Wiggins/Froome Asthma

Leroy42

Sky are going to try to ride this out. Wiggo is gone so they are going to try to ignore it and any questions just fend people off to Wiggo.

And for the PR machine that will probably be enough. But, the whole marginal gains malarky is starting to become unravelled and questions are now starting to be asked. From 'we will never hire an ex doper", to "all the ex dopers we hire are reformed", from "we will never use TUE to "we only use TUE when absolutely necessary".

There is a very fine line between "I took drugs to help me win", to "I took drugs to help me compete with everyone else cause they were taking drugs" and now Wiggos "I took drugs to bring me back to my rightful level". Part of sport is managing preparation, injuries etc. If you can simply take a drug to get over any overtraining then simply keep training and a shot will sort you out. At what point should are inherent issues (asthma, low lung capacity, not enough power) be a curb on how good you can be. It seems I was born, (or lived my life!) with the inability to generate as much power to weight as others. Should I be allowed to take whatever drugs to bring me to a level playing field? It seems unfair that I am being held back from my potential by such a unfair disadvantage.

When you are looking at a series of 100 different tiny gains that add up to 10% if everyone of them goes right, or simply take this action to make sure nothing can go wrong, I know which one most bosses would go for, and at the end of the day Sky are in the business of winning

paddy no 11

If we had knowledge of who had TUE's the week of a race we'd all become more profitable gamblers!

Macy0161

PeadarCo wrote: »

Froome was honest. He'd previously admitted everything. Wiggins flat out lied about injections. There was no new news about Froome. He also refused a TUE in last year's Tour when he was sick. Probably due to the stink he knew it could cause if it ever became public.

He admitted to the previous one, after the Romandie one coming out due to proper procedure not being followed in the UCI. He didn't come clean at the time. And lets not forget his performance in that race either - he didn't just survive and get over it. It was a serious corticosteroid too, and it resulted in him putting in a serious performance.

Peist2007

PeadarCo wrote: »

Froome was honest. He'd previously admitted everything. Wiggins flat out lied about injections. There was no new news about Froome. He also refused a TUE in last year's Tour when he was sick. Probably due to the stink he knew it could cause if it ever became public.

But none of that excuses Sky. Sky knew that Wiggins took TUE's and they knew he then went on to say he never did. Sky are as complicit in Wiggins' case as Wiggins. Walsh's piece in the Sunday Times yesterday was an attempt to distance Sky from Wiggins.

It will all come eventually about Froome too. Mark my words.

PeadarCo

Peist2007 wrote:

But none of that excuses Sky. Sky knew that Wiggins took TUE's and they knew he then went on to say he never did. Sky are as complicit in Wiggins' case as Wiggins. Walsh's piece in the Sunday Times yesterday was an attempt to distance Sky from Wiggins.

I never said it did. I was responding to the fact why Wiggins has got so much more heat than Froome on this occasion.

My solution is as I mentioned was that TUEs should be public. I say the biggest reason behind Froome not taking the TUE was and is the history of questions he has to put up with. It also helped that he had a healthy lead in the race. He could have taken it and it would have been legal. But personally if your so sick to need a TUE to race you shouldn't be racing. For me its an example of public pressure having an effect.

ThisRegard

David Walsh will be on Newstalk after 6 to discuss the Marr/Wiggins interview, and Kimmage story.

highbury1913

1bryan wrote: »

wow, thats quite the statement. So you're happy to insert yourself into a friendship between these two, the dynamics of which you know nothing about, other than what is made public, and you feel like you have some kind of right to judge Kimmage for his part in ending the friendship?

wow. just, wow.

I didn't insert myself into anything. Kimmage publicised this fallout a couple of years ago in the Irish Indo. Spoke about his "ego" and how it's different with him compared to Walsh as it "runs deep" with him. This was where he said he was prepared to strain family relationships and friendships if people disagreed with him on doping. That was the first of many times he has spoken publicly about this. The week leading up to the Rough Ride film where he did multiple interviews on radio and elsewhere promoting it, he did so too. As he put this in the national media on numerous occasions and did so again over the weekend, people are entitled to comment on.

It's quite easy to judge Kimmage's part in ending his friendship with Walsh when he has clearly stated the reason with Sky as why he did so.

Walsh's reporting is not personal to Kimmage. This was his own reporting on his own accord. He has never said a bad word about Kimmage publicly and I find it hard to fathom how people see it as a personal dig to him. You may see inconsistencies, things you disagree with, or find faults with Walsh's work, but saying it was personally directed at him couldn't be further from the truth.

There is plenty to admire about Kimmage's work. The Daily Mail link provided earlier, Johannes Draaijer, Froome interview, Landis interview, etc. I just don't agree with him on this when he personalizes things as he done again here or even with Nico Roche who he is always singling out.

There is no wow about it.

highbury1913

I'm not in favour of TUEs being made public. I think it's a clear cut issue of medical privacy and it's irrelevant that they are athletes. You release these and it will create a social media frenzy and in that circumstance, no doubt you will get an innocent athlete with a genuine health issue who will still get mud thrown at them. That is not right.

You go for the reform of the system, address the TUE abuse and get a proper criteria in place for issuing these in the first place. Making it public is not the right way to go about it.

guanciale

What I have learned is that to be a friend with Kimmage you have to agree with what he agrees with in the manner that he agrees with.
Nice guy.

I do not care what he has done, for me as a journalist he has very little that is tolerable. He wants to be seen as someone who speaks truth to power, but he himself refuses to be challenged. He makes accusations but rarely provides evidence. In most professions you need more than gut instinct to prove a point thankfully. I guess the high standards Kimmage demands do not apply to him.

CatFromHue

ThisRegard wrote: »

David Walsh will be on Newstalk after 6 to discuss the Marr/Wiggins interview, and Kimmage story.

Arrrhhh

Kimmage has a slot on The Last Word after 6 too!

ThisRegard

CatFromHue wrote: »

Arrrhhh

Kimmage has a slot on The Last Word after 6 too!

It's like a couple who've had a falling out each running to their respective friends to talk about how they were in the right.

oconnpad

CatFromHue wrote: »

Arrrhhh

Kimmage has a slot on The Last Word after 6 too!

Same building different floor, imagine they end up in the lift together.

It would be like Harry Hill TV Burp "fight"

oconnpad

Also Dan Roan from BBC interviewed Brailsford as well

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/780444728252858369

Eamonnator

Cycling News has a lot of questions for Sir Dave.
I wonder how many will be answered this evening

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-sound-of-silence-brailsford-sky-and-the-questions-still-to-be-answered/

Trojan

Walsh on NT right now

pedro_colnago

Trojan wrote: »

Walsh on NT right now

David Walsh God he is a parasite
he wrote a book about sky and there marginal gains horse**** a couple of years ago and made money from it, now he will make more hounding them, he goes from fanboy to critic so many times, did the same with Roche, Armstrong and now wiggins. Is he naive or what????

ThisRegard

Well he did say he may have been duped.

happytramp

MPFGLB wrote: »

Kieran81 wrote: »

he isn't and it isn't

Of course there are clean riders in cycling ....but not in Kimmages world

Now you're being ridiculous. Kimmage has maintained all along that Dan Martin and many others are clean, it's them he's claiming to be crusading for.

groovyg

How can Walsh say he didn't know or might have been duped. He has never asked any hard questions of Sky over the years. Anyone who questioned him on Twitter about Sky and doping got blocked. It's starting to look like his whole bringing down of Armstrong was personal more than about cleaning up the sport.

pedro_colnago

ThisRegard wrote: »

Well he did say he may have been duped.

For a so called top journalist He has been duped a few times by pro cycling at this stage. He always seems to get two stories out of everything, going from naive fan boy to hardend cynic. He has made a great career playing to the gallery all the time. He is a pain in the arse

ThisRegard

I'm not defending him, just giving his answer when the question was put to him.

Brailsford coming up on 5Live at 7 anyway.

Arequipa

I never realised how many pro athletes suffer from asthma & hayfever...
It is such a pity that the Grand Tours coiincide with high pollen counts in summertime....

Weepsie

If this wasn't Sky, many here wouldn't give two sh!ts.

Why would sky when they see the likes of Astana getting off with near systematic approaches to doping and PEDs but aye, its all just Sky I guess

jaykay74

Weepsie wrote:

If this wasn't Sky, many here wouldn't give two sh!ts.

Winners get questioned more I guess or..?

ThisRegard

Weepsie wrote: »

If this wasn't Sky, many here wouldn't give two sh!ts.

Why would sky when they see the likes of Astana getting off with near systematic approaches to doping and PEDs but aye, its all just Sky I guess

Sky painted themselves into a corner with their we're going to be the best and cleanest team in cycling history so you shouldn't, nor they, be surprised with the focus on their transgressions on their ideologies.

Arequipa

I read the Secret Pro talking about Astana in the Giro a couple of years ago.. They were literally motoring up the climbs & the rest of the peleton were clinging on so pi**ed off that noone was calling them out...

Sky deserve everything they get.. If they are so clean.. They will have to man up & explain why Wiggins' allergy/asthma was so bad that he need a powerful corico steroid, abused by Armstrong years ago .. To be able to compete...
Its verrrrrry dodgy...

Lumen

pedro_colnago wrote: »

David Walsh God he is a parasite
he wrote a book about sky and there marginal gains horse**** a couple of years ago and made money from it, now he will make more hounding them

Writing for money is his job.

Leroy42

Sorry, but how did this become a topic about Kimmage?

Like him or loath him he is not the one destroying the sport and taking everyone for fools.

fishfoodie

Leroy42 wrote: »

Sorry, but how did this become a topic about Kimmage?

Like him or loath him he is not the one destroying the sport and taking everyone for fools.

You need to read up on the basic tactics of derailing a thread.

Step one is changing the focus of everyone off the real topic, & onto one that everyone has an opinion on, but is totally irrelevant to the actual discussion :rolleyes:

MPFGLB

terrydel wrote: »

Can you type that again in English please?

I would not be commenting on my ability to read if I were you, given the incomprehensible drivel you've just typed here.

Here is your quote, lifted directly from your initial post -

'It is possible to have doubst about SKY , to question SKY , to want to see them brought to book and still think Kimmage is just as much a part of the problem'

I think it is reasonable to assume from this quote that you meant Kimmage was as much a part of cycling's drug problem, and I'd wager many others would read into it the same. Given the topic being discussed, what other problem are you referring to?

Can you maybe refrain from insulting comments just becasue you donlt agree with me.

As for my point is is very simple ..You can doubt SKY AND still think Kimmage is part of the problem with the sport Its not a comparison ....You know like you can dislike bacon AND cabbahe ...which is just a logical 'and' ...It doesn't mean cabbage is comparable to bacon

I have used these analogies becasue you are being deliberately obtuse for what is a very simple point. But as i said you cannot entertain the subtly of an argument much like your hero. I am not hoing to repond further to your insults. I am entitled to my views on Kimmage and I am not answerable to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPFGLB View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran81 View Post
he isn't and it isn't


Of course there are clean riders in cycling ....but not in Kimmages world
Now you're being ridiculous. Kimmage has maintained all along that Dan Martin and many others are clean, it's them he's claiming to be crusading for.

So we all now Dan Martin is clean for sure how ?? KImmage has decreed it !!! ..And yet the whole of SKY are bad.or anyone he takes again is wrong ..as I said these one dimensional biased views are not in the interest of sport.

Kimmage has not uncovered anything ...unlike the German journalists who uncovered the doping in Russia or the British journalist who uncovered the issues surounding Mo Farrars coach....
He constantly crys wolf about the all that is wrong with the sport and sooner or later something comes up the vindicates his position but mostly he is a negative shouter from the sidelines. He personifies negativity and is not measured in his view of the sport nor does it help him work to uncover the facts...