Baptise or not to Baptise?

beauf

An ethos could be simply motivational.

looksee

An ethos does not have to be religious. It can be an ethos of caring, fairness, support, challenge - any or all, or indeed others. It could even be a negative ethos of unquestioning obedience, harsh discipline, racism, bigotry, class, etc. There is no reason why a school that does not have a religious ethos cannot have a 'good' ethos.

DirkG

2RockMountain wrote: »

I see the practicality of your point, but it's not true to say 'entirely harmless'.

The harm arises from your child's 'membership' of the Church. They are one more number that the Church can quote back to justify their ongoing ownership and control of the Church.

It is entirely harmless if it is unknown to the child. We have to deal with the world as we find it, wishing it was otherwise is pointless.

Baptism, looked at through non-religious eyes, is 100% harmless unless you are aware of it. If you can get past the insincerity, you don't have to potentially disadvantage your childs options for school, marriage, or joining any religion they please.

THe church is entitled and welcome to "ownership and control" of their church. Time will take care of them once they've lost control of parents

Ms2011

Akrasia wrote: »

You can be a christian without being a catholic. If you don't believe the doctrines of the catholic faith, and if you believe that mass is a barrier to being a good person, then it's very strange that you choose to be catholic because according to the catholic church, all catholics are obliged to attend mass every sunday


This is incredibly OT, but people who say they baptise because of faith, but don't agree with the doctrines of the catholic church are actually baptising because of tradition, not because of faith.

I am a Catholic Christian because that is what I choose to be as is my right.
I am also a free thinker & capable of interpreting my faiths teachings. I do not see mass as barrier but I also don't see it as a necessity.
Like I said I feel God would rather you live a good life everyday through his teachings than sit in a church for an hour once a week.

lazygal

Ms2011 wrote: »

I am a Catholic Christian because that is what I choose to be as is my right.
I am also a free thinker & capable of interpreting my faiths teachings. I do not see mass as barrier but I also don't see it as a necessity.
Like I said I feel God would rather you live a good life everyday through his teachings than sit in a church for an hour once a week.

The Catholic rules I grew up with are clear and unchanging. Catholics must attend mass each week and must only receive communion when in a state of grace, ie having made confession.
You can feel whatever you like but the Catholic rules say otherwise. That's why I don't call myself Catholic any more. I don't follow the rules or respect them.
It sounds like another Christian denomination would be more in line with the belief you have. Some even support marriage equality and see women as equal to men.

Ms2011

lazygal wrote: »

The Catholic rules I grew up with are clear and unchanging. Catholics must attend mass each week and must only receive communion when in a state of grace, ie having made confession.
You can feel whatever you like but the Catholic rules say otherwise. That's why I don't call myself Catholic any more. I don't follow the rules or respect them.
It sounds like another Christian denomination would be more in line with the belief you have. Some even support marriage equality and see women as equal to men.

I am a Catholic & really don't appreciate being told I should change faith to suit the sensibilities of an atheist.

lazygal

Ms2011 wrote: »

I am a Catholic & really don't appreciate being told I should change faith to suit the sensibilities of an atheist.

I thought Catholics would adhere to the rules of the faith, one of which is weekly mass attendance and another of which is confession before communion. I'm sure this hasn't changed recently.
I was taught if you're Catholic mass is a joy and a very important occasion. Again I'm sure this is still Catholic doctrine.
Why would a Catholic object to someone stating the doctrine of her faith? Most peculiar.

eviltwin

lazygal wrote: »

I thought Catholics would adhere to the rules of the faith, one of which is weekly mass attendance and another of which is confession before communion. I'm sure this hasn't changed recently.
I was taught if you're Catholic mass is a joy and a very important occasion. Again I'm sure this is still Catholic doctrine.
Why would a Catholic object to someone stating the doctrine of her faith? Most peculiar.

Kinda like being a vegetarian who still eats sausages but it's only sausages so it's okay :rolleyes:

lazygal

eviltwin wrote: »

Kinda like being a vegetarian who still eats sausages but it's only sausages so it's okay :rolleyes:

Yeah, I feel vegetarian when I eat fish the odd time so it's totally OK to use the label I feel like using.

meeeeh

Since we have an expert here, what does catholic church say about meddling into other people's lives?

Edit: oh no two experts.

Ms2011

lazygal wrote: »

I thought Catholics would adhere to the rules of the faith, one of which is weekly mass attendance and another of which is confession before communion. I'm sure this hasn't changed recently.
I was taught if you're Catholic mass is a joy and a very important occasion. Again I'm sure this is still Catholic doctrine.
Why would a Catholic object to someone stating the doctrine of her faith? Most peculiar.

I have had conversations with my parish priest in relation to how I view my faith before baptising my children & if he is comfortable with how I practice it I don't see why it should bother an atheist.
I don't object to anything other than someone with no religious beliefs questioning mine.

Ms2011

eviltwin wrote: »

Kinda like being a vegetarian who still eats sausages but it's only sausages so it's okay :rolleyes:

Yes it's exactly the same :rolleyes:

lazygal

meeeeh wrote: »

Since we have an expert here, what does catholic church say about meddling into other people's lives?

It says evangelism is part of being Catholic and is encouraged. Hence, meddling is part of being Catholic. I think the eighth amendment is proof of this doctrine.

meeeeh

lazygal wrote: »

It says evangelism is part of being Catholic and is encouraged. Hence, meddling is part of being Catholic. I think the eighth amendment is proof of this doctrine.

Oh sorry I didn't realize you are Catholic.

eviltwin

meeeeh wrote: »

Since we have an expert here, what does catholic church say about meddling into other people's lives?

Edit: oh no two experts.

You don't need to be an expert to know that you can't pick and mix what doctrine you choose to believe in.

lazygal

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh sorry I didn't realize you are Catholic.

I was so I know the rules. And as I don't follow them I don't call myself Catholic any more. Kind of how you don't need to be a soccer fan to know how the game should be played.

lazygal

Ms2011 wrote: »

I have had conversations with my parish priest in relation to how I view my faith before baptising my children & if he is comfortable with how I practice it I don't see why it should bother an atheist.
I don't object to anything other than someone with no religious beliefs questioning mine.

Having no religious beliefs doesn't preclude me from knowing Catholic doctrine.

meeeeh

eviltwin wrote: »

You don't need to be an expert to know that you can't pick and mix what doctrine you choose to believe in.

People can do whatever they want if they feel they are Catholics then who am I to tell them that they are not. Stop treating others like they are some sort of morons just because they don't believe the same things as you do or don't.

Ms2011

lazygal wrote: »

Having no religious beliefs doesn't preclude me from knowing Catholic doctrine.

Better than a practicing priest?

lazygal

Ms2011 wrote: »

Better than a practicing priest?

Depends on the priest I guess.
Some priests voiced support for marriage equality. I don't need to know better than them to know that's in direct opposition to Catholic doctrine.

eviltwin

Ms2011 wrote: »

Better than a practicing priest?

We have priests shagging women, children, each other and who knows what else. The whole thing is a complete farce at this stage. I'd take anything they say with a does of scepticism.

lazygal

meeeeh wrote: »

People can do whatever they want if they feel they are Catholics then who am I to tell them that they are not. Stop treating others like they are some sort of morons just because they don't believe the same things as you do or don't.

They can call themselves whatever they like but the doctrine is very clear. Maybe they'll confess their sins and repent but there's the sheep outside the fold allegory that's used to describe those who don't follow the rules.

eviltwin

meeeeh wrote: »

People can do whatever they want if they feel they are Catholics then who am I to tell them that they are not. Stop treating others like they are some sort of morons just because they don't believe the same things as you do or don't.

I don't think she's a moron but it's pretty basic stuff. You can't call yourself a Catholic if you don't follow or believe basic Catholic teaching.

meeeeh

lazygal wrote: »

Depends on the priest I guess.
Some priests voiced support for marriage equality. I don't need to know better than them to know that's in direct opposition to Catholic doctrine.

Better call the pope that he has some heathens in his flock. We can't have that.

Ms2011

I'm not going to derail the OP'S thread anymore than it is.
I stated that I baptised my kids & my reasons (though apparently not good enough for some) & getting into a Catholic school was never a consideration.

lazygal

meeeeh wrote: »

Better call the pope that he has some heathens in his flock. We can't have that.

Who's "we"? The people who call themselves Catholic but only pick the bits they like? Or the people who don't believe any of it but got the kids "done" for school purposes?

meeeeh

lazygal wrote: »

They can call themselves whatever they like but the doctrine is very clear. Maybe they'll confess their sins and repent but there's the sheep outside the fold allegory that's used to describe those who don't follow the rules.

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't think she's a moron but it's pretty basic stuff. You can't call yourself a Catholic if you don't follow or believe basic Catholic teaching.

You are acting like you do. In fact you know very little about her beliefs except something about mass attendance and yet you and the side kick feel the need to lecture her what she is or isn't.

Eire Go Brach

Don't be a sheep. Break the chain. If you have no faith. Don't put one on your child and assume it will make his/her life easier.

Religion needs to be gone and people of no faith need to stop doctrine the kids for the sake of it.

Muff Richardson

eviltwin wrote: »

We have priests shagging women, children, each other and who knows what else. The whole thing is a complete farce at this stage. I'd take anything they say with a does of scepticism.

this thread popped up on the homepage and i clicked on it as i am in a similar situation.

it descends into this, time after time. perhaps venting your energy and vile hatred towards the catholic church is best spent on a catholic church hating thread or elsewhere? i just don't understand it.

livedadream

Any chance a mod wants to move this from the PARENTING forum to the RELIGION forum due to the bickering going back and forth that ya know has nothing to do with the OPs question in any way shape or form?