Indo: 'outrage' over cyclists not using bike lane

AltAccount

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Nothing makes me want that person to get knocked off their bike more than when they act obnoxiously self righteous about a car coming within 2 metres of them or the driver even looking at them funny. Those people are the ones who give cyclists a bad name.

You want someone to be hit by a car because they're self righteous?

If someone skips the queue in the post office, do you break their knees with a baseball bat? If you see someone litter, you blind them in one eye?

Good job....

AlreadyHome

endagibson wrote: »

Nobody gives cyclists a bad name. That's a nonsense cliche.

Just used as an expression. I'd hardly be throwing myself into the same category as that sort of guy.

AltAccount wrote: »

You want someone to be hit by a car because they're self righteous?

If someone skips the queue in the post office, do you break their knees with a baseball bat? If you see someone litter, you blind them in one eye?

Good job....

Tongue ever so slightly in cheek. Good job checking though...

NiallBoo

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Nothing makes me want that person to get knocked off their bike more than when they act obnoxiously self righteous about a car coming within 2 metres of them or the driver even looking at them funny. Those people are the ones who give cyclists a bad name.

I'm delighted just to have drivers actually look at me myself...

Cookie_Monster

NiallBoo wrote: »

That would be a mistake as it suggests that the two things are on a par.

I.e. you're comparing one thing that's illegal to one thing that isn't and accidentally implying that either both are illegal or neither are...or that they're both in some sort of murky grey area - indo reporters will happily take on any of that rather than checking the facts.

are you suggesting crossing a solid white line into a cycle lane / straddling lanes is legal? I'm confused by what you are referring to as legal and not...

NiallBoo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

are you suggesting crossing a solid white line into a cycle lane / straddling lanes is legal? I'm confused by what you are referring to as legal and not...

Other way round boss.

I was saying that asking the paper to report on one thing instead of another suggests that these things are on a par in terms of how wrong they are - but you don't want that because the one you're being given out to about (not using lanes) isn't illegal/wrong and so shouldn't be compared to something that is (driving in cycle lanes).

What you say "hey, but what about this! " you're making that comparison whether you mean to or not.

Cookie_Monster

NiallBoo wrote: »

Other way round boss.

I was saying that asking the paper to report on one thing instead of another suggests that these things are on a par in terms of how wrong they are - but you don't want that because the one you're being given out to about (not using lanes) isn't illegal/wrong and so shouldn't be compared to something that is (driving in cycle lanes).

What you say "hey, but what about this! " you're making that comparison whether you mean to or not.

ah, get ya now, cheers

Chuchote

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Nothing makes me want that person to get knocked off their bike more than when they act obnoxiously self righteous about a car coming within 2 metres of them or the driver even looking at them funny. Those people are the ones who give cyclists a bad name.

You want someone injured because they're frightened of a two-tonne hunk of metal coming too close? It's 'obnoxiously self-righteous' to want cars to keep clear of cyclists?

There is no 'giving cyclists a bad name', except in the minds of people who think in a simplistic and dangerous way about others, and mentally form other people into imaginary groups. People who cycle are grannies, babies on the back of their mother's bike, children, businesspeople on their way to work - lots of different kinds of people.

May I suggest that you get out on a bike for a few days and experience the roads from the viewpoint of bicycling? You may then understand things a little better.

Chuchote

Chuchote wrote: »

You want someone injured because they're frightened of a two-tonne hunk of metal coming too close? It's 'obnoxiously self-righteous' to want cars to keep clear of cyclists?

There is no 'giving cyclists a bad name', except in the minds of people who think in a simplistic and dangerous way about others, and mentally form other people into imaginary groups. People who cycle are grannies, babies on the back of their mother's bike, children, businesspeople on their way to work - lots of different kinds of people.

May I suggest that you get out on a bike for a few days and experience the roads from the viewpoint of bicycling? You may then understand things a little better.

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

magicbastarder

Basil3 wrote: »

- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.

this - and one or two other related things you mentioned - are one of the reasons i hear from motorists giving out about cyclists, but it's often deliberately done for safety reasons.

Skrynesaver

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

AlreadyHome

Chuchote wrote: »

You want someone injured because they're frightened of a two-tonne hunk of metal coming too close? It's 'obnoxiously self-righteous' to want cars to keep clear of cyclists?

There is no 'giving cyclists a bad name', except in the minds of people who think in a simplistic and dangerous way about others, and mentally form other people into imaginary groups. People who cycle are grannies, babies on the back of their mother's bike, children, businesspeople on their way to work - lots of different kinds of people.

As mentioned above, this was a tongue in cheek response to the irritating cyclist who buys a GoPro and goes out hunting for conflict.

As mentioned above again, 'cyclists a bad name' was only a form of expression. I'm a cyclist (we've interacted enough now for you to have noted that!) and wouldn't deem myself a lesser person because of some other moron.

Chuchote wrote: »

May I suggest that you get out on a bike for a few days and experience the roads from the viewpoint of bicycling? You may then understand things a little better.

Again, you really should note I post an awful lot about bikes. I cycle 350-400kms a week. I've never owned a car. I've lived in three different countries where I've commuted by bike and was heavily involved in the London Cycling Campaign movement. Just how well do you understand things?

AlreadyHome

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

It genuinely doesn't sound like you do an awful lot of cycling - your view on the above seems not only fairly one-sided, but also very passive aggressive.

magicbastarder

i've never seen any cyclist - or anyone at all - hurling abuse at motorcyclists for using a bus lane.
i suspect most people think they are allowed use them.

Don't Chute!

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the first four things you listed there. But then you already know that don't you?

Pinch Flat

Basil3 wrote: »

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.

Maybe motorists could pull out of my way when I'm trying to get into dublin every morning? Or how about using a purpose built motorway instead of the N roads for getting around the country?

Basil3 wrote: »

- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)

Despite it being perfectly legal, cyclists usually do this to ensure a bigger road presence and avoid dangerous / risky overtaking. I find it much more annoying that motorists drive 2 abreast on motorways - you can be stuck for miles behind some fool who thinks he has Devine right to the "fast lane"

Basil3 wrote: »

- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.

I see loads of cars using long narrow roads - despite cyclists being traffic as well - perhaps motorists could pull to the left to allow me to pass when they're created a massive traffic jam? Or maybe we just limit cyclists to using these roads in the middle of night when the hard pressed motorists are safely tucked up in bed?

Basil3 wrote: »

- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.

I know. The inconvenience. If only I could get to work with left turns only. Maybe google maps can plan this for me to avoid inconveniencing anyone by turning right?

Basil3 wrote: »

- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

Despite both being illegal I don't condone hurling abuse at anyone, but inattentive drivers on Facebook, texting etc is rife as well as fast and aggressive motorbikes using bus lanes. Don't have an issue with the latter using bus lanes, as long as they don't ride like d!cks and respect the vulnerable road users around them, which is not always the case

Basil3 wrote: »

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

Sorry to hear that. Rides defensively but expects other cyclists to stay left? How do we circle that square?

Chuchote

Basil3 wrote: »

- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).

Instead, perhaps there should be a thread here or a Twitter hashtag or an Instragram stream with photos of drivers illegally using their phone while in control of a motorised vehicle.
It doesn't matter if you're stopped at lights - it's dangerous and illegal to use a phone while driving. Put it in the glove compartment, or in a bag under the passenger seat. Don't answer it, don't text on it, don't look at it.

07Lapierre

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

You should read this:
(In particular, points 2,3 and 4)
https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/featured/10-cycling-myths-uncovered?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Cyclescheme-Social&utm_source=10-Cycling-Myths-Uncovered&utm_content&utm_term

Dermot Illogical

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

- Cycling on the road and holding up traffic when there is a decent cycle lane available, just because you're entitled to.
- Riding two abreast and holding up traffic just because you want to talk to your cyclist buddy about the weather (or whatever)
- Cycling up a long narrow stretch of road and holding up loads of traffic, and not allowing cars past when the opportunity arises to pull to the side.
- Cycling in the middle of a lane when you could safely cycle to the side.
- Hurling abuse at motorists for looking at their phone when stopped at lights (get a life).
- Hurling abuse at motorbikes for using a bus lane (see above).

I've been knocked off my bike more than once, but I generally ride defensively, expecting the worst. I also avoid doing things that might irritate a driver, which some cyclists seem to take great pleasure doing.

You really need to take a driving lesson or two, and to stop attributing your imagined motivations to other people's actions. That and put the freakin' phone away when you're driving. Just because you're stopped at a light doesn't mean that nothing is going to happen that might demand your attention.
It's people like you that give drivers a bad name.

tomasrojo

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive.

The first appearance of Trimodal Saint Francis on this forum. Where there is hatred, let him sow love, where darkness, light.

Dermot Illogical

tomasrojo wrote: »

The first appearance of Trimodal Saint Francis on this forum.

It's not the first. I (and I'm sure many others here) do all three as well, but don't normally feel the need to declare it when posting.

2RockMountain

Basil3 wrote: »

I cycle, ride a motorbike, and drive. In my humble opinion, there are various things a cyclist can do to give cyclists a bad name:

Just curious - do the motorists who killed four or five people this week and maimed about ten people give motorists a bad name?

Or does this collective responsibility only apply to cyclists?

Skrynesaver

Skrynesaver wrote: »

Which part don't you believe? That I've been knocked off my bike more than once? That I ride defensively? Admittedly, I ride rarely these days, and haven't been knocked off my bike since 2011.

AlreadyHome wrote: »

It genuinely doesn't sound like you do an awful lot of cycling - your view on the above seems not only fairly one-sided, but also very passive aggressive.

No, I don't cycle much these days, nor do I drive much.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i've never seen any cyclist - or anyone at all - hurling abuse at motorcyclists for using a bus lane.
i suspect most people think they are allowed use them.

Look at the youtube channel linked further up the thread.

Don't Chute! wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the first four things you listed there. But then you already know that don't you?

I know there is 'nothing wrong' and cyclist are 'entitled' to do these things. My point is why ride two abreast and hold up traffic, when if you were single file, all road users could comfortably share the road (as an example).

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Maybe motorists could pull out of my way when I'm trying to get into dublin every morning? Or how about using a purpose built motorway instead of the N roads for getting around the country?

Why should anyone pull out of anyone's way? My point is all road users respecting each other, and neither going out of their way to aggravate the other. Simple, really.

Despite it being perfectly legal, cyclists usually do this to ensure a bigger road presence and avoid dangerous / risky overtaking. I find it much more annoying that motorists drive 2 abreast on motorways - you can be stuck for miles behind some fool who thinks he has Devine right to the "fast lane"

That's completely understandable. Just because there are idiots in cars that do that, does that justify idiots on bikes doing similar?

I see loads of cars using long narrow roads - despite cyclists being traffic as well - perhaps motorists could pull to the left to allow me to pass when they're created a massive traffic jam? Or maybe we just limit cyclists to using these roads in the middle of night when the hard pressed motorists are safely tucked up in bed?

That's a nice attitude to have.

I know. The inconvenience. If only I could get to work with left turns only. Maybe google maps can plan this for me to avoid inconveniencing anyone by turning right?

Where did I say you could never leave the left hand side of the road? You're seriously reaching.

Despite both being illegal I don't condone hurling abuse at anyone, but inattentive drivers on Facebook, texting etc is rife as well as fast and aggressive motorbikes using bus lanes. Don't have an issue with the latter using bus lanes, as long as they don't ride like d!cks and respect the vulnerable road users around them, which is not always the case

Agreed.

Sorry to hear that. Rides defensively but expects other cyclists to stay left? How do we circle that square?

I was talking about riding to the left on roads where there is plenty of room for cars and cycles to co-exist. I didn't realise I'd be subjected to such pedantry.

07Lapierre wrote: »

You should read this:
(In particular, points 2,3 and 4)
https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/featured/10-cycling-myths-uncovered?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Cyclescheme-Social&utm_source=10-Cycling-Myths-Uncovered&utm_content&utm_term

I fully understand this, and don't disagree with any of it. I can understand why someone doesn't want to ride in the gutter, but I also don't understand why someone would choose to ride in the middle of the road when there are better options.

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You really need to take a driving lesson or two, and to stop attributing your imagined motivations to other people's actions. That and put the freakin' phone away when you're driving. Just because you're stopped at a light doesn't mean that nothing is going to happen that might demand your attention.
It's people like you that give drivers a bad name.

There's nothing wrong with my driving. I actually rarely drive these days, and have never had points on my licence. You made the mistake being presumptuous, and thinking that I was referring to myself, but I was using examples from the youtube channel posted above. Sorry to disappoint.

tomasrojo wrote: »

The first appearance of Trimodal Saint Francis on this forum. Where there is hatred, let him sow love, where darkness, light.

I thought it was worthwhile mentioning that I'm not coming from one particular perspective. I didn't realise I'd be mocked for it. Apologies.

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

It's not the first. I (and I'm sure many others here) do all three as well, but don't normally feel the need to declare it when posting.

See above.

2RockMountain wrote: »

Just curious - do the motorists who killed four or five people this week and maimed about ten people give motorists a bad name?

Or does this collective responsibility only apply to cyclists?

Motorists also have a bad name, there are plenty of bad drivers about.

Forgot to add one more example to my list earlier, just reminded by someone doing it on my commute home:

- Cyclists using pedestrian crossings to stop all traffic so they can ride their bike across the road.

Anyway, I was only making a few points. Interesting to see the responses.

07Lapierre

Basil3 wrote: »

I fully understand this, and don't disagree with any of it. I can understand why someone doesn't want to ride in the gutter, but I also don't understand why someone would choose to ride in the middle of the road when there are better options.

Because cycling in the middle of the road usually IS the best option.

example: https://goo.gl/maps/snDXBLp2RR62

I travel along this road a lot. At this point i will cycle in the middle of the road to prevent cars overtaking me (for my safety and the safety of the driver and any possible oncoming traffic that may be just around the corner)

tomasrojo

Basil3 wrote: »

Forgot to add one more example to my list earlier, just reminded by someone doing it on my commute home:

- Cyclists using pedestrian crossings to stop all traffic so they can ride their bike across the road.

I do this every day. I can't exit a side road at one junction, because I'm not very nimble in a fully laden bakfiets, and drivers won't let me in, and there is no traffic light except for a pedestrian light. So I use push the button and use the pedestrian crossing. Admittedly, walking the bike would be more legal, and if there were any pedestrians there I'd walk, but from the point of view of the driver who has to stop for the length of the red signal anyway, what's the difference? I have places to get to too.

07Lapierre

07Lapierre wrote: »

Because cycling in the middle of the road usually IS the best option.

example: https://goo.gl/maps/snDXBLp2RR62

I travel along this road a lot. At this point i will cycle in the middle of the road to prevent cars overtaking me (for my safety and the safety of the driver and any possible oncoming traffic that may be just around the corner)

I'm not saying there aren't times that it's appropriate. I'm talking about doing it when it isn't the best option. Cycling in the middle of the road is SOMETIMES the best option, not USUALLY.

tomasrojo wrote: »

I do this every day. I can't exit a side road at one junction, because I'm not very nimble in a fully laden bakfiets, and drivers won't let me in, and there is no traffic light except for a pedestrian light. So I use push the button and use the pedestrian crossing. Admittedly, walking the bike would be more legal, and if there were any pedestrians there I'd walk, but from the point of view of the driver who has to stop for the length of the red signal anyway, what's the difference? I have places to get to too.

And it's too much of an inconvenience to walk your bike?

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread. That idiot with the youtube channel really got me going

tomasrojo

Basil3 wrote: »

And it's too much of an inconvenience to walk your bike?

If there were pedestrians there, I'd walk the bike. With no pedestrians there, whom exactly am I inconveniencing?

Why does this bother you? It's completely irrelevant if you're driving or on a motorbike. The only person who should care is a pedestrian.

josip

Basil3 wrote: »

...
And it's too much of an inconvenience to walk your bike?
...

On the days a considerate motorist lets him in, nobody is inconvenienced.
Win win.

tomasrojo

tomasrojo wrote: »

If there were pedestrians there, I'd walk the bike. With no pedestrians there, whom exactly am I inconveniencing?

Why does this bother you? It's completely irrelevant if you're driving or on a motorbike. The only person who should care is a pedestrian.

You've got it backwards. Just now, I had to stop for a single cyclist to cycle across a pedestrian crossing. It wasn't even busy with traffic at 11am on a Friday. They shouldn't be inconveniencing me in the first place. This happens fairly regularly in multiple crossings near where I live, and very rarely are there any pedestrians.

Chuchote

Basil3 wrote: »

You've got it backwards. Just now, I had to stop for a single cyclist to cycle across a pedestrian crossing. It wasn't even busy with traffic at 11am on a Friday. They shouldn't be inconveniencing me in the first place. This happens fairly regularly in multiple crossings near where I live, and very rarely are there any pedestrians.

I don't understand how someone crossing a road is inconveniencing you. If the cyclist walked his or her bike across on the pedestrian crossing would you be equally pettish inconvenienced?

tomasrojo

You rarely drive though, so it really shouldn't exercise you to any great extent.

I haven't noticed this much as a phenomenon (cyclists taking to pedestrian crossings to cross streets with very light traffic), but I'll take your word for it.