Werewolf discussion thread

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Once the player revealed they had not read their PM, multiple players referred (and were able to identify themselves (albeit incorrectly) to each other) to the content contained within.

The references were so unspecific how do you police it. I don't see why the emphasise being put on thr players to check is the solution instead of posting the pm (with BR login info redacted).

Baggly

Necro wrote:

I agree that the final decision on sanction within the game lies with the game mods, but I can't see how it can be argued it wasn't a breach.

I can't do it now but I'll explain my position at some stage. Family do won't lend itself to citing examples and finding posts.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

The references were so unspecific how do you police it. I don't see why the emphasise being put on thr players to check is the solution instead of posting the pm (with BR login info redacted).

Well mainly because it's in the rules tbh. Otherwise there's no point in putting it there.

Don't disagree about posting the NRV PM, but that's up to the game mods I guess.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Well mainly because it's in the rules tbh. Otherwise there's no point in putting it there.

But my point is it's at least borderline and its entirely possible for someone to slip in this regard. It's too easy to mess it up or subjectively think you are on the right side of the rules.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Well mainly because it's in the rules tbh. Otherwise there's no point in putting it there.

We all break rules unintentionally at one stage or another, yourself and myself included. It's important the rules are realistic and enforceable, imo.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

But my point is it's at least borderline and its entirely possible for someone to slip in this regard. It's too easy to mess it up or subjectively think you are on the right side of the rules.

Which is why I go back to my original point. If you think that something is off, contact the game mods before posting on thread. Least they deserve imo given the time and effort they put into games.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

We all break rules unintentionally at one stage or another, yourself and myself included. It's important the rules are realistic and enforceable, imo.

It's perfectly realistic to expect people to read the rules, which were ironclad in reference to PM discussion in this game.

Necro

Drumpot wrote: »

What’s the story with copying posts from COP ? I don’t see anything specific in rules ( edit is BR Cop?)that prevents people from doing it yet some thought they had to retype posts themselves to make sure it wasn’t agaisnt rules.

Also, why does it look like 29 people are viewing in the ww forum? There’s no games on but it looks full of people!

On backroom stuff - again this is really game mod specific (imo, PM discussion should be just barred, period without game mod approval rather than any ambiguity).

I'd treat info I get in a backroom differently, eg if I was the seer I'd have to be able to share that info at some point.
Paraphrasing is ok, but direct quoting including timestamps shouldn't happen imo.

It would depend on the set-up though, in a game like one just played some of the stuff in the backrooms (particularly the shared district ones) was game related so it's a grey area. Again though, I'd tend to lean on the side of caution and just PM a game mod to check what I'd planned was ok.

No idea why it looks like there's a lot of people viewing WW at the moment, it seems to happen intermittently.

tusk

Necro wrote: »

No idea why it looks like there's a lot of people viewing WW at the moment, it seems to happen intermittently.

I'm always watching!

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Which is why I go back to my original point. If you think that something is off, contact the game mods before posting on thread. Least they deserve imo given the time and effort they put into games.

That wasn't the point I was making. The rules state contact the mods if in doubt, if there is no doubt for the player, even if they are wrong, they havent disobeyed the rules. That's why I'm saying it's not clear cut. It phrased subjectively.

Necro wrote:

It's perfectly realistic to expect people to read the rules, which were ironclad in reference to PM discussion in this game.

People can read the rules and slip. That's my point.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

That wasn't the point I was making. The rules state contact the mods if in doubt, if there is no doubt for the player, even if they are wrong, they havent disobeyed the rules. That's why I'm saying it's not clear cut. It phrased subjectively.

What about the following rule (considering this is the game in question)

5. All players will receive PMs, please no copying and pasting of PMs that we send you, nor will you be allowed copy and paste anything from any backroom you may or may not have. If you want to discuss the content of a PM with the village, please discuss it with the Mods first before discussing any PMs on thread.

Is subjective in terms of discussing PMs? It's absolutely ironclad in this circumstance due to the inclusion of the final line.

If the mods were not PMed in respect of the PM discussion, then it's a clear rule breach.

Baggly

So where does 'I didn't read my pm properly' fall in that?

Necro

Baggly wrote:

So where does 'I didn't read my pm properly' fall in that?

As a rule breach as they didn't read the game rules in the OP regarding PM discussion.

Baggly

OK so. Agree to disagree.

Necro

Baggly wrote:

OK so. Agree to disagree.

I mean ignorance of the law (or rules) is never a defence, imagine if someone didn't read the charter and decided to post in breach of it, they wouldn't get off on that defence as it's their job to inform themselves of the rules.

I treat game rules in the exact same way as I would a charter on boards.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

I mean ignorance of the law (or rules) is never a defence, imagine if someone didn't read the charter and decided to post in breach of it, they wouldn't get off on that defence as it's their job to inform themselves of the rules.

I never said it was. I'm saying I have a different interpretation to you. I'm also saying that rule is needless if a pm is posted in the OP, and that it doesn't cover all eventualities imo. I also think it's hard to enforce. If there is a slip the cats out of the bag and you can't get it back in there. It would also be very harsh to punish such a breach if its minor or unintentional.

Its a different kettle of fish to charter breaches, as there is no time or game pressure if someone breaks forum rules, and as well as that, there are structures in place for the forum that aren't there for game issues.

You can think it's black and white, that's the impression I'm getting; I just don't agree.

Necro

Baggly wrote:

I never said it was. I'm saying I have a different interpretation to you. I'm also saying that rule is needless if a pm is posted in the OP, and that it doesn't cover all eventualities imo. I also think it's hard to enforce. If there is a slip the cats out of the bag and you can't get it back in there. It would also be very harsh to punish such a breach if its minor or unintentional.

I'm of the opinion that role PMs should never be discussed on the game thread. Ever. It's too open to this sort of discussion in whether Bob WW meant to break the rules or not.

Just don't do it, and theres not an issue.

Minor or unintentional aside, it just shouldn't be done without prior game mod approval.

That's me leaning on my experience as both a game mod and a player where a minor issue (which can and has in the past) steamrolls into a game breaking situation.

Baggly

Game breaks that have happened before should be mitigated by mods, not players, where possible. If something new comes up and breaks a game that's unfortunate (esp if game can't be saved) but we will learn from it at least.

Remove the sting from someone talking about pms, because if you don't a slip can still break the game. I think that's the way to address it rather than a rule you then have to enforce for small, big or unintentional issues.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

Game breaks that have happened before should be mitigated by mods, not players, where possible. If something new comes up and breaks a game that's unfortunate (esp if game can't be saved) but we will learn from it at least.

Remove the sting from someone talking about pms, because if you don't a slip can still break the game. I think that's the way to address it rather than a rule you then have to enforce for small, big or unintentional issues.

Game mods should ensure there is nothing in the PMs that could give any indication of alignment, that I agree.

But, excusing players for discussing role PMs on the game thread is crazy, why do people need to do it? What possible good can come from it, you yourself are saying that a slip can still happen.

PM discussion should be treated the same as the no edit rule, both are equally important in retaining game integrity.

Baggly

Necro wrote:

But, excusing players for discussing role PMs on the game thread is crazy, why do people need to do it? What possible good can come from it, you yourself are saying that a slip can still happen.

Thats not what i have been saying at all and I think I've laid out my position fairly well at this stage. I'm sorry I'd love to keep discussing this but I'm gonna be afk for a while. Im OK with us not agreeing on this though. As I have said, agree to disagree.

Necro

Baggly wrote: »

Thats not what i have been saying at all and I think I've laid out my position fairly well at this stage. I'm sorry I'd love to keep discussing this but I'm gonna be afk for a while. Im OK with us not agreeing on this though. As I have said, agree to disagree.

Tbh, you haven't, at all.

But yeah, leave it there I guess.

Bounty Hunter

From reading this I think I have decided to include the NRV PM in the OP when I run a game.


Was wondering why it seemed there were 30 people viewing the werewolf forum the past few days when there was no game going on

sKeith

Kolido wrote: »

Just a couple of points I would like to put forward from a mod pov following the last game.

We had quite a serious breach of the rules in the last game, although technically there was no breach as its not in the rules but should be obvious. A player, known they were dead, posted vital info in the shared br before we sorted permissions. It didnt have any bearing on the game overall as far as I can tell. Also we noticed players posted in the brs before the game went live on boards. Maybe we need to explicitally state this in the rules, no posting in the br untill game goes live or after you are announced dead. Probably not an issue for most games unless you are using a shared br setup like we did on hg.

Also noticed, as with most games, players accidently posting in their own accs in an anon. As I suggested to my co mods, maybe we should auto revoke ww forum permissions for ever player who signs up for an anon. Extra work for the forum mods so its something they would need to decide on. Im not sure how much of an affect on the game posting in your own acc has but I think its better it doesnt happen.

Finally, with all the interest currently in modding and playing, could we have a case for running bi monthly themed games. Might dilute the rosters but could give players a chance to get their favourite themes out there. Of course we have the slow burners running which are an excellent addition. Thoughts?

Hi Kolido,


Get together with your co mods and figure out what sanctions you would like to impose.


dead posting by mstake is a minor breach, ( normally folks are still typing and didnt notice the deadline passing)

but this dead posting was not a mistake.


they mentioned that they were dead.


therefore intentional.


let the offender know what punishment you would like to impose.


only if they disagree, then maybe it can be escalated to fg mods.


its a game rule that was broken, so its but to you 4 mods to come up with the punishment, and for offender to agree to serve it.


the discussion about pms seemed angleshooty by conor.


it really should not have been dug into further.


we are all human beings here, lets learn from our mistakes.

it was 58 about a half hour ago which is a bit mad, are the russian bots looking to play ww again I wonder

quickbeam

The dead posting was dealt with. Kolido merely wishes to remind all players of the importance of adhering to the rule.

Baggly

sKeith wrote:

let the offender know what punishment you would like to impose.

Game mods can hand out punishments in game. Game ends, it's FG mods job. There will be no player to player punishments.

Baggly

sKeith wrote:

we are all human beings here, lets learn from our mistakes.

100% agree

Necro

Deleted User wrote:

it was 58 about a half hour ago which is a bit mad, are the russian bots looking to play ww again I wonder

Wasnt me this time... Baggly never lets me live down the time I advertised on MU for players and we had loads of randomers 'viewing' the forum....

Baggly

Necro wrote:

Wasnt me this time... Baggly never lets me live down the time I advertised on MU for players and we had loads of randomers 'viewing' the forum....

I don't actually mind at all

I wonder how high we could get it.....

Necro

Baggly wrote:

Game mods can hand out punishments in game. Game ends, it's FG mods job. There will be no player to player punishments.

No spankings? Dammit that's it I'm setting up my own forum!