Late Rent?

Bold Abdu

I hope someone can help.

A lease issues to a new tenant. Rent is due on 1st of each month with the usual grace period of 5 days or so.

After a few months the tenant notifies landlord by email that due to a change in the date of their salary the rent will not be paid until after the 1st Friday (salary date) of each month. The landlord replies by email that this is not ideal but agrees to the new arrangement. Obviously the 1st Friday can vary from 1st to 7th depending on the month.

Legally, is the 1st Friday of each month now the new rent payment date or could the landlord issue late rent letters if the rent starts landing on say 14th of each month?

Has the rent date per lease been amended by the email correspondence?

Thanks

davo10

Bold Abdu wrote: »

I hope someone can help.

A lease issues to a new tenant. Rent is due on 1st of each month with the usual grace period of 5 days or so.

After a few months the tenant notifies landlord by email that due to a change in the date of their salary the rent will not be paid until after the 1st Friday (salary date) of each month. The landlord replies by email that this is not ideal but agrees to the new arrangement. Obviously the 1st Friday can vary from 1st to 7th depending on the month.

Legally, is the 1st Friday of each month now the new rent payment date or could the landlord issue late rent letters if the rent starts landing on say 14th of each month?

Has the rent date per lease been amended by the email correspondence?

Thanks

Are you the landlord or the tenant?

If you are the LL you were mad to alter the date, it is up to the tenant to budget for payment of rent on the same date each month. Write to the tenant insisting that going forward the rent must be paid on the date specified in the contract. Rent should be paid by SO, not at the tenants whim, no grace period apart from when date of SO falls on a weekend.

Bold Abdu

I'm a friend of the landlord.

Weather mad or not, what I'm trying to ascertain is has the rental due date been changed by the email acceptance?

davo10

Bold Abdu wrote: »

I'm a friend of the landlord.

Weather mad or not, what I'm trying to ascertain is has the rental due date been changed by the email acceptance?

No. You can revert back to the signed contract. Your friend tried to accomadate the tenant but the 14th of the month is unacceptable if rent is due on first Friday.

handlemaster

I think there is trouble coming down the line with this tenant. Keep us posted

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

Keep us posted

Just a reminder folks- the forum is not a soap opera. If an OP (Original Poster- the instigator of a thread) decides to update a thread, it is entirely at their prerogative or discretion, and in no instance, should they feel compelled to do so, by prods/prompts by posters on the thread.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

No. You can revert back to the signed contract. Your friend tried to accomadate the tenant but the 14th of the month is unacceptable if rent is due on first Friday.

If there was consideration for the change the original contract is amended. It would be very difficult for the landlord to try and insist on the original date after the email exchange. The RTB will give the benefit of any doubt to the tenant.

davo10

4ensic15 wrote: »

If there was consideration for the change the original contract is amended. It would be very difficult for the landlord to try and insist on the original date after the email exchange. The RTB will give the benefit of any doubt to the tenant.

Are you going to start this again? Spouting crap about what the RTB will and won't do?

The lease says 1st on month, op said consideration was granted but now seems to be being abused by rent being paid later. Revert back to original, signed contract.

We all look forward to your well informed and always accurate opinions.

4ensic15

davo10 wrote: »

Are you going to start this again? Spouting crap about what the RTB will and won't do?

The lease says 1st on month, op said consideration was granted but now seems to be being abused by rent being paid later. Revert back to original, signed contract.

We all look forward to your well informed and always accurate opinions.

It is clear you don't understand the meaning of the word consideration in this context. It is a matter of construction of the contract and whether or not it was varied if it goes to the RTB. I haven't said what the RTB would do but in my experience they bend over backwards to find for the tenant. You can't amend a contract and then repudiate only insofar as the amendment is concerned.

Ms Doubtfire1

well, why not resolve it amicably? Ask the tenant to pay the 1 week extra for one month in advance and than just change the due date...? doesn't seem so difficult to me?

Claw Hammer

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

well, why not resolve it amicably? Ask the tenant to pay the 1 week extra for one month in advance and than just change the due date...? doesn't seem so difficult to me?

When you are dealing with a tenant who has already reneged on an agreement they entered into it can be difficult to get additional money from them. From their point of view it leaves them permanently short of a weeks rent until they vacate. The tenant clearly does not manage their finances well if they have to wait to be paid before they pay their rent. Suggesting an increased deposit would most likely make a bad situation worse.

Ms Doubtfire1

Claw Hammer wrote: »

When you are dealing with a tenant who has already reneged on an agreement they entered into it can be difficult to get additional money from them. From their point of view it leaves them permanently short of a weeks rent until they vacate. The tenant clearly does not manage their finances well if they have to wait to be paid before they pay their rent. Suggesting an increased deposit would most likely make a bad situation worse.

A) many people pay their rent when they get paid as rent is usually the biggest outgoing. nothing to do with managing your finances.
not suggesting an increased deposit.Just pay one time the rent for 5 weeks and than as normally every 4 weeks.it just pushes the due date out one week.

Ms Doubtfire1

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

A) many people pay their rent when they get paid as rent is usually the biggest outgoing. nothing to do with managing your finances.

It is very much about managing your finances. Ideally all big bills go out on the first few days of the month, I have always been paid on the last working day of the month so if at all possible I arrange for bills to come form my account on the 1st or as soon after as possible.

This doesn't always happen though as some bills arrive randomly like esb/gas and others depend when you sign up like a phone bill so you have to manage your finances to ensure sufficient funds in your account when needed.

The tenant in question just has to ensure he has the funds to pay rent on the 1st of the month even if he doesn't get paid until a few days after, this is done by keeping the amount required for rent in your account untouched, its still coming from the same months wages as if it was paid the day after pay day. Now I admit its much nicer to pay it just after pay day and have it out of the way but the awkward paying structure of where he works is more to blame than the LL as its makes most sense for rent to be paid on the first day of the month. Were I a LL i'd be insisting on rent payment on the 1st of the month as it would fit best with my own way of working finances.

El_Duderino 09

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote:

well, why not resolve it amicably? Ask the tenant to pay the 1 week extra for one month in advance and than just change the due date...? doesn't seem so difficult to me?

This seems like the logical solution. That's what we did with our recent tenancy agreement. We moved in on around the 20th of a month and we both get paid on the last working day of a month. Instead of bothering to budget each month, we proposed that we pay the rent from the 20th to the end of the month on top of the first month's rent and moved the rent due date to the 1st of each month. Simple for us as the rent goes out as soon as we get paid and we know exactly how much we have for the rest of the month.

Alternatively he LL could give notice that the due date will go back to the original date and give the tenant a fixed period to save the money needed. E.g. 2 months. Ultimately it's the tenants job to pay on time.

Bold Abdu

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

well, why not resolve it amicably? Ask the tenant to pay the 1 week extra for one month in advance and than just change the due date...? doesn't seem so difficult to me?

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Thanks Ms Doubtfire - I think this is a very good idea. Surprised I didn't think of it myself! I'll pass it on.

pilly

I entered into a similar arrangement with my landlord when I moved jobs and the pay date changed. I paid him an extra 15 days to move the to the date that suited my wages. This arrangement works well for both parties because the LL is more assured of the rent if it's due immediately after pay day.

Speedwell

When I got a new job, I did the same. I let the landlord know I was going to be paid on a certain date of the month, and he was happy to accept a full month plus the couple weeks, then month to month on the agreed-upon new date thereafter. No "abuse" and no "difficulty" involved at all.

I would think any responsible landlord would be overjoyed to be made the very first priority payment after the tenant got their paycheck, instead of having to depend on the tenant having the money at the end of the month. Seriously, avoid foot bullets, landlords.

Speedwell

Speedwell wrote: »

I would think any responsible landlord would be overjoyed to be made the very first priority payment after the tenant got their paycheck, instead of having to depend on the tenant having the money at the end of the month. Seriously, avoid foot bullets, landlords.

If its very out of sync with their mortgage repayment for example though then it could be a big inconvenience or even an impossibility. The LL then has to cover the mortgage from their pocket until the rent is paid along with their own mortgage etc. Its not the LLs responsibility if a person can't manage to leave the rent payment aside for a few days, they might want to learn to manage their money better if that's the case.

Speedwell

Emerald Little Mulch wrote: »

If its very out of sync with their mortgage repayment for example though then it could be a big inconvenience or even an impossibility. The LL then has to cover the mortgage from their pocket until the rent is paid along with their own mortgage etc. Its not the LLs responsibility if a person can't manage to leave the rent payment aside for a few days, they might want to learn to manage their money better if that's the case.

Excuse me, the landlord actually getting their money is their first priority, or should be. The landlord is not interested in teaching the tenant to exercise money management except insofar as that means they get paid. I don't know why you are expecting the tenant (the customer) to arrange their remaining finances at the landlord's convenience and absolving the landlord (the property owner) from practicing money management skills themselves. Unless, that is, you are just being contrarian.

El_Duderino 09

Kaliyah Hot Varsity wrote:

If its very out of sync with their mortgage repayment for example though then it could be a big inconvenience or even an impossibility. The LL then has to cover the mortgage from their pocket until the rent is paid along with their own mortgage etc. Its not the LLs responsibility if a person can't manage to leave the rent payment aside for a few days, they might want to learn to manage their money better if that's the case.

Isn't it more important for a LL and tenant to come to a mutually beneficial agreement, than for the LL to teach tenants about financial responsibility?

If it suits at all, I'd prefer to be paid on the day after the tenant gets paid.

pilly

Speedwell wrote: »

Excuse me, the landlord actually getting their money is their first priority, or should be. The landlord is not interested in teaching the tenant to exercise money management except insofar as that means they get paid. I don't know why you are expecting the tenant (the customer) to arrange their remaining finances at the landlord's convenience and absolving the landlord (the property owner) from practicing money management skills themselves. Unless, that is, you are just being contrarian.

It's simple in this case Speedwell, the agreement was to pay the rent on a certain date and the LL gave leeway. He didn't have to so it's not at the LL's convenience, it's for the tenants convenience.

Speedwell

pilly wrote: »

It's simple in this case Speedwell, the agreement was to pay the rent on a certain date and the LL gave leeway. He didn't have to so it's not at the LL's convenience, it's for the tenants convenience.

I imagine the landlord finds it convenient to get paid each month on an agreed-upon day.

Speedwell

Speedwell wrote: »

Excuse me, the landlord actually getting their money is their first priority, or should be. The landlord is not interested in teaching the tenant to exercise money management except insofar as that means they get paid. I don't know why you are expecting the tenant (the customer) to arrange their remaining finances at the landlord's convenience and absolving the landlord (the property owner) from practicing money management skills themselves. Unless, that is, you are just being contrarian.

There is a big difference for the LL in that they have to pay for their own mortgage also.

LL gets is monthly salary: x, then from x has to pay y (his mortgage) + z (the mortgage on the rental property).

Tenant gets paid x and if he has to wait two weeks to pay rent his rent payment z it just sits in his bank account waiting to be handed over. I'd be questioning if I wanted a person as a tenant going forward if they can't leave money alone in their account, what happens if they have some financial issues how will they manage to look after their finances and keep rent paid?

Speedwell

Emerald Little Mulch wrote: »

There is a big difference for the LL in that they have to pay for their own mortgage also.

LL gets is monthly salary: x, then from x has to pay y (his mortgage) + z (the mortgage on the rental property).

Tenant gets paid x and if he has to wait two weeks to pay rent his rent payment z it just sits in his bank account waiting to be handed over. I'd be questioning if I wanted a person as a tenant going forward if they can't leave money alone in their account, what happens if they have some financial issues how will they manage to look after their finances and keep rent paid?

OMG, you're so overreacting.

Speedwell

Speedwell wrote: »

OMG, you're so overreacting.

I am just making a case for why a LL might want rent on a certain day and how it might be an issue for some to have this day change.

Speedwell

Emerald Little Mulch wrote: »

I am just making a case for why a LL might want rent on a certain day and how it might be an issue for some to have this day change.

Yeah, I know. Sometimes the fact that you have to reach so far and so dramatically just to make a case is telling all by itself.

Speedwell

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, I know. Sometimes the fact that you have to reach so far and so dramatically just to make a case is telling all by itself.

Its not reaching in the slightest, its a very likely situation.

Mrs OBumble

Speedwell wrote: »

I would think any responsible landlord would be overjoyed to be made the very first priority payment after the tenant got their paycheck,

Well you would be wrong.

If a tenant's financial situation is so poor that they are relying on last months salary to pay this month's rent, then I would be thinking that they cannot afford the property.

Because what happens if they get sick or injured and cannot work for a month Or if they get put on a short term layoff or fired.

Even if they are eligible for welfare, it's unlikely to start being paid in time or to be enough to cover the rent.

Speedwell

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Well you would be wrong.

If a tenant's financial situation is so poor that they are relying on last months salary to pay this month's rent, then I would be thinking that they cannot afford the property.

Because what happens if they get sick or injured and cannot work for a month Or if they get put on a short term layoff or fired.

Even if they are eligible for welfare, it's unlikely to start being paid in time or to be enough to cover the rent.

Right, you want to rent only to wealthy tenants, that's realistic.

Claw Hammer

Speedwell wrote: »

Right, you want to rent only to wealthy tenants, that's realistic.

A person who keps more than a montsh rent on hand is wealthy? What would you call someone with the equivalent of 6 months rent in the bank? Super rich? I'm in the wrong job.

Speedwell

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A person who keps more than a montsh rent on hand is wealthy? What would you call someone with the equivalent of 6 months rent in the bank? Super rich? I'm in the wrong job.

OK, seriously, what proportion of renters in Ireland live paycheck to paycheck? Or depend on benefits of some kind?