So who played the housing market and Lost?

wicked_wytch

wicked_wytch wrote: »

.......... if we let our children play in the communal courtyard we end up with complaints sent to us by the management company after receiving complaints from neighbours about children 'screetching' in the common areas. Some people living in apartments do not want to hear children playing and constantly complain about them playing in the communal courtyards, ............

That's very grim to hear, I live in a complex that has houses and apts with a decent sized green in the centre. Kids on roller skates & bikes whizzing about the road surrounding the green and more playing football on the green.

They can be a bit noisy but sure that's life imo, it's not a particularly annoying noise.

Wouldn't have thought it bothered people.

Dardania

wicked_wytch wrote: »

Nothing, if they are built to cater for families, irish apartment developments are not. And as it happens the apartment we bought thankfully is quite large (we did have some foresight and bought a large apartment should we be there longer than the 5-7 years we anticipated), probably half the reason we're in so much negative equity, it cost more than the other apartments in the development but its still an apartment, that comes with minimal storage, and no outside space for kids to play other than a small second floor balcony which is not really the safest for toddlers who love to climb. When we bought this apartment 10 years ago there was a playground in the plans, due to the crash this never got build and now if we let our children play in the communal courtyard we end up with complaints sent to us by the management company after receiving complaints from neighbours about children 'screetching' in the common areas. Some people living in apartments do not want to hear children playing and constantly complain about them playing in the communal courtyards, aparently communal spaces are only yours to use if your not a child and sit there quietly. There are signs saying no ball games running or cycling in the development. Nearby apartments full of students or young proffesionals having parties keep our kids awake at night. It is not a nice or suitable place for a child to grow up. And while we're luckier than most, in that our apartment is bigger than most 2 beds so we're not quite on top of each other, many are not. Kids come with a lot of stuff and apartments simply don't have the storage.

I have a boy and a girl and while at 3 and 1.5 its fine for them to share a room now, in the not too distant future they're going to need their own privacy. Wouldn't be so much of a problem if they were both boys or girls but they're not.

Are you on the management committee / residents association? As a stern PFO should be issued at anyone that critcises children playing reasonably. Similarly to the management company - they work for you.

I have my eye on the Cherrywood development coming up by Hines, to move to, and I'd be very keen if I did get an apartment there that it was reasonable for family life

BronsonTB

I bought a 3 bed semi for 172k in 2006.
Current valuation 105k.

Rural location so will take a long time before the outstanding mortgage covers the value at the current rates.....

Snakeblood

manonboard wrote: »

I would of lost a fair bit but the affordable housing scheme really saved me.
My 1 bed apartment was selling for 197k at boom time. On the scheme, I am not allowed sell for 10 years but i got the apartment at 127k.

Its worth about 120kish now so I am very lucky. I'm very grateful to the social people for running such a scheme. It really helped many of us who were just never going to be able to buy to do so.

It's small, However Im happy in it. its warm. Well built. and safe. I'll never be able to have a family in it so i do need to move sometime in the next 5 years, but im financially safe due to the housing scheme.

I got an affordable housing flat, in Citywest, not really near anything at the time, no decent transport links, it was supposedly 245 at 'full value' but I got it for 150k. Just me on my own at the time, not planning on moving or stretching beyond that. Then I met someone and we had a kid, and the crash got worse. I lost my job. We were allowed sell, SDCC took the hit on their 100k of the total sale price, I got away paying 5 grand in addition. I think it might be worth pursuing getting permission to sell if you were interested/situation changed. Also i think the rule was you can't sell for 10 years, then after that, the councils share of what you sell for is reduced by 10% p.a.

Lost all my savings and owed a little bit, but I managed to rent a house for the family. I still think about trying to sell that thing and shaking with fear that it wouldn't happen, and that we'd be stuck there for years. I imagine there were a lot of people worse off than me. I'm not sure the affordable housing was a great scheme, it was a bandaid on a larger problem that needed tackling.

wicked_wytch

Yes, I'm on the residents committee and our management company has been handed over to us and we rotate directorship, unfortunately one of the biggest complainants about the kids making noise when playing is also on the committee. Personally I love to hear all the kids playing during the summer, it gives the place a real sense of community which is rare for an apartment development, but apartments tend to attract young or older singles or newlyweds who tend either to not have children or don't want children, besides theres always one

Don't get me wrong, I take these things with a pinch of salt and have and will continue to speak up on our committee on behalf of people with families in the development and politely tell her and anyone else being so petty to PFO, but the point is I shouldn't have to fight a battle for my family to live in my home that I paid a fortune for and work hard for. They are unfortunately simply not suitable. At the same time it could be a lot worse, our development is well managed, with an active residents committee, good neighbours for the most part and is overall a nice development, that thankfully has been handed over to the residents, but still, its not suited to families and the bottom line is we want to move, can afford to move, (except for having an appropriate deposit) but just can't due to negative equity.

Tigerandahalf

I have often wondered if this country would be better off out of the Euro currency. I know there is the whole multinational thing but most of them are only here for tax reasons.

If we had our own currency money could have been printed to prop up the banks' balance sheets and people could have been given some sort of deal to alleviate the really bad negative equity some people are in.

Plus the developers who paid huge money for land parcels could have had the assets seized and the land made available for building.

The current government policy appears to be to allow prices to go back to the boom era so these land values can be realised. In truth all that is happening is the debt is been passed onto house purchasers.

If people can't have children due to being in apartments or unable/delayed in buying a home we will end up like Germany bringing in refugees to prop up the system in 20/30 years time. Those pensions of the future need lots of workers paying tax.

We have compulsory purchase orders to build key infrastructure like roads and rail. Surely houses should also be part of it.

As a % of the population there probably isn't as many in -ive equity trouble (some in -ive equity are managing away) as there are unemployed.

Essentially, it's not a huge problem, some are getting themselves out of trouble, some looking for help.

I don't think it will effect birth rates etc drastically.

Villa05

Tigerandahalf wrote:

The current government policy appears to be to allow prices to go back to the boom era so these land values can be realised. In truth all that is happening is the debt is been passed onto house purchasers.

Changing the currency! I'm not so sure when as you describe it has been successive governments that are the problem

Nama sold an apartment building of 1, 2. And 3 bed units close to Tallaght hospital for less than 100k per unit to vulture funds, yet at the same time many wards are closed in hospitals due to lack of nurses as there salaries will not cover rent

athtrasna

Folks please, thread is going wildly off topic. Changing currency in no way answers the question at hand.

thierry14

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

I tried Limerick and it was bitter experience, back to Dublin. I left job paying good money because it wasn't worth it

Lots of pharma jobs if you have qualifications but no job for your spouse and no places in schools for kids.

Houses getting expensive due to influx of contract workers

In my experience it's neither place for families or singles but I stress it's only an opinion.

Commuter places haven't got much to offer either plus some rural roads are shocking

I don't know

Newcastle West for example is a mix of good quality national road and motorway road to get to Limerick ( 25 - 30 min commute )

5 bed for 120k

http://www.daft.ie/11230959

If you have qualifications and jobs are available, I think it's unwise to stay in expensive Dublin if you don't want financial burden

meeeeh

Well didn't Iceland have interest rate around 15% after the crash. I wouldn't fancy that and the negative equity. I think it very much depends on the individual situation. I suspect we are not in negative equity but we live in area full of one off houses so the price will vary. Anyway even if we were the total interest on 325k mortgage at current rates is around 50k. I am aware it won't last for ever but we do giggle every time we open post from our mortgage provider. I am also in no doubt that if we were for some reason unable to pay the mortgage bank would be all over us like a bad rash. And I suspect they would be a lot less sympathetic to us than to someone with worse interest rates and negative equity.

Mortgage is a long term loan and at different stages you are either a winner or a looser. But those of us who bought long term homes will be ok whatever the equity if we can service the loan. It is a lot harder for those trapped in unsustainable accommodation or unable to afford repayments. Considering the rental situation, high number of cash buyers, unfavourable interest rates for new mortgages the gloating by some here might be a bit premature.

seamus

thierry14 wrote: »

If you have qualifications and jobs are available, I think it's unwise to stay in expensive Dublin if you don't want financial burden

At the end of the day, things aren't always as simple as, "Sure just move out of Dublin and buy something cheaper".
Especially where children are involved, but even just in the case of family, few people want to move a 60 minute drive away from family and friends and the other support networks you've built up.
In that case you may be swapping financial burdens for social and personal burdens.

There was a thread recently discussing whether people prefer urban or rural, and for one person their reason for loving rural might be a reason why another person hates it.

This thing of "only 45 minutes from X" was one of the big drivers of insane prices the last time and why some people got badly burned with a mortgage on a half-finished house in the middle of nowhere. They were sold this idea that paying €400k for an apartment just outside the M50 was insanity when you could get a 4-bed house in ruralish Co. Meath for €300k. Completely ignoring the travel, recreational and social downsides of the latter.

In your example, it would be like telling someone working in Dublin to get a house in Clane. Sure it's only a 25-30 minute drive (at maximum speed at 4am)

Toots

Yeah it was like when we were buying our place and the estate agent said "oh and it's only 10 minutes to the luas" which would be true if you had access to a jet pack. I remember laughing when she said it and she looked very offended but we were local to the area and knew good and well that the luas was about a 30 minute fast walk away. If someone bought an apartment near me and thought the luas was that close they'd be in for a bit of a shock.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ThisRegard

seamus wrote: »

At the end of the day, things aren't always as simple as, "Sure just move out of Dublin and buy something cheaper".
Especially where children are involved, but even just in the case of family, few people want to move a 60 minute drive away from family and friends and the other support networks you've built up.
In that case you may be swapping financial burdens for social and personal burdens.

There was a thread recently discussing whether people prefer urban or rural, and for one person their reason for loving rural might be a reason why another person hates it.

We're mulling over purchasing the house which will see us to retirement. Initially we wanted somewhere rural out on its own and looked at a few. However when we took our kids into account everything you just mentioned came into play and knocked it on the head. We didn't want to spend the next 15/20 years arranging playdates and acting as taxi drivers.

sunsetter

"He said without any apparent irony."

I'm so glad I didn't suffer losing in the housing boom

Snakeblood

Toots wrote: »

Yeah it was like when we were buying our place and the estate agent said "oh and it's only 10 minutes to the luas" which would be true if you had access to a jet pack. I remember laughing when she said it and she looked very offended but we were local to the area and knew good and well that the luas was about a 30 minute fast walk away. If someone bought an apartment near me and thought the luas was that close they'd be in for a bit of a shock.

I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy or liking or respect, or even tolerance, now I think about it, for estate agents, but if someone says it's X minutes away from Y, then I'll always try it. To be charitable, people misjudge time and distance frequently. Someone who doesn't check everything first is asking for trouble.

seamus

Toots wrote: »

Yeah it was like when we were buying our place and the estate agent said "oh and it's only 10 minutes to the luas" which would be true if you had access to a jet pack. I remember laughing when she said it and she looked very offended but we were local to the area and knew good and well that the luas was about a 30 minute fast walk away. If someone bought an apartment near me and thought the luas was that close they'd be in for a bit of a shock.

I remember looking at Aiken's village in the boom times and the literature talking about a 20 minute walk to the Luas. Maybe if you'd stuck on your hiking boots and went across fields and over walls, it was.
At the time parts of Aiken's village were a ten minute walk from the main road, never mind the Luas. The Luas stopped at Sandyford and there was no pedestrian route to Kilgobbin road.

The amount of crap peddled was incredible.

thierry14

seamus wrote: »

At the end of the day, things aren't always as simple as, "Sure just move out of Dublin and buy something cheaper".
Especially where children are involved, but even just in the case of family, few people want to move a 60 minute drive away from family and friends and the other support networks you've built up.
In that case you may be swapping financial burdens for social and personal burdens.

There was a thread recently discussing whether people prefer urban or rural, and for one person their reason for loving rural might be a reason why another person hates it.

This thing of "only 45 minutes from X" was one of the big drivers of insane prices the last time and why some people got badly burned with a mortgage on a half-finished house in the middle of nowhere. They were sold this idea that paying €400k for an apartment just outside the M50 was insanity when you could get a 4-bed house in ruralish Co. Meath for €300k. Completely ignoring the travel, recreational and social downsides of the latter.

In your example, it would be like telling someone working in Dublin to get a house in Clane. Sure it's only a 25-30 minute drive (at maximum speed at 4am)

Point taken

Not really a fair comparison

Prices in Clane are almost Dublin region prices, all 270k plus, no financial saving moving there.

Newcastle West example I gave houses are circa 120k and Limerick generally well above 200k for similar nice estate etc

Can't compare traffic in Limerick and Dublin either, Dublin is far worse, especially M50 and if u work in city centre.

Point I am trying to make is 2 working pharmaceutical professionals can easily get 50k+ salaries in Limerick now with Regeneron, Pfizer, Johnson etc and realistic commuter towns have 4 beds for 120k

Price of a house for nearly joint yearly salary

Your not going to find anything in Dublin like that.

Understand support network, family, will be an issue to some

Was just giving OP an idea, as some don't see a world outside Dublin and huge mortgages

SarahMollie

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy or liking or respect, or even tolerance, now I think about it, for estate agents, but if someone says it's X minutes away from Y, then I'll always try it. To be charitable, people misjudge time and distance frequently. Someone who doesn't check everything first is asking for trouble.

This is absolutely a case of buyer beware. I know there were a tonne of posters earlier on in the thread basically castigating people who are now in negative equity for not having a better grasp of economics and basically being sheep for wanting to buy a home, which as I've already stated is too much to expect of the average punter.

But....taking an EA's word for it that the Luas or whatever is X minutes walk from the property....this is something anyone can check wiht their own two feet. When I bought my place, I first google mapped the journey from the property to all the local things that I might want to walk to (Luas 10 minutes, village shopping center, 10 minutes, park 12 minutes, local centra, 4 minutes) and then drove all around the area to make sure that was roughly in keeping with my expectations from my research. Once I was sale agreed, I went back a few times to check I was still happy and did some walking around.

This is not too much to expect a person to do on the biggest purchase of their lives.

Dardania

SarahMollie wrote: »

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy or liking or respect, or even tolerance, now I think about it, for estate agents, but if someone says it's X minutes away from Y, then I'll always try it. To be charitable, people misjudge time and distance frequently. Someone who doesn't check everything first is asking for trouble.

This is absolutely a case of buyer beware. I know there were a tonne of posters earlier on in the thread basically castigating people who are now in negative equity for not having a better grasp of economics and basically being sheep for wanting to buy a home, which as I've already stated is too much to expect of the average punter.

But....taking an EA's word for it that the Luas or whatever is X minutes walk from the property....this is something anyone can check wiht their own two feet. When I bought my place, I first google mapped the journey from the property to all the local things that I might want to walk to (Luas 10 minutes, village shopping center, 10 minutes, park 12 minutes, local centra, 4 minutes) and then drove all around the area to make sure that was roughly in keeping with my expectations from my research. Once I was sale agreed, I went back a few times to check I was still happy and did some walking around.

This is not too much to expect a person to do on the biggest purchase of their lives.

Whilst I agree with you (and a great website called: https://www.walkscore.com/ now looks at it for you too)
your last point is where people may have diverged:

This is not too much to expect a person to do on the biggest purchase of their lives.

I think alot of those that "lost" didn't view their property as the biggest of their lives - they saw it as a stepping stone on the way to their biggest...

SarahMollie

Dardania wrote: »

Whilst I agree with you (and a great website called: https://www.walkscore.com/ now looks at it for you too)
your last point is where people may have diverged:

This is not too much to expect a person to do on the biggest purchase of their lives.

I think alot of those that "lost" didn't view their property as the biggest of their lives - they saw it as a stepping stone on the way to their biggest...

Oh absolutely, my property is a stepping stone, but I was still careful to make sure that it was where is said it was!

To clarify - it was the biggest purchase of my life to date

For those who deem to have played and lost there are factors to consider as for most it's not even half time yet

- if you have a tracker you won't have spent loads on interest
- if you don't have a tracker than paying a few quid extra off could/should be considered instead of saving the cash in some/many cases
- you might be a goal or two down but there's a lot to play for still :pac:

HIB

Negative_G wrote: »

This isn't a 'I told you so' crusade. I simply fail to believe that so many people thought that the train wouldn't come off the tracks at some point.

The blinkers were most definitely engaged by an awful lot of people who unfortunately paid the price.

Those who had the biggest blinkers on of all were the banks and the bondholders, as it turned out. Lending too much money to an inflated property/construction industry. They didn't pay any price for their mistakes though. Only ordinary Joe soaps have to do that.

Smoked Tuna

Thespoofer wrote: »

Genuine question, why did you give up on it ( construction )? Did you move in to a new career ?

Why did I give up? Combination of factors:

- Previous company went out of business.
- Construction industry collapsed 2008-2009
- Thought it would get better but it only got worse over the subsequent years.
- Filthy noisy working conditions on building site portacabins or temporary offices
- Lack of women in the workplace
- Long hours e.g expected to work 12 hours a day and maybe weekends too, and for terrible pay
- Aversion to the risk of being forced to emigrate
- Aversion to the possibility of being sent to work against my will in the UK or Europe by Irish companies operating in these regions
- Other countries have the same issues but particularly obvious in Ireland in the bust
- Sick of managing the paperwork of people who more often than not don't like doing paperwork and are terrible at it or in fairness to them sometimes they can't even read or write (tradesmen)
- No mortgage or kids so easier decision to take the risk to bail out of the industry

Stealthfins

Negative_G wrote:

What prompted me to post initially was my continued surprise that people didn't see an issue with the situation they were getting themselves into.

And the banks won in the end they got a lot of property back and when the good times roll they'll make it all back.

A lot of people slagged me off because I only had one house,now they're telling me I did the right thing.

The best houses to have bought during the boom would have been the terraced houses in housing estates that people left to get more prosperous looking houses,because they were attractive to people who could get rent allowance.
And on the welfare system.....

Done deal in my books

hairyslug

110k difference in what I sold my house for compared to what I bought it for so yeah, lost quite bad

pilly

bigpink wrote: »

Wow thats so young to buy a place.How did ye get the loan?

100% mortgages back then don't forget.