Electric bike - 80 mile per day commute

Dinging

with a top speed of 45kph is astounding but this guy does it every day https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/14/e-bikes-long-distance-commuting-speed-pedelec-electric-cycles Anyone here any experience with an e bike? due to an injury I am unable to cycle as much as I would like but would be tempted by one of these assuming they weren't mad money. Is there any insurance or other requirements as technically this is mechanically propelled.

Danbo!

Visions of the not too distant future for me I've bad lower back pain I can't get on top of and it tends to flare up on the third day in a row of commuting. I try to work from home one day a week to break it up but dear god I hate the bus. Never considered something like this as an option.

ted1

The limit for Ebikes is 25kph,anything that goes over that is not street legal

Beasty

Think there are limits of 250w and 25kph in Ireland. If it's capable of powering at more you would need it licensed.

Dinging

knew it was too good to be true. With insurance prices sky rocketing and due to the same next year anything over the 25kph would be cost prohibitive.

del_boy13

I met a guy last summer who was using an ebike to cycle from the Naul to the city centre just under 35km in for him. He was bombing along at over 30 kph but I haven't seen him in a while but my start and finish times have changed since then. He was getting in and out on a full charge at the time. I used to draft behind him when I met him so the speed was definitely over 30kph.

Beasty

And he'll probably get away with it.....

....until something goes wrong. Say he's involved in an accident and is found to be "driving" something that's illegal and uninsured

fat bloke

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Motorcyclists are supposed to be restricted to 33bhp for two years after their tests. Very very few comply cos it's not policed, it's simple to remove the restriction and difficult to determine post accident how the bike was running pre-accident. Ditto for cars. The amount of turbo diesels and petrol out there that have been remapped to produce an extra 20-30% in power is massive. Again not policed and difficult to.
From what I understand of the ebikes, it's just a software plugin and remap. Bet your a$$ the same and more is available for electric cars from your Nissan Leaf to your Tesla Model S.

It's been going on for years. It just hasn't appeared on the Liveline or Morning Ireland radar yet. Though I'm sure it will eventually, and inevitably .

Bigus

Beasty wrote: »

Think there are limits of 250w and 25kph in Ireland. If it's capable of powering at more you would need it licensed.

Can you quote the legislation ? Think doesn't cut it in court.

Don't assume EU law applies here just because our parliament hasn't dealth with this legislation yet.

45 Kmh bikes are on sale here in Ireland from reputable dealers who will continue to sell them as they can't get an answer from DOE as to the status , and haven't been told by DOE to stop.

IE there's no difference in Ireland between a 25 and 45 Kmh ebike IN LAW,

so 25 Kmh bikes are equally as illegal as 45 Kmh bikes and vice versa 45 are as legal as 25 Kmh ebikes or dare I say it even 65 Kmh ebikes but faster ones are not generally available on sale in Ireland.

So I'd say work away legally on the faster bikes until the law states otherwise, after all 45kmh (28 mph) is nothing on a road bike so where's the problem once riders are responsible .

listermint

128 km a day.

You'd get bored of that pretty quickly electric or no electric forget the legality.

Even on a proper motorbike that would not be fun.

I think you need to give stuff more thought.

ted1

Bigus wrote: »

Can you quote the legislation ? Think doesn't cut it in court.

Don't assume EU law applies here just because our parliament hasn't dealth with this legislation yet.

45 Kmh bikes are on sale here in Ireland from reputable dealers who will continue to sell them as they can't get an answer from DOE as to the status , and haven't been told by DOE to stop.

IE there's no difference in Ireland between a 25 and 45 Kmh ebike IN LAW,

so 25 Kmh bikes are equally as illegal as 45 Kmh bikes and vice versa 45 are as legal as 25 Kmh ebikes or dare I say it even 65 Kmh ebikes but faster ones are not generally available on sale in Ireland.

So I'd say work away legally on the faster bikes until the law states otherwise, after all 45kmh (28 mph) is nothing on a road bike so where's the problem once riders are responsible .

The law states that the motor can't exceed 25kph, 250W and the motor can only be in use when pedalling and there can't be a throttle.
There clearly is s difference between 25 and 45

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/08/transport-minister-questioned-on-powerful-electric-bicycles/

godtabh

Beasty wrote: »

Think there are limits of 250w and 25kph in Ireland. If it's capable of powering at more you would need it licensed.

does that make you illegal?

If you go above that is it classed as a motor bike?

robyntmorton

I will need to dig through the statute book for the specific law, but see the linked from Irish Cycle where it was brought up by Clare Daly in the Dail, quoting

To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has considered increasing the speed limits for electric pedelecs from 15 mph (25 km/h) and increasing the engine size to above 250 watts in view of the fact that the current limits were set in 1978.

http://irishcycle.com/2015/07/08/transport-minister-questioned-on-powerful-electric-bicycles/

It is also to be noted that this is for pedalec's only (IE pedal with electric assist), and not twist and go, where there is a throttle and pedalling is not required. If pedalling is not required it is a mechanically propelled vehicle, and thus all licencing etc. laws apply.

Beasty

godtabh wrote: »

does that make you illegal?

If you go above that is it classed as a motor bike?

Or moped

Don't claim to be any expert but am repeating what has been posted numerous times in this forum

On the EU law point Bigus, maybe you should have a word with Apple, as that news may well save them €13bn

ted1

Here's the si that enforces the EU directive

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2005/si/412/made/en/print

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32002L0024

Article 1 h

boardbeer

del_boy13 wrote: »

I met a guy last summer who was using an ebike to cycle from the Naul to the city centre just under 35km in for him. He was bombing along at over 30 kph but I haven't seen him in a while but my start and finish times have changed since then.

That's happened to me several times, now: an ebike appears on my route (I bust a gut chasing it down before I figure out its electric), it's there every day for a month or so, and then vanishes. I've wondered what puts them off? Get complacent and scare themselves?

2x4

I read somewhere that ebikes will account for half of all bike sales within five years. So we better get used to them!

pm9999

The missus and I are 60 ish and cycle (conventional bikes) about 3000km each year. The older we get, the more bits of us fail, and it's a certainty that we won't be able to keep this up. A while ago, we rented 2 reasonably high spec Kalkhoff e bikes for the day. The rental shop gave us a suggested route (around Lough Allen, County Leitrim) of about 80km. We ended up doing about 90km in the day due to, ahem, navigational discrepancies. The bikes were great, making headwinds and hills things to be laughed at. We had used them only on 1st and 2nd level assist to conserve battery. At the half way point of our circuit, we both had 2/3rds battery left, so cranked them up for the return. The assist drops off at the 25kmh mark, but you fly getting to that point. Back at the shop, both bikes still had almost 50% battery remaining. The technologies (motor efficiency and battery storage capacity) are improving all the time. At some point in the (hopefully distant) future, there will definitely be a couple of e bikes in our shed. I have my eye on the (German) Haibike range, but they ain't cheap. I'm too much of a newbie here to post links, but just Google "ebikecycletourists" to read about some of the capabilities.

V-man

Dinging wrote: »

with a top speed of 45kph is astounding. Anyone here any experience with an e bike? due to an injury I am unable to cycle as much as I would like but would be tempted by one of these assuming they weren't mad money. Is there any insurance or other requirements as technically this is mechanically propelled.

Pedelec up to 25km/h, 250 Watt engine
Speed Pedelec ,aka Spedelec, up to 45km/h, 350 watt+ engine.

Most modern e-bikes will use a Bosch or Yamaha 350 watt mid drive, both are very sophisticated and use multiple sensors to add force to your own input. Front wheel engines are a thing from the past however in certain cases it makes sense to have a rear wheel engine (speed pedelec). Another option would be to modify/convert an existing bike with a (chinese) Bafang mid-drive, these go from 250 watt up to 750 Watt+.

One big misunderstanding about speed spedelec's is the speed, you have to be pretty fit to keep an average speed of 35km/h+ let alone hitting 45 km/h.
Why? The faster you go the more energy you require from the battery and, with current technology, will be empty within one hour.
And the good ones are not exactly cheap.

I would be more worried about these cheap bikes with moped engines.

thierry14

Where can you buy these 500watt+ plus bikes?

na1

thierry14 wrote: »

Where can you buy these 500watt+ plus bikes?

ebay?

V-man

thierry14 wrote: »

Where can you buy these 500watt+ plus bikes?

Search on Bafang kit, many reviews and instructions on google.
Be aware of customs and that you are not street legal.
You will also require proper (disc) brakes.

elperello

pm9999 wrote: »

The missus and I are 60 ish and cycle (conventional bikes) about 3000km each year. The older we get, the more bits of us fail, and it's a certainty that we won't be able to keep this up. A while ago, we rented 2 reasonably high spec Kalkhoff e bikes for the day. The rental shop gave us a suggested route (around Lough Allen, County Leitrim) of about 80km. We ended up doing about 90km in the day due to, ahem, navigational discrepancies. The bikes were great, making headwinds and hills things to be laughed at. We had used them only on 1st and 2nd level assist to conserve battery. At the half way point of our circuit, we both had 2/3rds battery left, so cranked them up for the return. The assist drops off at the 25kmh mark, but you fly getting to that point. Back at the shop, both bikes still had almost 50% battery remaining. The technologies (motor efficiency and battery storage capacity) are improving all the time. At some point in the (hopefully distant) future, there will definitely be a couple of e bikes in our shed. I have my eye on the (German) Haibike range, but they ain't cheap. I'm too much of a newbie here to post links, but just Google "ebikecycletourists" to read about some of the capabilities.

This is the place you are talking about http://www.electricbiketrails.com/
A great chance to get an extended trial of an electric bike before taking the plunge and investing in one one.The scenery is a bonus.

Jawgap

This thread got me thinking.....

......and googling.....

I'm not affiliated in any way with the company - http://www.greenaer.ie/ - but some of those bikes look pretty ok!!

Me, I'm waiting until they shrink the technology enough so it fits in the downtube of a 'normal' bike

2x4

Jawgap wrote: »

This thread got me thinking.....

......and googling.....

I'm not affiliated in any way with the company - http://www.greenaer.ie/ - but some of those bikes look pretty ok!!

Me, I'm waiting until they shrink the technology enough so it fits in the downtube of a 'normal' bike

They are getting very close to typical road bikes. Giant introduced this https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-ie/bikes/model/road.e.1/25099/90807/ road ebike this summer.

I am very tempted.

mjsc1970

2x4 wrote: »

They are getting very close to typical road bikes. Giant introduced this https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-ie/bikes/model/road.e.1/25099/90807/ road ebike this summer.

I am very tempted.

Looks cool.....but a price to match

cajonlardo

2x4 wrote: »

They are getting very close to typical road bikes. Giant introduced this https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-ie/bikes/model/road.e.1/25099/90807/ road ebike this summer.

I am very tempted.

Hmmm, you will be VERY Tempted with this
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/177711-dont-tell-wilier-but%E2%80%A6%C2%A0dutch-shop-sells-wilier-cross-bikes-vivax-hidden

and https://www.salden.nl/en/bikes-and-frames/roadracing/e-roadbikes.html

loyatemu

you can do 45km/h+ on an unpowered bike, perfectly legal. why is it illegal on an ebike? the weight of the bike might be slightly more, but the overall kinetic energy would be more affected by the weight of the rider - 100kg guy on a 15kg bike is heavier than a 50kg woman on a 30kg ebike. requiring them to be registered and licensed as motorbikes seems overkill - mbikes are much heavier.