Ideal ram for Suffolk x mule ewes

Lanark

What is the ideal ram for Suffolk x mules for nice ewe lambs that will sell well in the mart and also ram lambs that weight well. Thanks

charolais0153

Lanark wrote: »

What is the ideal ram for Suffolk x mules for nice ewe lambs that will sell well in the mart and also ram lambs that weight well. Thanks

Texel would be your ram I'd say.

Future Farmer

Texel.

That said Charolais might be an option either.

Username John

Future Farmer wrote: »

Texel.

That said Charolais might be an option either.

Wouldn't keep Charolais ewes... There was another thread last week about this... I only ever had a few of em, but nearly all turned out to be more hassle than they were worth...

stantheman1979

Texal would give you the best of both worlds

Future Farmer

Username John wrote: »

Wouldn't keep Charolais ewes... There was another thread last week about this... I only ever had a few of em, but nearly all turned out to be more hassle than they were worth...

I misunderstood you, thought you were talking about a terminal sire.

I wouldn't keep Suffolk x Mule ewes, personally but if I had them I would only kill any of their progeny, and would not keep any replacements off of them.

Lanark

Future Farmer wrote: »

Username John wrote: »

Wouldn't keep Charolais ewes... There was another thread last week about this... I only ever had a few of em, but nearly all turned out to be more hassle than they were worth...

I misunderstood you, thought you were talking about a terminal sire.

I wouldn't keep Suffolk x Mule ewes, personally but if I had them I would only kill any of their progeny, and would not keep any replacements off of them.

Why

Farrell

Lanark wrote: »

Why

+1
I've Suffolk mule ewes & am happy enough

stantheman1979

Because you defeat the purpose of the mule by keeping the offspring. They won't have the good points of the mule. Mules are bred to rear fat lambs not for breeding replacements

charolais0153

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Because you defeat the purpose of the mule by keeping the offspring. They won't have the good points of the mule. Mules are bred to rear fat lambs not for breeding replacements

Mules are bred to be hardy sheep with good mothering ability that rear their lambs on their own without assistance , I thought

Future Farmer

Agree with Stan.

What can you use on a Suffolk x Mule that would compete with a Mule's lamb?

Wouldn't keep anything off a Speckled Face either.

For me:

Texels and Charolais' are my terminal Rams of choice.

Ewes: mules, hornys, speckled face & Kerry hills.

I am based in Wicklow.

Farrell

Future Farmer wrote: »

Agree with Stan.

What can you use on a Suffolk x Mule that would compete with a Mule's lamb?

Wouldn't keep anything off a Speckled Face either.

For me:

Texels and Charolais' are my terminal Rams of choice.

Ewes: mules, hornys, speckled face & Kerry hills.

I am based in Wicklow.

Crossed Suffolk on Suffolk X Mules.
To me the Mule is like the LMxBF cow, a good foundation

stantheman1979

Mules hardy!! I don't think so!! Its hard enough to keep them on good ground and get longer than 4 yrs outta them. I've never seen any on the hills for good reason!! We would make good money selling tex and suff ewe lambs from them but would very rarely keep replacements from them for ourselves.

Farrell

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Mules hardy!! I don't think so!! Its hard enough to keep them on good ground and get longer than 4 yrs outta them. I've never seen any on the hills for good reason!! We would make good money selling tex and suff ewe lambs from them but would very rarely keep replacements from them for ourselves.

If mules are that bad, would it not be best to cross the horney with Terminal like Texal / Beltex

stantheman1979

They're not bad. They're great sheep to rear lambs as fat stock on low ground. A lot of fellas are crossing the horney with texals for the hiltex as it's impossible to fatten the mule ram lambs.

Sheepman1

Have to agree with Stan here
Firstly u start with any hard mountain breed: mayo, Lanark, Perth, swale, cheviot, Welsh, belauh, etc
And u cross these with either leicester or more recently blue face Leicester and of course your modern Leicester in order to get ur mule ewe so that u can cross with either the texel or Suffolk to get your supposedly ultimate terminal lamb producer.
The texel or Suffolk mule aren't designed for producing ewe lambs for breeding.
IMO a good beltexXcharley ram is the most efficient terminal sire for these ewes

stantheman1979

Also the majority of mules in Ireland come from the west and are bred from Mayo ewes!! There's the 1st problem!! I worked in a place in England that had the good north of england mules bred from the swale dale. Crossed them to char and Hampshire rams. They all had twins. We were selling lambs at 11 weeks 45kgs!! Super sheep to rear lambs

orm0nd

have kept first and second x off mayo mule and have no complaints

usually suffolk first x and then texel ,

keeping a closed flock now but still a lot of mayo mule blood in the back breeding

White Clover

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Also the majority of mules in Ireland come from the west and are bred from Mayo ewes!! There's the 1st problem!! I worked in a place in England that had the good north of england mules bred from the swale dale. Crossed them to char and Hampshire rams. They all had twins. We were selling lambs at 11 weeks 45kgs!! Super sheep to rear lambs

Some great work done by NEMSA. Are there many/any swaledale sheep on the hills this side of the Irish Sea?

Green farmer

stantheman1979 wrote: »

Also the majority of mules in Ireland come from the west and are bred from Mayo ewes!! There's the 1st problem!! I worked in a place in England that had the good north of england mules bred from the swale dale. Crossed them to char and Hampshire rams. They all had twins. s

That's the difference between here and England. The hill farmer specialised in breeding proper mules. These are then sold to the lowland farmer, who can get on with the business of producing butchers lambs. None of the offspring are kept. If you want more breeding ewes, you go back to the mule breeder hill farmer, year after year. The same links don't exist here,

stantheman1979

Green farmer wrote: »

That's the difference between here and England. The hill farmer specialised in breeding proper mules. These are then sold to the lowland farmer, who can get on with the business of producing butchers lambs. None of the offspring are kept. If you want more breeding ewes, you go back to the mule breeder hill farmer, year after year. The same links don't exist here,

No i fully agree with you but the problem is the large amounts of hill breeders in england have swales or perth type that produce excellent quality mules so they are easily found. The majority of Irish mules are from mayo horneys which are no where near as good as a swale or a perth type ewe.So we have neither the quality or the quantity

stantheman1979

orm0nd wrote: »

have kept first and second x off mayo mule and have no complaints

usually suffolk first x and then texel ,

keeping a closed flock now but still a lot of mayo mule blood in the back breeding

The 2nd X would be grand there isnt much mayo left in them by that stage. You basically have a suffolk X texal

Farrell

stantheman1979 wrote: »

The 2nd X would be grand there isnt much mayo left in them by that stage. You basically have a suffolk X texal

With milk & good mother

razor8

stantheman1979 wrote: »

They're not bad. They're great sheep to rear lambs as fat stock on low ground. A lot of fellas are crossing the horney with texals for the hiltex as it's impossible to fatten the mule ram lambs.

some guys selling mules are breeding from blue leicesters that have hog mouths which is a common problem with the breed and i think its the reasons some ewes go quick in the mouth

i breed my own replacements from lanark/swale x hornys and have to say i have no problems fattening mule ram lambs, they grow into big weights very fast IME

sheepfarmer92

We find the mules or greyfaces bred off the lanark ewe to have better fleshed lambs than the mayo mule, they are a thicker better built sheep, plus the 1st cross suffolk mule or texel mule is relatively good ewe but wouldnt keep ewe lambs off them, dad always reckoned u need abit of mountain blood in every ewe

stantheman1979

[quote
some guys selling mules are breeding from blue leicesters that have hog mouths which is a common problem with the breed and i think its the reasons some ewes go quick in the mouth

i breed my own replacements from lanark/swale x hornys and have to say i have no problems fattening mule ram lambs, they grow into big weights very fast IME[/quote]
Like I said there is huge variation between mules depending on what ewe u use. I wouldn't touch a mule from a mayo ewe. Too short, little spindly legs, little head but everyone to their own!

Future Farmer

Think this may be fairly regionalised.

I would deal with mules as an end product but that's just me.

Farrell the cows found to be the MOST profitable in Grange on last study - (before stars) were the LMxFR surpassing the SIxCH SIxLM and LMxCH on profitability.

Lanark

Future Farmer wrote: »

Texel.

That said Charolais might be an option either.

What about Suffolk?

Lanark

Sheepman1 wrote: »

Have to agree with Stan here
Firstly u start with any hard mountain breed: mayo, Lanark, Perth, swale, cheviot, Welsh, belauh, etc
And u cross these with either leicester or more recently blue face Leicester and of course your modern Leicester in order to get ur mule ewe so that u can cross with either the texel or Suffolk to get your supposedly ultimate terminal lamb producer.
The texel or Suffolk mule aren't designed for producing ewe lambs for breeding.
IMO a good beltexXcharley ram is the most efficient terminal sire for these ewes

Why not a Suffolk for their quick growth and surely the ewe lambs would sell excellently in the mart?

charolais0153

Lanark wrote: »

What about Suffolk?

I find that if you have a Suffolk ram on a Suffolk ewe you can get dopey, slow to suck lambs

Lanark

charolais0153 wrote: »

Lanark wrote: »

What about Suffolk?

I find that if you have a Suffolk ram on a Suffolk ewe you can get dopey, slow to suck lambs

Suffolk x mule aren't full Suffolk tho, they have some hill breed in them so would they not b ok?

stantheman1979

A Suffolk on a Suffolk X mule would be 3/4 suffolk. Too much for my liking

Lanark

stantheman1979 wrote: »

A Suffolk on a Suffolk X mule would be 3/4 suffolk. Too much for my liking

What about a 50/50 Suffolk x texel ram?

J.O. Farmer

Lanark wrote: »

What about a 50/50 Suffolk x texel ram?

He'd probably be a good sheep himself but I wouldn't be sure of what he'd breed. You'd want to be getting a ram who was genuinely 50/50 and not 37.5/37.5/12.5/6.25/6.25.

charolais0153

Lanark wrote: »

What about a 50/50 Suffolk x texel ram?

Don't see the benefit. And I can't imagine the heads would be too clean either.

Dickie10

has anyone ever bred blue leicster onto lleyn ewes? i breed lleyn ewe replacemenst and find their lambs start to get smaller becuase ewes are smaller. id like to bring more size into the ewe what would a lleyn mule be like?

Dickie10

there was a lad breeedinf lleyns from his suffolk mules and keeping replacements, he called them composite sheep

Suffolk crossed with blue leicster and their daughter suffolk mule crossed with lleyn

THE EWES WERE THEN: 1/4 suffolk 1/4 blue liescter 1/2 lleyn

Green farmer

Are you just using the wrong type of Lleyn ? I'm putting a wedge type one across my Lleyn x ewes, I'll let ye know how it turns out as my Lleyn x's were getting too small. Would a blue make them too soft ? Look why people are Moving from mules to Lleyns in the first place ? Wonder what one cross back to the Suffolk would bring ? Wranlger crosses them back to the texel when they go to far.

Green farmer

Here's the wedge shaped one (for a Lleyn anyway) I got this summer. Hoping he'll give me a slightly bigger lamb.

wrangler

Green farmer wrote: »

Are you just using the wrong type of Lleyn ? I'm putting a wedge type one across my Lleyn x ewes, I'll let ye know how it turns out as my Lleyn x's were getting too small. Would a blue make them too soft ? Look why people are Moving from mules to Lleyns in the first place ? Wonder what one cross back to the Suffolk would bring ? Wranlger crosses them back to the texel when they go to far.

We've never got nice lleyns out of suffolks, we had few suffolks when we started using Lleyn and they didn't suit. Be interesting to see what you think if you've any black sheep
You've a nice ram in the picture, hope he does the job, nice wool

Green farmer

wrangler wrote: »

We've never got nice lleyns out of suffolks, we had few suffolks when we started using Lleyn and they didn't suit. Be interesting to see what you think if you've any black sheep
You've a nice ram in the picture, hope he does the job, nice wool

Thanks, I've been trying to figure out the different types of lleyns and thought he was the way to continue them on, so fingers crossed he gives me nice lambs next spring. They'll will be 75% Lleyn, so might be looking to what to cross back to after that.

Dickie10

just throwing this out their but what would a cheviot ram do on 75% lleyn id imagine add good bit of size

Dickie10

i put my lleyns on cheviot ewes and the resulting lambs looked great