UPC Cut off Analogue in Germany & Austria - Ireland Next?

Szero

- Liberty Media via Unitymedia are cutting off analogue TV on 30 June 2017. More here.
- Liberty Media via UPC Cablecom completed analogue switch-off in July 2015.
- Liberty Media via UPC Austria will complete analogue switch off in early 2017.

Surely, a matter of time till Liberty Media / Virgin Media announce analogue switch off here?

Royale with Cheese

Picking up a few tv channels is the main reason I still have my broadband with them. Eircom have FTTH in my area so will be off to that if the analogue TV service is cut off.

mrwish

The most sensible thing to do with it would surely be to replace the analogue channels with the two Saorview muxes carried in DVB-T over cable, so a Saorview capable TV could tune them in. They could even add an extra mux carrying a few of the main UK channels. This would still let them reuse most of the capacity taken up by the analogue currently. They could keep the access charge just like now.

The cable operator in France does this, as a lot of apartment blocks have cable fed to each apartment instead of an aerial feed.

The Cush

mrwish wrote: »

The cable operator in France does this, as a lot of apartment blocks have cable fed to each apartment instead of an aerial feed.

A few years ago, VM's sister cable networks in Holland and Switzerland started offering a package of approx. 30 channels in unencrypted DVB-C to encourage subscribers away from analogue and who could use their own DVB-C equipment to view the channels. Unlikely they'll do the same here using DVB-C or DVB-T as the analogue subscriber base is so low and reducing, excluding of course those digital tv and broadband only subscribers who view the analogue channels on additional TVs for no additional fee.

bk

The Cush wrote: »

Unlikely they'll do the same here using DVB-C or DVB-T as the analogue subscriber base is so low and reducing, excluding of course those digital tv and broadband only subscribers who view the analogue channels on additional TVs for no additional fee.

I suspect a great majority of their digital TV and broadband customers use the analogue TV service as a "free" multi-room option. I would think that Virgin would be very foolish not to consider these customers. I suspect that if they turned off the analogue service with no alternative (free un-encrypted DVB-C or DVB-T channels) they could end up losing an awful lot of these customers to Sky/Eir/Vodafone/Freesat.

7upfree

bk wrote: »

I suspect a great majority of their digital TV and broadband customers use the analogue TV service as a "free" multi-room option. I would think that Virgin would be very foolish not to consider these customers. I suspect that if they turned off the analogue service with no alternative (free un-encrypted DVB-C or DVB-T channels) they could end up losing an awful lot of these customers to Sky/Eir/Vodafone/Freesat.

Very valid points. And what everyone is missing is that they divide up digital/analogue numbers. When many digital homes ALSO use the analogue channels. So it isn't as cut and dried as it seems.

lertsnim

Just unencrypt the analogue channels on the DVB-C network. Most tv's these days have the tuner needed to tune them in without a set top box. Problem solved.

L1011

They'd also need to make the channel frequencies public as they are somewhat off the norm - my main TV, set to show any mux even if fully crypted (it has a CI slot) picks up one of them on its "blind" scan.

StreetLight

lertsnim wrote: »

Just unencrypt the analogue channels on the DVB-C network. Most tv's these days have the tuner needed to tune them in without a set top box. Problem solved.

Would it be possible for them transmit in the DVB-T format instead? It could then be seamlessly combined with a Saorview feed without having to change the mode on the TV from one format to another.

L1011

Far less efficient use of bandwidth due to being designed for terrestrial reception (worse modulation options available) but it is possible and is done on the independent cable operator in Longford.

Vic_08

L1011 wrote: »

Far less efficient use of bandwidth due to being designed for terrestrial reception (worse modulation options available) but it is possible and is done on the independent cable operator in Longford.

It would be 2 or 3 mux at the most even in DVB-T, still a huge net gain in bandwith for them over 16 analogue channels.

I don't know what the use of them is in the other countries listed but particularly in the former cablelink-ntl areas there is still a huge number of households using the analogue as primary viewing for 2-3-4 extra locations.

Their internal accounting method may ignore this as if it does not exist but it does and although not a selling point for new customers it would be a very strong holder for existing ones.

The timing is poor with the alternatives now available; a good freesat lineup to ditch subscription tv or Sky Q giving a wireless alternative for high quality multi-room pay tv.

Bodan

They really should descramble all the free to view satellite channels and use it as a major selling point. The quality of the analogue channels are too poor in comparison. And it would be a major net gain in bandwidth.

Vic_08

Bodan wrote: »

They really should descramble all the free to view satellite channels and use it as a major selling point. The quality of the analogue channels are too poor in comparison. And it would be a major net gain in bandwidth.

I'm sure they are chomping at the bit to ditch analogue and unencrypted.

Being able to control all subs remotely through CA and not rely on physical disconnections would be a big cost saving as well as cut down on a lot of theft, illegal hookups were always a thing and no doubt are still in certain areas.

The Cush

Bodan wrote: »

They really should descramble all the free to view satellite channels and use it as a major selling point.

And lose all those potential multiroom subscriptions, whatever chance there is of unencrypted Saorview channels can't see it for anything else.

Bodan

The Cush wrote: »

And lose all those potential multiroom subscriptions, whatever chance there is of unencrypted Saorview channels can't see it for anything else.

Most Tv's dont have the ability to pause rewind or record live tv and they all are unable to access the on demand features. I dont think both are comparable.

Those paying for the features of a multi room box wont suddenly downgrade just to save a few quid and a reduced tv experience.

The Cush

Bodan wrote: »

Those paying for the features of a multi room box wont suddenly downgrade just to save a few quid and a reduced tv experience.

Back in analogue days there was an extra monthly charge for each TV point if installed by Cablelink etc., no charge if you did it yourself. Digital returns control to the cable provider and they'll charge accordingly.

bk

The Cush wrote: »

Back in analogue days there was an extra monthly charge for each TV point if installed by Cablelink etc., no charge if you did it yourself. Digital returns control to the cable provider and they'll charge accordingly.

And yet they didn't in their other European markets, in fact they decrypted 80+ channels and over 25 of them in HD!

They know perfectly well that they can't get away with charging for basic, ad-supported TV that people can already get for free on freesat.

You have to remember, they make far more money from broadband today, then they ever did from basic TV. They will be very careful about doing anything that makes their broadband product less attractive and might have people leave for Eir/Sky/Vodafone broadband and their TV services.

Today they are more of a broadband provider then a TV provider.

I suspect that increasingly, ad-supported, free to air TV will become largely "free" if you sign up for broadband or more advanced digital TV services. Sure charge for premium channels, PVR, ondemand, etc. But the days of charging lots for basic channels is quickly slipping away.

Johnboy1951

I am unsure why anyone would pay a subscription to receive FTA channels when a one off set up for DVB-T & DVB-S would provide all the FTA channels that are available in as many rooms and on as many devices as one wished, and never be dependent on the broadband supplier.

Vic_08

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am unsure why anyone would pay a subscription to receive FTA channels when a one off set up for DVB-T & DVB-S would provide all the FTA channels that are available in as many rooms and on as many devices as one wished, and never be dependent on the broadband supplier.

Apartment dwellers often do not have that option, if a cable tv hookup is all that is provided then their choice will be very limited, an indoor aerial that might pick-up 4 crap Irish channels may be their only alternative.

People in houses may also not want to put up a sat dish for various reasons.

As the topic is VM analogue, the service includes some subscription channels as well.

L1011

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I am unsure why anyone would pay a subscription to receive FTA channels when a one off set up for DVB-T & DVB-S would provide all the FTA channels that are available in as many rooms and on as many devices as one wished, and never be dependent on the broadband supplier.

Dwelling may be fully wired with cable points; or a distribution system that can't take the 2Ghz that's required for even single satellite IF + UHF spectrum. Can record multiple channels off a single cable feed rather than one + whatever else is in that polarity + half of the spectrum.

More than one reason, anyway.

rogue-entity

I had heard it before that parts of the Irish network already had analogue turned off, they really should, they may then be able add some more content to their miserable TV selection, particularly HD.

L1011

rogue-entity wrote: »

I had heard it before that parts of the Irish network already had analogue turned off, they really should, they may then be able add some more content to their miserable TV selection, particularly HD.

Cork has, bar the 4 former over the air analogue Irish channels. Cork's analogue was fully crypted otherwise. All crypted analogue has been turned off everywhere.

Johnboy1951

L1011 wrote: »

Dwelling may be fully wired with cable points; or a distribution system that can't take the 2Ghz that's required for even single satellite IF + UHF spectrum. Can record multiple channels off a single cable feed rather than one + whatever else is in that polarity + half of the spectrum.

More than one reason, anyway.

There are more ways that one to distribute TV to multiple rooms

.... but yes I can see there are situations such as living in an apartment which would prevent the use of a personal hardware (dish & aerial) set up.

STB.

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

There are more ways that one to distribute TV to multiple rooms

.... but yes I can see there are situations such as living in an apartment which would prevent the use of a personal hardware (dish & aerial) set up.

In most cases any well run apartment complex will have a communal dish system that allows the user to pick what they want, Sky, Freesat etc.

The problems I see raised here time and time again are for multiroom/recording as many apartment complexes were only wired for one sat output or a split UHF/sat feed.

Back on topic, though. There is no reason why the Saorview "stations" should be encrypted on DVB-C. It would be to Virgins benefit to offer such given most LCD's since 2009 have hybrid dvb-t/c tuners built in.

Vic_08

STB. wrote: »

In most cases any well run apartment complex will have a communal dish system that allows the user to pick what they want, Sky, Freesat etc.

The problems I see raised here time and time again are for multiroom/recording as many apartment complexes were only wired for one sat output or a split UHF/sat feed.

Back on topic, though. There is no reason why the Saorview "stations" should be encrypted on DVB-C. It would be to Virgins benefit to offer such given most LCD's since 2009 have hybrid dvb-t/c tuners built in.

TBH I think if VM cut off analogue and offer no free multi-room digital alternative or cut it off and offer only sourview channels free the response from customers who currently use analogue would be the same. Mine certainly will be, I can use an indoor aerial for the crappy Irish channels, it is the main UK channels that make the service still useful for rooms where I do not want the bother of wiring up a freesat and sourview connection.

mrwish

They could easily provide around the same amount of channels as on the analogue service, with a Saorview compatible HD service in the space of 3 analogue channels.

I was in Portugal a few weeks ago and the FTTH operators there show that VM's competitors in Ireland are missing a trick as well.

The fibre terminating box in the building there comes with an antenna out port, and the Meo version our hotel had carried 70 (!!) analogue cable channels in S Band and 8 DVB-T multiplexes (with the same channels but some in HD). That's alongside the 1Gbps internet and IPTV offer the companies have, specifically FTA and for use on second and third TVs. So basically you're getting a cable service over the brand new FTTH network that can just be plugged into a home coaxial distribution system to replace traditional cable.