Tampons for men's bathrooms at Brown University, USA

mzungu

wakka12 wrote: »

A tad ridiculous I must admit. But if it makes a number of pre op trans men feel better in male bathrooms then sure what harm. its not really having the biggest impact on us is it, an extra row on the condomn and gum machine

The tampons in the bathroom is fine, but the whole idea of unisex toilets is stretching things a bit far.

Special Circumstances

L1011 wrote: »

Only if I can give him some lectures on reality first. And he's my type.

Otherwise you'd just shame him for being a Virgin and frigid?

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

But why though?
I mean, what difference does it make? Not much to the queues of women I see in clubs going into the men's jacks!
Why would it matter?
We all pee, we all poop!

How it works at the moment is fine, dont fix what isn't broke.

Frigating

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see unisex loos in work. Can't imagine the horror of having some fella doing a big long poo in the cubicle beside me.

I'm sure he'd hate if you were doing a big long poo beside him as well.

Just give me a reasonably clean toilet with walls and a door around it so no one can see me do what I do, and I'm happy. I couldn't give a **** (pun intended) if the other people in the room have peniss (penii?) or vaginas or neither or both or reproduce via budding or laying eggs. You only see them* when you're entering or washing your hands. Once the place is clean who cares?

*The people I mean, not their genitals. Unless you're both into it

Frigating

Frigating wrote: »

I'm sure he'd hate if you were doing a big long poo beside him as well.

Just give me a reasonably clean toilet with walls and a door around it so no one can see me do what I do, and I'm happy. I couldn't give a **** (pun intended) if the other people in the room have peniss (penii?) or vaginas or neither or both or reproduce via budding or laying eggs. You only see them* when you're entering or washing your hands. Once the place is clean who cares?

*The people I mean, not their genitals. Unless you're both into it

If you dont care either way then why complain about how it is at the moment?

Tin Roofer

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I wouldn't like to see unisex loos in work. Can't imagine the horror of having some fella doing a big long poo in the cubicle beside me.

In a smaller place I would always rather see a dedicated ladies rather than a shared loo as well.

Change is bad, bad I tell you.

Women don't lay long cables?

Special Circumstances

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How it works at the moment is fine, dont fix what isn't broke.

It would seem a bit pointless really. Small places that can't remodel to have 1 unisex area rather than 2 bathrooms - would they just continue with something as tokenism as "unisex (with urinals)" and "unisex (no urinal)" signage.

It also seems to push the people who need a disabled toilet further away. What would newer places have? 2 bathrooms - "pretty much everybody" and "disabled"?

Either way, anywhere except a music festival, if I have to queue 10 minutes to use a urinal or there are no urinals... that business is not getting my money again. Unless I was menstruating obviously.

Teyla Emmagan

Tin Roofer wrote:

Women don't lay long cables?

Well you certainly never see a woman heading to the loo with The Sun stuck under her arm.

Teyla Emmagan

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Well you certainly never see a woman heading to the loo with The Sun stuck under her arm.

LOL
Bet there's plenty with their phones though....

The Wolverine

[Deleted User] wrote: »

why all of a sudden in the past year has this toilet sh!te become such a big issue?

Because they have run out of actual problems to spend their time whinging and "campaigning" for and are now scratching the bottom of the barrel to find something to do other than real work or causes.

mzungu

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Well you certainly never see a woman heading to the loo with The Sun stuck under her arm.

Never saw a bloke either.

Not saying it has never happened but I thought the newspaper in the jacks was a movie cliche.

L1011

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Otherwise you'd just shame him for being a Virgin and frigid?

Nothing wrong with being a virgin. Rather a lot wrong with perpetuating bull**** while pretending not to be - and there is no way anyone who had ever had sex would have such a ****ed up belief about it let alone go pretending it was real.

Also, if they think that bottoming = need a tampon, their knowledge is severely lacking and attitude to sex coloured from the offset.

Teyla Emmagan

bubblypop wrote:

LOL Bet there's plenty with their phones though....

I honestly think women poo faster.

I will do some research into this area and get back to you.

Tin Roofer

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Well you certainly never see a woman heading to the loo with The Sun stuck under her arm.

Not since they stopped page 3 girls anyway.

DeadHand

Hint: If you are menstruating you are not a man.

Skullface McGubbin

DeadHand wrote: »

Hint: If you are menstruating you are not a man.

Exactly.
The people of "Generation Snowflake" don't seem to fully understand this. You have to wonder what produced these kind of idiots in the first place and why their whims are being pandered to instead of being laughed at and told to fuck off.

DeadHand

Skullface McGubbin wrote: »

Exactly.
The people of "Generation Snowflake" don't seem to fully understand this. You have to wonder what produced these kind of idiots in the first place and why their whims are being pandered to instead of being laughed at and told to fuck off.

If they were just isolated fools they could be safely laughed off.

Sadly, it isn't that simple: this nonsense has growing political clout behind it- the trans myth being one of the most sacred of PC causes.

Where it is all heading is, for one example, infant girls being forced to share toilets and changing rooms with mentally ill, grown men who have decided they are women.

Call me what you will- I'm not comfortable with that, never will be and I doubt most sane people are.

Western countries need to stop indulging this pantomime.

gctest50

DeadHand wrote: »

Hint: If you are menstruating you are not a man.

Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome

Annasopra

L1011 wrote: »

Tampons don't adsorb anything else*; and anyway - nothing else comes out either

Scared, lying virgin. Time to get him laid.

*unless he has a magic, water producing arse

No I think her friend reportedly used a tampon as a dildo replacement. Ya know like all gay guys do. It's not a made up story at all. Harhar.

Wibbs

gctest50 wrote: »

Persistent Müllerian duct syndrome

Riiight. So a vanishingly rare genetic defect/condition changes the realities for the vast majority of people? I call shenanigans.

Skullface McGubbin wrote:

You have to wonder what produced these kind of idiots in the first place and why their whims are being pandered to instead of being laughed at and told to **** off.

Some sections of Western society have increasingly become focused on the self(and the self involved), rather than the wider society as a group. Hence in certain environments we have the pandering to tiny numbers of special interest groups. Special interest groups who shout the loudest anyway, or more likely those who shout the loudest on their behalf. I wonder have any of these yahoos actually polled the few transexuals on their campus about this? Universities are fertile ground for such thinking. Mostly middle class late adolescents mixed with ivory tower academics tends to produce excessive navel gazing and hand wringing as a default. So in such an environment society is asked to bend to the needs of a tiny minority of people rather than the other way around.

Maguined

super_furry wrote: »

I would have thought that the hormones that transgender men take would mean that they don't menstruate. Could be very wrong though.

No big deal either way really. Lets be honest, they'll all be taken by lads who end up sticking them of the backs of their mates.

I think the issue for some people is that hormone replacement therapy is expensive so there can be a stage where they identify as a man and may present as a man but as they have not begun HRT they still have all the horomones of a woman so would need tampons. If they are presenting as a man they would not want to enter the womens toilets to get tampons.

I personally would not want unisex toilets for selfish reasons of long queues if they did not include urinals.

Pawwed Rig

Maguined wrote: »

I personally would not want unisex toilets for selfish reasons of long queues if they did not include urinals.

No reason why you would get rid of urinals.

Maguined

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

No reason why you would get rid of urinals.

I have been to some places with unisex bathrooms that are just stalls and no urinals. These have mostly been smaller restaurants so it was not too much of an issue as there might be only 3 or 4 stalls and each has their own sink inside so they are pretty much self enclosed but if the same was applied to larger buildings with larger numbers of customers I do think it would create long queues.

Pawwed Rig

I don't think that would happen as it would be bad for business. I have no idea why women accept a situation where they queue for toilets. If I had a lengthy queue I wouldn't go to that place again.

Men tend to find another way if queues are too long.

Maguined

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I don't think that would happen as it would be bad for business. I have no idea why women accept a situation where they queue for toilets. If I had a lengthy queue I wouldn't go to that place again.

Men tend to find another way if queues are too long.

Venues have only a certain amount of space so if they expand the womens toilets to reduce queues you have to reduce the size of something else. For clubs that is reducing the floor space and reducing the numbers of customers you can let into the venue and make sales from.

Yeah though I really don't want to see an increase in blokes pissing in the streets, I think it is nasty enough how common it is so increasing the odds of it happeneing would be a bad move.

Sleepy

I've definitely seen a tampon machine in the toilets in a rugby club before but I suspect it was for men with broken noses rather than "men who menstruate"...

Disgruntled Badger

'Not all people who menstruate are women'

Sorry I'm still confused. Can someone explain?

cowboyBuilder

eviltwin wrote: »

Are they not cleaned the same way as the women's loos are? Maybe the issue is the urinal, its more open so possibly more smelly.
....

No no it's not that, it's that where Men are hampered with urine and faeces as waste, women are lucky that they piss cream and ****e strawberries. :P

Annasopra

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

'Not all people who menstruate are women'

Sorry I'm still confused. Can someone explain?

Male to female trans men can have periods

orubiru

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Male to female trans men can have periods

Is Pluto a planet?

It seems that we have an issue with terminology. It seems we have a bigger issue with people who are determined to use terminology incorrectly.

Male to female trans-men can have periods because male to female trans-men are women.

The poster that you are responding to is correct. Men cannot menstruate. Trans-men can menstruate. Trans-men can menstruate because trans-men are women.

The only way you can disagree with this is if you insist on using words incorrectly.

Trans-men are not men, they are women. Trans-women are not women, they are men. OK, now maybe you could bully me into silence or force me to meekly admit that these statements are not true. Actually though you would just be forcing me to lie. For what reason? I do not know.

If you think that men can have periods then you are wrong. You can come up with a nice way to twist the language and you can bully people into accepting that but I don't see how it really benefits anyone?

In real life, of course, I would not get up in someone's face insisting that they are not a "real" woman or not a "real" man. I would leave them be and let them get on with their life in peace. I will not even argue this one back and forth.

Facts are facts. There are 2 genders and we are all one or the other. Why does some people's desire to be treated like special, beautiful, one off, snowflakes require us to pretend that facts are not facts but merely abstract concepts?

It is possible to determine the gender of a foetus at 7 weeks by testing the blood of the mother.

It is clear, then, that our gender is determined before we even have brain activity. You are one or you are the other (thought presumably there are a small number of rare cases when this is not completely true).

Therefore a trans-man is not a man. A trans-man is a woman.

The phrase 'not all people who menstruate are women' is incorrect.

Tigger

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Male to female trans men can have periods

Is a male to female trans man not a person born without a womb
Female to male trans people might menstruate but male to female won't

Tbh id have thought that if you were identifying as a man to the point where you were using the male toilets then you would not buy your menstruation products in a men's toilets as that is not male behaviour .

DeadHand

orubiru wrote: »

OK, now maybe you could bully me into silence or force me to meekly admit that these statements are not true. Actually though you would just be forcing me to lie. For what reason? I do not know.

If you think that men can have periods then you are wrong. You can come up with a nice way to twist the language and you can bully people into accepting that but I don't see how it really benefits anyone?

This is the crux of the argument. If it was all just live and let live all would be well but a lot of bullying is going on around this issue. There is a growing and increasingly militant element within the LGBT movement that will attempt to demonise anyone ("ignorant", "bigot", "transphobic") who will not accept their delusions.

They were out in force attacking people for thought crime during the gay marriage referendum and are appearing again on the trans issue to basically force people to abandon reason.

A nasty, intolerant element.

Annasopra

Tigger wrote: »

Is a male to female trans man not a person born without a womb
Female to male trans people might menstruate but male to female won't

Tbh id have thought that if you were identifying as a man to the point where you were using the male toilets then you would not buy your menstruation products in a men's toilets as that is not male behaviour .

Oops my mistake female to male trans men. Thats what we are talking about.

Pawwed Rig

You are talking about a miniscule subset of people here

RDM_83 again

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You are talking about a miniscule subset of people here

For a small amount of the time a month!Did any passing trans-man raise this as an issue?

Its admitted its a tokenistic gesture but how much will this token gesture cost? like presumably its going to raise the bill from whatever company they use considerably, I mean you can't really give out tampons in the mens without having those hygienic bins and having a regular pickup schedule right?

Wibbs

Answer them better to drop the costs of sanitary products for the millions of y'know women who use them monthly. But that would cost the big bucks and wouldn't be nearly as "Right On(™)", or get nearly as many column inches.

Penn

It's a token gesture plain and simple and the vast, vast majority of tampons that will be taken from those dispensers will not be used by trans men, they'll be used for pranks and other stupid sh*t.

I highly doubt any female-to-male trans person has ever walked into a men's bathroom and thought "No tampons? How inconsiderate! Now where am I supposed to get one?"

Olishi4

Does anyone know if it is a requirement by law that tampon vending machines are provided in all womens public toilets or just considered good practice?

I'm fairly sure there are some that don't provide them in women's toilets or maybe I just didn't notice them.

Maguined

Wibbs wrote: »

Answer them better to drop the costs of sanitary products for the millions of y'know women who use them monthly. But that would cost the big bucks and wouldn't be nearly as "Right On(™)", or get nearly as many column inches.

You are late and wrong on that one Wibbs, there has already been a few who want them to be free.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/11/free-tampons-cost-feminine-hygiene-products

It is the usual though of not suggesting what part of the budget should be slashed so the taxpayer for can for free tampons for everyone including the vast majority of women who can afford them themselves.

Pawwed Rig

There are alot of things you could argue should be free - toilet paper, nappies, water, bread, milk. If you do one you would need to do all. Would have no issue with vouchers for tampons provided to welfare recipients if needed.

Wibbs

+1. tax relief/cost reduction =/= free.

LostinBlanch

DeadHand wrote: »

This is the crux of the argument. If it was all just live and let live all would be well but a lot of bullying is going on around this issue. There is a growing and increasingly militant element within the LGBT movement that will attempt to demonise anyone ("ignorant", "bigot", "transphobic") who will not accept their delusions.

They were out in force attacking people for thought crime during the gay marriage referendum and are appearing again on the trans issue to basically force people to abandon reason.

A nasty, intolerant element.

Unfortunately this is true. As someone who supported the campaign I found the bullying and utter demonisation of anyone who didn't buy fully and enthusiastically in it off putting. Others I spoke to did as well. Look at all the sh*t the people of Roscommon got for being the only constituency that voted against it. It's a democracy and not everyone is going to agree with you, accept your victory graciously and move on.

mzungu

LostinBlanch wrote: »

Unfortunately this is true. As someone who supported the campaign I found the bullying and utter demonisation of anyone who didn't buy fully and enthusiastically in it off putting. Others I spoke to did as well. Look at all the sh*t the people of Roscommon got for being the only constituency that voted against it. It's a democracy and not everyone is going to agree with you, accept your victory graciously and move on.

Yeah, a lot of these movements are being hijacked by a totalitarian element. You have them in a big way now on the Repeal movement. It is not enough that one is in favour of repealing the 8th, you have to want to do it for the reasons they want. Take this article by Donal Lynch for example: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/why-my-fellow-repealers-cant-face-the-facts-around-abortion-35039115.html

The man speaks out in favour of repealing the 8th on Claire Byrne Live, but has the sheer audacity to have his own reasons for doing so, and not follow the mantra. He got abused on Twitter for not wanting to repeal for the right reasons. I think he has a good point in the article, if the Repealers are going with the strategy of ostracising everybody who does not agree with them, they will be outmanoeuvred quite easily by the pro life campaign. From what it seems, they are doing a decent job of alienating people who agree with them, so they will most likely loose those who are on the fence about the issue.

Might have strayed off topic, but the point remains. It is mostly an extremist subset of the 'tolerance' brigade that are heading up these issues.

DeadHand

Facism is coming from the Left.

A lot of the intolerant "liberals" of this generation would have been seeking the destruction of anyone who did not conform to Catholic dogma had they existed in previous generations. Abuse, demonisation, bullying and exclusion are still the currencies.

The direction of the herd has reversed but it's still a herd.

Elliott S

Olishi4 wrote: »

Does anyone know if it is a requirement by law that tampon vending machines are provided in all womens public toilets or just considered good practice?

I'm fairly sure there are some that don't provide them in women's toilets or maybe I just didn't notice them.

They're definitely not available in all ladies loos. It's no big deal. I'm 32 and on only one occasion can I even remember trying to get a tampon out of one of those machines.

Olishi4

Elliott S wrote: »

They're definitely not available in all ladies loos. It's no big deal. I'm 32 and on only one occasion can I even remember trying to get a tampon out of one of those machines.

Ye I'm 32 and the same. Also I've never been with someone who bought them in my presence and I don't recall ever seeing or noticing anyone standing at one to buy from. The machines in some places look like they've never been serviced or restocked. So you couldnt really rely on them anyway unless you were in a place that you know had them and always stock them.

If the trans community were calling for this as a standard in mens toilets, then they'd probably have be backing a need for them to be required by law in ALL women's and men's public toilets otherwise what they would be asking for would translate as "we need tampons in the men's because they are a necessity, but only a necessity in the mens toilet when they are already provided in the women's"!

I suppose this is different because it's talking about a college campus. I don't know, from a few of the points made in here like that we are not talking about a lot of people and will they even use them or is this something the transgender community even want?, and in the ops article, it is admitted that it is more of a gesture, it just seems like using it to make some sort of shock tactic point to raise awareness which I think could devalue the point itself.

orubiru

orubiru wrote:

Trans-men are not men, they are women. Trans-women are not women, they are men. OK, now maybe you could bully me into silence or force me to meekly admit that these statements are not true. Actually though you would just be forcing me to lie. For what reason? I do not know.

So it is bullying to tell you that you are wrong? Pathetic

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

So it is bullying to tell you that you are wrong? Pathetic

How are they wrong and how is this pathetic? However someone identifies is another matter, but outside of some vanishingly rare genetic conditions, technically and biologically the statement they made is indeed correct.

woodchuck

There is a simple solution to all of this... unisex bathrooms!!! It's going to happen sooner or later, so can we just skip all the debating and just get to that point already please :rolleyes: Where's my time machine...

eviltwin

Olishi4 wrote: »

Does anyone know if it is a requirement by law that tampon vending machines are provided in all womens public toilets or just considered good practice?

I'm fairly sure there are some that don't provide them in women's toilets or maybe I just didn't notice them.

It's not compulsory, venues provide them because they make money from it.