So Who Played the Housing Market and Won?

lcwill

Bought two one bed apartments in Dublin in 2013, just after the bottom and now getting a gross yield of almost 12% on my total investment include a gut renovation of each of them, and the rent is about 150 a month below what similar places are renting for now.

I just happened to be in the position to buy at the right moment and couldn't see any way prices could fall further. I wasn't counting on any capital gains though, and I definitely didn't expect rents to go the way they have.

I wasn't in a position to buy in 2008 but I remember suggesting to my parents a few times during 06,07 that they should think about selling.

I am planning to sell the apartments when the gross yield on market value gets anywhere close to the 3.5% it was at in 2007. Not sure it will ever happen again, hopefully not, but if it does that's my trigger to jump ship.

Villa05

Ray Palmer wrote:

I used to post a lot on this thread before and after the crash. Lots of people posted how they were waiting for the crash and then they would swoop in and pickup a bargain. I pointed out that if the market crashed employment would drop and banks wouldn't loan much. Pretty sure I mentioned interest rates would go higher too..

Interest rates on mortgages are at record lows and have been for some time

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Annaghdown, Galway.

I'm not and still have no idea why you assume that's where I'm from and as I said I won't be saying anyway.

Ray Palmer

Villa05 wrote: »

Interest rates on mortgages are at record lows and have been for some time

The rate of a new mortgage isn't. People on trackers are paying less for their money than somebody who bought for less but have a higher rate and will continue to for the remainder of their mortgages. If somebody bought for the same price as person did before the crash they are paying much more monthly and also years behind. Did they rent during those years too? That adds up.

People might not have actually got the bargain they think the did. I am a little dubious of people saying they managed to buy and the house price has gone up 100% since they bought. Haven't seen any reports of such huge increases from the bottom.

There is obviously some tipping point where having bought at a lower point with a higher rate is better than a higher price with a lower rate but it is there. I reckon people ignore this even exists. When rates go up again that point will change.

There certainly isn't the numbers of people saying they had a plan coming on saying they followed through. There was a lot of ridicule directed at me for suggesting that it was unlikely for such plans to work given that employment and banks would change. The reason I started the thread was because another member sent me a message saying they were sorry for their attacks on me because what I said was right.

One of the reasons I stopped posting here was the attacks for agreeing that there was housing crisis coming and rents would spiral. I was laughed at and ridiculed for it.

fits

I missed the boom just about as I was late leaving college and only started work in 2008. Missed the bust also as while I was earning its been contract work all the way. Have a good deposit now but only husband in secure work so I don't know how the banks will view us.

macnug

Ray Palmer wrote:

I am a little dubious of people saying they managed to buy and the house price has gone up 100% since they bought. Haven't seen any reports of such huge increases from the bottom.

House prices in general havnt gone up 100% but during 2012-2013 there were some firesale bargains to be had. At least that was the case with mine. Houses in my estate were 200k in 2008 but the builder had trouble moving about 20 of them, he was a big developer from the north (can't think of his name). Nama took over the 20 houses and sold them in a firesale for a fraction of the cost.

Ray Palmer

macnug wrote: »

House prices in general havnt gone up 100% but during 2012-2013 there were some firesale bargains to be had. At least that was the case with mine. Houses in my estate were 200k in 2008 but the builder had trouble moving about 20 of them, he was a big developer from the north (can't think of his name). Nama took over the 20 houses and sold them in a firesale for a fraction of the cost.

So you are talking about really small numbers hence I have legitimate case for being dubious. Nama didn't really sell many single properties so I am even dubious on what you are saying.

loyatemu

We bought in 2005, sold in 2009 (because we knew we would need a larger place in the long run, and could see the market was crashing) - more or less broke even on that. Then rented for a few years and bought again in 2012 at pretty much the bottom of the market.

So we got lucky, if we'd waited a fews more months in 09 I don't think we would have sold, and the place we are now, we wouldn't be able to afford at current prices. If we'd sold the first place a year earlier we'd have made a massive profit though.

meeeeh

We took out our mortgage in 2007 and built. We poured in quite a bit of the money so all cost including I am not sure we made profit but I am fairly sure we don't have negative equity. We have the house we wanted in the area we like and mortgage interest rate of 0.8%. Realistically because we own a company that is in very challenging area we would have no chance of getting the same amount of money today. We didn't plan things, we definitely didn't play the market (although we did decide against buying) but we were extremely lucky.

I think it's right to be cautious but if or when you are looking for a home it is a lot more important to find a place that is right for you than worrying about bargains.

newacc2015

Villa05 wrote: »

Interest rates on mortgages are at record lows and have been for some time

Tell that to investors with BTL mortgages in negative equity or investors with a bad credit rating with their banks charging them 5.8% on their BTL mortgage. I know a ton of investors paying 5.8%

The_Conductor

GreatDefector wrote: »

Is that an urban legend?

There was quite a sizeable cohort who managed to pull this one...........
Its not an urban legend by any means- the nature of sitting on a landbank in the manner that farming dictates is necessary- means- lots partook when financially it was silly not to- buying the land back, unbuilt on- is the icing on the cake- however, even in county Dublin- there are farmers who pulled off that one.........

radharc

Stationmaster wrote: »

Definitely not. I know of at least 2 lads here in my locality who did the same. A lot of farmers, by nature, would be overly cautious with money, so they just left the proceeds of the sale of land sitting in the bank for a few years.

Unfortunately a lot of them probably left the proceeds in bank shares rather than sitting in the bank as this was always a popular investment with farmers and actively pushed by the banks of course.

iguana

Long story short, we pretty much sold fairly high and bought very low for cash. Have a great family home with a huge garden in an area I love and a wonderful lifestyle. I can't say it was something we perfectly predicted but we took an educated risk which was also based on what we felt was the best move for us for personal reasons. Ie; we had come to hate living in the area where we sold our first house, we would have made more money if we'd stayed there a few more years but it would absolutely not have been worth it. When we bought this house, we weren't convinced the market had bottomed out but we wanted to own a home again and fell in love with this particular house so we negotiated what we felt was a very fair price. As it happened house prices started rising rapidly the month we bought but that wasn't something I had expected to happen.

Tombo2001

Villa05 wrote: »

The propertypin called the crash and the recovery correctly if you pay heed to the more intelligent posters, that is



Purchased at the bottom of the market in one of irelands smaller cities, don't see it as playing and winning, rather avoiding being fleeced on one of the most important purchases of your life.

Feel sorry for those that have and continue to be fleeced in this rigged property market

If you pay heed to the posters who got it right.....easy to say in retrospect.......the people who called the crash where the same people who were complete doom merchants in 2010.

radharc

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If you pay heed to the posters who got it right.....easy to say in retrospect.......the people who called the crash where the same people who were complete doom merchants in 2010.

True, similar to here also. I posted a thread in late 2011 to this forum about purchasing. The consensus was that this was utter madness with some posters implying I was stupid, reckless or both. As it turned out that was fairly close to the bottom of the market.

wandatowell

Bought my own house in 2010 for 84k w/ no mortgage, valued at 165k when I rented it out last year. Wife in a similar position, she bought in 2011 and based on lesser houses being sold in the same estate there's easily 70k in value added to her place.

All down to luck and a healthy habit of saving.



And more luck. A lot of luck.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Dardania

GreatDefector wrote: »

Zainab Numerous Vulgarity wrote: »

Not so much with actual houses but a local farmer I know sold a few acres near a small town for a few million about a few months before the sh*t hit the fan. He has since bought it back from the bank for a few 100k, bought another farm with a house, kitted out his farm with new machines and the best of farm sheds and infrastructure and still has a few million in the bank.

Is that an urban legend?

It will be an urban legebd when the land is rezoned!

Heisenberg1

We went sale agreed in Feb 2012 closed in June 2012 house needed gutting we had the money to do it and we got a brand new house internally, house is in a great location and has increased in value a lot since then. Our mortgage is small when we compare it to rents in our area.

Alf Veedersane

We didn't play the housing market as such...we got lucky.

We had a budget, stuck to it, viewed lots of houses and waited until we found one we could afford and which we intended to stay in for a minimum of 10 years.

The house next door was up for let about 6 months ago. The rent is 2.35 times our mortgage.

There but for the grace of Dog and all that.

wandatowell

Woof.

9Crimes

Bought Q2 2013 for €270k, remortgaged Q1 2015 and had house revalued then to €400k. Personally I don't think it would have sold for €400k then, but valuer was confident.

That's nearly 50% in 18 months, absolute bat**** crazy appreciation all over again.

SarahMollie

9Crimes wrote: »

Bought Q2 2013 for €270k, remortgaged Q1 2015 and had house revalued then to €400k. Personally I don't think it would have sold for €400k then, but valuer was confident.

That's nearly 50% in 18 months, absolute bat**** crazy appreciation all over again.

Why did you remortgage?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

CruelCoin

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I used to post a lot on this thread before and after the crash. Lots of people posted how they were waiting for the crash and then they would swoop in and pickup a bargain. I pointed out that if the market crashed employment would drop and banks wouldn't loan much. Pretty sure I mentioned interest rates would go higher too.
There was then reports of an impending housing shortage and massive rent rise which I said was likely but I probably underestimated the speed.

Anyway not here to say "I told you so" I am just wonder did people mange to get these great deals. There were opportunities at points where you could have lucked out. You could have sold close to the peak and bought at the bottom or had enough cash to buy the house you wanted. Not really looking for news story of some company or individuals just people who come here.

I got a 4-bed, 3-bath with a massive garden in a good estate for 105k, 10 mins walk from the town centre, and 60 minutes drive from Dublin. entire garden gets sun all day 365 days a year.

My older brother bought a 3-bed 2-bath with a tiny box garden in the same town for 275k at the height of the bubble.

I was the "gob****e" for not buying at the time "shure its only gonna go up".

Who's the gob****e now?

Sleepy

My sister and her husband bought right in the trough: they paid 325k for a gorgeous 7 bed detached from a NAMA developer back in 2012. The properties were being developed for an original asking price of twice that so the spec was very high (solid kitchens, underfloor heating, hardwood floors, in-vac etc.) They had to wait nearly 2 years for it to be finished but before they even got the keys, one of the others in the development had sold at 40k more and last year one sold in the high 400's. Would be stunned if they couldn't get 500k for it now.

We only closed on our place this summer having gone sale agreed back in February. It's a fixer-upper and we're only half way through the work we want done, but I suspect we could probably already get more for it now than we've put into it if we were to sell: a lot of people just couldn't see past what were almost all cosmetic issues so we got a 4 bed in North County Dublin for 230k.

EDIT: I wouldn't say we "won" either. We're buying in a rising market so who knows where it'll go. Didn't buy during the boom because by the time I could have gotten a mortgage (2006 or so) the writing was on the wall but I couldn't have gotten a mortgage until this year since tbh). My sister's done very well but it was lucky timing more than any strategy.

CruelCoin

Sleepy wrote: »

a lot of people just couldn't see past what were almost all cosmetic issues

Same boat.

I bought for 105k, put 15-20k into it and it's now worth 160k, 18 months later...

mariaalice

I had a look at property for sale today and a similar house to ours is for sale today at 20k less that double what we paid for ours in 2012, now this one is renovated and we had to renovate ours, new kitchen, bathroom ect and the garden was a jungle when we purchased, so not an exact comparison but its amazing how strong the property market has come back.

JoeyJJ

Won is probably bad term, I done ok, happy with the price of my house the day I bought it. Once you press the button you need to make sure you could finish paying the mortgage with your current resources. All to often you see people saying once we hit 65 we will downsize, betting values go up or remain steady.

9Crimes

SarahMollie wrote: »

Why did you remortgage?

to lower ltv and get a better interest rate