Luas Fine!

Jamie2k9

Looks like people who don't pay for tickets and get caught are funding the increased pay roll.

Fine got from 45 back to 100 (at least I think it was 100 before it dropped).

Stoogie

I don't know what this means.

ted1

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Looks like people who don't pay for tickets and get caught are funding the increased pay roll.

Fine got from 45 back to 100 (at least I think it was 100 before it dropped).

And those that do pay are funding those that don't get caught.

Jamie2k9

ted1 wrote: »

And those that do pay are funding those that don't get caught.

I'm aware but it was just an observation, we will also be funding the drivers once new fares are announced as well.

LXFlyer

Stoogie wrote: »

I don't know what this means.

I *think* he's trying to say that the standard fare on LUAS (payable when you are caught without a valid ticket for your journey has been increased from €45 to €100, and that in his opinion this is one of the ways that they are funding the increased payroll costs.

Captain Chaos

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm aware but it was just an observation, we will also be funding the drivers once new fares are announced as well.

It doesn't work that way. Veolia but in a tender for x amount of years to the NTA. If they win the bid then the NTA agrees to pay Veolia that set amount per year of the contract. It's up to Veolia after that to make a profit from their bid and the NTA has to agree fare prices, they have final say.

ted1

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I'm aware but it was just an observation, we will also be funding the drivers once new fares are announced as well.

Just pay your fare like everybody else, that way you avoid the fine.

dazberry

I have seen those scrolling messages at the Luas stops in respect to a €100 fine, however the byelaws on the Luas website still report the standard fare as:

€45 if it is paid to the operator within 14 days of the date the Standard Fare was issued by the authorised person to the passenger; or
€100 if it is paid to the operator more than 14 days from the date the Standard Fare was issued by the authorised person to the passenger but not later than 28 days from the Standard Fare being issued.

D.

GM228

Fine has always been and still is €100.

howiya

GM228 wrote: »

Fine has always been and still is €100.

I got caught out once having not brought my annual taxsaver ticket with me to work that day. Fine was €45

GM228

howiya wrote: »

I got caught out once having not brought my annual taxsaver ticket with me to work that day. Fine was €45

The €45 charge is the "standard fare", it is not a fine, the fixed penalty fine is €100 and has been since 2007.

LUAS inspectors can issue either a €45 standard fare or a €100 fine, it's not common knowledge as they generally issue a standard fare and not a fine but the €100 has always been there.

oppenheimer1

What happens say if someone gives an address outside the state?

Mr.Frame

I just had a look at the above Luas bye laws link and I saw the following :

"(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform."

I seldom ever get the Luas but as it happens I did last wednesday and saw a person being stopped by one of these inspectors and she was asked to produce her ticket , on the platform.

However, I seem to recall not so long ago that a case was before the courts and the Judge said Luas inspectors had no authority to stop individuals on the platform and ask to see their tickets.
Can anyone confirm this ??

howiya

GM228 wrote: »

The €45 charge is the "standard fare", it is not a fine, the fixed penalty fine is €100 and has been since 2007.

LUAS inspectors can issue either a €45 standard fare or a €100 fine, it's not common knowledge as they generally issue a standard fare and not a fine but the €100 has always been there.

In what instance would they issue a €100 fine?

GM228

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I seem to recall not so long ago that a case was before the courts and the Judge said Luas inspectors had no authority to stop individuals on the platform and ask to see their tickets.
Can anyone confirm this ??

The judge said they had no authority to ask someone for a ticket on a public road which wasn't part of a LUAS platform.

Previously discussed here:-
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057620079/1

GM228

howiya wrote: »

In what instance would they issue a €100 fine?

Trespass, failure to give name and address, failure to have a ticket, failure to pay a fare etc.

XPS_Zero

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I just had a look at the above Luas bye laws link and I saw the following :

"(2) Where an authorised person observes an individual alighting from a light rail vehicle they may request that the individual produces a valid ticket for inspection on the stop platform."

I seldom ever get the Luas but as it happens I did last wednesday and saw a person being stopped by one of these inspectors and she was asked to produce her ticket , on the platform.

However, I seem to recall not so long ago that a case was before the courts and the Judge said Luas inspectors had no authority to stop individuals on the platform and ask to see their tickets.
Can anyone confirm this ??

They were doing two things wrong, legally:

•Stopping on non Luas property
(Security staff etc can detain you if you've committed a crime, pending police arrival, and can toss you for trespassing, enforce rules etc but only on their employers property eg a doorman of a club has no power over you as you stand on the street unless he's seen you commit a crime - he can't order you to do jack)

•Asking people on platforms. They could be waiting for someone getting off a tram, the tram might be 15 min away and they're waiting until 1m to tag their LEAP as they need it to last the 90 min if they're going say Cherrywood to Tallaght...so it was changed to 'they have to see you getting off a tram.

I'm ok with them enforcing this just wish they'd check the usual suspects who seem to do it with impunity and do it in plain clothes!!!! It's LUNACY for them to wear bright yellow jackets and stick out so obviously the routine scammers see them ages away from the stop the Luas is covered in bloody glass it's sooo sooo easy to see ahead and just act like you're getting off, passing them as they get on.

Those kids from Ballyogan Wood who look like the mutants from Futurama have a whole system to evade them they even know to be watching for them starting at the depot stop specifically

2RockMountain

XPS_Zero wrote: »

I'm ok with them enforcing this just wish they'd check the usual suspects who seem to do it with impunity and do it in plain clothes!!!! It's LUNACY for them to wear bright yellow jackets and stick out so obviously the routine scammers see them ages away from the stop the Luas is covered in bloody glass it's sooo sooo easy to see ahead and just act like you're getting off, passing them as they get on.

I've seen them leaving 1 or 2 on the platform as the others get on the tram, presumably to watch out for whoever hops off to avoid the fare.

XPS_Zero

Sometimes like rush hour they also have them there to check people getting off.

The RPU guys on DART often stand at turnstiles checking people unseen by those on train. They should do this more often as Shankill station, Killiney, Dalkey, killbarack and killester are nearly always empty of staff with open barriers

Jamie2k9

Sort of related to fines, RPU were in non uniforms this mornings, quiet a few passengers were less than impressed on the commute to work

Sam Russell

Are people with free travel supposed to tag on before getting on the Luas or just have the FTP?

markpb

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sort of related to fines, RPU were in non uniforms this mornings, quiet a few passengers were less than impressed on the commute to work

Were they actual RPU? The contact between TII and Transdev includes targets for (low) fare evasion so TII inspect tickets themselves sometimes to get a feel for the level of fare evasion going on, not so they can issue fines to customers.

Jamie2k9

markpb wrote: »

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sort of related to fines, RPU were in non uniforms this mornings, quiet a few passengers were less than impressed on the commute to work

Were they actual RPU? The contact between TII and Transdev includes targets for (low) fare evasion so TII inspect tickets themselves sometimes to get a feel for the level of fare evasion going on, not so they can issue fines to customers.

Yeah RPU, optional plain cloths was part of the pay agreement. Had usual ID on display once they started checking.