Power Meter v Coach

DKmac

Simple Question...
Is there more value in investing in a Power Meter and following one of the many generic training plans out there or spending the equivalent over 6 months on a coach?

Inquitus

DKmac wrote: »

Simple Question...
Is there more value in investing in a Power Meter and following one of the many generic training plans out there or spending the equivalent over 6 months on a coach?

Hard one to answer, I do think a lot of the coaching services in Ireland now are victims of their own popularity and as volumes go up, the personal side of things goes down and the gap between bespoke coaching and generic plans begins to blur somewhat. if 6 months with a coach left you in a position where you now had the knowledge on how to train yourself effectively going forwards then it would defo be the best investment imo.

godtabh

Will a coach work with you without a PM? And by work I mean a more personal approach rather than a generic plan?

Lumen

Training for what?

Inquitus

godtabh wrote: »

Will a coach work with you without a PM? And by work I mean a more personal approach rather than a generic plan?

Perceived Effort or Heart Rate I would presume.

DKmac

Training for racing with a view to moving out of A4. Have done generic plans before with HR & PE. Would be looking at coach with HR & PE but with feedback on whether I'm approaching sessions correctly. I've also been advised that a Power Meter is more efficient than HR work.

lennymc

A pm is only as good as the person interpreting the data.

Raymzor

I think the power meter is very helpful since you are working with real numbers as opposed to perceived effort. You can measure your progress accurately. You can focus your training to improve 1/5/20 minute power. I have found this to be a big motivating factor. I agree with Lenny the power meter is useless unless you figure out what to do with the numbers! I I think the coaching process will be more straight forward once you have a PM! How much time per week do you have to train?

mossym

you don't need a pm to work with a good coach.

you don't need a coach to work with a pm if you understand what the numbers mean. most don't, even a big number of those with PM's (makes you wonder why they have them).

if you don't understand the numbers and theory behind it now, then a good coach now is a better purchase. if you do, then a PM and something like the training with power book would work.

i'd also ask if you had a coach in mind. finding a good coach that can take time. a good coach for one person can be a disaster for another. if you know someone or know of someone that's a big plus.

Leroy42

I think at the level you are looking at (A4, A3 etc) the most improvement you will see from either is consistency. A consistent, goal based training, is IMO, the biggest factor.

Whether that be from following a generic plan, a personal plan or your own PM based sessions is open to debate but I'll give you my tuppence worth.

Got a PM two years ago and read all the books and already had a pretty good basis for training. What the PM allowed (forced!) me to do was to really focus on specific targets for each ride. SO there was very little 'cycling' done, it was all training. Now, alot of that training is simply Zone 1/2 or whatever so may not look like anything different, but those sessions were planned for a reason (active recovery, endurance or whatever). The harder sessions were also more targeted. It was no longer about trying to get up the next climb as fast as possible, it was about doing intervals and repeatability. In may cases that had the effect of climbing as fast as possible, but that was a side effect almost.

I then got some coaching last year, and without sounding big headed, there wasn't anything radical about any of it. There wasn't anything I hadn't heard before. But it was having plan to follow. A reason to get on the turbo or get out in the p1ssings of rain. It's too easy, without a plan, to simply roll over in the bed when you hear the wind/rain or to put off the turbo session for another day. What I found is that after a while I started to take a more specified approach to my training, taking the general outline of the generic training plan and adapting it it my specific goal.

Given the wealth of generic training plans available out there (Strava, Training Road etc etc) I would opt for the PM. But before I did either I would set down your goals, set down the amount of time you actually have to train (as opposed to what you think/wish you have) and what efforts you are actually prepared to make. Are you prepared to follow a stuctured plan? Are you overweight, what changes can you make to your life to create more cycling time. How suspectible are you to injury. Do you like to cycle on your own or do you prefer the social aspect of it?

A good coach can help you through these questions but really it all comes down to you. Obv a PM can't help you with any of this but if you already have these things worked out then a PM can be your on bike coach

Raymzor

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think at the level you are looking at (A4, A3 etc) the most improvement you will see from either is consistency. A consistent, goal based training, is IMO, the biggest factor.

Whether that be from following a generic plan, a personal plan or your own PM based sessions is open to debate but I'll give you my tuppence worth.

Got a PM two years ago and read all the books and already had a pretty good basis for training. What the PM allowed (forced!) me to do was to really focus on specific targets for each ride. SO there was very little 'cycling' done, it was all training. Now, alot of that training is simply Zone 1/2 or whatever so may not look like anything different, but those sessions were planned for a reason (active recovery, endurance or whatever). The harder sessions were also more targeted. It was no longer about trying to get up the next climb as fast as possible, it was about doing intervals and repeatability. In may cases that had the effect of climbing as fast as possible, but that was a side effect almost.

I then got some coaching last year, and without sounding big headed, there wasn't anything radical about any of it. There wasn't anything I hadn't heard before. But it was having plan to follow. A reason to get on the turbo or get out in the p1ssings of rain. It's too easy, without a plan, to simply roll over in the bed when you hear the wind/rain or to put off the turbo session for another day. What I found is that after a while I started to take a more specified approach to my training, taking the general outline of the generic training plan and adapting it it my specific goal.

Given the wealth of generic training plans available out there (Strava, Training Road etc etc) I would opt for the PM. But before I did either I would set down your goals, set down the amount of time you actually have to train (as opposed to what you think/wish you have) and what efforts you are actually prepared to make. Are you prepared to follow a stuctured plan? Are you overweight, what changes can you make to your life to create more cycling time. How suspectible are you to injury. Do you like to cycle on your own or do you prefer the social aspect of it?

A good coach can help you through these questions but really it all comes down to you. Obv a PM can't help you with any of this but if you already have these things worked out then a PM can be your on bike coach

Great post Leroy. Do you think many of programs assume you have 12 to 15 hours to train!

godtabh

Raymzor wrote: »

Great post Leroy. Do you think many of programs assume you have 12 to 15 hours to train!

Trainer Road asks how much time you have available and builds a plan based on that. What I did previously was use Trainer Plan to develop a plan. I did the plan both indoor and outdoor and followed it for a couple of months. Progress was obvious but then I sick and bike issues.

Took a long time just to enjoy cycling again. Come the winter I'll give it another go with a possible view of racing

Inquitus

godtabh wrote: »

Trainer Road asks how much time you have available and builds a plan based on that. What I did previously was use Trainer Plan to develop a plan. I did the plan both indoor and outdoor and followed it for a couple of months. Progress was obvious but then I sick and bike issues.

Took a long time just to enjoy cycling again. Come the winter I'll give it another go with a possible view of racing

I'd agree, for Winter training Trainer Road is ample good enough, when it comes to managing race form and targeting specific races I find it's a bit tougher to judge things, especially if you have family holidays or work trips in the middle of the race season.

Leroy42

Raymzor wrote: »

Great post Leroy. Do you think many of programs assume you have 12 to 15 hours to train!

As the others have said there are loads out there.

Now is the time to try things out. Don't overly worry about any plan, just pick one and try it out and if it doesn't suit you change to something else, but the worst that can happen is you get some training done!

Mr. Grieves

Pay a coach to tell you to buy a power meter. Dilemma over.

transylman

Power meter and Traineroad is plenty, unless you are the kind of person that needs to be constantly berated to get you to stick to a plan. I get the impression that a some coaches are just pulling plans from Traineroad anyway.

mossym

Leroy42 wrote: »

I then got some coaching last year, and without sounding big headed, there wasn't anything radical about any of it. There wasn't anything I hadn't heard before. But it was having plan to follow. A reason to get on the turbo or get out in the p1ssings of rain. It's too easy, without a plan, to simply roll over in the bed when you hear the wind/rain or to put off the turbo session for another day. What I found is that after a while I started to take a more specified approach to my training, taking the general outline of the generic training plan and adapting it it my specific goal.

to be fair, if this was the case, then what you had wasn't a coach, jsut someone doling out a generic plan. what you had to do yourself was what the coach should have been doing, and i wouldn't use that as an arguement against getting a coach, it's a reason not to get someone doling out a generic plan

mossym

transylman wrote: »

Power meter and Traineroad is plenty, unless you are the kind of person that needs to be constantly berated to get you to stick to a plan. I get the impression that a some coaches are just pulling plans from Traineroad anyway.

pretty much misses the point of a coach completely. the idea of a coach isn't to berate you into doing the training.

generic trainerroad plans will get you so far, if you are starting from a pretty low base. if you want to go any further than that, you need to make the training specific to your weaknesses. that's what the coach should do, and where differences over the bunch of people following generic traineroad plans can be made.

Inquitus

mossym wrote: »

pretty much misses the point of a coach completely. the idea of a coach isn't to berate you into doing the training.

generic trainerroad plans will get you so far, if you are starting from a pretty low base. if you want to go any further than that, you need to make the training specific to your weaknesses. that's what the coach should do, and where differences over the bunch of people following generic traineroad plans can be made.

How many coaching plans forensically analyse your training rides and review the content with you on a weekly basis to determine how best to move forwards? I would think not many in the 100 euro a month range where your plan is dished out a month in advance and hard to get it amended on the fly with things in life pop up, like sickness, kids events, family emergencies.

If you can get a good feeling for what training works for you and have the ability to just your own training for whatever life throws at you I think you are in a better place, unless you have no major work or family stuff and can pretty much commit to following the plan anytime you aren't sick.

mossym

Inquitus wrote: »

How many coaching plans forensically analyse your training rides and review the content with you on a weekly basis to determine how best to move forwards? I would think not many in the 100 euro a month range where your plan is dished out a month in advance and hard to get it amended on the fly with things in life pop up, like sickness, kids events, family emergencies.

If you can get a good feeling for what training works for you and have the ability to just your own training for whatever life throws at you I think you are in a better place, unless you have no major work or family stuff and can pretty much commit to following the plan anytime you aren't sick.

not 100% sure what that has to do with my post about a coach not being to berate you. so will assume you are referring to the second half of my post.

there are a couple of ways of looking at it. you can get a plan from someone that is generic as it comes but they will adjust anytime you want with another generic session. or you can get a plan from a coach that is highly individualized to your needs but only delivered once a month.

i've worked with a coach for a few years now, tri focused to be sure but that's a bigger scheduling challenge with trying to balance 3 sports. to save the arguments, i'm not saying the training is any harder, just trying to balance progression in 3 sports without any suffering given limited numbers of hours in the week. i don't pay 100 a month, although i probably should for the contact and engagement i get, and changes are made on the fly all the time. i'd agree that's the exception.

i'd agree if you have the ability to adjust your own plans then that is the best approach. but is anyone who is following a generic trainerroad plan, or coming on here wondering if a power meter or coach is a better option really able to do that? if you know enough to adjust the plan yourself you know enough to put it together in the first place.

it all depends how far the person wants to go. .Generic plans will deliver a certain level of results. if you want to go further than that, you need to personalize the plan so it addresses your own weaknesses. you can either do that yourself, or get a coach. i said in a previous post if you understood power numbers you could do the customization yourself.

the other question this brings up is, if you are happy to use a generic plan from trainerroad or the like, why even bother with the power meter? working to RPE/HR will likely deliver similar performance, the PM comes into play when you want to really fine tune your efforts. so if advising generic trainerroad plans and saying they are enough, shouldn't the op also be advised not to bother with a PM?