Wiggins/Froome Asthma

terrydel

pelevin wrote: »

This package story - haven't given it the deepest of looks but anyway . . . otoh it seems to have quickly become another pretty big media event of story, but short of some real substance, & I don't think were it involving other teams it'd have made it to be much of a story. It's in the light of the TUE Fancy Bear stuff that has opened the door to it getting & perhaps warranting such focus. On thother hand though depite the lack of hard evidence it does have a genuine stench about it - a team member coming from the UK to France to deliver some medical package. How specialised a substance was it that France was out of stock?
And what's certainly adding to it is Brailsford's response & he seems to really lack in the covering his ass department once real heat has started to come on. Comes out with stuff about Wiggins & the bus that doesn't seem to add up, asks the journalist is he tapping his phone!!(very weird), says the package was for Emma Pooley which quickly fails to add up.

Yeah, you'd think Mr Marginal Gains who covers every angle with his world class attention to detail would be able to get diary dates correct.

Kaisr Sose

terrydel wrote: »

Yeah, you'd think Mr Marginal Gains who covers every angle with his world class attention to detail would be able to get diary dates correct.

... just mere marginal differences.

Ask any PR company, ass-covering and blowing smoke is all about the marginal details....

Expect a masterclass from the author of all things marginal

Arequipa

Is it a coincidence that Gert Linders (the dodgy Doc) was with Sky when Wiggins needed steroids to cure his realllly bad asthma & hay fever......?

Sandwell

Arequipa wrote: »

Is it a coincidence that Gert Linders (the dodgy Doc) was with Sky when Wiggins needed steroids to cure his realllly bad asthma & hay fever......?

More to the point, is it a coincidence that they were going nowhere until the year Leinders joined the team? Things took a serious turn for the better after his arrival. His experience of weighing riders in the morning must have been all they were missing.

RobFowl

A friend living in the UK said the story was being heavily reported on the BBC today.
British Cycling and Sky getting asked a lot of questions and not too many answers forthcoming...
Brian Cookson's silence becoming much more noticed as well, esp given his links to both BC and Sky..

lismuse

It is now being reported that UKAD have "raided" the HQ in Manchester !
Maybe the Sky is falling after all !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3827780/Drug-raid-Velodrome-Cycling-crisis-investigators-swoop-dream-factory.html

fishfoodie

Leroy42 wrote: »

The TUE's were accepted by both Wada and UCI so not sure why you are saying that.

If they were rule breaking Wiggo would already been banned.

Are you confusing unethical with unlawful?

Personally speaking, I prefer, morally bankrupt

You know; if you extend your morality credit too far, & are found wanting when someone seeks proof of ability to pay

morana

As this is the first time in history anything like this has ever happened i think we should all hold fire! Unless we see Dr ferrari putting the needle in his bum we have no proof.

The raid on manchester by UK anti doping was probably something to do with tax.

Wiggo's Sideburns are innocent of Alpecin doping!

velo.2010

BSkyB/FOX could pull the plug on the operation very quickly and we may never get the answers to some very important questions.

MPFGLB

velo.2010 wrote: »

BSkyB/FOX could pull the plug on the operation very quickly and we may never get the answers to some very important questions.

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

RobFowl

Thinking of having a bet on who goes first, Sky or Trump....

highbury1913

MPFGLB wrote: »

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

I do agree with this. I love those journalists who report on those other sports who can't wait to have a comment on all this Sky stuff while not bothering to ask questions of their own.

The same with the Russian athletics doping.

Just look at the Sunday Times report on Bonar and all the evidence disclosed about him on football. Far more damning stuff than what I see now with Sky and I leave you guess which sport out of the two will have more legs with covering the story.

Tramadol isn't a surprise. Michael Barry talked about. Farrell said it was in use before in the team. I don't know why people are acting as if this is new news.

MPFGLB

Here you go ...feast on this

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tue-problem-is-about-much-more-than-wiggins-says-roche/?utm_content=buffer6bd46&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

paddy no 11

MPFGLB wrote: »

This is a major issue for the livlihoods of many staff and riders

I know SKY have pushed the envelope on the rules and have been unethical but do they deserve to be pushed into extinction

And does cycling deserve again to be reported as the 'doping' sport when no actual illgeal substances have been reported to be abused

There needs to be balance...Sensational reporting framed as if everyone at SKY are runing a doping ring while puritancial demands for cycling leaves other sports untouched. Tramadol is not on WADA banned list but its reported in relaton to SKY as if it were an performance enhancer.

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

Could you please PM what GAA teams are doping? interested in any anecdotal evidence

ednwireland

Saw Shane byrne last week on tv3 after the dan carter tue and he said that no player would risk doping because one or two players could get rested at the end of the game.
That was the ens of the discussion.

Real head in the sand stuff imo.

Cycling as spent a lot of time and effort tryin to clean itself up (often very incompetently been charitable here) and it seems to get hammered over it.

Other sports just seem to gloss over it as rogue individuals athletics for one not many talking about Russia but sky is constantly across the headlines.

Chuchote

Maybe the solution is to make all the asthmatics limit their entries to Paralympics and other disabled races. Then all the world records would be made by the disabled

CramCycle

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Could you please PM what GAA teams are doping? interested in any anecdotal evidence

I have none, interesting that the GAA have different rules to most other sports in regards doping controls. I have witnessed it at interclub level 20 years ago but that is not evidence at intercounty level.

How many doping controls have been done on intercounty players out of season?

MPFGLB

CramCycle wrote: »

I have none, interesting that the GAA have different rules to most other sports in regards doping controls. I have witnessed it at interclub level 20 years ago but that is not evidence at intercounty level.

How many doping controls have been done on intercounty players out of season?

http://www.clare.fm/sport/clare-hurlers-one-seven-teams-miss-drug-tests

MPFGLB

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/there-is-doping-in-the-gaa-and-thats-for-sure-says-double-paralympic-gold-medallist-31211838.html

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/paul-kimmage-connolly-not-the-first-gaa-player-to-use-steroids-and-he-wont-be-the-last-31317362.html

buffalo

On the more general topic of TUEs... Rugby accounts for over a quarter of TUEs

Of the 43 granted, 28 per cent - or 12, were rugby to players. Next on the list was athletics with 19 per cent and GAA on 9 per cent. Cycling, a sport with a long association with doping, accounted for 7 per cent, with motorcycling and motorsport both on six per cent each.

In this context, rugby covers international teams across men’s and women’s teams at all age grades up to full international and the provincial sides. That’s a pool of less than 500 players.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2016/1010/822937-rugby-accounts-for-over-a-quarter-of-tues/

ford2600

MPFGLB wrote: »

And what gets me also is there are so many whose only interested in cycling is to 'debate' the doping agenda ...or follow the voices of gloom

There is no real objectivity with regard to the sport as a whole ...

Who on here is so quick to call cyclists cheats are calling GAA footballers /hurlers cheats and there are plenty of them ?
Or Irish rugby players ?

Or even that bothereed to investiagte or find the 'truth' in these sports yet they seem so concerned with all at SKY

BUt as I said before you can support fairness and not back doping ...but for many if you are not with them you are against them

How many who want to hang SKY as hypocrits are just as hypocritical (in turning a blind eye) to the many county teams who are on substances and laud these athletics as local heros

While I'd have my own suspicions with certain GAA teams, have you any actual proof of who these many cheats are?

A para Olympic athlete and a journalist airing their suspicions and one 23 yr old using steroids to make Monaghan senior panel isn't evidence of "plenty".

What substances are they on? Which teams? Is it county board administered or is it management doing a solo run?

Is it at club level. all inter county or just top tier? Or do you actual know anything specific? If it's just an anti GAA rant work away

MPFGLB

Is it at club level. all inter county or just top tier? Or do you actual know anything specific? If it's just an anti GAA rant work away

What anti GAA rant ? I said there is use among GAA as outlined in the above articles


Of course if GAA is suspect its an anti GAA rant ...says it all

But everyone knows cycling is all drugs ? They ar all at it is the usual cry? Everyone in cycling is damned by the few not so the GAA ?

Just the kind of response one expects

ford2600

MPFGLB wrote: »

What anti GAA rant ? I said there is use among GAA as outlined in the above articles


Of course if GAA is suspect its an anti GAA rant ...says it all

But everyone knows cycling is all drugs ? They ar all at it is the usual cry? Everyone in cycling is damned by the few not so the GAA ?

Just the kind of response one expects

The articles gave suspicions of two individuals, Kimmage and a para Olympic athlete. The only evidence of cheating was one positive test by a 23 year old.

What evidence do you have to extrapolate to many/plenty?

None I take it?

In the absence of evidence to back up your claim it probably fits this definition?
https://www.google.ie/?gws_rd=ssl#q=rant+definition

MPFGLB

rant : speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.


I spoke at length about how unfair that cycling carries all the bad press
No anger or even impassioned

My views are from articles like above and what I have heard from county players from one GAA team

Of course your use of derogatory terms about my views is typical shoot the messanger

ford2600

MPFGLB wrote: »

rant : speak or shout at length in an angry, impassioned way.


I spoke at length about how unfair that cycling carries all the bad press
No anger or even impassioned

My views are from articles like above and what I have heard from county players from one GAA team

Of course your use of derogatory terms about my views is typical shoot the messanger

So no evidence? Opinion pieces aren't evidence.

I'd have my own suspicions about a few teams in particular, but have no evidence. Without evidence sweeping statement are just ranting.

It is easy enough to make a case that the GAA anti doping stance is lax, not taken seriously by the administrators/players/media/management (there is evidence of that) but no evidence of wide scale doping.

Choosing to defend cycling by slagging of Rugby/GAA without evidence is not the strongest position to start with? Expect to get called on it. The body of evidence of doping in cycling over many generations is staggering, comparing that to GAA where you provided evidence of one failed test is hardly a robust argument and closer to the rant category?

pelevin

To bring this back to Wiggins, has it been mentioned or intimated how Matt Lawton of the Mail got this info about the medical package? Very odd to come to light several years later & requiring very specific info about something far more likely to have stayed totally unknown. Could he have already been in possession of the knowledge from well back but the climate wasn't right? - in that it wouldn't have made much of a ripple or been any appetite in Britain for such until the Fancy Bears stuff came out & all the furore that followed. Or what?

cloonamnaman

New comment on TUE use by Nicholas Roche in The Guardian.
He is emphatic again here, calling it like more pro's should be.

MPFGLB

ford2600 wrote: »

So no evidence? Opinion pieces aren't evidence.

I'd have my own suspicions about a few teams in particular, but have no evidence. Without evidence sweeping statement are just ranting.

It is easy enough to make a case that the GAA anti doping stance is lax, not taken seriously by the administrators/players/media/management (there is evidence of that) but no evidence of wide scale doping.

Choosing to defend cycling by slagging of Rugby/GAA without evidence is not the strongest position to start with? Expect to get called on it. The body of evidence of doping in cycling over many generations is staggering, comparing that to GAA where you provided evidence of one failed test is hardly a robust argument and closer to the rant category?

Maybe I don't have hard evidence becaue no one has bothered to investiage ...

This is an opinion forum and I am sharing opinions and I have as I said conversatiosn about testosterone use in GAA (but its not hard evidence) plus this just in about rugby


https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/785564654240141312

That you dont like it you call it ranting .say I am attacking GAA & Rugby while stating a valid opinion ..(not so for outlandish claims about ALL cyclists being dopers that are often expressed on here..where is your defense of this )

But willing to use derogatory terms if GAA/rugby brought into the spotlight

As i said says it all ....this is what we are up against




I

ford2600

MPFGLB wrote: »

Maybe I don't have hard evidence becaue no one has bothered to investiage ...

This is an opinion forum and I am sharing opinions and I have as I said conversatiosn about testosterone use in GAA (but its not hard evidence) plus this just in about rugby


https://twitter.com/PaulKimmage/status/785564654240141312

That you dont like it you call it ranting .say I am attacking GAA & Rugby while stating a valid opinion ..(not so for outlandish claims about ALL cyclists being dopers that are often expressed on here..where is your defense of this )

But willing to use derogatory terms if GAA/rugby brought into the spotlight

As i said says it all ....this is what we are up against

It's not that I don't like it(I've stated twice I have my own suspicions), it's that you claim many are cheats, yet when asked for evidence you have none. Don't look for a higher standard with regard to cycling while having such a low bar in relation to other sports and expect to be taken seriously.

I heard about testosterone doesn't quite cut.

Classifying an opinion as a rant, which paints two sports with the same brush, without any evidence and comparing them to a sport with (along with athletics) the most notorious history of doping is really that unfair?

If you are going to be offended when called on an unsubstantiated opinion not much I can do for you

happytramp

ford2600 wrote: »

Classifying an opinion as a rant, which paints two sports with the same brush, without any evidence and comparing them to a sport with (along with athletics) the most notorious history of doping is really that unfair?

Yes it is. There was nothing approaching a 'rant'.