Lissenhall/Donabate interchange cycle lanes/paths.

Domo40plus

I have done a lot of cycling over the years. And back in the 80s there were hardly any cycle lanes. So when I see a good one not being used by cyclists, especially the one at Lissenhall/Donabate interchange it makes my blood boil.
I know that there are many cycle lanes that are terrible and even dangerous to use. And I too, like most well-seasoned cyclists with years of cycling and thousands of KMs done, don’t use them. But trust me it is only a fool that doesn’t use most or all of the cycle lane at this interchange. You see these guys coming along and then missing the entry point which is good, then breaking the lights and then holding up the traffic. These fools only give us all a bad name. these fools send a signal to the powers that be that it is not worth building a good cycle lane as people don’t use them.
I met one chap a few years ago cycling beside a good hard shoulder. I know at times a good surface clear of dirt can be hard to find. But this guy just tars all hard shoulders with the same brush. If drivers tar us all with the same brush and consider us the same as all the very poor cyclists out there, we’re in for it.
So if you have a brain, us it. Assess the hard shoulder or cycle lane and if it is good. Use it!

Wishbone Ash

Domo40plus wrote: »

... So when I see a good one not being used by cyclists, especially the one at Lissenhall/Donabate interchange it makes my blood boil....

What is 'good' about that subway?

There is no requirement to use a hard shoulder. A cycle is a vehicle under road traffic legislation and vehicles are expected to use the roadway.

buffalo

Domo40plus wrote: »

So if you have a brain, us it. Assess the hard shoulder or cycle lane and if it is good. Use it!

How do you propose one assesses a cycle lane? My criteria for a 'good' cycle lane:
- no parked cars
- no skips
- no pedestrians/dog-walkers/joggers
- no yielding to side roads
- no having to cross at pedestrian lights which take an age to change
- no encroaching bushes
- no glass nor grit (recently swept clean)
- doesn't end by dumping me back into motor traffic without warning
- no potholes
- space to safely overtake slower cyclists

Is there a way to check for all these in advance before using the cycle lane you mention?

ted1

Domo40plus wrote: »

I have done a lot of cycling over the years. And back in the 80s there were hardly any cycle lanes. So when I see a good one not being used by cyclists, especially the one at Lissenhall/Donabate interchange it makes my blood boil.
I know that there are many cycle lanes that are terrible and even dangerous to use. And I too, like most well-seasoned cyclists with years of cycling and thousands of KMs done, don’t use them. But trust me it is only a fool that doesn’t use most or all of the cycle lane at this interchange. You see these guys coming along and then missing the entry point which is good, then breaking the lights and then holding up the traffic. These fools only give us all a bad name. these fools send a signal to the powers that be that it is not worth building a good cycle lane as people don’t use them.
I met one chap a few years ago cycling beside a good hard shoulder. I know at times a good surface clear of dirt can be hard to find. But this guy just tars all hard shoulders with the same brush. If drivers tar us all with the same brush and consider us the same as all the very poor cyclists out there, we’re in for it.
So if you have a brain, us it. Assess the hard shoulder or cycle lane and if it is good. Use it!

How does a cyclists know that the hard shoulder ahead is clear ? Aldo cyclists are traffic so should be on the road not riding in the ditch.

SwissToni

I'm a fool so.

Carawaystick

Domo40plus wrote: »

I have done a lot of cycling over the years. And back in the 80s there were hardly any cycle lanes. So when I see a good one not being used by cyclists, especially the one at Lissenhall/Donabate interchange it makes my blood boil.

What is good about it? It is not swept,
it is not gritted in frosty weather,
it has off camber bends,
it has poor visibility and no yield signage at the hearse road junction,
it has a kerb onto the lane heading to Swords at a very shallow angle with the risk of crashing,
it has a very tight turn heading away from Swords crossing the exit off the M1S,
it is not signed as a cycle lane on the bridge,
there is no white line to mark it as a cycle lane and not a standard footpath,
there is no cycle lane to get from Swords to the Hearse road,
the cycle lane to the underpass under the M1N offslip has a big warning sign to turn back and not use the track,
the nra park their vehicles on the lane when it suits them, forcing cyclists use the road anyway

Domo40plus wrote: »

So if you have a brain, us it. Assess the hard shoulder or cycle lane and if it is good. Use it!

Maybe it's not a good cycle lane, and people with a brain have used it and assessed the lane...

Roadhawk

buffalo wrote: »

How do you propose one assesses a cycle lane? My criteria for a 'good' cycle lane:
- no parked cars
- no skips
- no pedestrians/dog-walkers/joggers
- no yielding to side roads
- no having to cross at pedestrian lights which take an age to change
- no encroaching bushes
- no glass nor grit (recently swept clean)
- doesn't end by dumping me back into motor traffic without warning
- no potholes
- space to safely overtake slower cyclists

Is there a way to check for all these in advance before using the cycle lane you mention?

The same can be said about any main road...how can you be sure it is clear of all these obstacles before you use it? the truth is you cant.

The same applies on a main road as it does in a cycle lane...if there is a parked car in your way then reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so, when there is a skip in the way reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so, when there are pedestrians/joggers in the way reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so and so on. just use a bit of savvy to what is in front of you. Its not rocket science.

loudymacloud

That subway is only of any use if you are coming from Donabate or the old balriggan road and heading towards Swords. you do avoid any traffic heading onto the motorway.

But coming back from Swords to get to Donabate you need to be on the road and get into the correct lane, the outside right one. So those other subways/cycle lanes are not much use for someone there.

07Lapierre

Domo40plus wrote: »

I have done a lot of cycling over the years. And back in the 80s there were hardly any cycle lanes. So when I see a good one not being used by cyclists, especially the one at Lissenhall/Donabate interchange it makes my blood boil.
I know that there are many cycle lanes that are terrible and even dangerous to use. And I too, like most well-seasoned cyclists with years of cycling and thousands of KMs done, don’t use them. But trust me it is only a fool that doesn’t use most or all of the cycle lane at this interchange. You see these guys coming along and then missing the entry point which is good, then breaking the lights and then holding up the traffic. These fools only give us all a bad name. these fools send a signal to the powers that be that it is not worth building a good cycle lane as people don’t use them.
I met one chap a few years ago cycling beside a good hard shoulder. I know at times a good surface clear of dirt can be hard to find. But this guy just tars all hard shoulders with the same brush. If drivers tar us all with the same brush and consider us the same as all the very poor cyclists out there, we’re in for it.
So if you have a brain, us it. Assess the hard shoulder or cycle lane and if it is good. Use it!

I cycle that junction frequently. I don't break the lights and its quite possible to cycle through that junction along with motorised traffic. I see no reason to use the underpass.

Having said that, i do think the underpass is a good idea for anyone who is not comfortable or confident enough to cycle through the junction. e.s Parents with kids, elderly cyclists etc.

Domo40plus

All I'm saying is that you use common sense. Yeah I've used the Donabate Interchange going both ways and yes it is not fantastic going north as you come up against pedestrian lights that never change. But use common sense, can’t you head on if it is safe, instead of not using it at all and pissing off drivers on the bridge over the Motorway. Heading south is grand too, although it is very tempting to just head on and not use the last tunnel. Again common sense here works – if it is busy then use tunnel if not then don’t.
In relation to hard shoulders, you can use them on all L, R and N roads, the same as tractors or other slow moving vehicles. Nobody is allowed drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway, and of course you know that a cyclist isn’t allowed on a motorway. The rules of the road state that you can pull into the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to go by.

Lastly, the guy I talked about who was not using the good clean hard shoulder and slowing traffic, well after explaining to him the pros and cons and listening to his silly argument. I said to him that he must not be much of a cyclist if he can’t use the hard should or any other part of the road. He then tried to pull away from me so I blow him out the back door. It is the best way to show this part time cyclists who think they alone own the roads and don’t share it with others.

Wishbone Ash

Domo40plus wrote: »

All I'm saying is that you use common sense. ....

That's why people are reluctant to do what you wish - they're using common sense.

buffalo

Roadhawk wrote: »

The same can be said about any main road...how can you be sure it is clear of all these obstacles before you use it? the truth is you cant.

The same applies on a main road as it does in a cycle lane...if there is a parked car in your way then reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so, when there is a skip in the way reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so, when there are pedestrians/joggers in the way reduce speed and over take when it is safe to do so and so on. just use a bit of savvy to what is in front of you. Its not rocket science.

I use savvy alright - I've never come across a skip left blocking the entire width of a road, so I use those.

Domo40plus

All I'm saying is that you use common sense. Yeah I've used the Donabate Interchange going both ways and yes it is not fantastic going north as you come up against pedestrian lights that never change. But use common sense, can’t you head on if it is safe, instead of not using it at all and pissing off drivers on the bridge over the Motorway. Heading south is grand too, although it is very tempting to just head on and not use the last tunnel. Again common sense here works – if it is busy then use tunnel if not then don’t.
In relation to hard shoulders, you can use them on all L, R and N roads, the same as tractors or other slow moving vehicles. Nobody is allowed drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway, and of course you know that a cyclist isn’t allowed on a motorway. The rules of the road state that you can pull into the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to go by.

Lastly, the guy I talked about who was not using the good clean hard shoulder and slowing traffic, well after explaining to him the pros and cons and listening to his silly argument. I said to him that he must not be much of a cyclist if he can’t use the hard shoulder or any other part of the road. He then tried to pull away from me so I blew him out the back door. It is the best way to show this part time cyclists who thinks they alone own the roads and don’t share it with others.

couerdelion

Domo40plus wrote: »

All I'm saying is that you use common sense. Yeah I've used the Donabate Interchange going both ways and yes it is not fantastic going north as you come up against pedestrian lights that never change. But use common sense, can’t you head on if it is safe, instead of not using it at all and pissing off drivers on the bridge over the Motorway. Heading south is grand too, although it is very tempting to just head on and not use the last tunnel. Again common sense here works – if it is busy then use tunnel if not then don’t.

What you are actually saying is that if cyclists dont do what you think they should then they are wrong.

In relation to hard shoulders, you can use them on all L, R and N roads, the same as tractors or other slow moving vehicles. Nobody is allowed drive on the hard shoulder of a motorway, and of course you know that a cyclist isn’t allowed on a motorway. The rules of the road state that you can pull into the hard shoulder to allow faster moving traffic to go by.

Hard shoulders are not part of the maintained roadway. If there is an obstruction which often there is then a cyclist has to try and merge into traffic. If he is in the roaddway he is part of the traffic.

Lastly... so I blew him out the back door.

Dogging?

SwissToni

Domo40plus wrote: »

Yeah I've used the Donabate Interchange going both ways and yes it is not fantastic going north as you come up against pedestrian lights that never change. But use common sense, can’t you head on if it is safe.

I'm confused, so now your saying its alright to break a Red Light, so am I still a fool.
I need to know,😀

Beasty

Domo40plus wrote: »

Lastly, the guy I talked about who was not using the good clean hard shoulder and slowing traffic

You talking about the hard shoulder that was in such a poor state of repair a few years back that FingalCoCo paid me compensation after suffering a concussion and requiring a skin graft around my eye after coming off?

Now I do use that hard shoulder still, when motor vehicles are not parked on it, but there are still one or two areas that require caution.

Dermot Illogical

The hard shoulder along there is in rag order.
Anyhoo, I'm a fool too. I don't use the underpass. I went through it once and decided it was cack.

Beasty

I have used those underpasses a few times and simply don't like them. They are certainly not the panacea the Council may want to make them out to be. Indeed I know a few guys who use the first part southbound then skip the second part by jumping off the kerb before the lights. I will consistently stick to the road in both directions now.

Southbound I know I can get across the motorway exit pretty much as quickly as motorised traffic from a standing start, and if rolling the speed the motorised traffic take round that first section is generally easy to maintain on a bike. The only issue I have is dangerous lane discipline form drivers - on one occasion before the new layout was introduced I had a driver taking the third lane and deciding to head SB on the M1, forcing me in the 2nd lane onto the sliproad. I've also had cars trying to squeeze me in lane 2 as they overtake just to then take the motorway turn.

I'm guessing these complaints, along with others we are now seeing in the forum, are down to the increased motorised traffic now the schools are back (compounded by bus strikes), and perhaps some frustration that cycling is often a more efficient way of travelling, and cyclists are there for motorists to take their frustrations out on when perhaps they could sometimes look a little closer to (their motorised) home(s).

Dermot Illogical

It makes me laugh when drivers complain about cyclists being in their way. It's not common to be held up for any length of time by someone on a bike, but the 10s of thousands of cars on the road ensure that any journey is delayed. But the finger of blame gets pointed at someone on a bike.
I will sometimes hear cars behind me and they're being held up. But not by me. They're held up by the driver immediately behind who misses 5 or 6 overtaking opportunities due to wrong speed/gear/position and a complete failure to see the opportunity. Still I know I'm the one being cursed.

Wishbone Ash

Beasty wrote: »

... I know a few guys who use the first part southbound then skip the second part by jumping off the kerb before the lights..

I use the first part and then simply wait until traffic coming up the slip road off the M1 has stopped and cross there beside the pedestrian crossing.

I use to not use it but I've been browbeaten in recent months by hostile motorists blowing me out of it for doing nothing wrong. And rolling down their windows and asking me if I realised how much the subway cost. FFS - I didn't ask for it.

(One puzzling thing though, hostility seems to be absent when wearing club gear - usually when wearing non-club gear).

Inquitus

I'll use it going South if the lights are red, and then hop off the curb onto the road when it spits you out, would never bother using it going North though.

NeedMoreGears

I'm a bit confused about this junction. If I'm heading south from the Blake's Cross direction, I can go into the underpass. It seems to pop me up onto a footpath and I then drop onto the road before the lights as Beasty describes above. Is there another bit of tunnel I am missing?

I don't really like the junction at all as two roundabouts featuring entry and exit points from a motorway means you really need you wits about you and be quite clear and assertive about road positioning. I'm happy enough to use the tunnel but I only use the junction two or three times a year.

Wishbone Ash

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about this junction. If I'm heading south from the Blake's Cross direction, I can go into the underpass. It seems to pop me up onto a footpath and I then drop onto the road before the lights as Beasty describes above. Is there another bit of tunnel I am missing?.

After the footpath bit, you can then keep left and follow the loop back down again and under the sliproad - brings you back out on the south side of the junction.

Domo40plus

No not a fool Swisstoni, at all. There is no right no wrong. But only a lot of grey areas here. I'm not telling anyone to go through a red or amber light on the road. But as we all have done, as pedestrians we have crossed the road before the green man was there. Just saying be considerate and if we can stop pissing off silly drivers, it makes the roads safer for all of us

Domo40plus

couerdelion wrote: »

What you are actually saying is that if cyclists dont do what you think they should then they are wrong.



Hard shoulders are not part of the maintained roadway. If there is an obstruction which often there is then a cyclist has to try and merge into traffic. If he is in the roaddway he is part of the traffic.



Dogging?

Yeah, as I say cycling on average 50 miles a day in the 80's and would be a regular 100km for a spin now. I've seen it all and usually the guys that have the chips on the shoulder about the hard shoulders are the low millers or inexperienced ones.

couerdelion

Domo40plus wrote: »

Yeah, as I say cycling on average 50 miles a day in the 80's and would be a regular 100km for a spin now. I've seen it all and usually the guys that have the chips on the shoulder about the hard shoulders are the low millers or inexperienced ones.

Yeah, that'll be me.

Inquitus

Domo40plus wrote: »

Yeah, as I say cycling on average 50 miles a day in the 80's and would be a regular 100km for a spin now. I've seen it all and usually the guys that have the chips on the shoulder about the hard shoulders are the low millers or inexperienced ones.

Some hard shoulders are in rag order, some are grand, I'll happily ride on a hard shoulder that's in good nick, if its rough and covered in debris, then no thanks, I'll stay in the lane.

07Lapierre

Inquitus wrote: »

Some hard shoulders are in rag order, some are grand, I'll happily ride on a hard shoulder that's in good nick, if its rough and covered in debris, then no thanks, I'll stay in the lane.

I think that's called using a bit of common sense.

Carawaystick

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about this junction. If I'm heading south from the Blake's Cross direction, I can go into the underpass. It seems to pop me up onto a footpath and I then drop onto the road before the lights as Beasty describes above. Is there another bit of tunnel I am missing?

I don't really like the junction at all as two roundabouts featuring entry and exit points from a motorway means you really need you wits about you and be quite clear and assertive about road positioning. I'm happy enough to use the tunnel but I only use the junction two or three times a year.

See here the second tunnel southbound is shown. I don't use this, but use the crossing to the triangular bit, and down the ramp to the hard shoulder.



I've just moved the map to see the approach to the cycle lane form the Hearse road :eek:

P_1

Used that subway once going north and it was a nightmare so now I just take the lane on the road. You easily hold pace with the traffic (they're slowing as it is a traffic light junction as it is).

Besides the best way going north is via the Naul road and the Nags Head.

Roadhawk

So ultimately this is more infrastructure that will go unused...what a waste