Charger Network

TBi

Is it just me or is there a lot of chargers out of action at the moment?

https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

We had a discussion about this issue a few weeks back. You're not the only one that has noticed.

NIMAN

This will help with EV car sales.

All a bit half-arsed, isn't it?

TBi

NIMAN wrote: »

All a bit half-arsed, isn't it?

More disconcerting than anything else. They'll use this as justification for bringing in an expensive cost structure for charging. "If you don't pay €XXX then we won't be able to maintain the network"...

cros13

CCS in Urlingford has been down for 14 months now.
The rapids at Portlaoise Midway and Dublin Airport have been down for almost two months.

Worth bringing this up when they bring back charging.

Also now is one of the last opportunities to talk to your TD before the budget gets finalized.

NIMAN

cros13 wrote: »

CCS in Urlingford has been down for 14 months now.
The rapids at Portlaoise Midway and Dublin Airport have been down for almost two months.

Thats shocking.
Do they show up on the Leaf info system as not working? If not, it would be a real pain to arrive at a charger thats hammered and be out of juice.

cros13

Nope, the Nav on both the i3 and Leaf are capable of receiving live charger status and displaying on the map, but ESB does not feed them the data.

NIMAN

That would be another tick in the minus/con column for me for EVs.

KeyCode

To be honest, that would put me right off. It sends a message that they aren't really taking it all that seriously.

cros13

In fact, the efacec QC45 triple chargers they've been fitting also have a ground loop interface that would allow ESB to monitor whether a bay is ICEd and the i3 (but not the Leaf) has the ability to display this data too.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

In fact, the efacec QC45 triple chargers they've been fitting also have a ground loop interface that would allow ESB to monitor whether a bay is ICEd and the i3 (but not the Leaf) has the ability to display this data too.

assuming they stay online for any length of time , the QC45s seem to fail all over the place

cros13

RFID reader is down in Lucan too....
It's been dodgy for a few months now but it finally gave up the ghost early this week.
It's not marked as down on the map.

Clonshaugh and Sandyford were fixed today.

cros13

I had a regrettable incident at the Naas rapid this evening after leaving Lucan.

I pulled into the rapid short a few kWh of reaching the Ballacolla rapid (Junction 14 has no CCS and Midway Portlaoise is down), but still about 90 minutes of AC charging down.
A local KE reg leaf which is has blocked the charger before for long periods was connected and charging.

LEDs indicated they hadn't been charging for too long, I watched them move from the 1st to the second LED shortly after I parked up.
I thought fine, I'll hook up to the AC and give them 20-30 minutes to make sure they reach over 80% and if there is still no sign of anyone I'll interrupt their charge.

Sure enough 20 minutes later and with the leaf well into the third LED, still noone.
A few minutes after I cut the power, a woman and her son walked out to the Leaf. I immediately started to explain what I'd done (in a very apologetic tone I might add) and I got a stream of insults and threats in response, along with an implication that I'd just shown up and cut power to her car when she'd just started charging.

For anyone else I would have waited longer, usually I wait at least 20 minutes after I first notice a Leaf on the third light, but in this case I'd had the same issue of a hostile response with this particular driver earlier this year (I might add with two other drivers waiting and more than 45 minutes on the clock).

I'm very torn about using an emergency cut-out for essentially vigilante enforcement on my part. But what other options are there? I've called ESB before, and for obvious reasons they won't stop the charge, but something has to give, surely?
Maybe a chargebump style system that notifies the owner and allows them to indicate when they'll be back (with ESB stopping the charge if they fail to respond or after a timeout).

Anyway, I find it hard to feel apologetic given the attitude of the driver involved.
These kind of incidents are going to become more of a problem, especially if ESB doesn't start doubling up chargers.

TBi

cros13 wrote: »

These kind of incidents are going to become more of a problem, especially if ESB doesn't start doubling up chargers.

Unfortunately it's due to selfish people like this that we need to start charging for charging. I don't think they'd stay so long if they were paying for it.

I had an idea for a good cost structure, charge per kWh while charge rates are above a certain rate (when you are getting maximum charging ability) and then start charging by minute when it gets down to the trickle charge (80-100%?). Then benefit of this is that it doesn't penalise Leaf drivers with 3.3kw chargers, but also doesn't give unfair advantage to people with high speed chargers (which would destroy the market for 3kw leafs).

Just hopefully it won't be the outrageous pricing structure that came out at the end of last year, or so little that it's cheaper for people to charge in public than at home.

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

I had a regrettable incident at the Naas rapid this evening after leaving Lucan.

I pulled into the rapid short a few kWh of reaching the Ballacolla rapid (Junction 14 has no CCS and Midway Portlaoise is down), but still about 90 minutes of AC charging down.
A local KE reg leaf which is has blocked the charger before for long periods was connected and charging.

LEDs indicated they hadn't been charging for too long, I watched them move from the 1st to the second LED shortly after I parked up.
I thought fine, I'll hook up to the AC and give them 20-30 minutes to make sure they reach over 80% and if there is still no sign of anyone I'll interrupt their charge.

Sure enough 20 minutes later and with the leaf well into the third LED, still noone.
A few minutes after I cut the power, a woman and her son walked out to the Leaf. I immediately started to explain what I'd done (in a very apologetic tone I might add) and I got a stream of insults and threats in response, along with an implication that I'd just shown up and cut power to her car when she'd just started charging.

For anyone else I would have waited longer, usually I wait at least 20 minutes after I first notice a Leaf on the third light, but in this case I'd had the same issue of a hostile response with this particular driver earlier this year (I might add with two other drivers waiting and more than 45 minutes on the clock).

I'm very torn about using an emergency cut-out for essentially vigilante enforcement on my part. But what other options are there? I've called ESB before, and for obvious reasons they won't stop the charge, but something has to give, surely?
Maybe a chargebump style system that notifies the owner and allows them to indicate when they'll be back (with ESB stopping the charge if they fail to respond or after a timeout).

Anyway, I find it hard to feel apologetic given the attitude of the driver involved.
These kind of incidents are going to become more of a problem, especially if ESB doesn't start doubling up chargers.

So now you know what I had to deal with in Naas for 9 months

The danger here is someone having an emergency and you getting sued. You just can't do it, you can't interfere with someone else's property. I met some nutters there and one Woman bad mouthing me on Facebook on the mad Irish EV owners Group (not the Association). You could end up in a load of trouble and there could be false allegations etc, you know how things can escalate and especially how bad people can get.

Even if this person is there only for free electricity and they usually are at Naas then you'll never get it in to the heads of these kind of people that they should use the chargers only when they need to. They'll always be right in their minds and do whatever they want, you will never change people. The only way is to charge a fee for usage.

Maybe BoadMad will realise now I wasn't talking through my arse when I was complaining about the DC in Naas. :-)

TBi

TBi wrote: »

Unfortunately it's due to selfish people like this that we need to start charging for charging. I don't think they'd stay so long if they were paying for it.

I had an idea for a good cost structure, charge per kWh while charge rates are above a certain rate (when you are getting maximum charging ability) and then start charging by minute when it gets down to the trickle charge (80-100%?). Then benefit of this is that it doesn't penalise Leaf drivers with 3.3kw chargers, but also doesn't give unfair advantage to people with high speed chargers (which would destroy the market for 3kw leafs).

Just hopefully it won't be the outrageous pricing structure that came out at the end of last year, or so little that it's cheaper for people to charge in public than at home.

An even simpler thing to do would be to set the cut off timer after 15 mins instead of 59, 59 mins is ridiculous, this way the driver waiting will have the right to unplug the car unless the driver is present and can reactivate the charger.

So simple......

BoatMad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

An even simpler thing to do would be to set the cut off timer after 15 mins instead of 59, 59 mins is ridiculous, this way the driver waiting will have the right to unplug the car unless the driver is present and can reactivate the charger.

So simple......

Don't worry about being sued. If they are at or above 80 %. Unplug them. Explain you're rushing home as your wife's waters broken.

Ass holes abound and need to be treated like assholes

Ps yourre not touching their property.

A pricing regime will not sort this out. All that will do is further enhance these assholes sense of entitlement " I'm paying for it so you can F off. " etc

The solution is as mentioned. Charge to 80 % then shut the session if user wants 100 they have to be there to restart it.

Ps mad_lad , there's obviously a collection of assholes around Naas , personally I've never witnessed bad behaviour and I'd argue I make way way more use of the FCP network then you.

KCross

cros13 wrote: »

A few minutes after I cut the power, a woman and her son walked out to the Leaf. I immediately started to explain what I'd done (in a very apologetic tone I might add) and I got a stream of insults and threats in response, along with an implication that I'd just shown up and cut power to her car when she'd just started charging.

How do you stop someone's charge? I thought it was locked to the car port?

Are you saying you hit the emergency stop button and that releases it?

Does it then require a remote reset by ESB or do you just turn the stop button back?
Do ESB frown on this since it's not an emergency?

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

Don't worry about being sued. If they are at or above 80 %. Unplug them. Explain you're rushing home as your wife's waters broken.

Ass holes abound and need to be treated like assholes

Ps yourre not touching their property.

A pricing regime will not sort this out. All that will do is further enhance these assholes sense of entitlement " I'm paying for it so you can F off. " etc

The solution is as mentioned. Charge to 80 % then shut the session if user wants 100 they have to be there to restart it.

Ps mad_lad , there's obviously a collection of assholes around Naas , personally I've never witnessed bad behaviour and I'd argue I make way way more use of the FCP network then you.

Maybe there's a large concentration of leaf owners in the Naas/Kill area.

If you remember it was you that originally mentioned the 15 min cut off, I thought it is a good idea. This way people will come back to the car if they really want more charge or be disconnected.

I think people will use a lot more of their cheap night rate electricity if they have to pay more for fast charging even if they charged 20C/Kwh, I guarantee people would rather pay 8.5 or whatever per Kwh night rate and won't feel so entitled to use the chargers.

peposhi

cros13, if a gentleman like yourself got into an argument, the other person must have been real PITA. I do think only charging system per minute or drawn kWh would stop people from being p....s...

TBi

Talking about charging networks. Do the guys use apps such as plug share/charge bump? What's the most popular in Ireland?

KCross

TBi wrote: »

Talking about charging networks. Do the guys use apps such as plug share/charge bump? What's the most popular in Ireland?

Neither of those appear to be utilised much in Ireland. No alternatives out there that I saw.

BoatMad

TBi wrote: »

Talking about charging networks. Do the guys use apps such as plug share/charge bump? What's the most popular in Ireland?

I update plugshare when I can. But it's so little used in Ireland as to be fir all practical purposes, useless

I have a piece of A4 paper that I leave on the Dash, one side says, you can plug me out and I make sure the lock isn't engaged, the other side has my number.

IF someone calls me I either say yeah go ahead and charge or I just need 5 more mins or whatever then work away and try get back as quick as I can after.

Funny enough I never had someone unplug me without calling, then again I'm not a major user of the network.

isnottheword

TBi wrote: »

Talking about charging networks. Do the guys use apps such as plug share/charge bump? What's the most popular in Ireland?

KCross wrote: »

Neither of those appear to be utilised much in Ireland. No alternatives out there that I saw.

Would be great if people used a bit more. I've a chargebump 'disc' like the one below in the placeholder for the nct disc. It's there to encourage others to install the chargebump app and message me - if they need me to shift.

I've also registered my 30amp homecharger on plugshare. I'd encourage others to do likewise. It could make the difference for someone from being stranded and getting enough juice on board to get to the next public charging point. Looking at the plugshare map, there's only about 32 private residential chargers listed - surely we can do better than that!?

DrPhilG

Where did you get that charge bump sign?

Scottie99

Enniskillen left me in the sh1t today, server down..
To make matters worse, I had a EV sceptic in the car. I was showing him how great the EV was. Grrr

isnottheword

DrPhilG wrote: »

Where did you get that charge bump sign?

Attached. Just print off - cut out - and place in the nct placeholder (and install the app on your phone also of course).

EDIT - I can't seem to attach it....

Someone posted it online - it's at the following link =>
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2nru11b7psyl5u0/chargebump-taxdisc-1.pdf?dl=1

BoatMad

Since I rarely stay at fcps for more then 20 mins and often solely to put enough in for the next phase , I have only had one occasion where a leaf arrived when I was charging ( and just three occasions , when I arrived to find them charging ) in 9 months. ( fcps gets used about 4-6 times a week , home charge 6 days a week as well )

Most of the time that's nobody at these fcps.

KCross

I have the chargebump sticker on my windscreen and I also wrote my mobile on it in case they dont have chargebump themselves.

I dont use public chargers much so its of limited use really. When I do use the rapids I usually stay with the car. I certainly wouldnt go away for 30+ mins.

I suppose the main benefit of chargebump is for the SCP's where it would be there for a few hours. It would be useful in that scenario. I havent been bumped yet anyway. It costs nothing to have it so we should all sign up.

isnottheword

KCross wrote: »

It costs nothing to have it so we should all sign up.

Exactly. I may never be 'bumped'. I do use SCP daily - where there are 2 chargers and I've never seen any other car ever charge there. However, if it helped someone only one time - it's worthwhile (for us all).

The same applies with plugshare. I think it's highly unlikely anyone will ever use my 30 amp charger but if they reach this area and the public charger is down, then they have the reassurance that they can get some power on board to continue on their way.

BoatMad

The same applies with plugshare. I think it's highly unlikely anyone will ever use my 30 amp charger but if they reach this area and the public charger is down, then they have the reassurance that they can get some power on board to continue on their way.

i didnt register mine , as there is a very under utilised SCP near me.

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

i didnt register mine , as there is a very under utilised SCP near me.

The same scenario as me - almost exclusively my own 2x public chargers to myself. Still think its worthwhile registering with plugshare though - if that SCP goes down and someone hasn't got a plan b in place, then its a reassurance.

zilog_jones

KCross wrote: »

I have the chargebump sticker on my windscreen and I also wrote my mobile on it in case they dont have chargebump themselves.

You're OK with having your mobile number on display at all times? I got some static cling disc/permit holders on eBay - you can affix stickers to them and remove them from the windscreen whenever you want. Can be used for tax disc etc. too, so no adhesives on the windscreen at all.

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

You're OK with having your mobile number on display at all times? I got some static cling disc/permit holders on eBay - you can affix stickers to them and remove them from the windscreen whenever you want. Can be used for tax disc etc. too, so no adhesives on the windscreen at all.

mmm... whats the downside? Is someone going to call me for a chat? You're mobile is personal but hardly private or open to abuse as such. It doesnt expose my name, address etc. And its in small writing so someone would have to be within a foot of the windscreen to read it.

Give me a reason and I'll consider getting out the tippex.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

mmm... whats the downside? Is someone going to call me for a chat? You're mobile is personal but hardly private or open to abuse as such. It doesnt expose my name, address etc. And its in small writing so someone would have to be within a foot of the windscreen to read it.

Give me a reason and I'll consider getting out the tippex.

this is a better idea , or something similar

KCross

I'd rather not have to be fiddling around with that every time I charge and filling in times etc for when i think I'll have enough charge.

Chargebump is there. They message you. You check the app for what charge and range you have and you give a response. Its all immediate and up to date. Done.


The specific ones in those pictures would not fit well on a Leaf either with the flap. Could be designed differently I guess but still I wouldnt want to be putting that up each time for the odd occasion that a bump is required.


Also, how do you unplug someone unless the charge has stopped and the charger has released? Isnt it locked to the car or is that DC only?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

I'd rather not have to be fiddling around with that every time I charge and filling in times etc for when i think I'll have enough charge.

Chargebump is there. They message you. You check the app for what charge and range you have and you give a response. Its all immediate and up to date. Done.


The specific ones in those pictures would not fit well on a Leaf either with the flap. Could be designed differently I guess but still I wouldnt want to be putting that up each time for the odd occasion that a bump is required.

The idea is a hanger that has your details. not quite as detailed as the image. You dont fill it out everytime, the idea being that your mobile is only displayed when you are charging

There are only a tiny number of chargebump users, so that method is fairly useless IMHO

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

The idea is a hanger that has your details. not quite as detailed as the image. You dont fill it out everytime, the idea being that your mobile is only displayed when you are charging

There are only a tiny number of chargebump users, so that method is fairly useless IMHO

And no one has a hanger so even more useless... but better than nothing I suppose!

Chargebump would work perfectly fine if people were aware of it and signed up. Its a once off free setup and a sticker on the window and thats it. Very easy. No personal identifying info or mobile numbers etc required. Just a smartphone. For those without a smartphone, a hanger or note on the dash.

Hopefully it will catch on over time and we live in the digital age so embrace it.

stesaurus

I've tried to mention it to some people at chargepoints and you generally get blank stares as if to say "what's the point of that? i'll appear back when i'm good and ready". People in general aren't interested in anything inconveniencing themselves.

BoatMad

And no one has a hanger so even more useless... but better than nothing I suppose!

suer, but unlike people having charge bump , I suggest the majority of EV users can READ !!!

KCross

s.welstead wrote: »

I've tried to mention it to some people at chargepoints and you generally get blank stares as if to say "what's the point of that? i'll appear back when i'm good and ready". People in general aren't interested in anything inconveniencing themselves.

Until they get caught themselves! Although those people probably wouldnt respond to a bump anyway but would expect a response when they are stuck... you just cant deal with those people.... just roll the eyes and move on.

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

suer, but unlike people having charge bump , I suggest the majority of EV users can READ !!!

:mad: You got me there!

I still hope you have or support a chargebump account though! There isnt anything negative about them.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

:mad: You got me there!

I still hope you have or support a chargebump account though! There isnt anything negative about them.

yep i use charge bump and plugshare, its a user wilderness however

I use the FCPs 4-6 times a week, since march only one leaf has queued behind me anyway . I hardly use SCPs at all ( 2 times since march )

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I use the FCPs 4-6 times a week, since march only one leaf has queued behind me anyway . I hardly use SCPs at all ( 2 times since march )

I'd suspect the high usage is around people making their commute home(i.e. rush hours). It would be interesting to see the usage profiles of the chargers. eCars will never release that I suppose.

If you use FCP's during the day they are probably idle most of the time.

I've done a few long trips(e.g. Rosslare-Cork and Cork-Dublin-Cork) during the day where I had to use multiple FCP's and I never had to queue either. A few times a Leaf came in behind me and I was nearly finished so they only had to wait a few mins for me.

BoatMad

I'd suspect the high usage is around people making their commute home(i.e. rush hours). It would be interesting to see the usage profiles of the chargers. eCars will never release that I suppose.

sure its gets a little busier, but I often use the wifi in Cullenmore and work for several hours through rush hour, I see a few leafs come in but nothing dramatic

isnottheword

BoatMad wrote: »

The idea is a hanger that has your details. not quite as detailed as the image. You dont fill it out everytime, the idea being that your mobile is only displayed when you are charging

There are only a tiny number of chargebump users, so that method is fairly useless IMHO

Its a far better system than what you're proposing...and it's only being deemed useless as people are not installing it. I'm giving folk an incentive to install it - as if you want me to shift, you will HAVE to install the app - end of.

KCross - take down your mobile number - if they want to contact you, they can install the app. That's the only way we coax people into using it.

cros13

CCS in Urlingford is back up according to the map...

Only took 13 months!

cros13

cros13 wrote: »

CCS in Urlingford is back up according to the map...

Only took 13 months!

Maybe somebody from ecars is here, hello ;-)