is Mourinho a busted flush?

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You're right, Klopps public discussion of Sakho's situation just like Jose's antics LOL - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/08/jurken-klopp-tells-mamadou-sakho-no-easy-route-back-liverpool

What antics? For Utd?

Flint Fredstone

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You're right, Klopps public discussion of Sakho's situation just like Jose's antics LOL - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/08/jurken-klopp-tells-mamadou-sakho-no-easy-route-back-liverpool

Jose hasn't done any worse at United yet.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Correct and he shouldn't have but he did.
Public, non-public...starting to make sense here?

So to your original point.
I know you like equations so this is what you equate to Jose throwing players under the bus?

"Anyone trying to compare that to Jose throwing his own players under the bus for being weak mentally and being the cause of their poor performances is just making excuses for Jose's behaviour."

Here's what Jose said.

“I was completely aware that we were not the perfect team, that we had lots of players who are not end products and can make their own mistakes,” Mourinho said. “My only doubt was the way they can cope with the negative moments that come sooner or later. I feel that some individuals probably feel too much pressure and that responsibility.

“But from a collective point of view I only have good things to say about them. If you analyse our three defeats in the last week, we were always the best team in the second half. We didn’t start well today but then in the second half the players showed quality, intensity, desire, commitment and ambition. And we lost again in our best moment."

“I can split this into three factors: one is the referee’s crucial mistakes – that’s not in my control. Against Man City you know what happened in minute 55 [when Claudio Bravo made the challenge on Wayne Rooney], today you know what happened for the first goal, against Feyenoord you know that the goal was in an offside position, so we were punished by these mistakes and I can’t do anything.

“The third thing is what is in my hands, which is the improvement of the team,the improvement of individuals, trying to stop with the defensive mistakes. I knew that I had a task because, for example, the first Man City goal and this second goal today, you can find an incredible similarity.This is tactical but it is also a mental attitude. It’s something that you don’t go there and in a couple of weeks everything becomes perfect. So we have to improve, no doubt, individually and collectively. And that’s my job because lady luck you don’t control and referees mistakes you don’t control.”

I read Jose is taking on the responsibility as manager to get his team in order.
Absolutely nothing in the slightest wrong with that.
In-fact there is a lot of positives to read from that in regards to how he addressed the team.

I admire your ability to ignore reality in order to defend the manager of your team, fair play to you.

You can put all the lipstick you like on an pig of a situation but at the end of the day it's still a pig of a situation

Now that your senior player is already briefing the media against Jose (much to G Neville's embarrassment) it seems there is plenty of legs left in this little debate

Carry on.

Andersonisgod

Pro. F wrote: »

You admitted to trolling this forum on your Twitter account too.

Sometimes I drop some real knowledge on here. This was one of those times.

Flint Fredstone

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sometimes I drop some real knowledge on here. This was one of those times.

So you're admitting to trolling here now too?

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I admire your ability to ignore reality in order to defend the manager of your team, fair play to you.

You can put all the lipstick you like on an pig of a situation but at the end of the day it's still a pig of a situation

Now that your senior player is already briefing the media against Jose (much to G Neville's embarrassment) it seems there is plenty of legs left in this little debate

Carry on.

What reality has been ignored?

To note you decided to commence said debate by quoting my original point. I will continue to carry on thanks very much.

Source for a the senior player leaking to the press?

Giggsy11

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You're right, Klopps public discussion of Sakho's situation just like Jose's antics LOL - https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/08/jurken-klopp-tells-mamadou-sakho-no-easy-route-back-liverpool

Lol

The Frenchman was banished on Tuesday after "three cases of indiscipline during Liverpool's tour... and is now facing an uncertain future", reports the Daily Telegraph.

The pair are now set for "crunch talks" over the defender's future next week, when Liverpool return from the US.

"He nearly missed the departure [of Liverpool's plane to San Francisco], he missed a treatment session and was late for a team meal," explained Klopp.

"I have to build a group here and we've got to start new here. I thought it maybe made sense for him to fly home to Liverpool. We have some rules and we have to respect them – if somebody gives me the feeling they are not respecting it I have to react."

Andersonisgod

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

So you're admitting to trolling here now too?

Uh oh, don't remember saying that but I'm not gonna respond to that I just wanted to note that I was right.

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Lol

Case and point
He nailed Sahko

GLaDOS

This is the worst thread I've ever read.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

You admitted to trolling this forum on your Twitter account too.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Sometimes I drop some real knowledge on here. This was one of those times.

Andersonisgod wrote: »

Uh oh, don't remember saying that but I'm not gonna respond to that I just wanted to note that I was right.

Exactly how it reads.

What have you been right about?

Andersonisgod

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Exactly how it reads.

What have you been right about?

Check my posts re: Mourinho and you'll see. Like looking into the future.

Mickeroo

Jose is the topic here people not other posters. Stick to it.

Arghus

It isn't so much that he's lost three games in a row that driving the debate, it's more that after last season's meltdown at Chelsea everyone knows that Jose does have the potential to lose the plot and everyone, to differing degrees, wonders if it's all kicking off again - of all the things people argue about regarding football, this is hardly any more stupid than most of them. It's this kind of nonsense that keeps us all entertained.

Whether Jose is actually losing it is hard to say really, every team can go through bad patches in a season where they lose several games on the bounce, but if United do lose the next one the media heat, rightly or wrongly, will start to increase markedly and everything could go into overdrive - after last year they are primed for the first sign of weakness or conflict. Jose has been a master manipulator of the media for years and I, for one, wouldn't have too much sympathy for him if he finds all that negative glare hard to handle when it doesn't suit.

Flint Fredstone

Arghus wrote: »

It isn't so much that he's lost three games in a row that driving the debate, it's more that after last season's meltdown at Chelsea everyone knows that Jose does have the potential to lose the plot and everyone, to differing degrees, wonders if it's all kicking off again - of all the things people argue about regarding football, this is hardly any more stupid than most of them. It's this kind of nonsense that keeps us all entertained.

Whether Jose is actually losing it is hard to say really, every team can go through bad patches in a season where they lose several games on the bounce, but if United do lose the next one the media heat, rightly or wrongly, will start to increase markedly and everything could go into overdrive - after last year they are primed for the first sign of weakness or conflict. Jose has been a master manipulator of the media for years and I, for one, wouldn't have too much sympathy for him if he finds all that negative glare hard to handle when it doesn't suit.

A sensible post in the midst of a pile of sh*te and drivel.
It will take a fair few more games to come to any meaningful conclusion.

This is a mentally frail United squad as seen over the past few years. That doesn't change overnight.

TheDoc

I'll be concerned if this continues into December and January. Not overly concerned now.

I'd say a few players might well be playing their way out of the club at this stage. One in particular springs to mind. It was a team on the floor that he got some early wins and now it's regressed a bit to type. He has my faith and backing to sort the team out, but I'm not so stupid to think its going to happen instantly. He will find a balance, a formation and a XI.

As much as Pep seems to be getting praise and comparisons for what he is doing at City, it just shows how people twist the narrative between the two of them to suit a persons agenda.

Also as someone who is not a Mourinho fan, but a United fan, I've had no issue with how he has conducted himself thus far. Players playing dog**** need to know about it privately and publicly. There is either a reaction, or time on the bench. Our club is too big to be catering to cotton wool individuals not liking their feelings hurt. Your either good enough and strong enough to play for United or your not. Mental strength is just as important and a reason so many people dont make it into professional football, nevermind ability.

The only issues I've had was with Schweinsteiger as I felt it was hasty and the player should have been given a chance. And fit and firing he is a player our team could get great use out of.

We just need the hard, ruthless Mourinho to show up. Van Gaal, for all his reputation, never did. The job dwarfed his authority a bit, and I never saw the Van Gaal I'd seen elsewhere. We need a confident Jose, confident in what he is doing, what he wants and the decisions he is making.

Very shortly I'm about to see if I have the real Mourinho, or if this job is about to engulf another top class manager. And that test is Rooney.

Potential Underachiever

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

A sensible post in the midst of a pile of sh*te and drivel.
It will take a fair few more games to come to any meaningful conclusion.

This is a mentally frail United squad as seen over the past few years. That doesn't change overnight.

I would suggest most Utd fans thought Jose would be an instant fix. I mean I lost count of the amount of times Utd fans posted saying everyone is talking about us now, everyone fears us because of Jose etc etc, then throwing a couple hundred million at players was definitely going to fix the squad too.

greendom

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And to be honest, most United fans would accept that. They'd also accept his defensive football as somebody alluded to above. We are looking for somebody to stabilise the club and take us back to winning ways.

I do find it baffling that some Liverpool and Arsenal fans are willing us to write him off considering they've spent the best part of two decades passionately defending objectively inferior managers - something I always respected. I get it from City and Chelsea fans because their club policy is very much to arrest a slump with a sacking - which to be fair, will probably be United's too, from now on - but even still, it's 5 games in!

As a rule Arsenal fans intensely dislike Mourinho

We'll take any chance to stick the knife in!

Potential Underachiever

greendom wrote: »

As a rule Arsenal fans intensely dislike Mourinho

We'll take any chance to stick the knife in!

As a rule most fans disliked Mourinho except Chelsea fans. But united fans seem to think it's only because he signed for them!

Buford T. Justice XIX

GavRedKing wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head there.

:rolleyes:

That's probably something that should be taken up in a feedback thread but it is a concern of Liverpool supporters.:)

Incidentally, any news on the last feedback thread?

Flint Fredstone

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

As a rule most fans disliked Mourinho except Chelsea fans. But united fans seem to think it's only because he signed for them!

I don't agree with that. Any United fan I know was aware that he was always disliked before he came. Some, including myself, had reservations about his appointment based on his behaviour in the past.

ricero

If the rumours of dressing room unrest are true and of the leaks then you feel its just other bad result or two away from jose and man united having a huge meltdown

Flint Fredstone

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's probably something that should be taken up in a feedback thread but it is a concern of Liverpool supporters.:)

Incidentally, any news on the last feedback thread?

Sh*t kicks off much worse in the United match threads when they lose when compared to a Liverpool match thread.
That's not an opinion or anything. It's plain to see with your own eyes.

super_furry

Don't think anyone can use Schweinsteiger as a stick to beat Mourinho. He came in, didn't fancy him and told him to leave - he chose not to. It's the same as City with Hart, Liverpool with Balotelli and if anything the criticism should be leveled at Schweinsteiger.

eagle eye

super_furry wrote: »

Don't think anyone can use Schweinsteiger as a stick to beat Mourinho. He came in, didn't fancy him and told him to leave - he chose not to. It's the same as City with Hart, Liverpool with Balotelli and if anything the criticism should be leveled at Schweinsteiger.

No you could not compare it to Balotelli because he got opportunities at Liverpool.

Also Hart made a big error at the Euros and came back from that tournament with question marks.

Schweinsteiger didn't play badly at the Euros and imo should at least have been give the opportunity to show what he can do. When they go out and buy Pogba and then won't even put a man who can play his position on the bench you have to ask questions.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's probably something that should be taken up in a feedback thread but it is a concern of Liverpool supporters.:)

Incidentally, any news on the last feedback thread?

The last feedback thread seems difficult to locate atm?

GavRedKing

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

The last feedback thread seems difficult to locate atm?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99880095

This one?

K-9

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Lol

Slightly different to comments on playing performance! Klopp has defended (the irony) Moreno when he felt he was coming in for OTT criticism.

The press reported that shaw was a bit pissed because Jose was supposed to have said that players wouldn't be singled out for criticism. If that's true it isn't a good sign.

Anyway it's still way to early for the press meltdown we are getting, he has lost 2 League game FFS. The same press thought they knew how the season would pan out after 3 games.

Buford T. Justice XIX

GavRedKing wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99880095

This one?

That's the one:)


Any news?

GavRedKing

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

That's the one:)


Any news?

I'll post an updated thread in the coming days once I get some input from the Mod team.

I've been kicking this down the road myself and nearly forgot about it what with the Euros taking place and all.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

What reality has been ignored?

To note you decided to commence said debate by quoting my original point. I will continue to carry on thanks very much.

Source for a the senior player leaking to the press?

Players fury as Jose Mourinho 'nastier and more personal than Alex Ferguson' ever was

LOL

I'll leave it here. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/players-fury-as-jose-mourinho-nastier-and-more-personal-than-alex-ferguson-ever-was-35066089.html

I really hope Jose's team thumps Northampton tonight, it would be a shame for the pantomime to end too early.

Cantona's Collars

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I really hope Jose's team thumps Northampton tonight, it would be a shame for the pantomime to end too early.

And you pop into the United thread and expect to be taken seriously?

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Players fury as Jose Mourinho 'nastier and more personal than Alex Ferguson' ever was

LOL

I'll leave it here. http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/manchester-united/players-fury-as-jose-mourinho-nastier-and-more-personal-than-alex-ferguson-ever-was-35066089.html

I really hope Jose's team thumps Northampton tonight, it would be a shame for the pantomime to end too early.

What source? It's all just speculation and nothing more.
This is the same thing that's doing the rounds with nothing but "The Sun" or some other tabloid as the root of the source.
You must gobble up every sort of nonsense article you ever read.
Also you have yet to point out the credible source for the player leak.

As for the part in bold.....coming across slightly bitter but understandable from reading what you have posted so far. Very hard to take seriously.

Unrelated to Jose but more relating to these "credible" sources people keep claiming are valid.
Thanks to The Doc

*

Climbdown

‘Mourinho is also set to axe captain Wayne Rooney for Saturday’s clash with Leicester following another poor performance at Vicarage Road’ – Neil Ashton, The Sun, September 20.

‘Rooney is in need of rest and a period to reflect on a difficult start to life under the new boss. He may well get that chance by sitting out Saturday’s lunchtime clash with Leicester’ – Neil Ashton, The Sun, September 21.

‘Axe’ to ‘in need of rest and period to reflect’? Half-way to completing a U-turn, there.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Source for a the senior player leaking to the press?

Will red Cafe do ya? http://www.redcafe.net/threads/details-about-leaks-at-united.419544 or indeed if you join the dots from your own teams discussion thread on Boards - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101108469&postcount=4557 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101106409&postcount=4534 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101107137&postcount=4543 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101107139&postcount=4544 you can see who die hard ITK Man U fans are pointing the finger at.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Very hard to take seriously.

Look at the entertainment that's being provided off the field rather than on it, long may it last. Seriously!!

Je_suis_Jean

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Will red Cafe do ya? http://www.redcafe.net/threads/details-about-leaks-at-united.419544 or indeed if you join the dots from your own teams discussion thread on Boards - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101108469&postcount=4557 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101106409&postcount=4534 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101107137&postcount=4543 plus http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101107139&postcount=4544 you can see who die hard ITK Man U fans are pointing the finger at.

What others posters in the United thread speculate about that's their own business.

Again your "credible" source from redcafe is still speculation or hearsay.

Unless it comes from the mouths of a United team member / staff then it's all speculation.
Same with transfers. Same with injury reports, team status, tactics and quotes from management and team members at press conferences.

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Unrelated to Jose but more relating to these "credible" sources people keep claiming are valid.
Thanks to The Doc

*

Climbdown

‘Mourinho is also set to axe captain Wayne Rooney for Saturday’s clash with Leicester following another poor performance at Vicarage Road’ – Neil Ashton, The Sun, September 20.

‘Rooney is in need of rest and a period to reflect on a difficult start to life under the new boss. He may well get that chance by sitting out Saturday’s lunchtime clash with Leicester’ – Neil Ashton, The Sun, September 21.

‘Axe’ to ‘in need of rest and period to reflect’? Half-way to completing a U-turn, there.

What's the difference between Jose "axing" Rooney on Saturday and telling him he needs "rest and a period to reflect on a difficult start to life under the new boss"? Both = being dropped. Axing is calling it what it is, calling it a rest like Rooney somehow suggested it or got a Doctors note requesting he not be picked on Saturday is just plain old PR which not many would choose to believe or to classify as some sort of half U turn

54and56

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Unless it comes from the mouths of a United team member / staff then it's all speculation.

You know why journalists protect their "sources" https://www.nuj.org.uk/campaigns/safeguarding-journalists-and-their-sources/ don't you? So their identity remains confidential and they can keep a supply of inside info alive as long as possible.

If your logic is followed no sources exist unless they put the information they supply to journalists on the record which kind of defeats the whole point of being a source.

OK, you win. There isn't an ex SAF era Man U player who also went with England to the Euro's this summer briefing journalists to protect his own position and further his personal agenda. Of course not. The journalists are all making it up.

Liam McPoyle

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You know why journalists protect their "sources" https://www.nuj.org.uk/campaigns/safeguarding-journalists-and-their-sources/ don't you? So their identity remains confidential and they can keep a supply of inside info alive as long as possible.

If your logic is followed no sources exist unless they put the information they supply to journalists on the record which kind of defeats the whole point of being a source.

OK, you win. There isn't an ex SAF era Man U player who also went with England to the Euro's this summer briefing journalists to protect his own position and further his personal agenda. Of course not. The journalists are all making it up.

One would nearly have to admire your determination in trying to make something out of this.

The amount of posts from you scrambling to try and prove a point, about a team and manager you clearly hate, shows real commitment to the cause.

And ye lads go on about United fans being obsessed with LFC?

El

Oh

El

Bobby Baccala

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

One would nearly have to admire your determination in trying to make something out of this.

The amount of posts from you scrambling to try and prove a point, about a team and manager you clearly hate, shows real commitment to the cause.

And ye lads go on about United fans being obsessed with LFC?

El

Oh

El

It only seems to be Liverpool fans on this forum that think rival fans are obsessed with them.

Flint Fredstone

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

One would nearly have to admire your determination in trying to make something out of this.

The amount of posts from you scrambling to try and prove a point, about a team and manager you clearly hate, shows real commitment to the cause.

And ye lads go on about United fans being obsessed with LFC?

El

Oh

El

But next time he's in the United thread he will be making a genuine point and we are just too partisan to realise...

Buford T. Justice XIX

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

But next time he's in the United thread he will be making a genuine point and we are just too partisan to realise...

At least you're honest enough to admit it:pac:


Busted flush is too soon to call, maybe he will pull it around but in the meantime, I'll be enjoying every second of squirming by their club and fans.:)

54and56

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

One would nearly have to admire your determination in trying to make something out of this.

The amount of posts from you scrambling to try and prove a point, about a team and manager you clearly hate, shows real commitment to the cause.

And ye lads go on about United fans being obsessed with LFC?

El

Oh

El

Thank you for raising the white flag.

54and56

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

But next time he's in the fan boyUnited thread he will be making a genuine point and we are just too partisan to realise...

Na, made the mistake of confusing that thread with an actual discussion thread where points and issues would be discussed on their merit but won't be wasting my time engaging there unless the incestuous fan boy culture changes which I don't see happening any time soon.

I will of course keep reading it as it too is a great source of fiction and humour.

Flint Fredstone

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Na, made the mistake of confusing that thread with an actual discussion thread where points and issues would be discussed on their merit but won't be wasting my time engaging there unless the incestuous fan boy culture changes which I don't see happening any time soon.

I will of course keep reading it as it too is a great source of fiction and humour.

Fanboy? Cringe...
Suppose I should call you a h8er or something in response?

54and56

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Suppose I should call you a h8er or something in response?

Why? I don't hate anyone or anything. Can't be ar$ed with such negative energy.

FWIW I think Utd have done brilliantly over the last 25 years/SAF era and have set a new standard in terms of consistently winning trophies which others (my own club included) seek to emulate but now Utd are themselves struggling to maintain that standard post SAF which is hardly surprising. It's been a rough ride with Moyes not really getting out of the blocks at all and was kind of frozen in the spotlights then LVG arriving with a big reputation but not delivering so it's nervous times if SAF replacement #3 doesn't work out.

I disliked the way Jose manages from his first stint at Chelsea and by that I mean the way he treats people which I think has gotten worse and worse as the years roll by.

My view is he's lost his mojo. The 53 year old Jose now in charge at OT doesn't have the energy and drive which were a big part of his early success. Instead the passive aggressive side of his management style has mushroomed. On the one hand he is all friendly to the players http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/29/jose-mourinho-is-like-a-friend-to-manchester-united-players-and-has-brought-a-winning-mentality-to-club-says-wayne-rooney-6037628/ and gives them extra time off but on the other he publicly slates them for bad results.

Given the way he turned a PL winning team into dross last year and has started out at OT I think the writing is on the wall and that's a genuine belief which some die hard Utd fans may take as a biased attack on their club but it isn't, it's my interpretation of what I see unfolding with the latest event being someone senior in the dressing room briefing journalists against him.

Sometimes you are so close to something or its so important to you that you don't even know you're in denial and sometimes you need to be a disinterested observer in order to see the wood from the trees.

Time will tell I guess.

niallo27

Everyone is so tribal on this forum, I love it in fairness. Its admirable so much of us care a lot more than we really should about a football club.

54and56

niallo27 wrote: »

Everyone is so tribal on this forum, I love it in fairness. Its admirable so much of us care a lot more than we really should about a football club.

True!! Better than talking politics though eh?

Flint Fredstone

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Why? I don't hate anyone or anything. Can't be ar$ed with such negative energy.

FWIW I think Utd have done brilliantly over the last 25 years/SAF era and have set a new standard in terms of consistently winning trophies which others (my own club included) seek to emulate but now Utd are themselves struggling to maintain that standard post SAF which is hardly surprising. It's been a rough ride with Moyes not really getting out of the blocks at all and was kind of frozen in the spotlights then LVG arriving with a big reputation but not delivering so it's nervous times if SAF replacement #3 doesn't work out.

I disliked the way Jose manages from his first stint at Chelsea and by that I mean the way he treats people which I think has gotten worse and worse as the years roll by.

My view is he's lost his mojo. The 53 year old Jose now in charge at OT doesn't have the energy and drive which were a big part of his early success. Instead the passive aggressive side of his management style has mushroomed. On the one hand he is all friendly to the players http://metro.co.uk/2016/07/29/jose-mourinho-is-like-a-friend-to-manchester-united-players-and-has-brought-a-winning-mentality-to-club-says-wayne-rooney-6037628/ and gives them extra time off but on the other he publicly slates them for bad results.

Given the way he turned a PL winning team into dross last year and has started out at OT I think the writing is on the wall and that's a genuine belief which some die hard Utd fans may take as a biased attack on their club but it isn't, it's my interpretation of what I see unfolding with the latest event being someone senior in the dressing room briefing journalists against him.

Sometimes you are so close to something or its so important to you that you don't even know you're in denial and sometimes you need to be a disinterested observer in order to see the wood from the trees.

Time will tell I guess.

LOL. I think it's you who's in denial about how you feel about this topic.