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Potential New Bike Café around Enniskerry

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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    Chuchote wrote: »
    A pop-up in different places to test out the market is a great idea.

    What about Glenasmole, in the hope that the funding will be returned for the Mountains-to-the-Sea cycleway from Glenasmole through to Ringsend/Sandymount along the Dodder? It's in Co Dublin, so you don't have to deal with Wicklow CoCo and their preciousness.
    Where abouts is Glenasmole? Never heard of it, is it popular with cyclists? Is there a cycling way being build to there?
    Also what's the problem with Wicklow Co Co? (Genuinely don't know!)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,618 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    It'd be great if you could accept KOMs as a currency. A strava based bitcoin, if you will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    It'd be great if you could accept KOMs as a currency. A strava based bitcoin, if you will.
    I was actually thinking about doing that for the Kilgarron Hill going out of Enniskerry (super steep, you may know it) but that would only be if I was to set up in Enniskerry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Great thread, OP.

    There was a thread on this a few years back and I remember at the time thinking it was a great idea-sure isn't there a dog cafe in Dublin that opened in the middle of a Recession?!

    The Rapha Ride clubs and Look Mum no Hands are the top of the pile in the way they do things but you have to remember they are catering to a huge market in London, with a lot of disposable income-and both places attract non roadies, and indeed non cyclists too-something that you will need during the winter months or when the Irish weather lets you down.

    LMNH is probably the better of the 2-less pretentious, for sure-and you can literally hang there from brekky to dinner-free WiFi, good gear and wrench shop, excellent coffee, cold water and colder beer in the summer-all stuff that I would have if I was opening a place..Some places even have shower and bike storage areas for commuters.

    To appreciate the scale of the popularity in London have a look here...http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/londons-best-cycle-cafes

    Even auld Pharmstrong has a place in Austin, Texas called Juan Pelota..Go figure!! Worldwide, for ideas...http://www.cntraveller.com/recommended/food/cycle-cafe-trend

    I would also have a club attached-remember most clubs don't have a clubhouse and by charging a small fee annually, holding some races, TTs etc, you would also have another source of footfall...Have cool club gear too!!!

    Good ride eats, perhaps some energy smoothies etc would go down well as would a small tool kit, track pump etc-it tends to be the really small things that bring your customers back and it is quite amazing what can piss people off too-bad coffee, rude staff, unrealistic prices and long queues..

    Why do I mention long queues? Well, my experience of any of the Citroen type mobile affairs is that they are REALLY slow-that will just turn people away if they are in the middle of Wicklow on a cold day..

    Bricks and mortar wise, Roundwood is poorly serviced-I personally don't like the Sugar Mountain place-there was an excellent place next door run by a lovely couple (who couldn't have been nicer) but they had issues with the Regulator and closed last year:(

    Stepaside is another place that has few (if no) cafes..

    Greystones, Ashford and indeed Laragh are all saturated-The Glendalough Fayre is very hit and miss-good coffee, average scones, but expensive and can come with an attitude on some days..Like a ski resort though, they have to make their killing in a narrow window that is the Irish Summer..Notr much footfall on an icy winter's afternoon in the middle of Winter.

    What might work to dip your toe would be to look at somewhere like Mount Usher in Ashford as a pop up to test the bike shop side, or indeed Roundwood at the caravan park..Just make sure the coffee and cake is good!!!

    BUT...if it was me making the investment, look at Rathdrum or Annamoe to try it out-the rents can't be massive in either village..

    Get a good wrench too (Think Mr.Skeffington or Lucasz in Asford Bike Repairs), even if it is just for Sat/Sun-How MTB's, XCs and roadies in Wicklow get home with bad mechanicals, I don't know!!

    Even just to get a spare tube or chain, Bray and Greystones are now the closest as the shop in Wicklow is now gone..

    Either way, I wish you the very best of luck-it's a fantastic idea!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Where abouts is Glenasmole? Never heard of it, is it popular with cyclists?...
    A little jewel in the crown of rural Dublin. One of my favourite places. It's in the postal area of Bohernabreena in Dublin 24 but it might as well be a million miles and four decades away.

    It's reasonably popular with cyclists but not to the same extent as Enniskerry/Laragh. Many go there to do the Cunard climb. There's no village as such and no shops or post office etc. Just a smattering of houses, a prefabricated community centre and a school.

    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/enfo/irelands-environment/county-focus/dublin-south/glenasmole-valley/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Where abouts is Glenasmole? Never heard of it, is it popular with cyclists? Is there a cycling way being build to there?
    Also what's the problem with Wicklow Co Co? (Genuinely don't know!)

    Glenasmole is near the source of the Dodder. Gleann na Smól, the Glen of the Thrushes. Last place Irish was spoken in Dublin. Surrounded by Seefin, Seahan and Kippure. A stunning, secret place. Look for Glenasmole Community Centre, South Dublin on Google Maps.

    Wicklow Co Co - well, for example, a friend wanted to build a house similar to the family home, which goes back to the middle of the 19th century. But oh, no, this traditional two-storey farmhouse style wouldn't do; it had to be single-storey, which would match the 'traditional' building of the area. Totally mad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 681 ✭✭✭ILIKEFOOD


    I stop at various city centre cafes after weekend spins and NEVER see any other roadies. It doesn't seem to be the done thing.


    City Cycles at Blackhall Place opened up a Cafe in there awhile ago - not sure how it's working out


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    ckeego wrote: »
    Great thread, OP.

    There was a thread on this a few years back and I remember at the time thinking it was a great idea-sure isn't there a dog cafe in Dublin that opened in the middle of a Recession?!

    The Rapha Ride clubs and Look Mum no Hands are the top of the pile in the way they do things but you have to remember they are catering to a huge market in London, with a lot of disposable income-and both places attract non roadies, and indeed non cyclists too-something that you will need during the winter months or when the Irish weather lets you down.

    LMNH is probably the better of the 2-less pretentious, for sure-and you can literally hang there from brekky to dinner-free WiFi, good gear and wrench shop, excellent coffee, cold water and colder beer in the summer-all stuff that I would have if I was opening a place..Some places even have shower and bike storage areas for commuters.

    To appreciate the scale of the popularity in London have a look here...

    Even auld Pharmstrong has a place in Austin, Texas called Juan Pelota..Go figure!! Worldwide, for ideas...
    I would also have a club attached-remember most clubs don't have a clubhouse and by charging a small fee annually, holding some races, TTs etc, you would also have another source of footfall...Have cool club gear too!!!

    Good ride eats, perhaps some energy smoothies etc would go down well as would a small tool kit, track pump etc-it tends to be the really small things that bring your customers back and it is quite amazing what can piss people off too-bad coffee, rude staff, unrealistic prices and long queues..

    Why do I mention long queues? Well, my experience of any of the Citroen type mobile affairs is that they are REALLY slow-that will just turn people away if they are in the middle of Wicklow on a cold day..

    Bricks and mortar wise, Roundwood is poorly serviced-I personally don't like the Sugar Mountain place-there was an excellent place next door run by a lovely couple (who couldn't have been nicer) but they had issues with the Regulator and closed last year:(

    Stepaside is another place that has few (if no) cafes..

    Greystones, Ashford and indeed Laragh are all saturated-The Glendalough Fayre is very hit and miss-good coffee, average scones, but expensive and can come with an attitude on some days..Like a ski resort though, they have to make their killing in a narrow window that is the Irish Summer..Notr much footfall on an icy winter's afternoon in the middle of Winter.

    What might work to dip your toe would be to look at somewhere like Mount Usher in Ashford as a pop up to test the bike shop side, or indeed Roundwood at the caravan park..Just make sure the coffee and cake is good!!!

    BUT...if it was me making the investment, look at Rathdrum or Annamoe to try it out-the rents can't be massive in either village..

    Get a good wrench too (Think Mr.Skeffington or Lucasz in Asford Bike Repairs), even if it is just for Sat/Sun-How MTB's, XCs and roadies in Wicklow get home with bad mechanicals, I don't know!!

    Even just to get a spare tube or chain, Bray and Greystones are now the closest as the shop in Wicklow is now gone..

    Either way, I wish you the very best of luck-it's a fantastic idea!

    Thanks for this detailed reply. LMNH would probably be the business model I'd be following, I like the way they do things and it works for them too.
    I would definitely get a club attached to it, would give some guaranteed footfall.
    Small things are really the most important things, just being able to fill up your water bottle and buy a few bars in itself is good enough for me.
    Location is constantly coming back as the most important thing (obviously!) Stepaside has a lot of cyclists and general footfall, but would be expensive and perhaps not enough of a location.
    Would be interested to know if anyone would stop in Annamoe with Laragh just up the road, and with Rathdrum it may just be too far away for most. Roundwood may be a good option, but there is a cafe there already. Thanks for the great response anyways, any other advice you have appreciated, you know what you're talking about!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    Using the Rapha club in London isn't a great example to me. I can only imaging the sort of cyclists that it attracts. And having been around much of London, I doubt it's a great city to cycle in,so not much from stopping you from popping in for a coffee(other that some of the parks)
    Cycling around elephant castle, Tottenham, Brixton on a rainy afternoon does not appeal to me and I can't imagine it comes close to Dublin/ Wicklow as a cycling location


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    By the way, does anyone have a good "bike imagination" to suggest good cycling related names for the very much hypothetical place?
    "Look Mum No Hands" is a simple but cool name. Trying to think of anything clever like that has my mind blank.. Be Creative!
    Only thing I could think of is "Maillot Jaune" or an irish twist "An geansaí buí" but again I never said I was good..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    Using the Rapha club in London isn't a great example to me. I can only imaging the sort of cyclists that it attracts. And having been around much of London, I doubt it's a great city to cycle in,so not much from stopping you from popping in for a coffee(other that some of the parks)
    Cycling around elephant castle, Tottenham, Brixton on a rainy afternoon does not appeal to me and I can't imagine it comes close to Dublin/ Wicklow as a cycling location
    I'd agree totally, we're spoiled here in Dublin with good rides in the city and the gem that is Wicklow is right on our doorstep as well. People don't want to stop!
    I saw that both Rapha and LMNH are both in the city centre of London, but if you were to do the same in Dublin, where would a good place in the City centre to set up shop be? I'd say Howth (not CC but close) would be one of the only viable options..


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    ckeego wrote: »
    LMNH is probably the better of the 2-less pretentious, for sure-and you can literally hang there from brekky to dinner-free WiFi, good gear and wrench shop, excellent coffee, cold water and colder beer in the summer-all stuff that I would have if I was opening a place..Some places even have shower and bike storage areas for commuters.

    To appreciate the scale of the popularity in London have a look here...http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/londons-best-cycle-cafes

    which begs the question, what about a LMNH for Dublin?

    I wonder if they'd consider selling a franchise (or opening a store themselves). I know their gear is hugely popular (I have some myself, and frequently see people around wearing it).


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Glenasmole is near the source of the Dodder. Gleann na Smól, the Glen of the Thrushes. Last place Irish was spoken in Dublin. Surrounded by Seefin, Seahan and Kippure. A stunning, secret place. Look for Glenasmole Community Centre, South Dublin on Google Maps.

    I think 'secret' is the problem here. Glenasmole is great but a lot of people simply don't know about it. A lot of people who do know about it, avoid it, because it isn't exactly the easiest of terrain to cycle on (some very steep gradients theres).

    For those who don't know where it is, carry on up the hill past Boharnabreena Cemetary and swing a right when you reach the fork at the top of the hill. The road follows around by a school, up another hill, to another fork. If you take the left fork you will end up heading towards military road through the feather beds. If you take the right fork theres a lovely road that takes you around the back of the reservoir. If you follow it all the way you'll eventually come out near the top of ballinascorney hill (by south dublin golf course).

    Some of the climbs from glenasmole to military road are some of the best around, but a lot of people don't know about them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Names - well, the English thing used to be 'Cyclists' Teas' back in the day; I always imagined a buxom young one in a fetching lace cap, pretty dress and daringly revealed silk knee-garters beckoning under a sign 'Cyclists' Tease' when i first heard it rather than seeing it spelt ;)
    Maillot Jaune is nice. Wheels? The Open Road? Cyclable? Cycloune, like the Paris bike shop? Cycleway? The Spokesman? No Limit?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Using the Rapha club in London isn't a great example to me. I can only imaging the sort of cyclists that it attracts. And having been around much of London, I doubt it's a great city to cycle in,so not much from stopping you from popping in for a coffee(other that some of the parks)
    Cycling around elephant castle, Tottenham, Brixton on a rainy afternoon does not appeal to me and I can't imagine it comes close to Dublin/ Wicklow as a cycling location

    I did say that LMNH was less pretentious!!

    But from the model that OP is going for, Rapha is a good base.. They have an (overpriced) ride club membership, good eats, excellent coffee, free WiFi, big screen events, talks with pros, (very) overpriced gear and is a nice place to sit down and read the magazines. They also attract a huge amount of non cyclists..All things the OP wants to do.

    Interestingly, it seems to be a really cool place to cycle around although it looks like a sportif on most days.. I've seen guys and girls commuting on bikes I only wet dream about...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Also, what about the most important thing in a cafe - the food. Whatcha gonna serve, Bikebuster? And will you offer, frinstance, packed lunches?

    Edit: incidentally, when i was talking about Glenasmole, it was in the context of the possibility that the funding for the Dodder Mountains-to-Sea cycleway may be returned. Our government have in their wisdom just snatched away the money for this wonderful plan and poured it into the giant metal billion-drinking maw of their current Luas plan. But I have no doubt that it will be funded again, which will mean that Glenasmole, my and a few others' personal secret, will be a known place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    1bryan wrote: »
    which begs the question, what about a LMNH for Dublin?

    I wonder if they'd consider selling a franchise (or opening a store themselves). I know their gear is hugely popular (I have some myself, and frequently see people around wearing it).
    Only one small problem.. There is a place called LMNH in Swords..

    Not sure if it is urban legend but for a long time Gap or Banana Repubkic couldn't open here as some local had the name on or just off Henry Street.

    You are dead right though.. If they got the right location, it would go down very well.. As I said though, where they are in Shoreditch is like shooting fish in a barrel for them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    ckeego wrote: »
    Only one small problem.. There is a place called LMNH in Swords..

    Not sure if it is urban legend but for a long time Gap or Banana Repubkic couldn't open here as some local had the name on or just off Henry Street.

    You are dead right though.. If they got the right location, it would go down very well.. As I said though, where they are in Shoreditch is like shooting fish in a barrel for them!

    Don't think it's much of an issue though -It's look Mam No Hands, plus it's not a cyclists café. Swords would also be far from where I'd set up.
    But yeah setting up an Irish LMNHs was something I started to consider when I heard about it, it would be a guaranteed hit almost, depending on location.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭1bryan


    Swords would also be far from where I'd set up.

    :)

    AMEN


  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Also, what about the most important thing in a cafe - the food. Whatcha gonna serve, Bikebuster? And will you offer, frinstance, packed lunches?

    Edit: incidentally, when i was talking about Glenasmole, it was in the context of the possibility that the funding for the Dodder Mountains-to-Sea cycleway may be returned. Our government have in their wisdom just snatched away the money for this wonderful plan and poured it into the giant metal billion-drinking maw of their current Luas plan. But I have no doubt that it will be funded again, which will mean that Glenasmole, my and a few others' personal secret, will be a known place.

    Will definitely check out Glenasmole, sounds like a gem. Hopefully that Mountains to sea cycleway will be given funding, because it would be great for locals and tourists alike.
    Haven't thought much about food but I'd probably offer breakfast, lunch and dinner with a bakery with cakes and all too. Packed lunch could also work!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Names - well, the English thing used to be 'Cyclists' Teas' back in the day; I always imagined a buxom young one in a fetching lace cap, pretty dress and daringly revealed silk knee-garters beckoning under a sign 'Cyclists' Tease' when i first heard it rather than seeing it spelt ;)
    Maillot Jaune is nice. Wheels? The Open Road? Cyclable? Cycloune, like the Paris bike shop? Cycleway? The Spokesman? No Limit?
    Cyclist's tease is a great one! The spokesman & the open road are great also!


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭guanciale


    OP

    Given the popularity of this thread you can see that it is an idea that those who you want to service are interested in. That is half of the battle.

    I would say that Wicklow to the east of the Sally and Wicklow gaps is well served by stops frequented by cyclists and others. However West & South West of Dublin is IMHO poorly served by coffee stops. Lots of cyclists head out Blessington way or Naas way on the weekend spins.

    Also the mobile option might be involve less of an initial outlay than an expensive lease. Coffee Angel in Dublin began that way and now is in several fine central locations (which gives me pause for thought in terms of the price I pay for coffee).

    I have been in Rapha stores in Amsterdam and London. Also in Look mum no hands in London.
    The idea behind these is that they are in very very busy thoroughfares. Passing traffic isn't an issue and they become destinations. A stand alone shop catering for cyclists will be pretty bleak on a wet Tuesday in February.
    Mobile if it can be done (coffee/folding chairs/awning for the rain/track pump) might be an idea but cost it in terms of how many coffees you need to sell. Also how do you carry food - or do you?

    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Cyclist's tease is a great one! The spokesman & the open road are great also!

    Cogs Grind.

    Another one of those small things that seem to work is to have a small bring and take library for bike books... Saw one abroad recently and they even had a stash of zip loc bags to put the book into..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Thanks for this detailed reply. LMNH would probably be the business model I'd be following, I like the way they do things and it works for them too.
    I would definitely get a club attached to it, would give some guaranteed footfall.
    Small things are really the most important things, just being able to fill up your water bottle and buy a few bars in itself is good enough for me.
    Location is constantly coming back as the most important thing (obviously!) Stepaside has a lot of cyclists and general footfall, but would be expensive and perhaps not enough of a location.
    Would be interested to know if anyone would stop in Annamoe with Laragh just up the road, and with Rathdrum it may just be too far away for most. Roundwood may be a good option, but there is a cafe there already. Thanks for the great response anyways, any other advice you have appreciated, you know what you're talking about!
    No problem. Any time.

    Feel free to PM at any stage. It was a project that we looked at a few years back but the track that is life took a different turn!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    ckeego wrote: »
    Using the Rapha club in London isn't a great example to me. I can only imaging the sort of cyclists that it attracts. And having been around much of London, I doubt it's a great city to cycle in,so not much from stopping you from popping in for a coffee(other that some of the parks)
    Cycling around elephant castle, Tottenham, Brixton on a rainy afternoon does not appeal to me and I can't imagine it comes close to Dublin/ Wicklow as a cycling location



    But from the model that OP is going for, Rapha is a good base..

    Sorry but that might work in London but the OP asked about setting up in Enniskerry or around that area. They are totally different from each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Cyclist's tease is a great one! The spokesman & the open road are great also!
    'Spokesman' is used by a mobile cycle repair shop.

    What about 'Cyclological' (as the shop of the same name is no longer with us).


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,618 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Names - well, the English thing used to be 'Cyclists' Teas' back in the day; I always imagined a buxom young one in a fetching lace cap, pretty dress and daringly revealed silk knee-garters beckoning under a sign 'Cyclists' Tease' when i first heard it rather than seeing it spelt ;)
    Maillot Jaune is nice. Wheels? The Open Road? Cyclable? Cycloune, like the Paris bike shop? Cycleway? The Spokesman? No Limit?
    Cyclist's tease is a great one! The spokesman & the open road are great also!
    Call it 'we don't pay road tax'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭ckeego


    Sorry but that might work in London but the OP asked about setting up in Enniskerry or around that area. They are totally different from each other.
    Be positive, man!!

    He is just looking for ideas..

    And like them or loathe them, Rapha make a huge profit in making every day stuff highly attractive at ludicrous prices through extremely smart marketing..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭irishrover99


    ckeego wrote: »
    Sorry but that might work in London but the OP asked about setting up in Enniskerry or around that area. They are totally different from each other.
    Be positive, man!!

    He is just looking for ideas..

    And like them or loathe them, Rapha make a huge profit in making every day stuff highly attractive at ludicrous prices through extremely smart marketing..
    I wish the OP nothing but the best and will gladly drop in if he does happen to get it going. Definitely not begrudging the guy and i am only giving my advice too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Sunsets On Tuesday


    guanciale wrote: »
    OP

    Given the popularity of this thread you can see that it is an idea that those who you want to service are interested in. That is half of the battle.

    I would say that Wicklow to the east of the Sally and Wicklow gaps is well served by stops frequented by cyclists and others. However West & South West of Dublin is IMHO poorly served by coffee stops. Lots of cyclists head out Blessington way or Naas way on the weekend spins.

    Also the mobile option might be involve less of an initial outlay than an expensive lease. Coffee Angel in Dublin began that way and now is in several fine central locations (which gives me pause for thought in terms of the price I pay for coffee).

    I have been in Rapha stores in Amsterdam and London. Also in Look mum no hands in London.
    The idea behind these is that they are in very very busy thoroughfares. Passing traffic isn't an issue and they become destinations. A stand alone shop catering for cyclists will be pretty bleak on a wet Tuesday in February.
    Mobile if it can be done (coffee/folding chairs/awning for the rain/track pump) might be an idea but cost it in terms of how many coffees you need to sell. Also how do you carry food - or do you?

    Best of luck.

    I think Roundwood may be looking good if I was to set up a physical shop. The mobile option is good also, as with the coffee Angel model you could start like that and then move to a proper shop. I get what you're saying with Rapha and LMNH, You'd wonder where the same location would exist in Dublin, if it does exist. The wet Tuesday in February is the biggest issue, but I suppose I'd be aiming at non cyclists too which may reduce that issue.
    Carrying food may be tough, it'd be something to think about.
    I think the demand is there, as you said this thread is popular enough and people seem to be interested. Thanks for the comments.


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