So who played the housing market and Lost?

Smoked Tuna

Sure I was 18 and making €700 a week after tax laboring on the building sites. I remember my parents trying to get me to get a mortgage when I was 21 on a house in 2006 or 2007.

Well its a good thing that didn't happen but you won't be surprised to hear I don't work in construction anymore despite the recent pick up I have given up on it a long time ago.

meeeeh

intheclouds wrote: »

I remember going to a friends wedding in Greece. I only knew some of his other mates. It was 2004 and the conversation around the table was about peoples "property portfolios". I was still renting, hadnt a clue what was going on. These were all professionals, software engineers, nurses, teachers etc... One guy with 4 properties in Dublin and 1 in Bulgaria openly laughed when i said that the next year I might look into buying a small apartment.

Id love to know how those property portfolios are going for them now.

Isn't it funny how property portfolio conversations disappeared from dinner parties. It's not that some people were not still making money out of it but I think it was mostly people who were never bragging about it.

Cupra280

This thread is bringing back lots of memories of when I was a first time buyer, buying back in 2005.

I just hope that we never go back to those days.....it was absolute carnage. I can remember the scrums trying to get into apartments in Ongar, people falling over themselves. The Estate Agents couldn't give a damn. I remember asking one a question, and being told that if I didn't want to buy it somebody else would.

I am now in an apartment that I am very happy with. It is a nice size and has nice view. It mostly has nice neighbours. My biggest problem with it is about management fees and people thinking that they don't have to pay these. But that is a different story for a different thread.

andekwarhola

Wouldn't say lost badly as such but like many we hoped it'd be our second last house and had hoped to move on from where we are before now. The house, however, is only just nudging now what we paid for it 11 years ago and we're not getting any younger and the kids are settled here.

We really wanted to trade up to a more traditional semi d type estate in the same area: we live in a modern (with all the usual connotations of no front garden - albeit a decent back garden - the mess of managed development living and 'shabbier' aesthetics) townhouse /apartment mix development.

That said, we've enough room for our family, the area is settled and quiet (suburban Dublin, on the Luas line) and we've decent neighbours so it could be a lot worse.

thierry14

Negative_G wrote: »

I could see the madness as a teenager. I understood that economies were cyclical and I could clearly see everywhere I went that the economy was heavily reliant on the construction industry and as a result, the housing industry.

We just go lucky

We were born in the late 80's and were only just kids then.

If we had been born in the late 70's and been twenty something adults we would have been very very tempted too.

I would have bought, I know I would.

Rents were crazy, economy was all positive, 100% mortgages, media filled with house,house.

I can remember a lot of conversations during dinner with my parents of such and such buying land, houses, done well for themselves, sensible young couple.

Geuze

Bought mid 2005, paid 278k.

Borrowed 155k, tracker mortgage, then switched to LTV tracker mortgage with 0.5% margin.

Spent at least 40k on upgrades.

Now worth maybe 220k.

No negative equity, very low interest = 30-40 per month.

Capital loss = 100,000 approx.

thierry14

wicked_wytch wrote: »

we lost big time, bought 2 bed apartment in 2006 off plans, moved in 2007, didn't borrow as much as we could have and were both on decent salaries working as proffesionals in the pharmaceutical industry. Even if the central bank rules were around back then we'd still be in this position as we didn't borrow a million miles away from the current requirements so I'm not conviced of how effective they will be with 'protecting' people against negative equity. Theyre effective in cooling the market alright as they make sure people like us can't move or trade up and free up starter homes.

We borrowed 4 times our salary, with a 10% deposit, not a million miles off the current requirements and we're still over 100k in negative equity

Now we're married two young kids family of 4 in a 2 bedroom apartment thats becoming more and more unsuitable and we can't move because of the huge amount of negative equity we have. We've been trying to save but its going to take years while we're paying morgage(granted on a tracker so not massive) and childcare for two kids in creche full time (this is a killer and costs more than our mortgage) add to that that we were unfortunate enough to need ivf to have our two beautiful kids which basically has sucked up all savings for the last couple of years and we're in a rightly crap situation where we're stuck in unsuitable accomodation with limited abillity to save large amounts and rapidly approaching 40 and the stage where we just won't get a mortgage if we can't buy a new place soon.

Our only hope is that over the next 2 years we can save a 10% deposit, not a chance of being able to save up 20%, whittle down the negative equity to a managable amount through house price increases and paying down the mortgage, and just hope that the bank will give us a negative equity mortgage that will allow us to buy a house within commuting distance in the country of our jobs in dublin. Makes me sick to see our property still only worth 48% of what we paid for it and to think of what we could get for that amount now!!

Its a truly crap situation to be in, but it is what it is, there are a lot of people out there like us who didn't borrow and spend recklessly, just wanted to get a home for a few years and hopefully trade up when the kids come along but are now stuck in unsuitable accomodation and unable to move despite being in good jobs with good salaries and saving our asses off, being sensible with money, its sickening.

On the bright side id say your saving alot compared to rent on a 2 bed in Dublin, id imagine your mortgage is a good bit lower than current rent prices

Prices are going up too.

Going off topic but a lot of pharma companies are expanding in Limerick.

Salaries close to Dublin

Commuting towns like Newcastle West, Croom, Bruff have plentiful 4 bed houses for under 130k.

I know as I bought one for 115k this year.

I also lived in Dublin and moved to Limerick, down 7k salary, but house cost 180k less.

Just a thought

Tigerandahalf

Pretty sad reading some of the tales here especially people with kids in apartments.
There really needs to be something done to allow young families to get a home suitable for rearing a family. People simply won't have kids and the problems that will cause further down the line.

With 3 bed semi ds hitting close to €400,000 in Dublin it seems no lessons have been learnt. When interest rates increase people will be in trouble again.
The Central Bank rules are doing nothing but protecting the banks and their shareholders. Doing nothing for the taxpayer. If a homeowner loses their job the house will be repossessed and the taxpayer will end up picking up the tab to rehouse the family.

I would love to see compulsory purchase orders being looked at so that proper development could be done. But FG are a landowners' party (along with ff) so I can't see any change there.

I know I took the thread off topic so apologies.

mitresize5

My particular group of Captain Hindsight mates where shoving coke up the noses in the mid noughties while the rest of the lads were settling down, getting married having kids and buying over priced family homes that are now in negative equity.

Amazingly 10 years later they have re written history and pitched themselves as economic gurus who saw what was coming and were so very clever as not to get on the property ladder. No concept that they are 10 years behind on life, careers, relationships, kids etc ...

I wouldn't swap it for the life of me. We're just one of a group who came of age and who wanted to do what generations of Irish people have done before or since, find a girl, settle down, buy a house and start a family. We were just very unlucky with the timing.

meeeeh

And new figures came out today that in 2015 first time buyers are about 25% of all house buyers. In 2010 that number was around 50%. When you start taking into account inability to buy, insane rent situation and higher interest rates in comparison to those on tracker, it will turn out that a lot of people who bought in the height of boom could have been a lot worse off if they didn't buy.

ash23

Bought in 2006 an split with partner in 2008. We still own the house we bought and it's about 100k in negative equity.

I was renting privately (single parent - father not involved) and it was crippling but I couldn't get a mortgage or Local Authority housing as I was a "home owner" even though I don't live in the house or have anything to do with it other than in name as the bank won't allow me to come off the mortgage. We try every now and then but they are still insistent I remain on it.

I got sick and couldn't get rent allowance as I wasn't seen as having a housing need so ended up homeless as couldn't pay rent. Luckily I had friends I could stay with and when my illness abated, I went back to work and found another house to rent before that was sold from under me and it was back to homelessness again as my illness flared up.

Back to work, back to renting and thankfully someone was looking down on me as a new sheltered housing scheme was built in my area and the charity had some units they were allowed to allocate themselves as opposed to from the LA housing list.
So I got myself a little house with low rent and a small garden.

Security is everything and the rental market is so volatile that I can completely see why people still want to buy. I would buy again if I was renting from a private LL, despite being badly stung in the previous boom.

ush

mitresize5 wrote: »

My particular group of Captain Hindsight mates where shoving coke up the noses in the mid noughties while the rest of the lads were settling down, getting married having kids and buying over priced family homes that are now in negative equity.

Amazingly 10 years later they have re written history and pitched themselves as economic gurus who saw what was coming and were so very clever as not to get on the property ladder. No concept that they are 10 years behind on life, careers, relationships, kids etc ...

I wouldn't swap it for the life of me. We're just one of a group who came of age and who wanted to do what generations of Irish people have done before or since, find a girl, settle down, buy a house and start a family. We were just very unlucky with the timing.

How can someone be 10 years behind on life? Also, wasn't keeping up with the Joneses what got Ireland into a mess. Better off not comparing.

mitresize5

ush wrote: »

How can someone be 10 years behind on life? Also, wasn't keeping up with the Joneses what got Ireland into a mess. Better off not comparing.

Ten years behind on life:
Approaching 40's and now decide want to have kids but they/partners have fertility issues.

Bitching why there careers arent where they want to be now i.e where their mates careers are.

How prices might be lower but cant get a mortgage due to central bank rules.

And i cant see how wanting a house to start a family is keeping up with the Jones

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Pretty sad reading some of the tales here especially people with kids in apartments.
There really needs to be something done to allow young families to get a home suitable for rearing a family. People simply won't have kids and the problems that will cause further down the line.

With 3 bed semi ds hitting close to €400,000 in Dublin it seems no lessons have been learnt.

What's wrong with kids in apartments?
That to me is the big issue with Irish people, everyone wants a house. You don't need a house to raise a family.
Surely the houses in Dublin are 400k because the demand is there? Everyone wants to buy one, therefore they're going to be expensive.

L1011

mitresize5 wrote: »

Bitching why there careers arent where they want to be now i.e where their mates careers are.

The people in my social circle I knew who were stuck with huge NE mortgages during the crash were unable to take even the most minor risk in their careers. If they got laid off it was in to the first job going to meet the repayments and often they're stuck there now.

Whereas I was able to jump around as I wanted, more or less and advance significantly. Buying a house does not improve your career prospects - if anything, being tied to a hefty mortgage removes all desire for it.

Kids later is quite common now - and the money not lost on negative equity can usually more than pay for some fertility assistance, if required.

MeatTwoVeg

bubblypop wrote:

What's wrong with kids in apartments? That to me is the big issue with Irish people, everyone wants a house. You don't need a house to raise a family.

Most of the apartments built in Ireland aren't suitable for raising a family.
They've been designed for urban 20-somthings as a first step on the ladder.
Presumably it's possible to have family-friendly developments, but it's a moot point, as currently we don't.

Tigerandahalf

bubblypop wrote: »

What's wrong with kids in apartments?
That to me is the big issue with Irish people, everyone wants a house. You don't need a house to raise a family.
Surely the houses in Dublin are 400k because the demand is there? Everyone wants to buy one, therefore they're going to be expensive.

Nothing wrong as long as there are options for 3/4 bed units. 1 and 2 beds aren't adequate if boys and girls are in the family.
I would be in favour of 10 - 20 block units. There are advantages re having shared spaces, storage facilities and costs shared out among owners like refuse.
Many 3/4 bed houses have tiny gardens and lack storage space.

Thespoofer

Smoked Tuna wrote: »

Sure I was 18 and making €700 a week after tax laboring on the building sites. I remember my parents trying to get me to get a mortgage when I was 21 on a house in 2006 or 2007.

Well its a good thing that didn't happen but you won't be surprised to hear I don't work in construction anymore despite the recent pick up I have given up on it a long time ago.

Genuine question, why did you give up on it ( construction )? Did you move in to a new career ?

Ms2011

Won't know whether we will have made a loss or not until next year when we will try to sell but basically we bought a 3 bed terrace house in Dublin in Dec '08 for 262k, as of our mortgage statement from last year we still owed 230k, houses selling in our area for 170-180k.
We bought a second house in 2015 (a doer upper) for cash in an area we want to settle in (not Dublin). We intend to move into the second house next July, just a question as to what to do with our first house.
Ideally we could sell our first house & break even. Failing that we'd hope our bank would let us sell & make up the difference in a personal loan.
Our last resort would be to leave the house empty with a relative keeping an eye on it, we have no interest in becoming landlords & could keeping making our mortgage payments if necessary until the NE disappears.

worded

The majority of ppl wanted a roof over their head to raise a family.
I hope everyone can cope with their decisions and can lead good lives and it doesn't lead to too much stress on them and theirs

This, "I have no sympathy" BS is so arrogant to read
Not everyone is an economist, working family's are heroes in my eyes

We weren't put here to suffer

sunsetter

"My particular group of Captain Hindsight mates where shoving coke up the noses in the mid noughties while the rest of the lads were settling down, getting married having kids and buying over priced family homes that are now in negative equity.

Amazingly 10 years later they have re written history and pitched themselves as economic gurus who saw what was coming and were so very clever as not to get on the property ladder. No concept that they are 10 years behind on life, careers, relationships, kids etc ...

I wouldn't swap it for the life of me. We're just one of a group who came of age and who wanted to do what generations of Irish people have done before or since, find a girl, settle down, buy a house and start a family. We were just very unlucky with the timing."

Sounds bitter, some people don't want to follow the sheeple and many who didn't are extremely happy with no negative equity, lots of life experience, no stress of kids and cash in their pockets

bren2002

Ms2011 wrote: »

Our last resort would be to leave the house empty with a relative keeping an eye on it, we have no interest in becoming landlords & could keeping making our mortgage payments if necessary until the NE disappears.

Would you consider airbnb? There are companies who will come in and clean and reset the house for the next booking. It takes away the element of landlord stresses and horror tenants.

sunsetter

I traveled the world, had some amazing experiences, didn't succumb to peer pressure of having kids or buying. I look much healthier than many of my peers who got caught in the boom, and I have a lot more money than them now.

There are a lot of people who are not so smug now

MeatTwoVeg

sunsetter wrote:

There are a lot of people who are not so smug now

He said without any apparent irony.

worded

sunsetter wrote: »

I traveled the world, had some amazing experiences, didn't succumb to peer pressure of having kids or buying. I look much healthier than many of my peers who got caught in the boom, and I have a lot more money than them now.

There are a lot of people who are not so smug now

Peer pressure of having kids? It's an instinct to reproduce.

A lot of people are financially castrated here, not being able to have even a first kid let alone a second or third, the working poor that can't put a roof over their heads.

athtrasna

Mod note
Please don't get sidetracked, this thread seeks people who lost in the property market. It's not for people to gloat.

scrummonkey

athtrasna wrote: »

Mod note
Please don't get sidetracked, this thread seeks people who lost in the property market. It's not for people to gloat.

Indeed. When I first saw the opening post I sadly supposed the discussion would soon decend into one of "I told you so" and "only yourself to blame " etc etc. Some people just can't find it in themselves to empathise , but seem to gleefully rejoice in others misfortune. How depressing.

intheclouds

athtrasna wrote: »

Mod note
Please don't get sidetracked, this thread seeks people who lost in the property market. It's not for people to gloat.

Its literally unbelievable to me how nasty people have become on the internet.

Threads like this make me want to throw the computer in the bin.

wicked_wytch

Nothing, if they are built to cater for families, irish apartment developments are not. And as it happens the apartment we bought thankfully is quite large (we did have some foresight and bought a large apartment should we be there longer than the 5-7 years we anticipated), probably half the reason we're in so much negative equity, it cost more than the other apartments in the development but its still an apartment, that comes with minimal storage, and no outside space for kids to play other than a small second floor balcony which is not really the safest for toddlers who love to climb. When we bought this apartment 10 years ago there was a playground in the plans, due to the crash this never got build and now if we let our children play in the communal courtyard we end up with complaints sent to us by the management company after receiving complaints from neighbours about children 'screetching' in the common areas. Some people living in apartments do not want to hear children playing and constantly complain about them playing in the communal courtyards, aparently communal spaces are only yours to use if your not a child and sit there quietly. There are signs saying no ball games running or cycling in the development. Nearby apartments full of students or young proffesionals having parties keep our kids awake at night. It is not a nice or suitable place for a child to grow up. And while we're luckier than most, in that our apartment is bigger than most 2 beds so we're not quite on top of each other, many are not. Kids come with a lot of stuff and apartments simply don't have the storage.

I have a boy and a girl and while at 3 and 1.5 its fine for them to share a room now, in the not too distant future they're going to need their own privacy. Wouldn't be so much of a problem if they were both boys or girls but they're not.

ArnieSilvia

thierry14 wrote:

I also lived in Dublin and moved to Limerick, down 7k salary, but house cost 180k less

I tried Limerick and it was bitter experience, back to Dublin. I left job paying good money because it wasn't worth it

Lots of pharma jobs if you have qualifications but no job for your spouse and no places in schools for kids.

Houses getting expensive due to influx of contract workers

In my experience it's neither place for families or singles but I stress it's only an opinion.

Commuter places haven't got much to offer either plus some rural roads are shocking