is Mourinho a busted flush?

Duck Soup

Startling statistic from the Irish Times today: "Mourinho has now suffered 16 defeats in 34 games, more than Mark Hughes at Stoke City".

Is this end of of TSO's specialness? In a nutshell, have the other coaches now got his number and surpassed him?

Or has he just lost his touch, along with losing the Real Madrid and Chelsea dressing rooms?

gimmick

Are you suggesting that Jose and Man Utd are done?

Duck Soup

gimmick wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Jose and Man Utd are done?

Personal opinion? United have too much financial clout to fall away too far, but Guardiola - and Klopp - look like they're making teams of real quality and distinction for the future.

God knows what's happened to Jose's man management abilities, though.

Nalz

gimmick wrote: »

Are you suggesting that Jose and Man Utd are done?

its Wayne Rooneys fault.

Gringo180

"Specialist in Failure"

xabi

I think its too early for a "are Jose and UTD done thread" - next week should be fine to start it.

DeanAustin

No.

GavRedKing

Hard to tell, its been a seriously bad 12 months for Jose though and after losing his dream job he doesnt look happy but I wouldnt be writing him off just yet.

machiavellianme

Good question. I have no idea if he is or isn't. Agree with the others. Utd have too much financial clout to fall away but that doesn't stop my wishful thinking.

Rackstar

Looks to me like Mourniho has stagnated. The game is evolving but he hasn't evolved with it in the last few years.

Panthro

Reckon he needs to go away from football for a year or two and stay completely out of the spot light. His heads not in it.
Said the same about a year ago.

crkball6

Rackstar wrote: »

Looks to me like Mourniho has stagnated. The game is evolving but he hasn't evolved with it in the last few years.

Let me get this straight.

Jose wins the league, then the only other manager to win it since Claudio Ranieri who plays a basic 4-4-2 and now Jose is stagnated?

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Bizarre.

crkball6

Panthro wrote: »

Said the same about a year ago.

When he was the current premiership championship manager

wut.

GavRedKing

Panthro wrote: »

Reckon he needs to go away from football for a year or two and stay completely out of the spot light. His heads not in it.
Said the same about a year ago.

It was something we mentioned in the Chelsea thread before he was sacked. Take few months off and come back in the summer ready to go.

He paid for his job not just for the results but by his actions and words towards the players too. It was a shocking defence of a title and it all started in pre-season, the writing was well on the wall before we lost to Palace in August last year.

I still think he'll come good but if he fails at Utd, he doesnt have many other options available to him.

Giggsy11

Season ago he won the league at canter and a year later he is busted flush.

There is kneejerk and there is this thread.

Panthro

crkball6 wrote: »

When he was the current premiership championship manager

wut.

When he'd managed 11 points or so in the first 10 games.

lawred2

He's out of date

crkball6

Panthro wrote: »

When he'd managed 11 points or so in the first 10 games.

So you thought the current manager of the premiership champions should take a break from football?

Panthro

crkball6 wrote: »

So you thought the current manager of the premiership champions should take a break from football?

I said something wasn't right, and suggested his head wasn't in the game.

crkball6

He's gone from the first united manager to win first 4 competitive matches.

To he should be fired and out the door.

comedy show.

Panthro

crkball6 wrote: »

He's gone from the first united manager to win first 4 competitive matches.

To he should be fired and out the door.

comedy show.

Nobody's saying that.
Rival fans will want him there as long as possible based on the last three games!

crkball6

Panthro wrote: »

Nobody's saying that.
Rival fans will want him there as long as possible based on the last three games!

Your right. Similar to united fans wanting Conte to stay at Chelsea after one of the worst tactical performances from any manager since Rafa at Liverpool.

Is Conte a busted flush?

Discuss. :pac:

GavRedKing

Panthro wrote: »

I said something wasn't right, and suggested his head wasn't in the game.

TBF, the Chelsea board done their best to make it one of the worse transfer windows in as long as I can remember.

Chasing Stones, gets Papy Djilobodji and Michael Hector.

That would make anyone go mad.

Harry Palmr

Have the rules changed, I thought this type of thread got a ban.

Panthro

crkball6 wrote: »

Is Conte a busted flush?

Discuss. :pac:

Start a thread.
Won't be half as fascinating as this one though!

weisses

Nalz wrote: »

its Wayne Rooneys fault.

No he blamed Shaw this time :rolleyes:

brevity

I think he needed a break to be honest. Last season with Chelsea drained him - you could say the Madrid job also has an effect on him.

That being said, he will probably do well with Utd but he's definitely not the man he once was.

grumpymunster

Panthro wrote: »

I said something wasn't right, and suggested his head wasn't in the game.

Absolutely his father was very ill at the time and quite clearly his head was not right, taking a break would have been the thing to do

GavRedKing

grumpymunster wrote: »

Absolutely his father was very ill at the time and quite clearly his head was not right, taking a break would have been the thing to do

He'll be grand, he'll win things with Utd and leave in 5-7 years and move on to international management and retire in the next 12 years.

Francie Barrett

Ridiculously early to be calling time on Mourinho. At the same time though, he's at a dangerous phase in his United career. A few bad results after Watford and he'll have the press on his back and players questioning him. I think once a manager loses the backing of players, then he's finished. LVG saw it at United, Mourinho himself saw it at Chelsea. For a manager like Mourinho, who is so dependent on building a certain type of team mentality, he is vulnerable to his authority being questioned.

Beastermc

Giggsy11 wrote:

Season ago he won the league at canter and a year later he is busted flush.

Giggsy11 wrote:

There is kneejerk and there is this thread.

But the differences in that season and this couldn't be more different, imo. That season you had a Chelsea team who had a fresh new striker in Costa, hot from 2/3 great seasons for atletico. Hazard playing out of his skin, Fabreags too was an inspired signing, matic alsowas superb. All, except for Hazard, were new and refreshing to the team, and were full of quality.

And who were the opposition? A United team under Van gaal who were never going to threaten, arsenal being arsenal, Liverpool under Rodgers scarred from Stevie's slip, a spurs team who were just starting out under potchetino and a soft City team under Pellegrini.

City were the only team capable of mounting a challenge against them, so what does he do? Sets out to not get beat. City were the only team looking to win in both those games (city fan here so could be biased!) But that's how I remember it. Add the fact that city were probably their own worst enemy that year and you get a situation which is not too unlike how Leicester won it last year, because it seemed no one else wanted to!

Even if you compare how the other teams played that Chelsea title winning year, they're were hardly no pressing teams in the league. So you had teams who would back off and try and contain Chelsea, who would be solid at the back with a midfield who would dominate and they would eventually get a goal through Hazard and Costa and that was the game won.

This year you have Liverpool, City and Spurs who are very adept at the pressing game. Mourinho has already been beaten by one of these and he will struggle in the remaining 5 games against these teams. Id be surprised if he gets 1 win in those 5 games. Like someone said about winning the first 4 games in a row, yes against Bournemouth and Southampton, United will win, as Chelsea did against nearly everybody that year. And sure they will improve and finish up in the tip 4 no doubt, but I can't see a serious title challenge coming from Old Trafford. Which is why you'd have to say Jose has stagnated as that's not good enough after spending the bones of 200m on players that are supposed to be ready made world class players bought for the here and now. I could well end up eating my words, but I'd bet that i won't.
( Sorry for the lengthy rant, just bored in work!)

That_Guy

He's great for a soundbite for the media and what not but he needs to just keep quiet and focus on progressing his tactics because he's had a really bad 12 months or so.

I'm not sure if he's living off past glories or there's something up with the playing staff he has but that being said, Man United have a good squad there. Something just doesn't seem to be clicking on a consistent basis for whatever reason.

He doesn't help himself when he almost makes everything about him. Can't be helpful in preparation when you have journalists asking players about "the managers comments about x, y and z'.

He's got proven pedigree in the Premier League but I don't think he's got the tools to really progress. I'm sure I might be made eat those words but the football is poisonous from what I've seen so far this season and they were badly outperformed by Manchester City.

He needs players to start stepping up to the mark and just drop Rooney because that whole circus around the "should he start/should he not" stuff is another distraction and he's clearly not performing.

There's a good manager in there somewhere but like Wenger, I think he's hit his limit as to where he can take teams. May not be a popular opinion.

Savman

Rackstar wrote: »

Looks to me like Mourniho has stagnated. The game is evolving but he hasn't evolved with it in the last few years.

Football hasn't evolved, it's going through a phase where high pressing is IN after a decade or so of tiki-tiki. Leicester won the league by playing a very old school counter attacking game, none of this is really revolutionary.

Back on topic, Jose cuts a forlorn figure and he'll find this one a tough stint, but I'd expect him and United to get stronger as the season progresses.

Mr. FoggPatches

crkball6 wrote: »

He's gone from the first united manager to win first 4 competitive matches.

To he should be fired and out the door.

comedy show.

sabat

Well if he loses say 8 in a row he has to go, so in simple terms he's about 3/8 of the way towards being sacked but the fixture list isn't too bad so he probably isn't in imminent danger. The interesting period is the run of games they have between Liverpool on Oct. 17 and Christmas-that's when we'll find out whether he is indeed busted or not.

PhlegmyMoses

A busted flush draw is something that had great potential but never realised it. A correct example of this might be Balotelli as a player or maybe somebody like Roy Keane as a manager. Mourinho is one of the best managers ever.

The correct title for this thread is "Is Jose Mourinho finished at the top level?" And from what I understand, those threads are banned.

For what it's worth, I can understand why people would have their reservations about him after his last season at Chelsea, but let's be real here. United were god awful the last three seasons, and unless he changed the whole team, an immediate impact is a tough ask for anybody. Give him a bit of time and space to do what he needs to, find his best eleven, and I believe we will see a resurgence.

5 games in is madness to be writing him off.

Hopefully he is though.

jaykay74

:rolleyes:

Stupid thread, 5 league matches with 3 wins. Not great but come on like

Richard Hillman

He has definitely lost his mystique. He is not the type or person to walk into a dressing room with the players aweing over him any more.

This whole "tactic" of freezing popular people out for no apparent reason is another thing that is falling flat.

Fergie got better with age.

Mourinho is getting more average with age.

RasTa

Why do people keep on using this stupid term "busted flush" when discussing football.

Busted flush doesn't just refer to poker

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

Why do people keep on using this stupid term "busted flush" when discussing football.

I blame sky...

rob316

The first few months back at Chelsea I though he had changed learned from his mistakes after Madrid, his football on display was brilliant and the players looked full of confidence but slowly but surely he regressed again. Lets be honest Chelsea absolutely labored and bored us to the finish line that season, the list of credible challengers were nil too.

He cultivates this victim image at the clubs he is at, - UEFA are pro Barca, the ref is out to get him because he spoke against them, the ref is out to get Costa. He created an absolute toxic relationship between Barca and Real while he was there.

You will never see a manager spit the dummy out faster when he doesn't get his way. I think his reputation has taken a large hammering and such has his confidence in his man management skills and that is his greatest strength, been able to motivate.

I don't think he us done but he needs to go away and re-educate himself, managers like Klopp, Pep, Pochettino are the future and he isn't getting with it.

He needs a leader to show up in that United dressing room, never have I seen such a spineless bunch of cowards play for United. Ferguson always had a strong personality or two, I see nothing in this United squad.

Liam McPoyle

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

A busted flush draw is something that had great potential but never realised it. A correct example of this might be Balotelli as a player or maybe somebody like Roy Keane as a manager. Mourinho is one of the best managers ever.

The correct title for this thread is "Is Jose Mourinho finished at the top level?" And from what I understand, those threads are banned.

For what it's worth, I can understand why people would have their reservations about him after his last season at Chelsea, but let's be real here. United were god awful the last three seasons, and unless he changed the whole team, an immediate impact is a tough ask for anybody. Give him a bit of time and space to do what he needs to, find his best eleven, and I believe we will see a resurgence.

Id thank this twice if I could.

Its clear there are still a lot of passengers in the squad.

Rooney is being shoehorned into the team for some unknown reason meaning that players that are better in that position are being left out.

One of our best players last year has been terribly out of sorts this year so far.

We have had 7 competitive games thus far and won 4.

There is clearly a wealth of talent in the team it's just a matter of getting it right and I've no doubt that Jose will get it right.

If next May comes and we fall outside the top 4 then eyebrows will rightly be raised. After the financial backing he has received then they would have to be.

But to question one of the most successful managers of all time after 3 defeats is completely witless.

Its wishful thinking from some, its hand wringing over reaction from others.

bucketybuck

I think people are still projecting past acts onto this seasons Mourinho, you even have one person talking about "soundbites" and "making everything about him" when lets be honest, he hasn't really said anything worth talking about since becoming United manager. He hasn't had any public spats, hasn't hit out at anybody in the press and beyond one bog-standard "the referee wasn't great" comment hasn't blamed anybody for anything. All he has really done is see the team that has been **** for 3 years play **** once again.

I'm a little disappointed in him, particularly with regards to the Rooney situation, but people are really jumping the gun with silly threads like this.

~Rebel~

RasTa wrote: »

Why do people keep on using this stupid term "busted flush" when discussing football.

"Is Mourinho a set of headphones, where the cable has kind of frayed on one side, and it still works sometimes, but you have to jiggle it first, and then not breath when you hit the sweet spot."

54and56

He's just carrying on with the poor decision making (shoehorning Rooney into the team, playing Pogba out of position etc) and divisive dressing room behavior (blaming his own players for their weak mentality) that got him sacked from Chelsea last season and will get him sacked again from Utd before the end of this season.

United appointed him on the basis of his historic rather than recent managerial performance and that was a huge mistake. Sir Bobby Charlton didn't want him anywhere near the club. They should have listened to his wisdom.

PropJoe10

It's only 5 games in, but there's a few worrying signs for United fans - namely the blaming of the players in the press. It looks to me as if he's still in siege mentality mode after Chelsea, and that'll only get worse if they lose to Leicester next week. They need some results to settle things down, and fast.

Iused2likebusts

He has 9 pts from 5 games a decent start. Its no shame to lose to city so we are really only talking about a loss to Watford with a very short turnaround from an away European game. A bit early for a thread like this to say the least.

gosplan

8 months ago.

Football people including Man U fans: 'it's possible Jose has lost his mojo'

Chelsea fans: 'knee jerk much?'

This week

Football people including Chelsea fans:
'It's possible Jose has lost his mojo'

Man U fans: 'overreact much?'



Overall though, it's obvious he's not quite where he was a few years back. He might still be fine but then equally it might go wrong.

Time will tell