The Next President of France will be...

Akrasia

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A win for Europe. How long before the United states of Europe becomes a reality, where there is one president who rules us all.

We have a country run by gombeens at the moment. A U S of E couldn't be much worse. I doubt you'd notice any difference

An Ciarraioch

Going by the French Interior Ministry website, Macron will win every d?partement bar two (Aisne, Pas de Calais).

Nody

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Massive result for Le Pen. 35% of the popular vote is impressive if you aspire to the far right.

Actually underwhelming as she was expected to get 40% or there about which means she performed worse than expected a second time around (not winning the first round as expected) and that's 35% while having low turn out (generally seen as bad for the non fringe parties as the fringe parties voters always come out) and a high ratio of blank votes. So if all she can achieve is 35% with low turn out it would be even less with a higher turn out.

FutureGuy

Some lad on twitter posted today he had ?500 on Le Pen to win. When the results came in, he contacted Ladbrokes to say that they allowed his 13 year old to place the bet and he'd be taking it further.

His timeline is comedy gold. :-D

yerwanthere123

FutureGuy wrote: »

Some lad on twitter posted today he had ?500 on Le Pen to win. When the results came in, he contacted Ladbrokes to say that they allowed his 13 year old to place the bet and he'd be taking it further.

His timeline is comedy gold. :-D

Here it is
https://twitter.com/BestoftheMail/status/861329821628084224

I almost feel sorry for them, imagine being that pathetic.

Chuchote

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Going by the French Interior Ministry website, Macron will win every d?partement bar two (Aisne, Pas de Calais).

Link?

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Here it is
https://twitter.com/BestoftheMail/status/861329821628084224

I almost feel sorry for them, imagine being that pathetic.

Racist username…

Chips Lovell

Winning the presidency may be the easy bit. Parliamentary elections are next week and he's unlikely to get a majority, so will need to build some sort of coalition. Implementing policies may be quite challenging.

If his presidency doens't work out, I can't see France opting for a Eurosceptic next time out. Five years from now, Brexit will be a reality rather than a fantasy and Eurosceptism will be a much more difficult sell when voters can see the cold hard truth of Brexit.

ancapailldorcha

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Winning the presidency may be the easy bit. Parliamentary elections are next week and he's unlikely to get a majority, so will need to build some sort of coalition. Implementing policies may be quite challenging.

If his presidency doens't work out, I can't see France opting for a Eurosceptic next time out. Five years from now, Brexit will be a reality rather than a fantasy and Eurosceptism will be a much more difficult sell when voters can see the cold hard truth of Brexit.

I don't know. I'd say LePen will provide a useful threat to unite against. A broad range of figures came out in support of Macron. Obviously, they'll want as many seats as possible for their own parties but nobody wants the FN in government.

Chips Lovell

I think FN are less of a threat in parliamentary elections than the presidential one. At the moment they've only two MPs.

ancapailldorcha

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think FN are less of a threat in parliamentary elections than the presidential one. At the moment they've only two MPs.

Good. Fingers crossed that this wave of populism is now over.

greencap

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Good. Fingers crossed that this wave of populism is now over.

Yep. They missed the open goal. Not happening again, Trump won't get a second term. Making this worldwide trend a once off.

demfad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Good. Fingers crossed that this wave of populism is now over.

There is a longer trend of people having less belief in Democracy going back 2 decades (ill post link later).

What certain authoritarian minded people have done is use this and emerging cracks between tradition and modern capitalism to turn the cracks into fissures and grasp power on a 'traditional' platform.
This sickening with establishment is still there. Macron is a relative outsider, as is Trump. Obama was someone new also.
The dissillusionment with politics needs to go. If it doesnt, and the people manipulating the new digital propaganda world towards their goals are not checked they will be back for more.

An Ciarraioch

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Good. Fingers crossed that this wave of populism is now over.

Yes, both En Marche and the Republicans should do well in the Assembly elections, but it does seem that the FN have a 20% core vote now:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/861506090676170752

An Ciarraioch

Chuchote wrote: »

Link?



Racist username…

http://elections.interieur.gouv.fr/presidentielle-2017/index.html

Christy42

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/5/7/1659968/-President-Macron-has-a-message-for-U-S-climate-scientists

Good to see Macron reiterate his message on climate change. With the US set to fall behind on this issue other countries need to step up if we are to avoid the environment we use to live from being destroyed.

CrabRevolution

To their credit, European conservatives tend not to be anywhere near as bad as US Republicans when it comes to climate change. Even in the UK the use of renewable energy is growing and coal has almost been phased out for electricity generation.

It's political suicide in parts of the US to even believe in climate change. I was reading a BBC article on a huge growth in the use of wind power in Texas, and the local politicians were at pains to say it was all about saving money, not the environment. They knew that to be seen as "green" or to have any consideration for the environment would discredit you in the eyes of the staunchly republican electorate.

Bob24

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Except that 35% will be split between France Insoumise and the FN during the Assembly election, if one assumes that En Marche, the Socialists and Republicans comprise Macron's 65%.

FI voters went 45% to Macron, 17% to Le Pen and 38% refused to make a choice. The are more Fillon voters than Mélanchon voters who went to Le Pen (27% of his first round voters).

I'm not sure yet whether Dupont-Aignan commuted political suicide or set a stepping stone for his future political success when he join forces wit hLe Pen for the second round: he could disappear from political life because he is now repulsive to non-FN supporters and is not the first choice fo FN supporters, but he could also become the new bridge between the significant sovereign/conservative portion of LR's electorate and FN (amongst which some voters already crossed the Rubicon and voted for Le Pen in the second round and others decided to abstain).

Christy42

Bob24 wrote: »

FI voters went 45% to Macron, 17% to Le Pen and 38% refused to make a choice. The are more Fillon voters than Mélanchon voters who went to Le Pen (27% of his first round voters).

I'm not sure yet whether Dupont-Aignan commuted political suicide or set a stepping stone for his future political success when he join forces wit hLe Pen for the second round: he could disappear from political life because he is now repulsive to non-FN supporters and is not the first choice fo FN supporters, but he could also become the new bridge between the significant sovereign/conservative portion of LR's electorate and FN (amongst which some voters already crossed the Rubicon and voted for Le Pen in the second round and others decided to abstain).

Edit: Misread this post and whst the figures referred to.

Jamiekelly

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Here it is
https://twitter.com/BestoftheMail/status/861329821628084224

I almost feel sorry for them, imagine being that pathetic.

Thanks for introducing me to that twitter page. I just spent the last hour scrolling through the Daily Mail comments and seeing Brits actually praise Hitler for his "attempt to look after his own people first" actually makes me feel ill. It was upvoted at a rate of 7 to 1...

Another top comment was a Brit calling WW2 and the Holocaust "unpleasantness" while characterizing Hitler as "misunderstood".

Kind of makes me happy that they voted to leave. Looks like Neo-Nazism has become just another hobby for angry Brits. Sickening to say the least.

CelticRambler

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Winning the presidency may be the easy bit. Parliamentary elections are next week and he's unlikely to get a majority, so will need to build some sort of coalition. Implementing policies may be quite challenging.

Perhaps not as challenging as you might think. As someone pointed out in the post-election blah-blah this morning, neither the PS nor the Républicains are going to contest the Assemblée elections on the basis of opposing the newly elected president. They'll leave that to Mélenchon and the FN.

Macron giving a few choice portfolios to representatives from each of the traditional parties (aswell as his own) means that he's in with a chance to be the first president in several decades to enact a programme of cross-party legislation.

If the people let him, of course. :rolleyes:

listermint

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Thanks for introducing me to that twitter page. I just spent the last hour scrolling through the Daily Mail comments and seeing Brits actually praise Hitler for his "attempt to look after his own people first" actually makes me feel ill. It was upvoted at a rate of 7 to 1...

Another top comment was a Brit calling WW2 and the Holocaust "unpleasantness" while characterizing Hitler as "misunderstood".

Kind of makes me happy that they voted to leave. Looks like Neo-Nazism has become just another hobby for angry Brits. Sickening to say the least.

These comments are not really the comments and the promotion of them is part of the wider mind games going on in the internet to equally promote a mindset of thought in the minority that believe such things and are predisposed to spread it via sharing and also those that read it and feel disenfranchised as to not bother engaging with the political system sure what's the point.

This is an online war and it isn't always so obvious.

Chuchote

Odd the way Macron did that American thing of putting his hand on his heart while singing La Marselleise!

Bob24

CelticRambler wrote: »

Perhaps not as challenging as you might think. As someone pointed out in the post-election blah-blah this morning, neither the PS nor the Républicains are going to contest the Assemblée elections on the basis of opposing the newly elected president. They'll leave that to Mélenchon and the FN.

Macron giving a few choice portfolios to representatives from each of the traditional parties (aswell as his own) means that he's in with a chance to be the first president in several decades to enact a programme of cross-party legislation.

If the people let him, of course. :rolleyes:

I don't know about PS (and they mightt not get that many seats anyway), but LR have already said their target is to obtain a majority based on their own platform so that Macron can't enact his one (if they were to have a majority Macron would be forced to appoint a PM and a government from their ranks and would have much more limited power).

Now I think it will be very difficult for them to achieve, but it is the goal they have set (and I know things can change but until now they are clearly saying anyone who joins Macron team in any way will be expelled from LR).

listermint

Chuchote wrote: »

Odd the way Macron did that American thing of putting his hand on his heart while singing La Marselleise!

That's not an American thing.

America wasn't even invented when that was a thing.

Bob24

listermint wrote: »

That's not an American thing.

America wasn't even invented when that was a thing.

It certainly isn't a French thing. Definitely imported from the US in this context (many commenters noticed this and found it strange).

Chuchote

listermint wrote: »

That's not an American thing.

America wasn't even invented when that was a thing.

America wasn't invented; it was infested!

listermint

Bob24 wrote: »

It certainly isn't a French thing. Definitely imported from the US in this context (many commenters noticed this and found it strange).

The commenters will be wrong. It's not American to put your hand on your heart .

Bob24

listermint wrote: »

Bob24 wrote: »

It certainly isn't a French thing. Definitely imported from the US in this context (many commenters noticed this and found it strange).

The commenters will be wrong. It's not American to put your hand on your heart .

Not sure what you're getting at saying it's not American. This specific behaviour is not just customary, it is even clearly requested by US federal law:

During a rendition of the national anthem —
(1) when the flag is displayed —
(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

Christy42

Bob24 wrote: »

Not sure what you're getting at saying it's not American. This specific behaviour is not just customary, it is even clearly requested by US federal law:

No idea if it is or not but that literally in no way suggests that this is an American thing. It is done in America, that does not mean it is purely an American thing.

Actually it does appear to be an American thing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute but interestingly enough it came about as an anti fascist salute (or more precisely a salute that did not look like a Nazi salute as the previous one had).

ancapailldorcha

Chuchote wrote: »

America wasn't invented; it was infested!

Raise your standard of posting please.

Bob24

Christy42 wrote: »

No idea if it is or not but that literally in no way suggests that this is an American thing. It is done in America, that does not mean it is purely an American thing.

The simple point is that putting your hand on your heart in this context is not something French presidents or incoming presidents have done before and is clearly external influence (the French tradition in this context has more been to stand straight with you arms/hands aligned with the rest of you body, which I think is also customary in many other countries and overall much more widespread than putting your hand on your heart).

And I don't see where else except the US people think Macron could have gotten that from? (I don't know if any other countries have this in their traditions/laws, but what is for sure is that Obama/Trump shown doing it as well as movies or TV series such as House of Cards have certainly made it very visible on French TV whereas no other foreign head of state has been regularly shown doing it).

Edit: an explanation of the symbolism behind it, specifically:

Américano-orléanisme

La main sur le cœur. Un geste plus américain que français, puisqu'on écoute normalement la Marseillaise les mains le long du corps. Enfin donc ce plateau envahi par la foule des proches. La célébration était inspirée de la première victoire du président démocrate, à Chicago. On se situait évidemment dans l’ère du show politico-télévisuel plus que de la liturgie politique ancienne. Composée de curieux plus que de militants, la foule n’y fournit qu’un élément de décor, pas un corps. On avait renoncé aux célébrations populaires, celle du 10 mai 1981, la traversée chiraquienne, et même les gentils flons-flons corréziens d’un François Hollande. Tout cela fait un peu fabriqué, mais efficace.

Christy42

Bob24 wrote: »

The simple point is that putting your hand on your heart in this context is not something French presidents or incoming presidents have done before and is clearly external influence (the French tradition in this context has more been to stand straight with you arms/hands aligned with the rest of you body, which I think is also customary in many other countries and overall much more widespread than putting your hand on your heart).

And I don't see where else except the US people think Macron could have gotten that from? (I don't know if any other countries have this in their traditions/laws, but what is for sure is that Obama/Trump shown doing it as well as movies or TV series such as House of Cards have certainly made it very visible on French TV whereas no other foreign head of state has been regularly shown doing it).

Edit: an explanation of the symbolism behind it, specifically:

I end up agreeing with your point in my post after I looked it up while writing it. My issue was more that the evidence you provided was flimsy. Kinda like saying sushi is Japanese because you found a sushi restaurant in Japan. You are correct but not for the reason you are saying. Anyway it is American, he has presumably watched too much American TV in his life.



One interesting point that has yet to be raised is that people were right to be skeptical of the polls and we have had a massive polling error of about 10%. It has gone relatively unreported in comparison to the relatively minor polling error of Trump's win because it did not change the result and was in favour of the favourite.

Bob24

Christy42 wrote: »

My issue was more that the evidence you provided was flimsy. Kinda like saying sushi is Japanese because you found a sushi restaurant in Japan. You are correct but not for the reason you are saying.

Sorry for only quoting evidence as flimsy as US legislation (which incidently is exactly the legislation refereed to in the Wikipedia link you posted) versus ... nothing arguing it originates from anywhere else to put one's hand on there heart in this context ;-)

Christy42 wrote: »

One interesting point that has yet to be raised is that people were right to be skeptical of the polls and we have had a massive polling error of about 10%. It has gone relatively unreported in comparison to the relatively minor polling error of Trump's win because it did not change the result and was in favour of the favourite.

Not really. The latest polls where giving her at 37%/38% on Friday and in a downhill trend (losing 1 or 2% each day since the debate she magistrally lost).

This one saying 38% was last updated on Friday morning i.e. people were asked for their intentions on Thursday: http://opinionlab.opinion-way.com/opinionlab/832/627/presitrack.html
And that one saying 37% was last updated on Friday evening i.e. people likely polled part on Thursday and part on Friday: http://www.parismatch.com/La-presidentielle-en-temps-reel
Both of them it shows the same downhill trend for here starting from the debate.

So even based on Thursday and Friday's figures the gap is far from 10% (more 3-4% as she ended-up with 33.9%), and the trend those polls were showing just continued into the weekend (i.e. Le Pen losing 1 or 2% per day).

iroced

swiwi_ wrote: »

Listening to Bayrou on France 2, reminds me why France finds itself where it does, referring to France as "one of the world's great countries". The French need to stop thinking this and actually make it happen. They still haven't got past their image as a colonial power and a leading light of world economics and political power.

You didn't get it at all.

You have to know more the French context to understand what he meant. We are (maybe? certainly?) by far the World Champions when it comes to self-flagellation. All my youth I've heard the grass was greener elsewhere (education, mentality, society, social model blah blah blah). Then, when you talk to people from other countries and I met a lot of them during my time in Ireland you realise they face the exact same problems that we do in France. We praise the scandinavian social model and Germany educational system. Well, I met many Swedes & Norwegians and even more Germans who told me that, from their foreign view of it, they quite like our system :pac:... Pros and cons and national/regional/local context has to be taken into consideration, which is not always the case when it comes to comparison.

So, Bayrou mainly wanted to highlight that this France auto-bashing has to stop. It is important to look at your failures and dark eras. It is important to learn from them and move on. But it is also important not to forget and build on your great eras. France is the country of Enlightement. And between Macron & Le Pen, it is pretty obvious to me who's the most "enlighted" and the fact he won with a much larger margin than what everyone thought 1 month ago is a great thing for my country!

CoolHandBandit wrote: »

Massive result for Le Pen. 35% of the popular vote is impressive if you aspire to the far right.

Massive failure you mean. After Fillon's affairs burst out she had the best route for the presidency. But we clearly saw in the second round debate that she only changed FN appearance. She's the same than her dad. She has no clear program for the country. And she still does convey some nasty ideas. Ideas that, I hope, will everlastingly continue to make her party fail in France. Someone like Philippot who sounds more intelligent, who seems to have a clearer plan for the country and seems devoid of FN traditional nasty ideas should try and build his own party (à la Macron) if he wants to really make an impact and propose "nationalistic" politics whithout any ethnophobic/homophobic/misanthropic ideas.

An Ciarraioch

Manuel Valls says he wants to join En Marche.

Bob24

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Manuel Valls says he wants to join En Marche.

His ego must hurt very badly as he is saying it ;-) (and Macron must be laughing)

Christy42

Bob24 wrote: »

Sorry for only quoting evidence as flimsy as US legislation (which incidently is exactly the legislation refereed to in the Wikipedia link you posted) versus ... nothing arguing it originates from anywhere else to put one's hand on there heart in this context ;-)



Not really. The latest polls where giving her at 37%/38% on Friday and in a downhill trend (losing 1 or 2% each day since the debate she magistrally lost).

This one saying 38% was last updated on Friday morning i.e. people were asked for their intentions on Thursday: http://opinionlab.opinion-way.com/opinionlab/832/627/presitrack.html
And that one saying 37% was last updated on Friday evening i.e. people likely polled part on Thursday and part on Friday: http://www.parismatch.com/La-presidentielle-en-temps-reel
Both of them it shows the same downhill trend for here starting from the debate.

So even based on Thursday and Friday's figures the gap is far from 10% (more 3-4% as she ended-up with 33.9%), and the trend those polls were showing just continued into the weekend (i.e. Le Pen losing 1 or 2% per day).

1% loss for LePen is a 1% gain for Macron. That leaves them at 6-8% off. Though you are right that her support was collapsing at the end. I got 10% from a polling average which is a little slow to take into account big changes but more resistant to short term affects (think Jo Cox' murder before the Brexit vote). There are pros and cons for both.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/macron-won-but-the-french-polls-were-way-off/amp/

Even then 3-4% is well of the error with Trump.

As for the American thing. You showed a law referencing it's use. I gave an article describing how the law came about which is the difference.

Chuchote

To bring in a little realism, if the spoiled and null votes were for a candidate, that candidate would have been well ahead of Le Pen.

iroced

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Manuel Valls says he wants to join En Marche.

He was in charge. He failed. Bye bye monsieur! I hope he won't be part of the "recycling". He's been a complete wheathercock in the past 6 months. He lost all his credibility. Tchao Manuel .

Chuchote wrote: »

To bring in a little realism, if the spoiled and null votes were for a candidate, that candidate would have been well ahead of Le Pen.

Yeah. That's what I anticipated after her catastrophic debate and that's why I will not buy the 35% success FN is trying to sell us. It's a huge blow for them. Thanksfully for us.

Bob24

Chuchote wrote: »

To bring in a little realism, if the spoiled and null votes were for a candidate, that candidate would have been well ahead of Le Pen.

Yep:



Also to note though is that if you count that way Macron has less than 50% support (in spite of facing a very repulsive opponent with many Macron voters effectively voting against Le Pen). A bit of a failure of an election really as it didn't really set any clear direction for the country ...

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

To bring in a little realism, if the spoiled and null votes were for a candidate, that candidate would have been well ahead of Le Pen.

Not true. 10.6 million for Le Pen. Blank and null were 4 million. You have to include abstentions of which there were 12 million to beat Le Pen. You can't assume that everyone who couldn't be bothered to vote would have voted if only they had the right candidate. The turnout was pretty good by electoral standards.

What is worth looking at is the 5 million people who voted for a candidate in the first round and either stayed home or voted blank or spoiled in the second round. Presumably those 5 million would have voted if their chosen candidate had made it through. Of course they probably didn't all have the same choice in round one so the candidate that could get all those votes is a bit of a unicorn.

This isn't to say that any claims that she did well are not laughable. We've heard that Europe is falling apart. That immigration and terrorism are a massive existential threat to our very existence. That regular people are effectively serfs in the service of the EU. That the person who says she will fix all this can't get elected means that two out of every three people do not believe her. They either don't believe the scare mongering or they don't believe her claims to be able to do something about it. This is in light of an election where the usual suspects can't even claim the election was rigged by the establishment. France said no to the establishment parties and they said no to Le Pen. Claims that Macron is really a part of the establishment ring a little hollow. You may as will say the same about half our own so called independents.

Bob24

HivemindXX wrote: »

Claims that Macron is really a part of the establishment ring a little hollow. You may as will say the same about half our own so called independents.

His main mentor (and the person who originally introduced him in Hollande's cabinet and put him on the spotlight) is Jacques Attali. A very influential man who started to revolved around presidents and prospective presidents when he was campaigning with François Mitterrand in the 70s and has since then been either an official or officious special advisor for most French presidents.

Not doubt Macron is smart and hard working, but his hard work is not the only reason he is where he is (there are many others like him): the way was open for him by powerful people who are indeed part of the establishment and have been in the inner power circles of France for decades.

Chips Lovell

75% turnout is massive though. It was 65% in the last Irish general election and 55% in the US presidential election.

Bob24

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

75% turnout is massive though. It was 65% in the last Irish general election and 55% in the US presidential election.

You can only compare to previous French presidential elections though.

Different political systems will cause different turnouts (and even within the French system turnout varies widely depending on election types, ranging from circa 50% for European Elections to usually over 80% for presidential elections).

Last Sunday was the lowest turnout figure since 1969's presidential election (for which the turnout was very low because both second round contenders were basically for the same party with similar policies so voters didn't bother).

The volume of spoilt votes also when through the roof last week compared to previous elections.

Rjd2

iroced wrote: »

You didn't get it at all.



Someone like Philippot who sounds more intelligent, who seems to have a clearer plan for the country and seems devoid of FN traditional nasty ideas should try and build his own party (? la Macron) if he wants to really make an impact and propose "nationalistic" politics whithout any ethnophobic/homophobic/misanthropic ideas.

Not followed the fallout of Sundays result from the Le Pen side due to real life stuff getting in the way, but from what I read the knives seem very much out for Philippot and mainly from the side who would back Marine's niece and her father. It seems somewhat harsh on him, not his fault Marine was an absolute mess in the debate and made clangers in the last few weeks such as copying the Fillon speech and I doubt he would have been impressed with her bull**** about Jews in France in WW2.

Interesting to see where they go from here, Marion clearly popular, but would her staunch catholic and hardline views make the party more tolerable for the masses?

Chips Lovell

But you can hardly call it a failure of an election (well you could but you're setting the bar quite high)? Yes Macron only got 43% of eligible voters, but by my reckoning, that's more of a mandate than either Sarkozy or Hollande got. Aside from Chirac vs. Le Pen (who was far more repulsive than his daughter), who was the last president to get more than 50% of registered voters?

gooch2k9

Rjd2 wrote: »

Not followed the fallout of Sundays result from the Le Pen side due to real life stuff getting in the way, but from what I read the knives seem very much out for Philippot and mainly from the side who would back Marine's niece and her father. It seems somewhat harsh on him, not his fault Marine was an absolute mess in the debate and made clangers in the last few weeks such as copying the Fillon speech and I doubt he would have been impressed with her bull**** about Jews in France in WW2.

Interesting to see where they go from here, Marion clearly popular, but would her staunch catholic and hardline views make the party more tolerable for the masses?

http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/presidentielles/2017/05/09/35003-20170509ARTFIG00176-fn-marion-marechal-le-pen-envisage-de-renoncer-a-ses-mandats.php?redirect_premium

Marion retiring? My French is rusty.

Bob24

Rjd2 wrote: »

Not followed the fallout of Sundays result from the Le Pen side due to real life stuff getting in the way, but from what I read the knives seem very much out for Philippot and mainly from the side who would back Marine's niece and her father. It seems somewhat harsh on him, not his fault Marine was an absolute mess in the debate and made clangers in the last few weeks such as copying the Fillon speech and I doubt he would have been impressed with her bull**** about Jews in France in WW2.

Interesting to see where they go from here, Marion clearly popular, but would her staunch catholic and hardline views make the party more tolerable for the masses?

Yes we'll probably see Le Pen's position weaken within the party and possible organisational/leadership changes.

Having said that, while Philippot's line is indeed losing influence, rumour says Maréchal - Le Pen doesn't want ot run again as an MP and wants to take a break from politics. Might be a bit of a mess for a while (and I am not sure where Dupont-Aignan fits into this, he clearly wants to keep a separate party and will probably try to drain some voters from Le Pen, although the opposite could also happen).

Philippot was indeed probably very pissed-off about the debate performance (no doubt he would have done much better), but I don't think he had any issue with the other 2 points you mentioned.
Le Pen's line on France not being responsible for the Vel' d'Hiv Roundup has been the one of De Gaule and many other French presidents which have differentiated France as a country/nation and Vichy's Regime i.e. the government administrating part of France and fought against by another part of France including De Gaule himself (Philippot being a De Gaulle admirer I have no doubt he would be on the same page). And of course to clear any doubt that line is only valid if you at the same time accept that while France as a whole was not responsible, the regime ruling unoccupied France at the time and representing part of France indeed was responsible (and this differentiation between France and Vichy's French administration is a position some French jews support including a renown French Jewish philosopher such as Alain Finkielkraut - whose parents were deported during WW2).

On copying Fillon's speech I think it was political tactics to get closer to his electorate - and I wouldn't be surprised if it originated from Philippot as he has been one of the leading strategists of the party in the past dew years).

Rjd2

gooch2k9 wrote: »

http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/presidentielles/2017/05/09/35003-20170509ARTFIG00176-fn-marion-marechal-le-pen-envisage-de-renoncer-a-ses-mandats.php?redirect_premium

Marion retiring? My French is rusty.

interesting, she has been complaining recently about not having much of a life whatsoever due to the job. I am sure the door will be open for her if/when she decides to return.

Rjd2

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Here it is
https://twitter.com/BestoftheMail/status/861329821628084224

I almost feel sorry for them, imagine being that pathetic.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/09/colin-johnson-wollygogg-twitter-hoax-marine-le-pen-bet?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Looks like some demented hardcore trolling now.:eek: