Brotherly love.....

pgibbo

Just spotted this.

shansey

bit of outside assistance there??

68 lost souls

fair play to him, sacrificing his own race to save his brother. Just 4 points off Mola for the series win after that result. Glad to see his recovering well today.

shotgunmcos

Watched it this morning. JB is a class act. What a finish to a race!


Womens race was good yesterday too. I've been rooting for Flora Duffy all season.

mossym

can only imagine the uproar if it had resulted in jonny winning the series,can imagine murray not too happy. was reviewed afterwards and allowed to stand, wonder who filed the complaint(had to be murray i'd guess)

results aside, it's a cracking moment in sport.

mossym

EC1000

mossym wrote: »

wonder who filed the complaint(had to be murray i'd guess)

Spanish federation apparently....

mossym

Alistair's post race interview was good too. "i wish the flippin idiot had paced it right"

mossym

EC1000 wrote: »

Spanish federation apparently....

ah right, i presumed Murray as he was denied podium, and Mola had his series win already confirmed

AlanG

Seems amazing that there would be no grounds for punishment if this had made a significant impact on the results.

- Considerable outside assistance.
- Alistair clearly not trying to achieve his best result - throwing his brother over the line in front of him.

I wonder if a racer took dozens of pushes from a mate in the bike leg would it be allowed.

Fazz

AlanG wrote: »

Seems amazing that there would be no grounds for punishment if this had made a significant impact on the results.

- Considerable outside assistance.
- Alistair clearly not trying to achieve his best result - throwing his brother over the line in front of him.

I wonder if a racer took dozens of pushes from a mate in the bike leg would it be allowed.

You can receive help from another athlete so no penalty due.

Kinda similar to receiving a spare tube or gel from other athletes on the course.
Not outside assistance, more inside assistance.

9Crimes

I would have thought that 'inside' assistance would be ok.
However if you watch the clip, JB collapses into a volunteer's arms briefly, does that constitute outside assistance? - Even if the volunteer is manning a water station and helping athletes by handing out water?
As it panned out it had no impact on world series, however if it had resulted in JB winning and my name was Mario Mola, I would not be a happy camper!

mossym

Fazz wrote: »

You can receive help from another athlete so no penalty due.

Kinda similar to receiving a spare tube or gel from other athletes on the course.
Not outside assistance, more inside assistance.

surely could be classed as pacing though if you wanted to.

Kyserium

Athletes can assist each other within a race, they just cant have outside assistance from a non-participating person ...are we seeing the same video? there is no way could you call that pacing .. the lad's head is all over the place .. just about keeping one foot in front of the other to pratically walk over the line..I say bravo brownlee brothers ..

mossym

Kyserium wrote: »

the lad's head is all over the place .. just about keeping one foot in front of the other to pratically walk over the line.

exactly. so without Alistair there would he have been maintaining that pace? so if you are using another athlete to maintain your pace, how is that not pacing? i've admittedly never read the pacing rules specifically, but i'd be very surprised if you couldn't argue that is pacing. that can be tonights homework.

and athletes are allowed to aid each other, but only in specific ways. you can give them a gel. you can't give them a wheel or a bike(that breaks other rules than aid as well). if alistair had done a track style slingshot for johnny halfway through the bike would that have been okay?

Ceepo

mossym wrote: »

exactly. so without Alistair there would he have been maintaining that pace? so if you are using another athlete to maintain your pace, how is that not pacing? i've admittedly never read the pacing rules specifically, but i'd be very surprised if you couldn't argue that is pacing. that can be tonights homework.

and athletes are allowed to aid each other, but only in specific ways. you can give them a gel. you can't give them a wheel or a bike(that breaks other rules than aid as well). if alistair had done a track style slingshot for johnny halfway through the bike would that have been okay?

Theres a difference in giving a wheel etc, because that would mean the other person could not continue with their race.
Regarding pacing on the run. Everyone would use some level of pacing of the athletes in front or beside them, ( think of Gwen and Spirig at the Olympics) they helped each other for a while so much so that they even had a bit of verbal at one point about who would take the lead. The difference is it wasn't an "outside" assistance. Same as the boys wasn't from an outside source.

mossym

Ceepo wrote: »

Theres a difference in giving a wheel etc, because that would mean the other person could not continue with their race.

exactly, so the aid from one competitor to another rule is gated by other rules.

Ceepo wrote: »

Regarding pacing on the run. Everyone would use some level of pacing of the athletes in front or beside them, ( think of Gwen and Spirig at the Olympics) they helped each other for a while so much so that they even had a bit of verbal at one point about who would take the lead. The difference is it wasn't an "outside" assistance. Same as the boys wasn't from an outside source.

it gets into a really grey area especially given the use of domestiques by the bigger federations. but i'm not sure i agree with that at all. on the gwen/spirig example, neither one would have wanted the other beside them, they would have been only too glad for the other to pull up or slow down. Maybe a little sorry as they were now running alone which is harder, but they didn't want the other person there. trying to run as fast as the person you are trying to beat isn't pacing.

at the end of that race, Alistair threw johnny across the finish line. was that why gwen wanted spirig beside her, to make sure she finished ahead of her and was ready to push her across the line?

if trying to run faster than someone beside you, or staying shoulder to shoulder so you can beat them in a sprint is pacing, then we need to either do away with the pacing rule or stop all races. there is a big difference between that though and intentionally running your race not to win to help another.

now, a fun discussion would be whethere alistair stayed beside Johnny jsut long enough in Rio to ensure he had silver before he beat him. now that could mess up all arguements!!

Ceepo

mossym wrote: »

exactly, so the aid from one competitor to another rule is gated by other rules.


it gets into a really grey area especially given the use of domestiques by the bigger federations. but i'm not sure i agree with that at all. on the gwen/spirig example, neither one would have wanted the other beside them, they would have been only too glad for the other to pull up or slow down. Maybe a little sorry as they were now running alone which is harder, but they didn't want the other person there. trying to run as fast as the person you are trying to beat isn't pacing.

at the end of that race, Alistair threw johnny across the finish line. was that why gwen wanted spirig beside her, to make sure she finished ahead of her and was ready to push her across the line?

if trying to run faster than someone beside you, or staying shoulder to shoulder so you can beat them in a sprint is pacing, then we need to either do away with the pacing rule or stop all races. there is a big difference between that though and intentionally running your race not to win to help another.

now, a fun discussion would be whethere alistair stayed beside Johnny jsut long enough in Rio to ensure he had silver before he beat him. now that could mess up all arguements!!

No sure it broke any rules all the same.
Full agree that it was assistance, but it wasn't outside assistance.
From my knowledge there is no rule that you can't help someone as long as you still can continue yourself.

mossym

Ceepo wrote: »

No sure it broke any rules all the same.
Full agree that it was assistance, but it wasn't outside assistance.
From my knowledge there is no rule that you can't help someone as long as you still can continue yourself.

most race brief I've attended in Ireland, which is itu rules, has stated that pacing is not allowed. as the briefing is for athletes only, my understanding was that competitor to competitor pacing isn't allowed, even though I've experienced (i.e. seen)it, even at the national champs.

maybe my understanding is incorrect. but if it i don't see why they say it as part of the briefing

strewelpeter

If Mola had lost out it would have been a very different story.
Inspirational and touching as it is it would be just too far beyond the spirit of the 'aid from one competitor to another rule is allowed' to be acceptable.
The guy ran too fast to burn Mola off, it was a tactic that was looking like it would give him a world title until he ran out of gas.

Wanderer78

Fair play to him, be hard to pass off your own brother though. These guy's are impressive to watch

MojoMaker

Of all the clips from triathlon in 2016 I guarantee only two will still be shown regularly in 2036 - Alistair's olympic gold win, and this clip.

A proud moment in sport regardless of results or placings - bravo these two skinny kids.

bopperr

MojoMaker wrote: »

Of all the clips from triathlon in 2016 I guarantee only two will still be shown regularly in 2036 - Alistair's olympic gold win, and this clip.

A proud moment in sport regardless of results or placings - bravo these two skinny kids.

probably just this clip I think!!

Will be the making of these guys in terms of widespread sporting awareness (Particularly in the UK) Great for the sport as well.

The way both can push themselves is amazing. They are awesome to watch.

Kyserium

funny that isn't it mossym, ... "athletes are allowed to aid each other, but only in specific ways. you can give them a gel." (emphasis on word "athletes") ..

Alas, it is a moot point at this stage, neither has been DQ'd, nor penalties given .. case closed Hurrah. Roll on next season.

catweazle

Alistair not showing the love to his opponents though!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/hero-brownlee-brother-accused-of-taking-swimming-hat-and-goggles-of-fellow-triathlon-competitor-35064310.html

I have always though Jonny is more likeable than Alistair. I remember Alistair being beaten by Jonny for the first time in a WTS sprint and it was all I was terrible today, worst performance etc etc and not a hint of well done Jonny after it. I suppose that streak of arrogance is why he is a two time Olympic champion though

bopperr

Clearly not a good relationship with Mola coming out with this stuff. And the Spanish appealing the race result.

Unless he is sure he should keep his mouth shut. Brits were guilty of this a few years ago with Harry Wilshire tackling Gomez.

mossym

Kyserium wrote: »

funny that isn't it mossym, ... "athletes are allowed to aid each other, but only in specific ways. you can give them a gel." (emphasis on word "athletes") ..

Alas, it is a moot point at this stage, neither has been DQ'd, nor penalties given .. case closed Hurrah. Roll on next season.

and put the emphasis on the words only in specific ways and you have a completely different meaning.

i'm not sure what your point is. every race brief i have been at under itu rules stresses no pacing by athletes for athletes. what this discussion has highlighted is a lack of clarity on what the rules mean , and probably even what constitutes pacing. probably even on the bit about athletes can run or walk, alistair pushed/threw johnny over the line, is that allowed?

given recent events at races here, it would be good to have a bit more clarity. although i will say it's done the sport of triathlon no harm, have heard people who never knew anything about the sport talking about this.

anyway, what's this about season over? biggest race of the season is yet to happen...

Kurt.Godel

Alistair is now second favourite to win BBC Sports Personality of the Year, his odds have been flying down over the past couple of days (circa 7/2 at the moment).

68 lost souls

Kurt.Godel wrote: »

Alistair is now second favourite to win BBC Sports Personality of the Year, his odds have been flying down over the past couple of days (circa 7/2 at the moment).

Surely the two British rowing lads from Skib should win sports personality of the year amazing what British athletes can do :pac:

mossym

see mola was complaining alistair intentionally pulled his hat and googles off in the swim, was a video of them after the race having agood old chat about it, no audio but from the gestures it was pretty obvious what the topic of discussion was. either that or mola was a character from v and was trying to pull his face off.

only surprise was that mola was anywhere close enough to AB for him to be able to do that, if it even happened

MojoMaker

Swim and sight better without goggles anyway so he'd be doing him a favour.

I'd say a lot of sh1t goes down in that pack at that level and it's no knitting circle