Did you hear about the Irishwoman in prison in Iran?

Jawgap

Musketeer4 wrote: »

You're dead right.

A case that jumps to mind is that one of the ' "Irishman":rolleyes: rotting in an Egyptian prison'.

Irish me hole!!

....and the Irishman rotting in a Brazilian prison

foggy_lad

foggy_lad wrote: »

This is just another bleedin heart activist trying to act the martyr

This must be very confusing for you.

On the one hand, you have a major problem with Islam and it wasn't too hard to find posts where you were complaining about Muslims having "very strange non western views on treating women"

This woman is critical of how women are treated in Islamic societies. But at the same, time, you hate "bleeding heart liberals" which you deduce Prof Hoodfar to be.

Oh Ouch. What a conundrum. How are you going to square your problem with Islam, with your problem with liberals?

Some really foggy thinking there, lad.

Musketeer4

Musketeer4 wrote: »

You're dead right.

A case that jumps to mind is that one of the ' "Irishman":rolleyes: rotting in an Egyptian prison'.

Irish me hole!!

Hands up.

Ibrahim Halawa was born and reared here, no?

Why the utter dismissal of his Irish credentials?

AGC

Jawgap wrote: »

You can't renounce Iranian citizenship so as far as they're concerned she's Iranian.

Exactly, she could have 50 passports but because she is born in Iran she is Iranian. They do not acknowledge dual citizenship and another country can not interfere with the legal system of another country.

Rightly or wrongly imprisoned the Irish Government can do nothing which will change an Iranian decision

Halawa is a whole different ball game

Musketeer4

Ibrahim Halawa? Irish? Don't make me laugh.
He was born and reared in Ireland yes. That doesn't mean he's "Irish".

You can't seriously suggest that someone born to Islamist immigrants and who holds fairly extreme Muslim views and lives in a parallel culture in the capital can be considered just as Irish as some other young fella from Tipperary who plays Junior B, binge drinks every Saturday and who spent summers haulin' silage, picking shtones and hurring after young wans.

If Ibrahim Halawa did that growing up then fair enough but come on, he's "irish" on paper only. He is not truly Irish.

AGC

Deleted User wrote: »

And if she is indeed a citizen, well she should get the same assistance as someone who was born in a Gaeltacht and can sing the Rocks of Bawn.

The Iranians do not see her as an Irish or Canadian Citizen so will not let Embassy officials near her.

kunst nugget

Musketeer4 wrote: »

He was born and reared in Ireland yes. That doesn't mean he's "Irish".

You can't seriously suggest that someone born to Islamist immigrants and who holds fairly extreme Muslim views and lives in a parallel culture in the capital can be considered just as Irish as some other young fella from Tipperary who plays Junior B, binge drinks every Saturday and who spent summers haulin' silage, picking shtones and hurring after young wans.

He's "irish" on paper. He is not Irish.

I don't follow GAA. Am I fooked if I ever get arrested abroad?

foggy_lad

kunst nugget wrote: »

Was she in the country protesting or out trying to publicly embarrass the government? I can't see any evidence of that. As far as I can make out she was in the country visiting family and researching women's participation in elections since 1906. Her only crime seems to be writing about issues that face Muslim women and being unlucky enough to be visiting the country at the wrong time so in that regard her being arrested for being part of a feminist conspiracy doesn't do much for assuaging the fears that Iran as a country isn't anti-woman.



http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/truthdigger_of_the_week_homa_hoodfar_expert_on_the_20160723

She also suffers from Myasthenia gravis so her being imprisoned without medical treatment could be a very serious issue for her. I can't say my feeling towards her imprisonment would be one of 'good enough for her'. Canada doesn't seem to have any direct diplomacy with Iran but Ireland has an Iranian Embassy in Dublin so I think Ireland should try to help this woman in her time of need.

And the Halawa family members were only on holiday in Egypt and not attending terrorist rallies and riots.:rolleyes:

AGC wrote: »

Exactly, she could have 50 passports but because she is born in Iran she is Iranian. They do not acknowledge dual citizenship and another country can not interfere with the legal system of another country.

Rightly or wrongly imprisoned the Irish Government can do nothing which will change an Iranian decision

Halawa is a whole different ball game

Halawa is the same ball game!

When in Rome/Iran/Egypt you do as the Romans/Iranians/Egyptians do or face Roman/Iranian/Egyptian laws and punishments!

Musketeer4

When in Rome/Iran/Egypt you do as the Romans/Iranians/Egyptians do or face Roman/Iranian/Egyptian laws and punishments!

Oh, he'll probably get away with crucifixion.
Best thing the Roman's ever done for us!
If they didn't have crucifixion, that country would be in a right bloody mess!

BrokenArrows

Ilovemybricks wrote: »

She's never even lived here and has no Irish ancestry. Ridiculous that she's a citizen.

It's none of our business what happens to Iranians in Iran.

How about a child of Irish parents where the child has never lived in Ireland. Should they be entitled to help from the Irish government?

I cant find any information on whether she ever lived in Ireland or not. Under current laws you need to have lived here for 3 years and be married to an Irish citizen in order to become an Irish citizen.
Before 2005 you could just apply for citizenship after marriage without needing to live here. I assume that's what happened as her husband is now dead.

Regardless of the situation she is obviously being detained for breaching (what westeners consider) to be stupid laws and Irish and Canadian governments should be doing everything they can to help.

AGC

foggy_lad wrote: »

And the Halawa family members were only on holiday in Egypt and not attending terrorist rallies and riots.:rolleyes:

Halawa is the same ball game!

When in Rome/Iran/Egypt you do as the Romans/Iranians/Egyptians do or face Roman/Iranian/Egyptian laws and punishments!

Fully agree with that - My point is Halawa is on an Irish passport and has received more consular assistance than anyone I can think off.

Hoodfar simply won't get consular assistance from here or Canada

Musketeer4

That moron Halawa should just admit to what he was up to, take his scolding and hopefully be allowed out of jail. Is his family Egyptian originally or what country are they belonging to?

AGC

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Regardless of the situation she is obviously being detained for breaching (what westeners consider) to be stupid laws and Irish and Canadian governments should be doing everything they can to help.

But they can't, they have zero legal standing. Iran is dealing with her as an Iranian.

It is the Iranian Embassies who have had protests over this - Not Government Offices.

Lobbying would fall on deaf ears.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

The Iranians do not see her as an Irish or Canadian Citizen so will not let Embassy officials near her.

Link?

I'm aware the Iranian authorities may not recognize prof Hoodfar's Irish citizenship, but the Irish diplomatic service has a good relationship with Teheran, having recently operated a trade mission there; in fact, our Consul is himself an Iranian businessman. I don't see why he would be necessarily precluded from visiting this woman in prison.

foggy_lad

Musketeer4 wrote: »

That moron Halawa should just admit to what he was up to, take his scolding and hopefully be allowed out of jail. Is his family Egyptian originally or what country are they belonging to?

His daddy is a big shot in the Muslim Brotherhood aparrently. they are all Egyptian but have Irish passports.

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Link?

I'm aware the Iranian authorities may not recognize prof Hoodfar's Irish citizenship, but the Irish diplomatic service has a good relationship with Teheran, having recently operated a trade mission there; in fact, our Consul is himself an Iranian businessman. I don't see why he would be necessarily precluded from visiting this woman in prison.

Go onto the DFA website travel advice section and it clearly warns that no consular assistance can be provided to dual nationals as Iran does not recognise them.

There is also American - Iranian citizens locked up and the Americans concerns have been simply ignored.

Musketeer4

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Ibrahim Halawa? Irish? Don't make me laugh.
He was born and reared in Ireland yes. That doesn't mean he's "Irish".

You can't seriously suggest that someone born to Islamist immigrants and who holds fairly extreme Muslim views and lives in a parallel culture in the capital can be considered just as Irish as some other young fella from Tipperary who plays Junior B, binge drinks every Saturday and who spent summers haulin' silage, picking shtones and hurring after young wans.

If Ibrahim Halawa did that growing up then fair enough but come on, he's "irish" on paper only. He is not truly Irish.

Ah.

Took your earlier post at face value!

Please, not the "shtones" stuff though, too close to that awful "shteak and shpuds" line.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

Go onto the DFA website travel advice section and it clearly warns that no consular assistance can be provided to dual nationals as Iran does not recognise them.

But I'm not talking about consular assistance, e.g. liason with police authorities, legal advice, organizing medical treatment, etc. I'm referring to a simple visit, and your suggestion that no official can be let near her.

I have repeatedly said that there is probably no obligation for the Iranians to listen to an Irish diplomat, but Ireland does have a good relationship with Iran, we both share an anti-imperialist political history, and there is 4 billion euro worth of trade flowing between us.

I think the Irish diplomatic service should be speaking out about its disquiet, and it should be at least visiting Prof Hoodfar to check that she's doing alright, which apparently isn't happening according to her colleagues.

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But I'm not talking about consular assistance, e.g. liason with police authorities, legal advice, organizing medical treatment, etc. I'm referring to a simple visit, and your suggestion that no official can be let near her.

I have repeatedly said that there is probably no obligation for the Iranians to listen to an Irish diplomat, but Ireland does have a good relationship with Iran, we both share an anti-imperialist political history, and there is 4 billion euro worth of trade flowing between us.

I think the Irish diplomatic service should be speaking out about its disquiet, and it should be at least visiting Prof Hoodfar to check that she's doing alright, which apparently isn't happening according to her colleagues.

Press Statements have been released saying it has been raised with the Iranian Embassy.

There seems to be issues even getting an Iranian Solicitor in to see her so just because we might have good relations does not mean we have any right to visit and again the Iranian do not care that she has an Irish passport.

'Should at least be visiting' there is no Irish Embassy in Tehran, Turkey deals with it I believe and the Iranians do not care - She is Iranian to them.

The same applies in many countries around the world and you have to respect that the same way the Iranian or any other government would respect our legal system whether it is right or wrong.

And you are talking about consular assistance - If you want a diplomatic official to visit that is consular assistance, it comes in many forms.

Ilovemybricks

BrokenArrows wrote: »

How about a child of Irish parents where the child has never lived in Ireland. Should they be entitled to help from the Irish government?

No.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

Press Statements have been released saying it has been raised with the Iranian Embassy.

'Should at least be visiting' there is no Irish Embassy in Tehran, Turkey deals with it I believe and the Iranians do not care - She is Iranian to them.

How long a gap was there between your writing these two paragraphs in the same post.

There is no Embassy in Iran, there is a Consulate in Teheran, and the Consul is the head of that Mission.

Iranian do not care that she has an Irish passport.

You're making all these assertions without any facts behind them. They might not recognize her citizenship, but in practical terms, I have no idea whether or not they care. As I said, Iran and Ireland have had a good historic relationship, there's been a recent trade mission that seems to have gone down well, and these is a multi-billion euro trade between us.

Communication doesn't happen in a vaccum of legal obligations. Things like trade and good diplomatic relations do count for something.

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How long a gap was there between your writing these two paragraphs in the same post.

There is no Embassy in Iran, there is a Consulate in Teheran, and the Consul is the head of that Mission.

You're making all these assertions without any facts behind them. They might not recognize her citizenship, but in practical terms, I have no idea whether or not they care. As I said, Iran and Ireland have had a good historic relationship, there's been a recent trade mission that seems to have gone down well, and these is a multi-billion euro trade between us.

Communication doesn't happen in a vaccum of legal obligations. Things like trade and good diplomatic relations do count for something.

A consul is an honorary position, it is not a consulate which is Diplomatic representation.

The FACT is Iran does not recognise dual citizens, they are the facts behind it. Foreign Affairs travel advice tells us this, is that not fact enough????

Any good relationship would not matter.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

A consul is an honorary position, it is not a consulate which is Diplomatic representation.

http://www.embassypages.com/missions/embassy25659/

Any good relationship would not matter.

https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=diplomacy+definition

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

http://www.embassypages.com/missions/embassy25659/


https://www.google.ie/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=diplomacy+definition

An honorary consul is not a diplomat, they are not a DFA employee, they may never have even been in Ireland!! They are generally a business person who will issue the odd document. I hope you are never in trouble abroad but if you are in a country without an Irish embassy do not waste your time with someone who can't do anything for you, get yourself to a British or any EU embassy.

Do you not get the point that diplomacy will not work??? Iran as a country have arrested and imprisoned an Iranian citizen, if she wants assistance she should and I am sure she has employed local council.

Statements have been released by DFA outlining their concerns and also America and Britain the Iranians do not have to engage because they do not need to, DFA and government have to respect the local laws.

She needs legal assistance not consular. Of course friends, families, organisations will try highlight her plight here because she holds an Irish passport but it is the Iranian authorities they need to be raising them with - as they did at the Iranian Embassy.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

An honorary consul is not a diplomat

He is not a professional diplomat, i.e. he is unpaid for his diplomatic work. Of course he's a bloody diplomat.

Do you not get the point that diplomacy will not work???

As I said, there is 4 billion euro of trade between our two countries, the Iranians apparently have some kind of affinity with our anti-imperial past, and yes, I do think diplomacy can play a role here.

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

He is not a professional diplomat, i.e. he is unpaid for his diplomatic work. Of course he's a bloody diplomat.

As I said, there is 4 billion euro of trade between our two countries, the Iranians apparently have some kind of affinity with our anti-imperial past, and yes, I do think diplomacy can play a role here.

He is not a diplomat, simple as. How can an Iranian citizen be an Irosh diplomat?? Think about it. Michael Smurfit is an honorary consul, is he a diplomat???

Unfortunately diplomacy will not work in this case as the many reasons outlined.

AGC

AGC wrote: »

He is not a diplomat, simple as. How can an Iranian citizen be an Irosh diplomat??

How do you know he isn't Irish?

He's an Oxbridge graduate, he lived in the U.K. I don't know if he's lived in Ireland, but i know he works for Irish firms dealing with Iran.

The fact that he has an iranian background does not preclude him from being the Irish consul. A consul is an unpaid diplomat.

This thread is descending into the absurd. The lengths people will go to to justify inaction is astounding.

AGC

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How do you know he isn't Irish?

He's an Oxbridge graduate, he lived in the U.K. I don't know if he's lived in Ireland, but i know he works for Irish firms dealing with Iran.

The fact that he has an iranian background does not preclude him from being the Irish consul. A consul is an unpaid diplomat.

This thread is descending into the absurd. The lengths people will go to to justify inaction is astounding.

Jesus Christ I am all for action but the action needs to be done in Iran.

Can you really not understand a country not recognising dual citizens and can you really not understand what that means??? There are many countries around the world that take the same position as Iran.

Ireland, Canada, America, Britain, France, do you think they are all just not taking action for their citizens because they couldn't be bothered?? There are reasons which have been said time and time again, If you can't realise that keep bashing your head against a brick wall.

Also do a bit of research into the whole honorary consul, consulates, embassies and diplomats because you seem to be all over the place with their meanings.

AGC

Also I know he is not Irish along with many Irish Honorary Consuls around the world, nationalities are irrelevant

AGC

She has been released