Could Neymar overtake Messi...

Doctor Jimbob

50 posts for a thread that could have been answered with "no".

Irish_rat

fryup wrote: »

....as the greatest ever??

he was sublime tonight, and he is yet to reach his peak physically & technically.

:pac:

Neymar is good but will he ever win a Ballon D'or?

Charizard

~Rebel~ wrote: »

But the point being discussed is literally just that - the argument is that Maradona dragged his team to win the world cup - well he had someone else putting away the chances. Messi didn't. The chances were made, but the striker couldn't finish.

Maradona didn't score in that final. Burruchaga put away his chance to win the match. Higuain didn't. And thats the difference between how many world cups each player has.

As you say, there are fine lines which can go either way, which is why I don't think the world cup win versus the world cup loss is an argument for either players merit.

Buts its a idiotic way of thinking, why not blame Palacio, the reason cause hes not a superstar striker who people know. Did Messi not have a chance in the game, why not blame him, because he cant be blamed for anything it has to be Higuain.

I agree a world cup cant be used as a insult towards Messi, but it is definitely a argument for Maradonna. Players get rated on there successes, Maradonnas has been far more successful at international level than Messi and vice versa in the league. Even though Maradonna winning the league for Napoli was amazing

~Rebel~

Charizard wrote: »

Buts its a idiotic way of thinking, why not blame Palacio, the reason cause hes not a superstar striker who people know. Did Messi not have a chance in the game, why not blame him, because he cant be blamed for anything it has to be Higuain.

I agree a world cup cant be used as a insult towards Messi, but it is definitely a argument for Maradonna. Players get rated on there successes, Maradonnas has been far more successful at international level than Messi and vice versa in the league. Even though Maradonna winning the league for Napoli was amazing

Brilliant. Nice one.

I'm simply pointing out the very obvious fact that to win a match you need those around you to also do their jobs. On the day, they did for Maradona, and didn't for Messi.

The reason i'm pointing out Higuain rather than Palacio is 'cause Higuain is the one that was clear through on goal, 1 v 1 with the keeper, and put it wide... it was the chance of the game, and one which a good striker should be scoring - or at very least putting on target 95% of the time. Alas Higuain has had similar misses in 3 consecutive international finals.

Charizard

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Brilliant. Nice one.

I'm simply pointing out the very obvious fact that to win a match you need those around you to also do their jobs. On the day, they did for Maradona, and didn't for Messi.

The reason i'm pointing out Higuain rather than Palacio is 'cause Higuain is the one that was clear through on goal, 1 v 1 with the keeper, and put it wide... it was the chance of the game, and one which a good striker should be scoring - or at very least putting on target 95% of the time. Alas Higuain has had similar misses in 3 consecutive international finals.

Palacio chance where he tried to lob the goalie seems to be ignored everytime this conversation is brought up. As are Messi's chances. Any striker can miss chances. Its crazy to put blame on one player. Its every player on that teams fault including Messi. Now I dont think the blame Messi gets is understandable in the same way I dont think its Higuians fault. They win as a team and lose as one

~Rebel~

Charizard wrote: »

Palacio chance where he tried to lob the goalie seems to be ignored everytime this conversation is brought up. As are Messi's chances. Any striker can miss chances. Its crazy to put blame on one player. Its every player on that teams fault including Messi. Now I dont think the blame Messi gets is understandable in the same way I dont think its Higuians fault. They win as a team and lose as one

Had forgotten it too to be honest - it only adds to my argument though...my argument isn't anti Higuain, it's again, simply saying you need the others on your team to do stuff too. I'm sure Maradona missed chances in the 86 final too, but his teammates did the business. Messi's didn't. And so either ones success or failures were not determined entirely by their own value. And so it seems silly to me to use something like that as a determining factor, when Messi has actually gotten to 3 international finals in 3 years. his teammates haven't scored a single goal in those 3 finals.

Charizard

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Had forgotten it too to be honest - it only adds to my argument though...my argument isn't anti Higuain, it's again, simply saying you need the others on your team to do stuff too. I'm sure Maradona missed chances in the 86 final too, but his teammates did the business. Messi's didn't. And so either ones success or failures were not determined entirely by their own value. And so it seems silly to me to use something like that as a determining factor, when Messi has actually gotten to 3 international finals in 3 years. his teammates haven't scored a single goal in those 3 finals.

Neither has he, for a player considered the greatest of all time, would you not think he would have scored in at least one. Instead the blame is passed onto Higuain a easy target, due to the fact hes so dominant at club level. The fact you forgot about Palacio shows how people only choose to remember what they want to, ignoring facts that are in plain view. I dont think either of us are disagreeing in the main that international football failures should be held against Messi.
I will say though using the logic youre using, none of Messis success should be counted for him taking into account hes not scoring all the goals, hes terrible at defence, I can imagine hed make a terrible goal keeper etc etc.
Youre argument does sound anti-Higuain tbh, the fact that you forget or forgive other misses states this, perhaps inaccurately, its how Im reading it

You realise how much people have forgotten this but slate Gonzalo for example, Higuains was a far more difficult chance

GavRedKing

Had Eder being Argentine, Messi would be a World champion and back to back Copa America champion.

Fine margains.

Anyway original question, the answer is no, never.

Charizard

GavRedKing wrote: »

Had Eder being Argentine, Messi would be a World champion and back to back Copa America champion.

Fine margains.

Anyway original question, the answer is no, never.

Your drastically under rating Eder imo :pac: