livedadream wrote: »

huge difference between this

and this

Actually there's not a huge difference in implication.

Anyway I'll rephrase.

Homophobic feelings correlate positively with homosexuality according to this study.

beach_walker

eviltwin wrote: »

Well he has a point.

Nah, the Catholic Church doesn't have an official hate list.

testaccount123

Id say your man Murphy sucks some amount of cocks alright

eviltwin

beach_walker wrote: »

Nah, the Catholic Church doesn't have an official hate list.

It does have a massive issue with homosexuality. Some priests more vocal than others. Perhaps the priests in this parish are a bit more of the live and let live variety but it doesn't change the official line that two people of the same sex shouldn't be allowed marry etc.

livedadream

eviltwin wrote: »

It does have a massive issue with homosexuality. Some priests more vocal than others. Perhaps the priests in this parish are a bit more of the live and let live variety but it doesn't change the official line that two people of the same sex shouldn't be allowed marry etc.

but what has got to do with them singing...

eviltwin

livedadream wrote: »

but what has got to do with them singing...

Nothing but clearly someone has a problem with it.....

steddyeddy

livedadream wrote: »

but what has got to do with them singing...

Tell that to Murphy who seems to think it's very relevant.

livedadream

steddyeddy wrote: »

Tell that to Murphy who seems to think it's very relevant.

but whats his argument, the catholic church doesn't recognise gay marriage, fair enough each to their own.

all they are doing is singing at mass and having out some wafers (body of christ, *nods* mumble mumble).

i wasnt aware you had to be the perfect catholic to be involved in mass.

Atoms for Peace

What a petty little **** more, more concerned with BS rules and regulations than actually acting like a Christian.

gctest50

In fairness the facebook page makes him and the cronies look like the biggest sack of stale santorum :

https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1089083671127400&id=100000773325772

valoren

The guy is just a church wanker. He sounds like the kind of bully who latches onto positions of authority and actively seeks a reason to bully people. In this case two gay women getting married.

Observe

Jacinta, I hope you will now have the decency to resign from the church choir and as a eucharistic minister, following the events of last Wednesday [their wedding day].

Perhaps he ought to listen to his Pope and offer an apology for marginalising these two women.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-church-idUSKCN0ZC12E

ScumLord

beach_walker wrote: »

Ok I'm eagerly awaiting this one, you want to point out where this is said? Officially no less

As far as I can remember the bible hasn't got anything nice to say about the gays. They're all going to hell is the impression I get from most religions.

testaccount123

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

What a petty little **** more, more concerned with BS rules and regulations than actually acting like a Christian.

What does acting like a christian mean? Helping your local priest cover up buggering kids is it?

livedadream

ScumLord wrote: »

As far as I can remember the bible hasn't got anything nice to say about the gays. They're all going to hell is the impression I get from most religions.

to be fair, we're all going to hell. gay or straight or inbetween.

its the repenting that will save you (us)

gctest50

valoren wrote: »

........... the kind of bully who latches onto positions of authority and actively seeks a reason to bully people. .............

Psycho behaviour that - they get well dodgy when they don't get their own way

ScumLord

livedadream wrote: »

to be fair, we're all going to hell. gay or straight or inbetween.

its the repenting that will save you (us)

Oh right, so actively gay people can get into heaven?

livedadream

testaccount123 wrote: »

What does acting like a christian mean? Helping your local priest cover up buggering kids is it?

being accepting of others,
turning the other cheek (no gay pun intended but whayyhhey its there for the taking)
doing onto others
knowing loving and serving god
love your neighbour

Water John

That clown of a councillor in Castlebar against an Educate Together School, cut from the same block as Murphy.
One fool holding sway in their communities.

livedadream

ScumLord wrote: »

Oh right, so actively gay people can get into heaven?

from my understanding its the act of being gay the church disagrees with (the dirty filthy sex we all love). not that thoughts.

if you stop and repent i think they put you on the list...

*(from what i remember from school etc)

same as being straight you wont just get in, you have to essentially not have sex with anyone but the person you marry.

ScumLord

livedadream wrote: »

being accepting of others,
turning the other cheek (no gay pun intended but whayyhhey its there for the taking)
doing onto others
knowing loving and serving god
love your neighbour

But believing in god and groveling before him trumps all those things. He'll even forgive murdering someone as long as you grovel correctly..

CdeC

I love stories like this.

Kicking people out of church that promotes love and acceptance of your fellow person.....just goes to show what a contradicting, sh*t show of an organization the catholic church is.

It'll hasten the dissolution of the church in Ireland.
Until it modernizes and becomes something that people can get behind.
I would love to see a modern church that serves the community and brings about positive change in our society.
Woman priests, gays allowed, marriage etc.

I don't believe in God but I see the value in community religion and spirituality.

eviltwin

livedadream wrote: »

from my understanding its the act of being gay the church disagrees with (the dirty filthy sex we all love). not that thoughts.

if you stop and repent i think they put you on the list...

*(from what i remember from school etc)

same as being straight you wont just get in, you have to essentially not have sex with anyone but the person you marry.

That's the part a lot of people have a problem with. Why should two people who love each other and are doing no harm to anyone need to repent at all? Its insulting.

ScumLord

livedadream wrote: »

from my understanding its the act of being gay the church disagrees with (the dirty filthy sex we all love). not that thoughts.

if you stop and repent i think they put you on the list...

*(from what i remember from school etc)

same as being straight you wont just get in, you have to essentially not have sex with anyone but the person you marry.

So now that we have gay marriage they can get into heaven now?

Being gay isn't an act, no more than being straight is an act. It's a part of them as much as needing to go for a shyte is a part of all of us. For god to put that in them and then tell them it's wrong, and set everyone else against them is the height of cruelty. Because god obviously didn't make a mistake.

ibFoxer

ScumLord wrote: »

As far as I can remember the bible hasn't got anything nice to say about the gays. They're all going to hell is the impression I get from most religions.

You're correct, far as i can remember the Bible hasn't too much niceness to say bout women either, perhaps Mr.Murphy in Kildare would like them removed from the Church too :rolleyes:

livedadream

eviltwin wrote: »

That's the part a lot of people have a problem with. Why should two people who love each other and are doing no harm to anyone need to repent at all? Its insulting.

i think everyone has to repent though,

isnt the idea we all sin just by existing?
im not sure but isnt there a line in some prayer about ''in my thoughts'' ?

lads i dont get it either, i think its wrong. but im just putting the other side of the argument out there,

im straight, but according to what i was taught growing up sin everyday, im greedy, i get angry, i am spiteful sometimes the usual being human stuff, from what i remember everyone gets in if you repent.

even the murderers

livedadream

ScumLord wrote: »

So now that we have gay marriage they can get into heaven now?

Being gay isn't an act, no more than being straight is an act. It's a part of them as much as needing to go for a shyte is a part of all of us. For god to put that in them and then tell them it's wrong, and set everyone else against them is the height of cruelty. Because god obviously didn't make a mistake.

sex is an act. thats what i was referring to, stop trying to twist my post.

man shall not lie with man the way he lies with women (or something along those lines)

what id say Mister Murphy is does he eat shellfish? thats a sin,

eviltwin

livedadream wrote: »

i think everyone has to repent though,

isnt the idea we all sin just by existing?
im not sure but isnt there a line in some prayer about ''in my thoughts'' ?

lads i dont get it either, i think its wrong. but im just putting the other side of the argument out there,

im straight, but according to what i was taught growing up sin everyday, im greedy, i get angry, i am spiteful sometimes the usual being human stuff, from what i remember everyone gets in if you repent.

even the murderers

That's the bit I have a problem with. Repenting means saying sorry. What have these women got to be sorry for. And seeing as how they aren't going to change isn't repentance just an empty gesture?

ScumLord

livedadream wrote: »

sex is an act. thats what i was referring to, stop trying to twist my post.

You say "the act of being gay". Maybe you meant something different but I can only go on what you wrote.

man shall not lie with man the way he lies with women (or something along those lines)

what id say Mister Murphy is does he eat shellfish? thats a sin,

Even god saying the act of sex is a sin is an attack on humanity. He makes it illegal for us to reproduce and keep our species going without his approval.

If god made us in his image, then he must be a little bit gay. Maybe gay people are he's own homosexuality breaking out. I guess it does line up with his narcissism. He not only loves himself but is also sexually attracted to himself.

Speedwell

livedadream wrote: »

isnt the idea we all sin just by existing?

That's actually the single most horrible thing I've ever heard in half a lifetime of being a Christian and a quarter more of a lifetime being an atheist. I know for a fact you didn't mean it a thousandth part as horrible as it actually is. I know that it's just another way of trying to say what I referred to earlier, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), but it really brings it home that our birth brought something into being that was literally disgusting and anathema to God before we could possibly have done anything to deserve His wrath. And the implications of that are staggering.

ScumLord

Speedwell wrote: »

And the implications of that are staggering.

Indeed, god would make a horrible person.

padd b1975

eviltwin wrote: »

Well he has a point. I'm not sure I could go to mass every week let alone be active in the church knowing they find my lifestyle abhorrent.

Trumped up 'homophobia".

conorhal

testaccount123 wrote: »

What does acting like a christian mean? Helping your local priest cover up buggering kids is it?

Yes, yes it does, about as much as being an atheist requires you to be a snide horrible condescending individual constantly spewing hyperbole....

brickmauser

Why the surprise?

If you are a member of the Nazi Party and you are dating a Jewish girl or if you were a member of the Communist Party and you owned a small business what do you think would happen?

What next? Pork eating bikini wearing Muslims?

PARlance

brickmauser wrote: »

If you are a member of the Nazi Party and you are dating a Jewish girl

It would probably rule out sexy shower time.

brickmauser wrote: »

or if you were a member of the Communist Party and you owned a small business what do you think would happen?

If you're paying by monthly subscription then it's probably best to cancel the direct debit.