library Closures - Sligo & Ballymote

Andy From Sligo

once again in the spotlight the CC are talking about closing these libraries in Sligo - anyone got any ideas to help keep them open? or what should be done to keep them open or any other views on the matter? -

RTE News - sligo-library closures protest

Bebo stunnah

I've seen this on facebook. There was 900 signatures that had signed a petition. Only 120 people put down that they were going to the protest. Clearly a lot more people went to it than said so on facebook.

My question is; how many of the 900 (or however many showed up to the protest) have been in the library in the last month? The last year even. I know I haven't. However I only recently found out you could actually take out magazines ,through Zinio I think (?). No good to me now though because I Don't live near Sligo anymore. If they had advertised that they had that service I probably would have frequented it more.
Closing down a department run by a very poor local government that's not utilised by the public is not only an inevitability, it's smart economics. -Just because people cry "well we don't want you to" is not a valid reason.

Just to point out I'm against closing the library. But it's stupid having it open every day when there's f**k all people using it. At minimum it should be open 1 day a week, at best a few days per week.

red sean

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

I've seen this on facebook. There was 900 signatures that had signed a petition. Only 120 people put down that they were going to the protest. Clearly a lot more people went to it than said so on facebook.

My question is; how many of the 900 (or however many showed up to the protest) have been in the library in the last month? The last year even. I know I haven't. However I only recently found out you could actually take out magazines ,through Zinio I think (?). No good to me now though because I Don't live near Sligo anymore. If they had advertised that they had that service I probably would have frequented it more.
Closing down a department run by a very poor local government that's not utilised by the public is not only an inevitability, it's smart economics. -Just because people cry "well we don't want you to" is not a valid reason.

Just to point out I'm against closing the library. But it's stupid having it open every day when there's f**k all people using it. At minimum it should be open 1 day a week, at best a few days per week.

Unfortunately, everything you've posted is true.

Geuze

It has been closed on Mon and Tue for a good while already, maybe several years.

OwaynOTT

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

I've seen this on facebook. There was 900 signatures that had signed a petition. Only 120 people put down that they were going to the protest. Clearly a lot more people went to it than said so on facebook.

My question is; how many of the 900 (or however many showed up to the protest) have been in the library in the last month? The last year even. I know I haven't. However I only recently found out you could actually take out magazines ,through Zinio I think (?). No good to me now though because I Don't live near Sligo anymore. If they had advertised that they had that service I probably would have frequented it more.
Closing down a department run by a very poor local government that's not utilised by the public is not only an inevitability, it's smart economics. -Just because people cry "well we don't want you to" is not a valid reason.

Just to point out I'm against closing the library. But it's stupid having it open every day when there's f**k all people using it. At minimum it should be open 1 day a week, at best a few days per week.

If it's anything like my local library, who'd be surprised how many people are using it in a day.
I don't know anything about the Sligo situation but if they have had frequent closures recently and been down staff, it would have had an effect on numbers coming in.
The genreal public not be able to rely on regular opening times will stop going. And reduced numbers of staff would also mean that it would be hard for the libraries to run events that would draw people in.
If they are using recent numbers attending the library as a reason to shut it, I don't think it's a fair metric.

Geuze

The planned rolling closures of Sligo libraries are due to the very difficult financial position of the County Council.

Sligo Co. Co. has an accumulated deficit of nearly €26m as of the end of 2015, by far the worst in Ireland.

One cause of these deficits is the poor income collection rates.

During 2015, even after waivers and adjustments for vacant properties, just 73% of business rates due were collected.

For housing rents the collection rate was 78%, and for housing loans the collection rate was very low at 55%.

Overall, the council is owed €6 million in arrears across these income streams. Improving these income collection rates would surely help avoid further cuts to services.

Geuze

2015 data

Amount due to be collected after waivers and write-offs Amount paid % collected

Rates 14.6m 10.6m 73% 4m in arrears!!!

Rents 6.2m 4.8m 78% 1.3m in arrears

Housing loans 2.2m 1.2m 55% 1m in arrears


Over 6m in income owed to the council

For Forks Sake

Geuze wrote: »

The planned rolling closures of Sligo libraries are due to the very difficult financial position of the County Council.

Sligo Co. Co. has an accumulated deficit of nearly €26m as of the end of 2015, by far the worst in Ireland.

One cause of these deficits is the poor income collection rates.

During 2015, even after waivers and adjustments for vacant properties, just 73% of business rates due were collected.

For housing rents the collection rate was 78%, and for housing loans the collection rate was very low at 55%.

Overall, the council is owed €6 million in arrears across these income streams. Improving these income collection rates would surely help avoid further cuts to services.

I can't find any current data, but I was under the impression that it was far worse than that (€90m or so?) and that was before the costs of that ridiculous supreme court case over Lisadell were added to the pile?

Geuze

You are referring to the debt, which yes is approx 90-100m.

I was referring to the accumulated deficits.


Ryanair has debt, but Ryanair earns profits.

You can have debts, but run a balanced budget.

Most councils have debts, but no other council has an accumulated deficit the size of Sligo's.

For Forks Sake

Geuze wrote: »

You are referring to the debt, which yes is approx 90-100m.

I was referring to the accumulated deficits.


Ryanair has debt, but Ryanair earns profits.

You can have debts, but run a balanced budget.

Most councils have debts, but no other council has an accumulated deficit the size of Sligo's.

Apologies, bit of a brainfart on my part, was speed-reading on the phone when I posted that.

redarmyblues

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

I've seen this on facebook. There was 900 signatures that had signed a petition. Only 120 people put down that they were going to the protest. Clearly a lot more people went to it than said so on facebook.

My question is; how many of the 900 (or however many showed up to the protest) have been in the library in the last month? The last year even. I know I haven't. However I only recently found out you could actually take out magazines ,through Zinio I think (?). No good to me now though because I Don't live near Sligo anymore. If they had advertised that they had that service I probably would have frequented it more.
Closing down a department run by a very poor local government that's not utilised by the public is not only an inevitability, it's smart economics. -Just because people cry "well we don't want you to" is not a valid reason.

Just to point out I'm against closing the library. But it's stupid having it open every day when there's f**k all people using it. At minimum it should be open 1 day a week, at best a few days per week.

The library has not been closed because of lack of demand for its services it has been closed because of cuts to Sligo CoCo services.

You admit you are ignorant of the services the library provides then demand that it be closed or operated on token basis on the mistaken assumption that everybody else shares your ignorance, nor have you any idea what proportion of those who attended the protest use the library, my guess is nearly all since they came out at such short notice on a day when many of those who go all the anti austerity protests were in Dublin for the repeal the 8th march, so it might be better if you were a little more circumspect about sharing your lack of enlightenment here.

Buford T Justice

Geuze wrote: »

You are referring to the debt, which yes is approx 90-100m.

Yes, the majority of which was accumulated while Hubert Kerins was the county manager. Same fella now has a cushty number with Irish Water.

Or should I say that its yer man from over there (wink wink) who worked in that place that time

quaysider

what happened to the new library we were going to get on a new site? Instead of having a library , now it's a car park. quaysider 3

loki7777

Library doesn't make any profit for council, car park does.

Buford T Justice

quaysider wrote: »

what happened to the new library we were going to get on a new site? Instead of having a library , now it's a car park. quaysider 3

They're hardly able to keep the existing one open, I don't think too many people are going to lose too much sleep over a new one not getting built

L.Jenkins

If Sligo CC are finding it difficult to keep a Library open, is this not a sign of poor management or even mis-management of funds in the County?

Andy From Sligo

L.Jenkins wrote: »

If Sligo CC are finding it difficult to keep a Library open, is this not a sign of poor management or even mis-management of funds in the County?

... well that and paying for expensive court cases I think

L.Jenkins

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

... well that and paying for expensive court cases I think

Court cases? The wife is from Sligo town, but it's not something I'm privy to.

Andy From Sligo

L.Jenkins wrote: »

Court cases? The wife is from Sligo town, but it's not something I'm privy to.

Lissadell case:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/rights-and-wrongs-of-the-lissadell-case-1.1759207

Geuze

L.Jenkins wrote: »

If Sligo CC are finding it difficult to keep a Library open, is this not a sign of poor management or even mis-management of funds in the County?

Yes, combined with a weak rates base.

L.Jenkins

Just downloaded the CC Accounts for the previous year. Shall comb through it tomorrow to see where it's going.

EuskalHerria

L.Jenkins wrote: »

Just downloaded the CC Accounts for the previous year. Shall comb through it tomorrow to see where it's going.

You might see something of interest in that. However the biggest unasked question, given the continuing financial issues of the council is, how was this massive debt accumulated.

This won't be shown in accounts just for last year. As Andy mentioned, the Lissadell case certainly didn't help. However one thing contributed to the debt more than anything, mismanagement. The former CEO would present estimates of income and outline a budget accordingly. The estimates were all nonsense, but the FF, FG and Labour majority council would still vote for it. Every year for a number of years. Each year the debt rising as estimates didn't match reality while councillors were happy to spend money they didn't have to keep 'pothole politics' continuing.

I've mentioned 3 political parties, so presumably someone will say this may be biased. Luckily each budget vote is a matter of public record and this is entirely objective.

Geuze

Note that the debt is a different issue to the accumulated deficits.

All councils have debt.

Few have accumulated deficits.

Think of it like this: Ryanair has debt, but it makes profits.

Sligo CC has debt, but it also has been running deficits.

EuskalHerria

Geuze wrote: »

Note that the debt is a different issue to the accumulated deficits.

All councils have debt.

Few have accumulated deficits.

Think of it like this: Ryanair has debt, but it makes profits.

Sligo CC has debt, but it also has been running deficits.

Of course, but the Council deficit is 28million or so with debts of 100m. Still very bad.

What most people seemingly don't know about Sligo county councils financial sitatuion is.....none of this includes the Lissadell money. The financial fallout from that has not been finalised, therefore not added to the books.

So as bad as Sligos situation is now, you can imagine the rest yourselves.

Carson10

I think what Sligo Library needs is a proper fresh manager with a vision, and more volunteer staff. It is stuck in 1986 and needs to move with the times.

They could have a little cafe, run more courses and really open up the Library to everyone. Although it is in the centre of town, it does nothing to draw you in, nor would tourists spot it or feel compelled to go in just from a walk about.

Also why not charge for hiring a book, say €1. ?

I think alot of the people who use the library can well afford to pay a minimal fee for the service at least until it gets back up on its feet, and especially if people who use it want it to be a service available to them.

I know a lot of the people who use the Library are retired teachers on big pensions, lecturers, Doctors children etc, the ones who are at the front of the protest line, yet will go into read the Sligo Champion for free.

Geuze

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Of course, but the Council deficit is 28million or so with debts of 100m. Still very bad.

What most people seemingly don't know about Sligo county councils financial sitatuion is.....none of this includes the Lissadell money. The financial fallout from that has not been finalised, therefore not added to the books.

So as bad as Sligos situation is now, you can imagine the rest yourselves.

Yes, the accumulated deficit is very big. It will take years of running surpluses to reduce it.

And yes, most of the legal costs have not been booked into the accounts yet.

OwaynOTT

Carson10 wrote: »

I think what Sligo Library needs is a proper fresh manager with a vision, and more volunteer staff. It is stuck in 1986 and needs to move with the times.

They could have a little cafe, run more courses and really open up the Library to everyone. Although it is in the centre of town, it does nothing to draw you in, nor would tourists spot it or feel compelled to go in just from a walk about.

Also why not charge for hiring a book, say €1. ?

I think alot of the people who use the library can well afford to pay a minimal fee for the service at least until it gets back up on its feet, and especially if people who use it want it to be a service available to them.

I know a lot of the people who use the Library are retired teachers on big pensions, lecturers, Doctors children etc, the ones who are at the front of the protest line, yet will go into read the Sligo Champion for free.

Volunteers to run events would be a good idea but I'm sure the library has looked and wouldn't turn anyone away. Not much they can do it no one steps forward.
But volunteers can't replace staff, there's more to it than just stamping books.

Also the library can't really charge a fee for borrowing as it goes against their ethos of having the library for all. Not everyone could afford €52 a year. That's only one item per week.
Theh did use to have memebership fees and that money wouldn't have covered running the library either.
I think there could be a donation system set up where you can give something if you want. €1,€2 or €50.
Saying that Sligo libraries are stuck in the past is unfair and ignorant of what they do.
I'm not from the area but I know one branch is trying to do a great creative bookshelf iniative which will look to bring a few strands of the community together to create something not seen anywhere else inIreland.

The lack of events is solely down to not having enough dedicated library staff. I understand some of the staff working in the branches are not originally library staff but drawn from the county council. Their admin staff essentially and not trained in library studies or ideally suited to run events and be frontline staff of the friendly community driven side of the council.
I'm sure they're dedicated and hard workers but not fully suited to run an innovative cultural, social and information hub.
Libraries need library staff to run a welcoming library where they can offer new and unique events.
Libraries are not getting funding across the board in Ireland because they're seen a soft target for cuts as their benefit and profit is hard to quantify and measure.
Footfall and issues don't tell the whole story.
And it's hard to grow the service if staff aren't replaced and funds to run events are minimal to zlinch.

A coffee shop in the library would see local coffee shops possibly complaining that the library is taking away their customers.
And again unless it's free coffee, I don't see how it's fair and inclusive to all.
Some couldn't afford to avail of it and then your creating an exclusive environment.

Have you volunteered? I don't know your background but I'm sure if you went in and said that you would run a coder dojo club or a lego club for example, you'd be welcomed with open arms.
But of those would be free to run although you'd be relying on donations of Lego.

Geuze

The unions won't allow volunteers.

Other staff won't transfer over as library have to work Sat and don't get flexi-time.