Ignorant Teacher

Digital Solitude

Hi guys, just looking for opinions and advice on where I should go from here.

Basically, my girlfriend is attending third level education. She suffers quite badly from anxiety and depression, and has done for the past 7 years or so.

She recently started into first year of a new course, and has missed 4 days due to her mental health, after being asked to get a doctor's note, she visited a local GP and was prescribed a trial of antidepressants and given a doctor's note excusing three of her four absences.

After attempting to hand the note in to her year head today (the person who requested the note), she was told that missing this many days was unacceptable, and she would be looking to get my gf transferred to another course if she would continue to miss days. She wouldn't accept the note as a valid excuse for missing days, and told her that she believed a 19y/o was too young to be diagnosed with anxiety and depression. She went on to ask why she thought she was better than the rest of the students, before cutting the conversation short by stating she was wasting her time even discussing it.

This is scandalous behaviour in my opinion, a figure of authority shouldn't come out with such nonsence, and it is definitely not her business to diagnose the mental health of her students, against the opinion of several GPs and psychiatrists.

Naturally, this has made her anxious about going back to class next week, and I don't believe she will want to return to this woman's class.

Is there anything I can do to have this followed up on, or has anyone here been in or know of similar situations?

Thanks for any advice given.

Saipanne

I'd recommend going to disability support services in the college, depression is counted as a disability by these services. They should offer support and advice.

davo2001

If this is true then talk to the department head as this is completely unacceptable. However you are only hearing one side of the story so get your fact straight before proceeding, there are 3 sides to every story, her side, the lectures side and the truth.

Digital Solitude

She has already had meetings with the college councillor.

Am I correct in thinking this should be reported to the college then?

spurious

No teaching professional has any right to make remarks concerning a medical professional's opinion on a cert..
"a 19y/o was too young to be diagnosed with anxiety and depression" is a daft and patently untrue opinion.

I would imagine this will be dealt with fairly quickly by the higher up folk (there will be someone with responsibilty for all the courses there) in the college, but your gf will still have the issue of having to attend a class with this teacher. Perhaps your gf misunderstood what the lecturer said (I know............ but we have to allow some space to come to an arrangement where she can still attend classes to get her qualification) and maybe once her cards are marked from on high things will change.

It's also entirely possible it was just a stupid 'D'Oh!!' moment and the lecturer regrets saying it. Hopefully it can be sorted out.

Digital Solitude

We've spoken about it some more and she is saying she wants to let it lie and see how things are from here. I'm strongly recommending that she reports the lady and has it dealt with officially, at the very least the teacher will use a bit more cop on going forward, she obviously needs to be told that a mistake or not, it's not an okay thing to say to anyone.

She is happy to remain in the class I believe but I think the lecturer deserves at least a "cop on" from a department head

Despite the possibility of it being a d'oh moment, can you imagine if my gf (it's annoying not using names) had snapped at her over it. I have no doubt she'd be out of her course and over 1k in supplies over a d'oh moment

I'm thinking long term there's no knowing who will she will say things like this to and some may take a very bad reaction to basically being told their making up a mental illness for attention, all the online and television movements about it being okay to not be okay, I'm just disgusted by it.

I'm still in outrage mode however so apologies if I ramble or seem passive aggressive, I really appreciate all comments, the oh does too.

gctest50

Digital Solitude wrote: »

....
I'm still in outrage mode however so.....

This :

Digital Solitude wrote: »

...... and told her that she believed a 19y/o was too young to be ..........

may never have happened

Digital Solitude

gctest50 wrote: »

This :



may never have happened

Are you accusing me or my gf of fabricating it? I can assure its what was said to me, and I know other people have told her this before also

Tom Dunne

Ok, I'm going to be brutally honest here, but there's a few inconsistencies in your story.

Year head - that is a school thing, rather than a 3rd level thing.

Absences - correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not the first or second week of the semester? To say such things about absences this early is most unusual. And to be that dismissive of a student with an illness is beyond wrong.

Transferring - absolutely did not happen. No staff member can transfer a student to another course without the student initiating it.

I am not accusing anyone of lying, I'm saying the facts as you present them don't add up.

I suggest your girlfriend brings her issues to the department admin and seek advice on the best course of action and to have her medical issues put on record.

spurious

Just to clarify, the OP consulted with me before posting and I specifically instructed that he/she be very vague with any possible identifying information, such as course title, title of staff member's position etc., so that may be contributing to inconsistencies.

Digital Solitude

I'm just misusing the year head thing, yeah. It's not a university so they're not technically departments from what I know bit anyways.

It's the third week of her semester, obviously grief about missing so much time is to be expected but disregarding a doctor's note and a antidepressant prescription isn't fair.

I'm only relaying the facts, I told her that she couldn't be transferred and that it was nonsense, I'm just relaying the whole story.

livedadream

Sounds like it could be further ed over university they tend to be stricter than 3rd levels, ie taking a role call etc asking for a gp note
I agree with you pointing out it only being the third week of September though that's a fair bit of absence for the start of the year.
Yes what was said was insensitive however maybe is a tough course and the tutor is being realistic that if your girlfriend is missing 1 day a week or more this early in the year she can tell from her experience that she won't cut it.

Digital Solitude

I'm not trying to dispute that she hasn't missed many days or anything, I'm in total agreement that she's missed enough days that the teacher is totally correct to chastise her over it, it's the manner in which she did so.

My primary problem is with what was said though, as far as I'm concerned that's the matter at hand, if someone can prove to a doctor that they weren't well enough to go to college a teacher shouldn't so bluntly question it.

Again, apologies if I sound ratty, I'm not at all trying to be

livedadream

Digital Solitude wrote: »

I'm not trying to dispute that she hasn't missed many days or anything, I'm in total agreement that she's missed enough days that the teacher is totally correct to chastise her over it, it's the manner in which she did so.

My primary problem is with what was said though, as far as I'm concerned that's the matter at hand, if someone can prove to a doctor that they weren't well enough to go to college a teacher shouldn't so bluntly question it.

Again, apologies if I sound ratty, I'm not at all trying to be

and thats great and this is going to sound wrong but i cant think of how else to phrase it so apologies in advance for sounding harsh, but of course the teacher is within her rights to question it.

the same as an employer would be if she started a job and within the first three weeks called in sick 4 times.

its a huge persentage of absence and for a course like in further ed colleges can mean alot of information is missed.

yes maybe the teacher went about it the wrong way but we dont know how your gf approached her or what was said on that said.

maybe the course isnt for her and the teacher is trying to be nice...

gctest50

Digital Solitude wrote: »

Are you accusing me or my gf of fabricating it? I can assure its what was said to me,

It's not too clear from your OP,

Were you there too at the time it was said ?

Digital Solitude wrote: »

and I know other people have told her this before also

Digital Solitude

livedadream wrote: »

and thats great and this is going to sound wrong but i cant think of how else to phrase it so apologies in advance for sounding harsh, but of course the teacher is within her rights to question it.

the same as an employer would be if she started a job and within the first three weeks called in sick 4 times.

its a huge persentage of absence and for a course like in further ed colleges can mean alot of information is missed.

yes maybe the teacher went about it the wrong way but we dont know how your gf approached her or what was said on that said.

maybe the course isnt for her and the teacher is trying to be nice...

It's not really the same though, I don't pay my employer to let me go to work, my managers wage isn't paid by my money. I do appreciate your point of view, and I can accept the teacher isn't trying to hurt anyone's feeling and is trying to help out, but she's horribly misguided.

Apologies gctest50, I reacted a little harshly to you. I was not present when this happened, I was informed of it afterwards.

I'll try to wrangle some more info and grill her a bit tomorrow to see if anything in her story doesn't match, and I will let you guys know.

livedadream

Just because she is paying doesn't mean she can treat is any less like a serious commitment. The same way an employer thinks of the other person they should have hired who could or would attend I'm sure that teacher might be thinking or the student who didn't get a place on the course that your girlfriend is taking up and maybe can see she won't be able to last the course if she is suffering from anxiety within the first three weeks I can only imagine how tough it will be for her come exam or assignment time. Maybe she needs to sit down with the support services and split her credits or defer for a year until she is in a better state mentally.

The Wolverine

It most certainly wouldn't surprise me for someone to come out with "19 is too young to have depression"

I know a nurse that wouldn't go in a local young fellas funeral as he committed suicide from mental health issues as "she's doesn't believe in going to funeral of someone who did away with themselves"

Having gone to college and being in a meant to be qualified job does not make a person "educated" it makes they qualified in a particular area but they can and are often thick as pig **** in plenty of other areas. Hence this lectures comments as well as my example.

I assume year head means course head, complain to the head of the department this is BS. Your GF with letters outlining her condition may affect her ability for course work can allow them to defer exams and extend deadlines for her amongst other stuff.

twill

Your girlfriend doesn't have to make a fuss as such. However in her position I would a) register with the Disability Service; b) inform the lecturer (or the Disability office could do so - seek their advice) that I have a diagnosed disability/illness as defined by the Disability Act 2005.

Further, assuming there will be absences in the future, I would ask the office what the protocol may be for seeking health-related extensions, etc., and also they might be my advocate (I.e contacting the department etc.) if the lecturer continues to be difficult. Also, there might be more accommodations available if needed.

Unfortunately there is still a lot of ignorance about physical, mental and chronic illnesses. You'll get told everything from "Pull your socks up" to "It's in your mind" to "Why are you even doing this, you're not capable" (probably the same people who would despise you for being unemployed).

dublinman1990

I would say that from a learner's perspective that if a learner was to have an either a physical or mental illness of any kind & missing initial deadlines for assignments throughout the year; it's very likely that if your gf is in that position; her illness under college rules might say her absences can count as a exceptional circumstance.

It may not sound like much for your gf in all fairness. She still has to do the work throughout the year to pass her exams in college. If it is a exceptional circumstance your gf assignment's deadlines may be extended under specific rules of your gf's exam body where she does her course.

If she received a journal which includes the rules of her college for the academic year she might give it a read if she has it with her at any time.

Can you say what college your gf attends to do her course at all?

tracey turnblad

I work in 3rd level education. We have kids only registering this week in some courses meaning they have already missed out in two weeks. Some have been on holidays as well. We also don't keep records of attendance it's up to the student to attend...
My son was 8 when he first start showing signs of anxiety... Four years ( and blood sweat and tears) later he's improving... How dare the lecturer question a doctors note unless she's a qualified doctor

TOEJOE

The lecturer was wrong questioning you girlfriends illness.She is going through a difficult time.I would say the lecturer is unprofessional and should be called to task.Your friend should contact the relevant services in the college many colleges have very good backup help for people with problems. The only problem i see is your girlfriend may put a lot of pressure on herself missing classes and keeping up with the course material if she misses lectures.I wish her the best in her journey.

twill

Rephrasing incoherent post.

I think it's important for anyone with a condition that may affect their performance to be reasonably open with the college from the beginning so that they can react quickly if help, extensions or accommodations are needed. It's a difficult line to tread between acknowledging a difficulty and giving more information than you are comfortable with, especially if you have experience with discrimination or bad treatment. It's enough to treat the Disability office as go-betweens and administrators: if you are feeling vulnerable, it's even preferable.

It's possible the lecturer made a slip-up, who knows? But as long as you know of the college's obligations and the avenues through which these are enforced, such incidents can be solved quickly via established procedure rather than becoming something to be concerned about. However, it is important to get the paperwork and the legwork out of the way early on instead of later, so your attention isn't deflected from your work.

Digital Solitude

Thanks guys, a lot of great replies here, I do thank the ones looking critically too. All viewpoints are weighing up how she wants to proceed from here.

I don't think posting the college is a good idea, I was advised against posting anything that could identify the lecturer.

According to the college handbook, students should have missed 17 days from 20 before lecturers can make a fuss about it, I'll try to get a hold of it tomorrow and post a link/quote.

One of the things I am positive on in this situation is that she only missed lectures, there weren't any practical classes etc missed

Turns out there were practical classes missed.

She has informed the lecturer, who was also informed that she was taking medication for her anxiety just before this conversation happened

amacca

tracey turnblad wrote: »

We also don't keep records of attendance it's up to the student to attend...

Thats the way it was for me and I believe its absolutely the way it should be....running around after adults treating them like kids is ridiculous imo

whats happening to personal responsibility? its like some people are reaching the stage most people in my generation were at in their early twenties sometime in their thirties....or are they being treated like kids when they are in their twenties and consequently behaving like that.....

Anyway back on track, without knowing more details OP (and I respect the fact you can't or don't want to) its hard to give a definitive opinion but I think form what I've heard so far and taking at face value the lecturer is very much at fault/pig ignorant....what is it to her in any case? especially when provided with a doctors cert etc

But in any event chasing up absenteeism shouldn't be the lecturers responsibility at all imo - why not have a roll call (if were going to insist on turning college into school) submitted to a central records office and leave it to college authorities to chase up on as they see fit -less personlities and personal agendas muddying the waters there and just rules and regulations

ED E

Is this person what would be considered a course director? If so I'd play it very very carefully as they won't change and your gf will be stuck with them for 3(?) yrs.

icebergiceberg

tracey turnblad wrote: »

I work in 3rd level education. We have kids only registering this week in some courses meaning they have already missed out in two weeks. Some have been on holidays as well. We also don't keep records of attendance it's up to the student to attend...
My son was 8 when he first start showing signs of anxiety... Four years ( and blood sweat and tears) later he's improving... How dare the lecturer question a doctors note unless she's a qualified doctor

Yes and yes again. I well empathize with this. Lecturer needs some reeducation on doctors note (certificate?). My understanding is that a school principal doesn't have authority to question validity of same. That being the case, I doubt that a lecturer has. I would hate to think lecturer would not be admonished in some way. What could the Students' Union do, I wonder, in this regard?