SFC Final Replay - Dublin v Mayo Sat 1st October *Read Mod Note Post #1*

blackwhite

No chance of Rock being dropped on the back of one off day in poor weather, he's been one of the more consistent performers for Dublin this summer.

Brogan is probably the most under threat in the inside forward line, especially with memories of what Andrews did at 14 against Mayo in last year's replay.

Past30Now

Agree. With a dry ball, Rock will be significantly more effective. One of the first names on the teamsheet for me.

Moo Moo Land

Past30Now wrote: »

Agree. With a dry ball, Rock will be significantly more effective. One of the first names on the teamsheet for me.

Why was Rock kicking frees off a wet greasy surface when he is perfectly well able to kick out of his hands?

benny79

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Why was Rock kicking frees off a wet greasy surface when he is perfectly well able to kick out of his hands?

This baffled me as well!!

elguapo

Past30Now wrote: »

Agree. With a dry ball, Rock will be significantly more effective. One of the first names on the teamsheet for me.

And if it rains?

Past30Now

elguapo wrote: »

And if it rains?

Hopefully Mayo foul closer to the goal:D

Shurimgreat

I think Dublin will have learned more from the first game, and have more to improve. A dry day will definitely tip the balance in their favour. Lets face it they can't be any worse than they were the last day. Mayo had a longer rest and more time to prepare than Dublin going into the final but whatever advantage coming from that is now gone.

Mayo to put it up to them for 60-65 minutes but Dublin will close it out. Still a good year for Mayo and to be honest its bonus territory at this stage. Come again in 2017 with the experience under our belts.

The Talking Bread

Shurimgreat wrote: »

I think Dublin will have learned more from the first game, and have more to improve. A dry day will definitely tip the balance in their favour. Lets face it they can't be any worse than they were the last day. Mayo had a longer rest and more time to prepare than Dublin going into the final but whatever advantage coming from that is now gone.

Mayo to put it up to them for 60-65 minutes but Dublin will close it out. Still a good year for Mayo and to be honest its bonus territory at this stage. Come again in 2017 with the experience under our belts.

Mayo have had a much longer campaign. Dublin sauntered through Leinster and were able to juggle their squad somewhat.
A week between the two semi finals is very small advantage to try consolidate that imbalance with the qualifiers somewhat. Especially when the final was 3 weeks for Dublin anyway. So no advantage at all in that regard for two professionally trained squads.

With regard bonus territory, this Mayo current squad have been slogging out for over half a decade with Dublin winning 3 All Irelands in that stage and the county of Mayo hasn't won an All Ireland in 65 years.
To say its bonus territory to have another chance of beating what I can decipher from the tone of your post (I am not trying to have a go btw, just a little peeved by what I see as a pretty patronising post - may not have been your aim, I accept that) a superior team is very patronising as a statement in itself.

Mayo, didnt leave it behind them, I hate that statement but they were the better team on the day and showed much greater character and are clearly able to beat Dublin.

Bonus territory from getting another day out is not fair statement.

Only bonus territory at this stage is to win an all Ireland.

Anything other is a spurious and awful result in their books.

PressRun

I think we have more than enough experience at this stage. It's not enough to be happy just taking part anymore. Need to win it.

Moo Moo Land

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mayo, didnt leave it behind them, I hate that statement but they were the better team on the day and showed much greater character and are clearly able to beat Dublin.

If they do not win on October, they will feel they left it behind them.
When they drew level in the 2nd half, that was their chance to push on.

The Talking Bread

Dublin were 5 points ahead at HT and then 3 points ahead in the last minute.

Only one team "left it behind" Sunday.

BonnieSituation

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mayo have had a much longer campaign. Dublin sauntered through Leinster and were able to juggle their squad somewhat.
A week between the two semi finals is very small advantage to try consolidate that imbalance with the qualifiers somewhat. Especially when the final was 3 weeks for Dublin anyway. So no advantage at all in that regard for two professionally trained squads.

With regard bonus territory, this Mayo current squad have been slogging out for over half a decade with Dublin winning 3 All Irelands in that stage and the county of Mayo hasn't won an All Ireland in 65 years.
To say its bonus territory to have another chance of beating what I can decipher from the tone of your post (I am not trying to have a go btw, just a little peeved by what I see as a pretty patronising post - may not have been your aim, I accept that) a superior team is very patronising as a statement in itself.

Mayo, didnt leave it behind them, I hate that statement but they were the better team on the day and showed much greater character and are clearly able to beat Dublin.

Bonus territory from getting another day out is not fair statement.

Only bonus territory at this stage is to win an all Ireland.

Anything other is a spurious and awful result in their books.

Better team on the way and yet ended up with a draw that they came from behind to get?

Dublin could be wile awful the next day but it's unlikely.

I can't see anything but a Dublin win tbh. But I reckon that Mayo will get over that line next year after another year under Rochford and possibly a good shout for a league AI double.

TITANIUM.

blackwhite wrote: »

No chance of Rock being dropped on the back of one off day in poor weather, he's been one of the more consistent performers for Dublin this summer.

Brogan is probably the most under threat in the inside forward line, especially with memories of what Andrews did at 14 against Mayo in last year's replay.

Interesting. Personally I can't see how he's making the first 15 with some of the lad's on the bench. There are other free takers there.
We'll see I suppose. He could prove me wrong the next day and score a heap of points from play, but I very much doubt it.

Moo Moo Land

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Dublin were 5 points ahead at HT and then 3 points ahead in the last minute.

Only one team "left it behind" Sunday.

I thought you hated that statement

It was a weird game alright, I think you could argue that both teams left it behind them. If Kilkenny had taken the final line ball, Dublin would be champions.

That said, Dublin were rattled (and playing very badly) when Mayo drew level. If Mayo could have taken the lead there, who knows...

Moo Moo Land

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mayo have had a much longer campaign.

Mayo started the championship 6 days before Dublin.

The Talking Bread

You know well what I mean.

The Talking Bread

You know well what I mean.

The Talking Bread

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Dublin were 5 points ahead at HT and then 3 points ahead in the last minute.

Only one team "left it behind" Sunday.

I thought you hated that statement

It was a weird game alright, I think you could argue that both teams left it behind them. If Kilkenny had taken the final line ball, Dublin would be champions.

That said, Dublin were rattled (and playing very badly) when Mayo drew level. If Mayo could have taken the lead there, who knows...

I do hate the statement, hence the sarcastic quoted implication of it.

Moo Moo Land

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You know well what I mean.

"Mayo have had a much longer campaign"

Not really no. I am a stickler for detail.

Mayo started 6 days before Dublin with a trip to London on May 29th. Dublin played Laois on June 4th. I dont think you can say that Mayo had a "much longer" campaign.

Maybe you mean much easier campaign or more matches?

Dublin had 6 matches
Mayo had 8 matches.

Panrich

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

"Mayo have had a much longer campaign"

Not really no. I am a stickler for detail.

Mayo started 6 days before Dublin with a trip to London on May 29th. Dublin played Laois on June 4th. I dont think you can say that Mayo had a "much longer" campaign.

Maybe you mean much easier campaign or more matches?

Dublin had 6 matches
Mayo had 8 matches.

Mayo played 7 matches to get to the final with breaks of

3,2,1,2,1,2,4 weeks

Dublin played 5 matches with breaks of

3,3,3,3,3,3 weeks.

It certainly was a more difficult path for Mayo having to take on Tyrone especially on a one week break. They also played 3 games in 4 weeks in Croke Park.

Moo Moo Land

Panrich wrote: »

Mayo played 7 matches to get to the final with breaks of

3,2,1,2,1,2,4 weeks

Dublin played 5 matches with breaks of

3,3,3,3,3,3 weeks.

It certainly was a more difficult path for Mayo having to take on Tyrone especially on a one week break. They also played 3 games in 4 weeks in Croke Park.

Yes a much harder campaign but not a "much longer" campaign.

Then again Dublin played Donegal and Kerry along the way whereas Mayo played London and no 1st division sides en route to final.

ArielAtom

Panrich wrote: »

Mayo played 7 matches to get to the final with breaks of

3,2,1,2,1,2,4 weeks

Dublin played 5 matches with breaks of

3,3,3,3,3,3 weeks.

It certainly was a more difficult path for Mayo having to take on Tyrone especially on a one week break. They also played 3 games in 4 weeks in Croke Park.

So what you are saying is Mayo are at an unfair advantage having played so much football in Croke Park!!!!!

Panrich

ArielAtom wrote: »

So what you are saying is Mayo are at an unfair advantage having played so much football in Croke Park!!!!!

Yes and accustomed to shorter breaks too.

Godge

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Weirdly I am getting less confident of a Mayo win the next day (even though I backed it yesterday at 5/2). I just think the Dublin forwards have much more room for improvement than the Mayo forwards. Dublin were 3 points ahead going into injury time despite playing woeful football. If they get some momentum the next day, they could do serious damage. Brogan is not the player he was but he will not blank the next day. Rock was dropping balls and taking frees off the ground on a very greasy surface, he has to cop on and up his game. McMenamin and Flynn were absent without leave and will want to make an impact. Kilkenny held things together towards the end but he will know he needs to be more of a scoring threat. I'll let Connolly and Keegan play their stupid game.

I looked at the full game again last night on TV.

What struck me most were the missed chances by Dublin in the first half-an-hour. Apart from Rock's misses, there were some awful wides, some very sloppy play and some shots dropped short, that on another day would have yielded five or six points based on an average conversion rate. That would have seen Dublin out of sight by half-time.

The Talking Bread

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You know well what I mean.

"Mayo have had a much longer campaign"

Not really no. I am a stickler for detail.

Mayo started 6 days before Dublin with a trip to London on May 29th. Dublin played Laois on June 4th. I dont think you can say that Mayo had a "much longer" campaign.

Maybe you mean much easier campaign or more matches?

Dublin had 6 matches
Mayo had 8 matches.

Stop being a smart as's. You know well what I meant by longer season in footballing terms. I'm not playingyour childish games

Peist2007

Godge wrote: »

I looked at the full game again last night on TV.

What struck me most were the missed chances by Dublin in the first half-an-hour. Apart from Rock's misses, there were some awful wides, some very sloppy play and some shots dropped short, that on another day would have yielded five or six points based on an average conversion rate. That would have seen Dublin out of sight by half-time.

Average conversion rates against the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Kildare etc. An important distinction.

corny

Peist2007 wrote: »

Average conversion rates against the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Kildare etc. An important distinction.

Why do you keep making stupid comments like that. The suggestion that Dublin are unproven, in any aspect of play, outside of Leinster is preposterous. Just stop would ye.

Bonniedog

Peist2007 wrote: »

Average conversion rates against the likes of Westmeath, Laois, Kildare etc. An important distinction.

Dublin have won 3 AIs in last 6 years. Mayo have not won any.

Get a fkn grip pal!

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

Dublin have won 3 AIs in last 6 years. Mayo have not won any.

Get a fkn grip pal!

5 years

Blud

corny wrote: »

Why do you keep making stupid comments like that. The suggestion that Dublin are unproven, in any aspect of play, outside of Leinster is preposterous. Just stop would ye.

While I understand what you mean, he also has a point. In both this year's and last year's finals, Dublin have scored 5 points from play. It might have looked like a statistical anomaly last year, but doing it twice in a row... it's now at least interesting.

corny

Blud wrote: »

While I understand what you mean, he also has a point. In both this year's and last year's finals, Dublin have scored 5 points from play. It might have looked like a statistical anomaly last year, but doing it twice in a row... it's now at least interesting.

No he doesn't have a point.

Kerry 2015 - 5 points from play
Kerry 2016 - 22 points

Mayo - 2016 5 points from play
Mayo - 2015 3-15 scored

The link between both poor scoring days is the weather. If you don't recognise that you're stupid or trying to wind people up.

Muff Richardson

Blud wrote: »

While I understand what you mean, he also has a point. In both this year's and last year's finals, Dublin have scored 5 points from play. It might have looked like a statistical anomaly last year, but doing it twice in a row... it's now at least interesting.

conditions were sh*t in both games, particularly last years. darragh ó cinnéide's piece in the times today is worth a read

Dyr

Blud wrote: »

While I understand what you mean, he also has a point. In both this year's and last year's finals, Dublin have scored 5 points from play. It might have looked like a statistical anomaly last year, but doing it twice in a row... it's now at least interesting.

Does that mean that Mayos inability to close out three finals in 5 years is a pattern rather than an anomaly?

stats are interesting I suppose, can use them to prove anything.

BonnieSituation

Martin Carney confirmed.

Gah.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0921/818174-rte-coverage-dublin-mayo-replay-all-ireland-final/

Dyr

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Martin Carney confirmed.

Gah.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0921/818174-rte-coverage-dublin-mayo-replay-all-ireland-final/

Canning too :rolleyes:

If you listen carefully, you can hear Ger purse his lips in disapproval every time a dub puts in a tackle

its hard though because carney is usually roaring " a dreadful tackle there it has to be said" in place of his no malice mantra

Utopia Parkway

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Martin Carney confirmed.

Gah.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0921/818174-rte-coverage-dublin-mayo-replay-all-ireland-final/

Is it really that difficult to get someone on colour commentary for an All-Ireland final that hasn't played for one of the counties involved?

BonnieSituation

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Is it really that difficult to get someone on colour commentary for an All-Ireland final that hasn't played for one of the counties involved?

Tommy Carr and Martin Carney being your only choice says yes . ;0

Thank God I'll be at it.

Tickets are in 304G. I better not rain.

corny

Bambi wrote: »

Canning too :rolleyes:

If you listen carefully, you can hear Ger purse his lips in disapproval every time a dub puts in a tackle

its hard though because carney is usually roaring " a dreadful tackle there it has to be said" in place of his no malice mantra

Is it just me or does Canning say Doblin?

ProudDUB

corny wrote: »

Is it just me or does Canning say Doblin?

No, it's not just you. For a Cork man, he gives his vowels a strange Ross O'Carroll Kelly inflection.

Shurimgreat

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Mayo have had a much longer campaign. Dublin sauntered through Leinster and were able to juggle their squad somewhat.
A week between the two semi finals is very small advantage to try consolidate that imbalance with the qualifiers somewhat. Especially when the final was 3 weeks for Dublin anyway. So no advantage at all in that regard for two professionally trained squads.

With regard bonus territory, this Mayo current squad have been slogging out for over half a decade with Dublin winning 3 All Irelands in that stage and the county of Mayo hasn't won an All Ireland in 65 years.
To say its bonus territory to have another chance of beating what I can decipher from the tone of your post (I am not trying to have a go btw, just a little peeved by what I see as a pretty patronising post - may not have been your aim, I accept that) a superior team is very patronising as a statement in itself.

Mayo, didnt leave it behind them, I hate that statement but they were the better team on the day and showed much greater character and are clearly able to beat Dublin.

Bonus territory from getting another day out is not fair statement.

Only bonus territory at this stage is to win an all Ireland.

Anything other is a spurious and awful result in their books.

I don't do patronising, I do realism. Mayo have had three different management teams in the last three seasons. They were also poor or average for most of the year. They didn't face any division one side in the championship until reaching the final. And to be honest, they looked poor enough in the drawn game, as of course did Dublin, but I expect Dublin to show their class in the replay. That's just realism.

The drawn game was a bit of a freak to be honest, two own goals, Rock missing frees due to the bad weather, Dublin forwards slipping and sliding all over the place. Dublin have been the best team over the last 5 years, 28 games unbeaten in all competitions, so on and so forth. They are the better team at this point in time. Rochford is a good manager, he just needs a bit of experience to get Mayo over the line. I don't think it will happen this year, but hopefully it will next year.

The Talking Bread

You used the words "bonus territory" for them getting another day out (to lose in your opinion). How is that not patronising for a team that are well able to win an All Ireland, a team that have been consistently in the top three teams, top two teams arguably, a team that have lost semi finals by minimum margin, likewise finals, that keep on coming back with an outstanding mental resolve year after year.

seligehgit

Not waiting until next year for an All Ireland win,Saturday week is the time to grasp our opportunity with a mentality that we may ne'er get the chance again.

Shurimgreat

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You used the words "bonus territory" for them getting another day out (to lose in your opinion). How is that not patronising for a team that are well able to win an All Ireland, a team that have been consistently in the top three teams, top two teams arguably, a team that have lost semi finals by minimum margin, likewise finals, that keep on coming back with an outstanding mental resolve year after year.

Well after losing to an average Galway team in the Connacht championship, going on to reach an AI final and bringing it to a replay with a last gasp equalising point would be considered bonus territory in anyone's book. It would be great if they won, but in the context of poor and average performances all year, you have to be realistic.

Dublin were odds on to win the first game, but the weather evened things up. They are still odds on to win the replay.

The Talking Bread

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Well after losing to an average Galway team in the Connacht championship, going on to reach an AI final and bringing it to a replay with a last gasp equalising point would be considered bonus territory in anyone's book. It would be great if they won, but in the context of poor and average performances all year, you have to be realistic.

Dublin were odds on to win the first game, but the weather evened things up. They are still odds on to win the replay.

They are much much much better than that Galway performance. If thats how you measure their standard, thats not really touching on realism??

They have peaked exactly the time of year they needed to and just because Dublin are odds on doesnt mean its a Done deal.
Dublin were 1/7 to win at half time on Sunday and 1/20 to win in the last minute. If thats how you are measuring things.

Mayo played in that weather also. They werent carrying umbrellas or special studs. It rains in Dublin too. Both teams are well used to inclement conditions and it wasnt exactly an Atlantic storm, just heavy drizzle.

ProudDUB

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You used the words "bonus territory" for them getting another day out (to lose in your opinion). How is that not patronising for a team that are well able to win an All Ireland, a team that have been consistently in the top three teams, top two teams arguably, a team that have lost semi finals by minimum margin, likewise finals, that keep on coming back with an outstanding mental resolve year after year.

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, you can't really say that a team are well capable of winning an All Ireland, if they have never actually won an All Ireland, in 60 odd years. Yes, they have come close, but in the 7 finals in the last 25 odd years, it has been varying degrees of close but no cigar. Until they actually get over the line, what they are capable of, is up for debate.

The Talking Bread

ProudDUB wrote: »

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, you can't really say that a team are well capable of winning an All Ireland, if they have never actually won an All Ireland, in 60 odd years. Yes, they have come close, but in the 7 finals in the last 25 odd years, it has been varying degrees of close but no cigar. Until they actually get over the line, what they are capable of, is up for debate.

a few of those players only joined up in the last 5 or 6 years. I am not sure, but I don't think any of them played the whole 60 years or even the 25 years.

Why people constantly compare this Mayo team as a cliche prototype of teams like the Mayo team 20 years ago and beyond, its ridiculous! Just because they wear the same jersey.

You honestly think this Mayo team aren't well able to win Saturday week?

Shurimgreat

The Talking Bread wrote: »

a few of those players only joined up in the last 5 or 6 years. I am not sure, but I don't think any of them played the whole 60 years or even the 25 years.

Why people constantly compare this Mayo team as a cliche prototype of teams like the Mayo team 20 years ago and beyond, its ridiculous! Just because they wear the same jersey.

You honestly think this Mayo team aren't well able to win Saturday week?

As recent history shows, there is a massive difference between reaching a final and actually winning one. You need at least a 10% step up in performance and also for everything to go your way as well as not losing your head and conceding soft goals, frees, yellow cards and red cards, which has been a regular occurrence with this Mayo team.

As the previous poster said, you can't be well capable of winning something if you don't actually do it. You can't have potential forever. Potential is meaningless without winning something.

All I saw in the first game was a Mayo team incapable of closing it out, conceding soft goals and so on. For me it was same old Mayo of the last 5 or 6 years. If they repeat that in the replay they will get beaten out the gate.

The Talking Bread

My point is regarding the phrase "bonus territory"

The only bonus is if they win an All Ireland this squad is in my, and most importantly their own, opinion well able to win.

Dublin are favourites but that means absolutely nothing to these players.

Shurimgreat

The Talking Bread wrote: »

My point is regarding the phrase "bonus territory"

The only bonus is if they win an All Ireland this squad is in my, and most importantly their own, opinion well able to win.

Dublin are favourites but that means absolutely nothing to these players.

We are going around in circles here. All I will say is this Mayo team have been average all year and were average in the drawn game too. They were helped by a Dublin side who had a shocker, by far and away the worst performance of the Gavin era. And yet Mayo still couldn't beat them. This does not bode well for the replay. Its no use saying Mayo really put it up to them or Mayo played brilliantly and are well able of beating Dublin. They just about scraped a draw against a Dublin team having an off day. If they can muster another draw or win the next day, then I will take my hat off to Mayo. But they have won nothing yet. I can't see anything other than a Dublin victory though.

ProudDUB

The Talking Bread wrote: »

a few of those players only joined up in the last 5 or 6 years. I am not sure, but I don't think any of them played the whole 60 years or even the 25 years.

Why people constantly compare this Mayo team as a cliche prototype of teams like the Mayo team 20 years ago and beyond, its ridiculous! Just because they wear the same jersey.

You honestly think this Mayo team aren't well able to win Saturday week?

I think some of their decision making down the stretch, has been piss poor. You are correct in saying that none of this current crop of players are responsible for the losses of the past 65 years. But the fact that the 65 year drought exists, exerts a pressure of it own. Has that pressure had an impact on their decision making? Who knows? But until they actually go out and prove that they are impervious to it and, go out and win the damm thing, once and for all, the question of the weight of history being too much for their shoulders, is still a valid one.

I do not deny for a second, that Dublin players are also capable of buckling under pressure, at times, as well as making really bad decisions in the last 10 minutes. However, as they have brought home the bacon, 3 times in the past 5 years, I do not think it is as big/bad/serious a problem for Dublin, as it is for Mayo.