is Mourinho a busted flush?

Mr.H

To be honest Man United will never fall too far away. Either will Jose.

United linger around a top 4 spot if they dont get things right but I dont see their financial clout not keeping them at least competing for a top 4 spot. Of course if they get it right they could dominate for another decade, but so far they aint getting it right.

Jose's problem is he is not Jose Mourinho....................

Jose Mourinho is a defensive counter attacking coach who plays out boring 1-0 wins. He ignores young players and complains to the media that everyone is out to get him and he dont give a s###

Jose at United is not allowed to play his defensive tactics. Hell I'll go one further. His first stint at Chelsea ended in a season where he was told to play attacking football. His second spell he tried to play attacking football. The United fans want him to play attacking football.....................

Trouble is it is like telling Wenger he must sign a world class player. If the manager abandons his own philosophies and does what he is told then he is not the same manager.

Jose can be a success at United. BUT he has to be allowed to play the way he has won at every club he has managed and that is boring 1-0 wins football. I just dont see the United board allowing it to happen.

The day he apologised to Eva in public is the day he was just another Louis van yes man

54and56

GavRedKing wrote: »

That part is wrong anyway for a start. KDB wanted out.

5 PL games in and already Mourinho has a few apologists, hardly surprising.

KDB in his own words - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kevin-de-bruyne-on-jose-mourinho-critique-at-chelsea-people-who-know-me-know-its-not-the-truth-a6987076.html Any wonder he "wanted to leave"? Mourinho didn't rate him so he left. Of course that's KDB's fault, what could any manager possibly have done? Oh, hang on, there is a better way of dealing with such a scenario, let the promising young player leave and then buy them back for £89m. You couldn't make it up :D:D:D

GavRedKing

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

5 PL games in and already Mourinho has a few apologists, hardly surprising.

KDB in his own words - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kevin-de-bruyne-on-jose-mourinho-critique-at-chelsea-people-who-know-me-know-its-not-the-truth-a6987076.html Any wonder he "wanted to leave"? Mourinho didn't rate him so he left. Of course that's KDB's fault, what could any manager possibly have done? Oh, hang on, there is a better way of dealing with such a scenario, let the promising young player leave and then buy them back for £89m. You couldn't make it up :D:D:D

I'm not apologising for Jose at all, quiet the opposite, I'd love to see him fail at Utd, becasue it would mean we've a better chance at the top 4 if Utd fall away.

KDB was on the back of a good loan spell and came back, done well in pre season and started the first 2 or 3 games for Chelsea. He was asked to perform in a different setup, usually wide right and he wasnt used to the donkey work Jose wants his support 3 to do, so I can see why he left but if a player can adapt or is unwilling too, theres not much you can do.

Under a different manager KDB would probably still be at Chelsea but thats for a different debate.

A blessing in disguise for KDB getting away from Mourinhio.

He's with a manager now that'll let him play his natural game

tayto lover

RoboKlopp wrote: »

A blessing in disguise for KDB getting away from Mourinhio.

He's with a manager now that'll let him play his natural game

Best player in the league at the minute.

Duck Soup

Duck Soup wrote: »

Personal opinion? United have too much financial clout to fall away too far, but Guardiola - and Klopp - look like they're making teams of real quality and distinction for the future.

God knows what's happened to Jose's man management abilities, though.

Perhaps if he showed a bit more humility and stop blaming defeats in the media solely on his players. That surely cant be helping his cause? That said id be slow to declare full scale crisis just yet. They have hit a blip though

crkball6

Deleted User wrote: »

stop blaming defeats in the media solely on his players. That surely cant be helping his cause? though

You must have heard a very edited press conference I heard him blaming himself,ref's and defenders not closing down.

Ferguson blamed defeats on players in public, Koeman called out barkley recently for poor performances etc in public.

What's the problem exactly? Are million dollar footballers so sensitive?

He didn't even say that much just he failed to close a player down, which he didn't. was it that bad what he said?

Eircom_Sucks

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Your debating skills are exceptional.

ill get an infraction or banned if i state what i want

so just observing for the mo

Flint Fredstone

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

ill get an infraction or banned if i state what i want

so just observing for the mo

If you can't answer a simple question without calling him names well what's the point in even getting involved?
He wasn't having a go at you. He asked you how many years other managers lasted at Madrid and Chelsea.
How could you not reply to that without being banned?

KaiserGunner

It's a bit early to be calling Mourinho a busted flush at Man Utd, hope it happens though. He has no excuses anyway if it all goes tits up as he brought in 4 first team players that he wanted and didn't have to worry about a budget in order to get them, which about 95% of managers in football have to be wary of.

He is losing a lot lately based on his last 30 matches or so. Would be nice to see him keep this going. Sure he will be gone from the premier league within 3 seasons anyway, unless he fancies giving it a go at Chelsea again.

54and56

KaiserGunner wrote: »

It's a bit early to be calling Mourinho a busted flush at Man Utd

If the reference period was just his time at Man Utd then I'd agree but the reality is he turned PL champions into utter scutter and their subsequent revival (relative revival) under Hiddink proves he was the source of their decline i.e. he gave the players extra time off and didn't have them fit enough (see the latest league table of KM's run in the first 5 PL matches for a continuation - http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/revealed-the-amazing-stat-that-shows-manchester-united-are-the-laziest-team-in-premier-league-35063753.html), he pi$$ed off players including his best player Hazard who went from PL player of the year to comparative dross last year and did the same with his staff e.g. abusing Eva Carneiro in public for doing her job.

Long may his tenure at Man Utd last as far as I'm concerned but from what I can see the Mourinho who has turned up at Old Trafford is the one who got himself fired from Chelsea last season not the one who won league titles with players willing to do anything for him and he is indeed therefore a busted flush.

Time will ultimately tell and I sincerely hope he's given lot's of it as he provides no end of entertainment (unlike the style of football he prefers to play) and controversy.

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought he was the only man for the job and that he was what United needed. I must say I am now having doubts.

The decision to buy Pogba and all that entailed was a red flag moment, and I thought he would be braver in dropping the likes of Fellaini and Rooney who I don't think are the answer.

His body language is what really concerns me though. In the past, he joined a club and was all smiles in the early stages; players liked him. He was charismatic, had fun, seemed to be enjoying it. Only in the final period of his club reigns would the smile fade and the snarl emerge. This time around I have seen little positivity from him. I heard some United fans saying this was a good thing as it showed he meant business from the start, but I would worry that it actually means he has lost some of the spark that made him the best manager in the world a few years back.

We know he has quality and intelligence. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that. But after bruising experiences at Madrid and Chelsea, I think there are valid questions to be asked over his mindset, his drive, his ability to inspire those around him, and is he actually up for this any more?

It's too soon to know the answers. Let's see how he is after ten games before we begin to judge. But I for one am concerned.

LuckyLloyd

The man who ran down that touch line at Old Trafford was 41. I'm not saying being 53 means a man is washed up, but a couple of year's off after the Chelsea stuff might have done him no harm.

Still way too early to be passing judgement on his Utd tenure mind.

K-9

PropJoe10 wrote: »

You can dress it up whatever way you like,but once you start mentioning players specifically in the press (especially when you're not winning games) it will take off and create headlines, which is the last thing he needs. And just to point out to you, if you use the wonder that is Google, you'll see that I'm in fact right - lots of major news agencies are now reporting on this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/manchester-united-shocked-jose-mourinho-treatment-luke-shaw-groin-injury-scan-watford-a7316621.html

http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2954104/jose-mourinho-questions-manchester-united-left-back-luke-shaw-at-watford

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2664508-jose-mourinho-comments-on-luke-shaw-after-manchester-uniteds-loss-to-watford

This creates negativity and bad headlines, which is exactly how he started failing at Chelsea. I personally couldn't care less, but you can interpret this whatever way you like - your way, or my way. Either way, he's getting negative headlines for calling out his players in the press that he can ill afford.

The problem going on press reports is that he wasn't supposed to criticise specific players in interviews. If that's is true it isn't great, but then people didn't really expect Mourinho to change, did they?

crkball6

crkball6 wrote: »

You must have heard a very edited press conference I heard him blaming himself,ref's and defenders not closing down.

Ferguson blamed defeats on players in public, Koeman called out barkley recently for poor performances etc in public.

What's the problem exactly? Are million dollar footballers so sensitive?

He didn't even say that much just he failed to close a player down, which he didn't. was it that bad what he said?

Unfortunately a good percent of them are. Look at the carry on with Yaya Toure for example. That said i dont like the other extreme where they are being treated with kid gloves in the media ala Wenger saying that they are working very hard to win etc either but i think criticise collectively if you must and take your own share of the blame too. In fairness i fell into that old trap of going by the headline with regards to Mourinho's latest criticism but he seemed to be doing alot of bus throwing at Chelsea last year. Even the medics received humiliating treatment.

gosplan

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Lol at the Arsenal fans :pac:
If Mourinho is a busted flush, what the actual f*ck is Wenger???

He's just different. Not nearly as successful but mainly different.

One thing though that Wenger does well is dragging his team through a slump.

Ideally it's something you shouldn't have to display but Jose couldn't manage it last year and assuming that a tactical change or two doesn't fix the Utd problem, then it's something he could do with figuring out.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Lol at the Arsenal fans :pac:
If Mourinho is a busted flush, what the actual f*ck is Wenger???

Id be a critic of Wenger and often wondered if we are due a change and still do.. but i would rather fail with Wenger (if failing even means continuing to at least get top four despite wanting to win the league/champions leagues), then let Mourinho anywhere near Arsenal.

He may have success at United yet and god knows there is huge pressure on him to do so, but at some stage or another.....it will all end in tears for United. He leaves a sour taste everywhere.

Flint Fredstone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Id be a critic of Wenger and often wondered if we are due a change and still do.. but i would rather fail with Wenger (if failing even means continuing to at least get top four despite wanting to win the league/champions leagues), then let Mourinho anywhere near Arsenal.

He may have success at United yet and god knows there is huge pressure on him to do so, but at some stage or another.....it will all end in tears for United. He leaves a sour taste everywhere.

That's all well and good but it's nothing to do with what I said.
Wenger is a much better example of a busted flush, if we have to use that term, than Mourinho.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

That's all well and good but it's nothing to do with what I said.
Wenger is a much better example of a busted flush, if we have to use that term, than Mourinho.

In terms of winning major trophies, your arguably correct, but in terms of continued stability at a club ill give Wenger his due, he remains somewhat consistent in this regard.

niallo27

All i can say is how great is Klopp as a manager while you all argue over who is worse.

gosplan

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

That's all well and good but it's nothing to do with what I said.
Wenger is a much better example of a busted flush, if we have to use that term, than Mourinho.

Yeah probably, but it doesn't address the point.

Personally I feel that Jose can fix this easily enough by just picking a better 11 and sticking people in the right positions.

However, people said when he signed that it wasn't guaranteed, that he was on the back of a couple of very acrimonious departures from clubs where he came fairly close to publicly losing the plot.

People said 'the bitterness is back, YES!' and 'it's great to be hated again, we're back where we belong'.

But it was a fair question to ask.

It's too early to say 'yes' or 'no' but the special one aura isn't nearly so strong these days and right now he has a big question mark over his head.

Saying 'well look at Wenger' doesn't change that.

Flint Fredstone

gosplan wrote: »

Yeah probably, but it doesn't address the point.

Personally I feel that Jose can fix this easily enough by just picking a better 11 and sticking people in the right positions.

However, people said when he signed that it wasn't guaranteed, that he was on the back of a couple of very acrimonious departures from clubs where he came fairly close to publicly losing the plot.

People said 'the bitterness is back, YES!' and 'it's great to be hated again, we're back where we belong'.

But it was a fair question to ask.

It's too early to say 'yes' or 'no' but the special one aura isn't nearly so strong these days and right now he has a big question mark over his head.

Saying 'well look at Wenger' doesn't change that.

I just found it funny that Arsenal supporters would be chiming in on this after 5 games into the league campaign, considering there wouldn't be a more appropriate name to put to the phrase busted flush than Wenger.

gosplan

niallo27 wrote: »

All i can say is how great is Klopp as a manager while you all argue over who is worse.

Yeah. Supporting Liverpool seems like a lot of fun right now.

Still, I've high hopes for Arsenal this year...for now.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I just found it funny that Arsenal supporters would be chiming in on this after 5 games into the league campaign, considering there wouldn't be a more appropriate name to put to the phrase busted flush than Wenger.

Ill take our busted flush to be honest.

Rayne Wooney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ill take our busted flush to be honest.

And that's Arsenal's problem right there, accepting mediocrity

niallo27

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And that's Arsenal's problem right there, accepting mediocrity

Well finishing top 4 every year is the type of mediocrity that most Utd fans would be more than accepting of right now.

RasTa

Wegner only plays top pair top kicker.

niallo27 wrote: »

Well finishing top 4 every year is the type of mediocrity that most Utd fans would be more than accepting of right now.

Hmmmmm checks Liverpool's "history" over the past 8 years.....

8th, 6th, 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th, 7th.

Yet they still laugh at other teams like they are relevant.

Giggsy11

niallo27 wrote: »

Well finishing top 4 every year is the type of mediocrity that most Utd fans would be more than accepting of right now.

Nonsense. Would rather win the league, finish midtable and win the league than just finish 4th.

niallo27

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Nonsense. Would rather win the league, finish midtable and win the league than just finish 4th.

Yes but utd have finished midtable, top4 and then midtable again.

Flint Fredstone

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes but utd have finished midtable, top4 and then midtable again.

That doesn't mean we would be happy with finishing 4th every year. What part are you having trouble with here?

niallo27

RasTa wrote: »

Wegner only plays top pair top kicker.



Hmmmmm checks Liverpool's "history" over the past 8 years.....

8th, 6th, 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th, 7th.

Yet they still laugh at other teams like they are relevant.

I wasnt laughing though, i was pointing out that mediocrity that arsenal have experienced would have kept the last two managers in a job at Utd.

Potential Underachiever

I don't think he's a busted flush, he could be a missed up and down straight draw though or maybe even a double bellybuster gone awry, it's hard to tell.

greendom

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I just found it funny that Arsenal supporters would be chiming in on this after 5 games into the league campaign, considering there wouldn't be a more appropriate name to put to the phrase busted flush than Wenger.

This thread was about Mourinho. Is there a boards rule I was unaware of thst Arsenal fans aren't allowed to discuss the failings of other managers?

Mr.H

RasTa wrote:

Hmmmmm checks Liverpool's "history" over the past 8 years.....

8th, 6th, 2nd, 7th, 8th, 6th, 7th.

Yet they still laugh at other teams like they are relevant

When is the last time arsenal had an actual credible title challenge?

I'm sure united and arsenal fans would be more than happy to have klopp as manager as oppose to who they currently have

greendom

Mr.H wrote: »

When is the last time arsenal had an actual credible title challenge?

I'm sure united and arsenal fans would be more than happy to have klopp as manager as oppose to who they currently have

I'll reserve judgement on that

niallo27

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

That doesn't mean we would be happy with finishing 4th every year. What part are you having trouble with here?

I said accepting not happy.

RasTa

Mr.H wrote: »

When is the last time arsenal had an actual credible title challenge?

I'm sure united and arsenal fans would be more than happy to have klopp as manager as oppose to who they currently have

No and you would have to be stupid to think that 5 games into the season.

super_furry

I don't think the Manchester United job was the right job for him, because he can't play the kind of football that's brought him success there and he knows it.

Mourinho's success has been built around, tight, compact and defensive football and a lot of the time, it's not great to watch. He aware that United fans and the club won't settle for that kind of football and I don't doubt that when he was in talks for the job that he was told that. He was already overlooked as manager there once and he didn't join the club for a position of power.

I think he's in uncharted waters now and you can see that he's struggling to set his team up in the right way. He's trying to get United to play a game that against his coaching instincts and I think they're going to fall between what he wants and what he's expected to deliver.

Flint Fredstone

greendom wrote: »

This thread was about Mourinho. Is there a boards rule I was unaware of thst Arsenal fans aren't allowed to discuss the failings of other managers?

Is there one where I can't find something funny?

NIMAN

Lets give him a bit of time, eh?

The season's only started. OK I know he has a worse record than Van Gaal, and we all know he was clean useless, but lets give him this season and we will judge him on that.

Mr.H

greendom wrote: »

I'll reserve judgement on that

RasTa wrote: »

No and you would have to be stupid to think that 5 games into the season.

So ye wouldnt take a happy attacking manager who is good with the players the media and the fans?

greendom

Mr.H wrote: »

So ye wouldnt take a happy attacking manager who is good with the players the media and the fans?

We have that - ok maybe he's not always happy but I can live with that

greendom

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Is there one where I can't find something funny?

not that I'm aware of ?

Shanotheslayer

*Takes break from soccer from*

*comes back for a read*


Still a carousel of annoyance.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

That doesn't mean we would be happy with finishing 4th every year. What part are you having trouble with here?

Arsenal finished 2nd last season and 3rd the season prior? Not a league win but you cant say we're just finishing fourth every year. More than one of us having trouble

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

And that's Arsenal's problem right there, accepting mediocrity

I said id take our busted flush over a toxic meglomaniac. I didnt say anything about accepting mediocrity.

Flint Fredstone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Arsenal finished 2nd last season and 3rd the season prior? Not a league win but you cant say we're just finishing fourth every year. More than one of us having trouble

I didn't say anything about where Arsenal finished.

Flint Fredstone

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I didn't say anything about where Arsenal finished.

You said on an earlier post

That doesn't mean we would be happy with finishing 4th every year. What part are you having trouble with here?

So i said id clarify that Arsenal actually finished second. Its not ideal tbh but its important that people realise that Arsenal havent exactly set fourth as their optimal ambition

Last season was a real let down given that we were doing so well for a long time but id take it over the season that Mourinho had with Chelsea. That is what United are in for down the line.

mansize

Mr.H wrote: »

When is the last time arsenal had an actual credible title challenge?

I'm sure united and arsenal fans would be more than happy to have klopp as manager as oppose to who they currently have

Nope. Klopp's not got a great League Winning record tbf... :cool:

Flint Fredstone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You said on an earlier post

That doesn't mean we would be happy with finishing 4th every year. What part are you having trouble with here?

So i said id clarify that Arsenal actually finished second. Its not ideal tbh but its important that people realise that Arsenal havent exactly set fourth as their optimal ambition

Last season was a real let down given that we were doing so well for a long time but id take it over the season that Mourinho had with Chelsea. That is what United are in for down the line.

I wasn't talking about Arsenal. Niallo said finishing top 4 was the sort of mediocrity United fans would accept right now.

That's what I was replying to. I was saying we wouldn't be happy to finish 4th every season.