Where would you like to see next LUAS line/extension?

Alun

end of the road wrote: »

actually, i believe part of it is in dublin and is under one of the dublin local authorities.

Yes, the border with Dun-Laoghaire Rathdown runs through the northern part of Bray.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2093662,-6.1153324,16.25z?hl=en

afatbollix

A couple of years ago I made a map. Sad I know but a couple of things i would do are:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pfL8qj8-zk-wYXUldeR8QZn-y_I&usp=sharing

Dart to the airport & Swords
Luas to Eastpoint & Fairview
Luas to Clondalkin Rail station.

What needs to be done is interchange between all our public transport. If you look at the map people talk of Bray has the Dart but what about someone who wants to go from Dundrum to Bray?

strassenwo!f

lucernarian wrote: »

With proper signalling and double tracking right to the entrances of the tunnels proper, a 20 minute service is achievable but the current infrastructure at Bray head is far away from managing that.

At the moment there seems to be a DART train to/from Greystones every half hour or so. The suggestion I made above, about a possible DART link between Killiney and Cherrywood, should not affect this: if it were possible to build such a link the number of DARTs along the main body of the southside DART should not be affected, and there would still be, say, four an hour at peak times going to Bray station itself. At present, two of those go around Bray Head - and if that number could be increased, well and good - but the suggestion itself (if it came to pass) would have no effect on the level of Greystones service.

I would think such an arrangement could be very advantageous for the area and the commuters living there or using stations in the area. Denizens of Bray, Greystones and Shankill could take the Bray/Greystones train, while park-and-riders (and Cherrywood workers) could take the Cherrywood train, without trying to force their way to the coast to find parking in an area which is not really designed for this. Anyone in Killiney or further in towards the city could of course take either and would see no difference in service.

Stephen15

Wasn't the orginal plan for 84 to have it run half hourly between Newcastle and Cherrywood via Bray. But then some gob****e local councillor insisted that it run as far as UCD only for it to be merged with the 45. It would be a far straighter and more reliable route if it terminated at Cherrywood along with the plans for the new 7 terminus at Cherrywood.

The 45 was so bad it wasn't even worth replacing. Unreliable and slow did anyone in Bray actually use it. The introduction of the 145 and the 4 means it no longer served a purpose.

AngryLips

Stephen15 wrote: »

Bray isin't even in Dublin.

Didn't you not get the memo? We mean greater Dublin

Sam Russell

Stephen15 wrote: »

Bray isin't even in Dublin.

Some of it is.

strassenwo!f

Philipsburgh Avenue is another one which has often struck me as a road which could be ripe for public transport development in the future. Not for a straightforward LUAS, above ground, as it's a tight space, but maybe for some kind of cut-and-cover arrangement which could largely be done while most of the residents are at work.

This road is almost halfway between the DART and the proposed metro north, and might be used for the LUAS to eventually gain access to streets like the Malahide road and its busy suburbs like Coolock.

Van.Bosch

You're right, it is a busy area which is far from the DART but how could you do cut and cover mainly while people are at work?

BowWow

The Dublin Port Tunnel crosses under Phillipsbugh - you wouldn't want to cut into that either...........

strassenwo!f

Van.Bosch wrote: »

You're right, it is a busy area which is far from the DART but how could you do cut and cover mainly while people are at work?

Yes, that needs to be clarified.

With a road like Philipsburgh Avenue it would be enormously disruptive to build a surface LUAS as the work involved would utterly dominate (ruin, even) the lives of the residents for months on end. A reasonably common cut-and-cover arrangement, however, is to dig up a section of the street, then cover it over to let work continue on the tracks underneath without causing major disruption to the street above. When the first section is finished, the process is repeated through the area in question.

This work would be carried out during working hours for both the residents and the workers on the track, hopefully minimising hassle for both.

BowWow wrote: »

The Dublin Port Tunnel crosses under Phillipsbugh - you wouldn't want to cut into that either...........

Probably not:eek:

MJohnston

strassenwo!f wrote: »

Yes, that needs to be clarified.

With a road like Philipsburgh Avenue it would be enormously disruptive to build a surface LUAS as the work involved would utterly dominate (ruin, even) the lives of the residents for months on end. A reasonably common cut-and-cover arrangement, however, is to dig up a section of the street, then cover it over to let work continue on the tracks underneath without causing major disruption to the street above. When the first section is finished, the process is repeated through the area in question.

This work would be carried out during working hours for both the residents and the workers on the track, hopefully minimising hassle for both.

Not a chance this would avoid disruption - first it's unlikely they'd be able to make enough progress between 9-5 to be able to "close up" the road and resurface again. Secondly, that only accounts for regularly scheduled office workers, what about the school rush and other off-schedule workers?

Having to work to the schedule of locals would probably also result in a hugely expensive construction process too.

But the main question is why Philipsburgh Avenue? Where is it connecting to and from that you want to consider it? It's a street that's barely 1km in length, in an area very well served by the DART already. It's a weird place to be talking about in the context of this thread!

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

The 84/a every half hour from Cherrywood.

That works well in theory. I have on occasion however stood for 90 minutes waiting for that sodding bus to arrive. Walking to Bray would only take an hour. The 145 is reliable though.

strassenwo!f

MJohnston wrote: »

Not a chance this would avoid disruption - first it's unlikely they'd be able to make enough progress between 9-5 to be able to "close up" the road and resurface again. Secondly, that only accounts for regularly scheduled office workers, what about the school rush and other off-schedule workers?

I'm sorry if that's the picture of construction that I conveyed in my earlier post. That would be impossible.

What I was envisaging was an arrangement where the first, say, 100 metres of the road is subjected to a short period of extensive digging and shoring up of the resulting trench. This trench is then filled with pre-cast concrete units - probably shaped like a very large polo mint - the bits at the side are tidied up and then a new road surface is placed on top of the concrete units. The work of laying the resulting tracks then starts unhindered under the new section of road and while that work is happening the digging, shoring, covering and resurfacing happens on the next 100 metre section, and so on until the process is complete.

This would minimise the disruption suffered by any one section of the road, and by the road as a whole, while construction is happening.

MJohnston wrote: »

Having to work to the schedule of locals would probably also result in a hugely expensive construction process too.

On the contrary. If you look at the surface LUAS works around Dawson Street and Nassau Street, for example, you can see that they are constantly having to rearrange things to take account of the businesses in the area, buses travelling through, pedestrians crossing, etc. In the above scenario the tracklayers and other workers would be pretty much free to work away in peace, under the rebuilt road section, and achieve lots in a normal day.

MJohnston wrote: »

But the main question is why Philipsburgh Avenue? Where is it connecting to and from that you want to consider it? It's a street that's barely 1km in length, in an area very well served by the DART already. It's a weird place to be talking about in the context of this thread!

I agree, the suggestion is not really right for a thread on 'the next LUAS line' as there are definitely other more pressing projects.

My apologies.

(My thinking was based on what might happen at some stage in the future, when other more pressing projects have been built. When the BXD line is well bedded-in and we see how it all works, the section currently being built around Parnell Street might be a useful connection point for a LUAS line to/from Summerhill, Ballybough and eventually the Malahide Road and/or areas between the Malahide Road and the Airport Road, perhaps via Philipsburgh Avenue, the Marino Institute, etc.).

Chivito550

Regarding the LUAS cross city, how fast do people envisage it being? Will it be going painfully slow around corners through the city like at Charlemont to Harcourt? (I've seen trams in Amsterdam absolutely bomb it around corners so not sure why they have to crawl so much here).

Will the LUAS be crawling so slowly towards the Stephens Green stop once it passes the lights at the end of harcourt st (a real pet peeve of mine) or will it stop doing this now that it is no longer the last stop?

How long do we anticipate it will take from Stephens Green to Lower O'Connoll's street stop? I can walk that in 13 minutes so you'd expect no more than 6 on the tram to make it worthwhile.

How long from Stephens Green to new DIT Campus?

LXFlyer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Regarding the LUAS cross city, how fast do people envisage it being? Will it be going painfully slow around corners through the city like at Charlemont to Harcourt? (I've seen trams in Amsterdam absolutely bomb it around corners so not sure why they have to crawl so much here).

Will the LUAS be crawling so slowly towards the Stephens Green stop once it passes the lights at the end of harcourt st (a real pet peeve of mine) or will it stop doing this now that it is no longer the last stop?

How long do we anticipate it will take from Stephens Green to Lower O'Connoll's street stop? I can walk that in 13 minutes so you'd expect no more than 6 on the tram to make it worthwhile.

How long from Stephens Green to new DIT Campus?

The speed restrictions are there for a reason - to minimise noise disruption to local offices/residents and more importantly safety. That's not going to change. The same kind of restrictions will apply on the various corners en route along the Green Line extension as they do on the existing lines.

The reason trams crawl beyond Harcourt Street heading for St Stephen's Green is that they have to stop at the mandatory stop signal, and the driver must select which setting the points should have before proceeding. A rather important safety procedure, I would suggest. Like all rail systems, LUAS is subject to strict safety rules and regulations. Your pet peeve is something that is there to allow for the service to operate safely. That will no longer apply once the Green Line is extended.

They haven't released stop-to-stop journey times, only the overall journey time of 21 minutes from St Stephen's Green to Broombridge. At a guess though, I'd think it will take 6-8 minutes to get from Broombridge to Broadstone on the segregated alignment, I would say 13-15 minutes to get from Broadstone to St Stephen's Green. That would reflect the fact that it will be on-street, subject to traffic lights, and sharing the space between Dawson Street and College Street with buses and taxis.

lxflyer

lxflyer wrote: »

The speed restrictions are there for a reason - to minimise noise disruption to local offices/residents and more importantly safety. That's not going to change. The same kind of restrictions will apply on the various corners en route along the Green Line extension as they do on the existing lines.

The reason trams crawl beyond Harcourt Street heading for St Stephen's Green is that they have to stop at the mandatory stop signal, and the driver must select which setting the points should have before proceeding. A rather important safety procedure, I would suggest. Like all rail systems, LUAS is subject to strict safety rules and regulations. Your pet peeve is something that is there to allow for the service to operate safely. That will no longer apply once the Green Line is extended.

The reason trams stop at the mandatory stop signal is because of the mandatory stop signal. It doesn't explain Chivitio's pet peeve, of the tram crawling from the stop sign to the Stephens Green stop.

...and the driver must select which setting the points should have before proceeding. A rather important safety procedure, I would suggest.

The driver has to select which setting the points should have? Give me a flipping break. Theres two lines. Is it left or is it right? Lets get out the slide rule to calculate that. If its such an important safety procedure, why isn't it automated?

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason trams stop at the mandatory stop signal is because of the mandatory stop signal. It doesn't explain Chivitio's pet peeve, of the tram crawling from the stop sign to the Stephens Green stop.

The driver has to select which setting the points should have? Give me a flipping break. Theres two lines. Is it left or is it right? Lets get out the slide rule to calculate that. If its such an important safety procedure, why isn't it automated?

Re-read his post. His peeve was that that they crawled from Harcourt Street. Not from the signal, which is between Harcourt Street and the crossover before the stop.

LUAS works on line of sight and the driver selects the point settings. That's standard with these kind of networks. There are very strict rules within this as to how the system operates, and that includes trams coming to a complete stop at the signal before they set the points.

But clearly you know better than the people who operate them.

Chivito550

It's not the slowish journey from Harcourt to the lights at the crossroads at Stephens green that annoys me. It's the fact that after stopping at the lights, the tram crosses the crossroads, then often stops again for whatever reason, before finally crawling to the stephens green stop. This is painfully slow.

Another question: what's the purpose of the tie-in works between red and green lines? Will there be services operating from Broombridge to the Point and from Brides Glen to Tallaght?

lxflyer

lxflyer wrote: »

Re-read his post. His peeve was that that they crawled from Harcourt Street. Not from the signal, which is between Harcourt Street and the crossover before the stop.

I have re-read his post and I know exactly what he means because I have experienced same twice a day for about 2 years. It does crawl along at a snails pace, then it stops at the signal, then it crawls along again until it reaches SSG.

LUAS works on line of sight and the driver selects the point settings. That's standard with these kind of networks. There are very strict rules within this as to how the system operates, and that includes trams coming to a complete stop at the signal before they set the points.

No-one has a problem with the thing coming to a complete stop at the signal. Its it crawling for just shy of a kilometre which is the complaint.

But clearly you know better than the people who operate them.

Theres no need to be like that.

LXFlyer

Chivito550 wrote: »

It's not the slowish journey from Harcourt to the lights at the crossroads at Stephens green that annoys me. It's the fact that after stopping at the lights, the tram crosses the crossroads, then often stops again for whatever reason, before finally crawling to the stephens green stop. This is painfully slow.

Another question: what's the purpose of the tie-in works between red and green lines? Will there be services operating from Broombridge to the Point and from Brides Glen to Tallaght?

I have already explained exactly why the trams stop between the crossroads at the Harcourt Street/Cuffe Street/St Stephen's Green Junction to St Stephens Green stop. But I will do so again in detail. When I mentioned Harcourt Street earlier, I was referring to the junction at Cuffe Street/SSG as per your original post - not Harcourt Stop.

After the trams cross that junction onto St Stephen's Green West, there is a mandatory stop signal located before the crossovers between the two tracks. Having stopped, the tram drivers must then set the points and obtain a proceed aspect from that signal before they can proceed into the stop. As they are going over a crossover, the second point in which is spring operated, there is a reduced speed restriction in place to avoid the trams derailing. This is standard on all rail networks.

That will change after the cross-city line is opened as the crossover will only be used in emergencies only.

Your second question has been done to death on the LUAS BXD thread, having been asked dozens of times. The connections are only for use in emergencies only, for transferring trams between depots. They will not be in daily use. Go and look at the connection at the Marlborough Street/Abbey Street junction and you'll see why - it requires a reversal. There isn't enough space to facilitate better connections within the geometry available.

The two lines will operate separately and passengers requiring a transfer will have to switch between the two stops.

Green Line trams will operate from Brides Glen & Sandyford to Broombridge or will turn right at the top of O'Connell Street and terminate at Parnell Stop and then continue back south.

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

I have re-read his post and I know exactly what he means because I have experienced same twice a day for about 2 years. It does crawl along at a snails pace, then it stops at the signal, then it crawls along again until it reaches SSG.

No-one has a problem with the thing coming to a complete stop at the signal. Its it crawling for just shy of a kilometre which is the complaint.

Theres no need to be like that.

Hang on. From the Harcourt Street/SSG/Cuffe St Junction to the SSG stop is not 1km, it's only 260m.

Within that space there is a mandatory stop signal on SSG West before the crossovers, and then immediately after that there is a crossover which the trams use to switch lines 95% of the time. Given that the trams are going to have to stop, they will naturally slow down. Using a crossover means they are subject to a speed restriction lest they derail. This is particularly relevant as the second point is spring-operated - it springs back into place after each bogey on the tram crosses over it.

As for my final comment, with respect you were the one who derided normal practice on tram systems in fairly common language. When someone explains it to you and you just suggest it's nonsense I think that my comment is justified.

end of the road

"The speed restrictions are there for a reason - to minimise noise disruption to local offices/residents"

ah god. imagine them having to put up with noise from something that's barely noisy as it is . they had to turn down the noise of the barely noisy bells because god love them they might have to deal with a bit of noise that is actually necessary and which exists for good reason.

Chivito550

end of the road wrote: »

"The speed restrictions are there for a reason - to minimise noise disruption to local offices/residents"

ah god. imagine them having to put up with noise from something that's barely noisy as it is . they had to turn down the noise of the barely noisy bells because god love them they might have to deal with a bit of noise that is actually necessary and which exists for good reason.

Yeh and as I mentioned before, how come the trams in Amsterdam bomb around corners and are generally much quicker in the city than they are here? Are Irish pedestrians more stupid than Dutch pedestrians that we need our trams crawling through our city streets?

end of the road

Chivito550 wrote: »

Yeh and as I mentioned before, how come the trams in Amsterdam bomb around corners and are generally much quicker in the city than they are here? Are Irish pedestrians more stupid than Dutch pedestrians that we need our trams crawling through our city streets?

some definitely are. i'm sure we will grow up one day in relation to this type of nonsense but i won't hold my breath.

if it was simply about stopping for signals and changing points they're would be no issue from me as that is correct that that should happen. but nimbys and people who can't behave, not a chance.

Stephen15

Another question similar to last one is why in the uk and ireland is a speed restriction imposed on freight passing through stations when on most of the mainland freight can pass at full speed.

hytrogen

I want to see the luas terminate at the ferry terminals in Dublin port. Or else run a small commuter carriage into the port from Heuston through the tunnel.
Before you say it yes I know ferries arrive at unsociable hours, I've rail-sailed many times from London thank you! But like the airports, we don't have a major ferry port (dun laoghaire lost the ferry because of the yachtys cutting across it! & cobh is it's own country!!)directly linked to a rail service for passengers that operates (rosslare isn't connected directly), thank you Todd Andrews & FF!

LeinsterDub

hytrogen wrote: »

I want to see the luas terminate at the ferry terminals in Dublin port. Or else run a small commuter carriage into the port from Heuston through the tunnel.
Before you say it yes I know ferries arrive at unsociable hours, I've rail-sailed many times from London thank you! But like the airports, we don't have a major ferry port (dun laoghaire lost the ferry because of the yachtys cutting across it! & cobh is it's own country!!)directly linked to a rail service for passengers that operates (rosslare isn't connected directly), thank you Todd Andrews & FF!

There are what 4 sailings a day?

hytrogen

LeinsterDub wrote:

There are what 4 sailings a day?

More than 8 when you consider jonathan swift, european endeavour (liverpool) Mannanin to isle of man as well as the usuals of superfast 8 & Ulysses and the odd one to Cherbourg. Don't forget the cruise ships too, they love the train to Cork & middleton from Cobh

LeinsterDub

hytrogen wrote: »

More than 8 when you consider jonathan swift, european endeavour (liverpool) Mannanin to isle of man as well as the usuals of superfast 8 & Ulysses and the odd one to Cherbourg. Don't forget the cruise ships too, they love the train to Cork & middleton from Cobh

Hardly enough to justify a high frequency 'rapid' transport system

L1011

Chivito550 wrote: »

Another question: what's the purpose of the tie-in works between red and green lines? Will there be services operating from Broombridge to the Point and from Brides Glen to Tallaght?

Future flexibility. No services switching lines will be scheduled and I doubt any specials will either

Bob24

curiousoranje wrote: »

Not trolling at all. Have had to take Luas from The Square Tallaght-Connolly every day of this bus strike so far and I find it irritatingly slow. It never gets going. It is a poor, ham fisted choice for connecting outer suburbs like Tallaght, Lucan etc to City Centre. Luas to Airport as someone suggested would be even worse.

Agreed. Existing LUAS lines are already too slow and overcrowded, extending them would bring them to their knees. In a city the size of Dublin trams are fine if you are not trying to cover too many areas with a single line, don't have them stop every 200 meters (or less: see Connolly and Busaras), and they are a supplement for an already existing quality transport network (both buses and trains/metros).

end of the road

hytrogen wrote: »

I want to see the luas terminate at the ferry terminals in Dublin port. Or else run a small commuter carriage into the port from Heuston through the tunnel.
Before you say it yes I know ferries arrive at unsociable hours, I've rail-sailed many times from London thank you! But like the airports, we don't have a major ferry port (dun laoghaire lost the ferry because of the yachtys cutting across it! & cobh is it's own country!!)directly linked to a rail service for passengers that operates (rosslare isn't connected directly), thank you Todd Andrews & FF!

in fairness, Todd Andrews isn't to blame for rosslare station and terminal being disconnected. CIE are totally responsible for that one back around 2007 i think. they're are still services to rosslare however the dump that counts for a station is miles away from the terminal. not even a bus connects the 2 i believe. you will have to walk and be greatful that CIE will even let you have such a wonderful opportunity to do so, and to even use their train and port at all.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Hardly enough to justify a high frequency 'rapid' transport system

they're are also those working in the port who might use it if it was convenient enough. plenty of opportunities but more chance of me being voted in as the next irish president then that happening

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

they're are also those working in the port who might use it if it was convenient enough. plenty of opportunities but more chance of me being voted in as the next irish president then that happening

There are so many areas ahead of a docklands Luas few would use in need of decent transport . Finglas , Whitehall, the areas the F line would serve.

hytrogen

end of the road wrote:

in fairness, Todd Andrews isn't to blame for rosslare station and terminal being disconnected. CIE are totally responsible for that one back around 2007 i think. they're are still services to rosslare however the dump that counts for a station is miles away from the terminal. not even a bus connects the 2 i believe. you will have to walk and be greatful that CIE will even let you have such a wonderful opportunity to do so, and to even use their train and port at all.

Apologies was having that nice bottle of wine & saw a FF flag, like a matadors cloth to a bull. You are correct

hytrogen

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Hardly enough to justify a high frequency 'rapid' transport system

I'm not referring to having trams stop there every 5 minutes, but at least to coordinate around ferries amd cruise liners arrival / departure times.
[HTML]http://www.dublinport.ie/news/2015-a-record-year-for-trade-at-dublin-port-1/[/HTML]

wrote:

On the tourism side, 1.8 million ferry passengers travelled through the port in 2015, representing a 5.1% increase on last year and placing Dublin Port on a par with major national airports including Cork and Shannon.

In addition, 2015 was a strong year for the port’s cruise business with 149,000 visitors on 93 cruise ships, up 8.1% and 5.9% respectively on 2014. The strong growth was driven, in particular, by the port handling cruise ships greater than 300m in length for the first time.

if that's not justifable to have trains / trams linked to our national airports then surely they can extend the Luas 300m into the port

Idbatterim

I foolishly got the red line to the 3 arena a few months back, thinking it would be a short walk to the ferry! Eh it wasnt! so i just entered it on google maps, it was 3.4km to walk. So lets say it didnt drop you right door to door, but somewhere between the ferry terminals, you are still looking at 3km! It certainly isnt 300m...

LeinsterDub

hytrogen wrote: »

I'm not referring to having trams stop there every 5 minutes, but at least to coordinate around ferries amd cruise liners arrival / departure times.
[HTML]http://www.dublinport.ie/news/2015-a-record-year-for-trade-at-dublin-port-1/[/HTML]
if that's not justifable to have trains / trams linked to our national airports then surely they can extend the Luas 300m into the port

On a par! Dublin airport is approaching 30 million passengers. You don't build mass transport systems to cater for an average of 250 people an hour you use buses that's assuming everyone using the ferry takes public transport which they don't.

Also its certainly more than 300 metres

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You don't build mass transport systems to cater for an average of 250 people an hour you use buses

not if you want to attract new patronage to public transport. whether people like it or not bus transport just doesn't attract people to use it compared to a tram system. now i agree with you that they're will be no luas to the port but it certainly would be an ideal add on.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

it certainly would be an ideal add on.

Ideal as in an ideal world of infinite money, lines appearing overnight with no construction disruption and no need to pay it's way? Then yes ideal.

Chivito550

Far better extending the LUAS to Irishtown. I spend a lot of time down there and it isn't greatly served by bus. The 1 is every 30 minutes and the 47 every hour. The 47 and 1 tend to arrive at the same time heading into town too, rendering the 47 useless to me. You think there would be some joined up thinking to have the 47 arrive at irishtown (heading into town) at a time when there is no number 1 bus coming.

hytrogen

LeinsterDub wrote:

On a par! Dublin airport is approaching 30 million passengers. You don't build mass transport systems to cater for an average of 250 people an hour you use buses that's assuming everyone using the ferry takes public transport which they don't.

No but investment to smaller extensions like this will attract longer term returns and thus further investment into other branches and links.
Plus the luas is ideal because it promotes Dublin as being a clean green city which foreign visitors want to see when they step off a ship or a plane. Same as the Dart.
As well as being a fantastic link through the centre of the city to many attractive parts like temple bar, st. Stephens green, the national museums & guinness brewery but to name a few once the cross city link is completed, it makes sense.

LeinsterDub

hytrogen wrote: »

No but investment to smaller extensions like this will attract longer term returns and thus further investment into other branches and links.
Plus the luas is ideal because it promotes Dublin as being a clean green city which foreign visitors want to see when they step off a ship or a plane. Same as the Dart.
As well as being a fantastic link through the centre of the city to many attractive parts like temple bar, st. Stephens green, the national museums & guinness brewery but to name a few once the cross city link is completed, it makes sense.

It makes no sense. If you've money to burn for 3 km worth of line stick it on the end into Finglas, Irishtown or halfway to Bray. All this link would be is a under used loss making folly

We need what we had 100 years ago.

hytrogen

LeinsterDub wrote:

It makes no sense. If you've money to burn for 3 km worth of line stick it on the end into Finglas, Irishtown or halfway to Bray. All this link would be is a under used loss making folly

Where in finglas? There's no land available without compulsory purchase orders issued on family homes or businesses.
Bray has a dart & it's fine.
Please explain the economics of it being an "under used loss making folly" when with strategic scheduling and increasing footfall through the port annually as mentioned already that it can make a loss?

Chivito550

hytrogen wrote: »

Where in finglas? There's no land available without compulsory purchase orders issued on family homes or businesses.
Bray has a dart & it's fine.
Please explain the economics of it being an "under used loss making folly" when with strategic scheduling and increasing footfall through the port annually as mentioned already that it can make a loss?

Waste of money IMO as the majority who travel by ferry travel by car. That's generally why people take ferries, so they can bring their cars abroad and avoid having to rent a car.

Irishtown and Ringsend makes way more sense.

LeinsterDub

hytrogen wrote: »

Where in finglas? There's no land available without compulsory purchase orders issued on family homes or businesses.
Bray has a dart & it's fine.
Please explain the economics of it being an "under used loss making folly" when with strategic scheduling and increasing footfall through the port annually as mentioned already that it can make a loss?

Even if every passenger and employee going via Dublin port used the Luas you are talking about 250 - 300 users per hour or if you've a Luas every 5 minutes 12- 15 users per tram.

Broombridge >Tolka Valley Park >Green space behind casement Rd >wellmount to the village or follow the green space to mellows

hytrogen

LeinsterDub wrote:

Broombridge >Tolka Valley Park >Green space behind casement Rd >wellmount to the village or follow the green space to mellows

I stand corrected! Perfect idea, I hope that'll be the next phase for the green line

Chivito550

I really think we should be moving away from Green and Red lines and have a numbering system to go with it.

Line 1: Tallaght to Connolly
Line 2: Saggart to Point (hopefully eventually Ringsend)
Line 3: Sandyford to Broombridge (hopefully eventually Finglas)
Line 4: City Centre to Brides Glen

I'd imagine it can be confusing for visitors finding there are 2 red lines.

BonnieSituation

Chivito550 wrote: »

I really think we should be moving away from Green and Red lines and have a numbering system to go with it.

Line 1: Tallaght to Connolly
Line 2: Saggart to Point (hopefully eventually Ringsend)
Line 3: Sandyford to Broombridge (hopefully eventually Finglas)
Line 4: City Centre to Brides Glen

I'd imagine it can be confusing for visitors finding there are 2 red lines.

I can't imagine it would be difficult for visitors to distinguish between our 2 lines.

Plus in your scenario your Line 1 and 2 overlap at a certain point and one stops shorter than the other. I would wager that that would be more confusing for these "visitors".


Have you ever gone to NYC? That's not really user friendly but people seem to get on with it.

LeinsterDub

Chivito550 wrote: »

I'd imagine it can be confusing for visitors finding there are 2 red lines.

Nope most visitors would have visited small or medium sized cities before with multiple lines and spurs. What's more likely to confuse them is the lack of a rail link from the airport